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Khorne posted:"Wow I dropped $1200 on this system and my fps is... identical" - me buying an AMD system in 2018 to replace my 2012 intel system. I'm unironically going to do this because I'd like to have the processing power to encode h264 and stream at the same time. Doesn't seem like a bad deal to me. I'd also like to have the ability to use NVME storage etc. I don't know what chip you use specifically but this 3770K was more than enough for games when I bought it, I bought an i7 while everyone told me to buy an i5 because I wanted to be a streamer and software encode while I play, and the HT is part of the reason it's so weirdly relevant now that games can take full use of it, though that means I can't software encode in the background anymore. There's nothing wrong with buying more cores now, and then going to more cores/more mhz later at the end of AM4. The 2017 boards will probably not be upgraded to work with 2019, but 2018's boards probably will, and 2020 is going to be a socket shift for PCIE4 and DDR5.
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Apr 2, 2018 06:13
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Craptacular! posted:There's nothing wrong with buying more cores now, and then going to more cores/more mhz later at the end of AM4. The 2017 boards will probably not be upgraded to work with 2019, but 2018's boards probably will, and 2020 is going to be a socket shift for PCIE4 and DDR5. I got a TR 1950 and 64gb of B-die ECC ram specifically because I can trivially upgrade to the 3950XXtreme in 3 years at the tail end of the AM4/Socket whatever the gently caress that runs 32 cores at 5ghz because 7nm is a thing that is now old hat in the year of our lord 2020. It's already hot poo poo for anything virtualization or simulation based, and can only get better as the architecture gets refined, and the processes march on toward the non-silicon upset.
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Apr 2, 2018 07:34
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I'm planning on getting Zen+ - still can't figure out which of 27/2800(+) are the way to go - because the whole Spectre/Meltdown thing soured me on Intel. Also, forward compatibility is lot more likely, not that it's guaranteed to work with Zen2 or anything, but with Intel, I'd probably have to wait another 5-10 years to upgrade to another chipset anyway.
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Apr 2, 2018 11:53
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The lower latency of zen+ should greatly help with videogames fps, wait for gaming benchmarks.
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Apr 2, 2018 12:48
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Khorne posted:I wish MS weren't lazy assholes who have left win8/win10 busted for gaming.  10 works fine for me? I even have a high-DPI, high-refresh monitor and an older very-much-neither-of-those-things monitor next to it. Granted, I don't see the point of playing a game windowed if you have a second monitor, but live your best life, I guess.
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Apr 2, 2018 15:11
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ufarn posted:I'm planning on getting Zen+ - still can't figure out which of 27/2800(+) are the way to go - because the whole Spectre/Meltdown thing soured me on Intel. Curious, what about that soured you on Intel
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Apr 2, 2018 19:15
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ufarn posted:I'm planning on getting Zen+ - still can't figure out which of 27/2800(+) are the way to go - because the whole Spectre/Meltdown thing soured me on Intel. I could be wrong but I thought AMD had the same problem with the same downgrade in performance. Or at least the patches affected their chips similarly?
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Apr 2, 2018 19:18
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ufarn posted:I'm planning on getting Zen+ - still can't figure out which of 27/2800(+) are the way to go - because the whole Spectre/Meltdown thing soured me on Intel. There is no 2800. Also an x470 board will work with Zen2.
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Apr 2, 2018 19:18
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:I got a TR 1950 and 64gb of B-die ECC ram specifically because I can trivially upgrade to the 3950XXtreme in 3 years at the tail end of the AM4/Socket whatever the gently caress that runs 32 cores at 5ghz because 7nm is a thing that is now old hat in the year of our lord 2020. It's already hot poo poo for anything virtualization or simulation based, and can only get better as the architecture gets refined, and the processes march on toward the non-silicon upset. Huh, I didn't realize 64gb of B-die ECC even existed. Where/what/how can i get some?
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Apr 2, 2018 19:22
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Munkeymon posted:
Desktop composition is very bad and it almost certainly does affect you.
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Apr 2, 2018 19:49
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K8.0 posted:Desktop composition is very bad and it almost certainly does affect you. Please provide a source for desktop compositing in tyool 2018 being "very bad"
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Apr 2, 2018 20:34
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With some (older) games I'd have trouble adjusting brightness/alpha in windowed mode, otherwise Microsofts triple buffer vsync seems so nice I wish they could enforce it in fullscreen, too 
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Apr 2, 2018 20:48
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redeyes posted:Huh, I didn't realize 64gb of B-die ECC even existed. Where/what/how can i get some? Buy 4 sticks of this stuff: Samsung branded memory, Part # M391A2k43BB1-CRC. It's basically OEM brand memory, so it takes a bit of hunting to find it, and it's not cheap when you do, each stick cost me ~$250 when I bought it. If you hunt around you can find other sticks with the same dies in them, but unbuffered ECC is hard to find. ECC also lets you overclock the memory subsystem really easily, since it actually gives you feedback on how close to the ragged edge you're pushing it, via making GBS threads a ton of errors into your syslog once you push it hard enough to start getting single bit errors. You can pretty consistently get those 2400 CL17 sticks to 2800-2933 16-16-16-36-1T, depending on phase of the moon, motherboard, and all the usual factors.
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Apr 2, 2018 22:05
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redeyes posted:I could be wrong but I thought AMD had the same problem with the same downgrade in performance. Or at least the patches affected their chips similarly? You're most definitely misinformed. AMD was effected by Spectre variant 2, which required a minor patch that didn't effect performance and is the hardest vulnerability to do anything with. Intel was effected by all three variants of Spectre and Meltdown.
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Apr 2, 2018 22:11
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K8.0 posted:Desktop composition is very bad and it almost certainly does affect you. Ah yes, that thing that was introduced in Windows 10 and totally not 9 years earlier in Vista.
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Apr 2, 2018 23:10
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fishmech posted:Ah yes, that thing that was introduced in Windows 10 and totally not 9 years earlier in Vista. I don't think it forced vsync on all windowed applications back then, did it?
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Apr 3, 2018 05:50
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Arzachel posted:I don't think it forced vsync on all windowed applications back then, did it? DWM has provided vsync in all windowed applications since introduction.
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Apr 3, 2018 05:54
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fishmech posted:DWM has provided vsync in all windowed applications since introduction.
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Apr 3, 2018 16:10
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Arzachel posted:I don't think it forced vsync on all windowed applications back then, did it? Oh, I see. That's an understandable design decision on the part of the Windows team - especially since most Windows installs are on laptops nowadays. Maybe take the money you guys insist on not spending on the high-factory-clocked chips and get a cheap second monitor so you can give one to your games then  yes, I'm aware that's not feasible for everyonee: this might partially be the Windows composition manager's fault?  below: as rendered when I opened the file; above: after highlighting and clearing the highlightOnly ever see this on VS and SMS, which is based on VS, so maybe they do something weird in their text renderer to keep it from shittiing itself when displaying huge files Munkeymon fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Apr 3, 2018 |
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Apr 3, 2018 17:14
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:Buy 4 sticks of this stuff: Samsung branded memory, Part # M391A2k43BB1-CRC. It's basically OEM brand memory, so it takes a bit of hunting to find it, and it's not cheap when you do, each stick cost me ~$250 when I bought it. If you hunt around you can find other sticks with the same dies in them, but unbuffered ECC is hard to find. Far out man. Thank you very much! quote:You're most definitely misinformed. AMD was effected by Spectre variant 2, which required a minor patch that didn't effect performance and is the hardest vulnerability to do anything with. Intel was effected by all three variants of Spectre and Meltdown. Huh, well thats good then. AMD might be in my future.
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Apr 3, 2018 17:42
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Munkeymon posted:Maybe take the money you guys insist on not spending on the high-factory-clocked chips and get a cheap second monitor so you can give one to your games then In 7 you just disable aero and then play in windowed fullscreen and can freely play around on your other monitors. You can have videos on, you can play multiple games at once, it doesn't matter. If I only had 1 monitor it wouldn't even matter. I could just play fullscreened because tabbing into other stuff will mess up me being able to see and interact with the game anyway. It's such an anti-feature that the trend went from everyone playing windowed fullscreen and it being the future to everyone being all "you gotta play in fullscreen or you [something bad]". Khorne fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Apr 3, 2018 |
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Apr 3, 2018 19:16
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With the consent and recommendation of a former member of the core Windows graphics team, I run with full-screen windowed on my main monitor usually >100fps and browsers/Discord/etc on my secondary at up to 144. Windows 10 has fast paths for even non-exclusive full screen, so it doesn’t cost as much as it did in Vista or 7. It doesn’t even need to composite in most cases, IIRC. My games perform very well, even with video on the other display. (I also enable windowed gsync.) Don’t span client rects across displays or anything dumb like that, of course.
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Apr 3, 2018 20:08
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I thought like everyone played everything fullscreen windowed for years now, what's the alleged "something bad" for not playing full fullscreen?
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Apr 3, 2018 21:20
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Subjunctive posted:With the consent and recommendation of a former member of the core Windows graphics team, I run with full-screen windowed on my main monitor usually >100fps and browsers/Discord/etc on my secondary at up to 144. Windows 10 has fast paths for even non-exclusive full screen, so it doesn’t cost as much as it did in Vista or 7. It doesn’t even need to composite in most cases, IIRC. My games perform very well, even with video on the other display. (I also enable windowed gsync.) That is kind of interesting. So MS likes full-screen windowed mode over others. Makes sense to me since you don't need to change video modes which can lead to all kind of odd crap happening.
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Apr 3, 2018 21:38
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Khorne posted:That's the entire problem. If you have things going on your second monitor it messes up the primary. If you play in full screen then when you tab out the game minimizes on your primary and you have to deal with tabbing back in and can't see the game while doing stuff on your secondary. Civ VI works that way if I run it in DX12 mode. It also crashes a lot, but I didn't run it long in DX11(?) mode to compare. Guess I should play around with that and see what's up... if I have time and think to.
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Apr 3, 2018 22:06
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Yeah, running things in windowed fullscreen is perfectly fine in Windows 10. You’re not going to get enforced vsync or have performance problems with the desktop being up on the other screen. That’s just complete bullshit.
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Apr 3, 2018 23:50
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Khorne posted:In 7 you just disable aero and then play in windowed fullscreen and can freely play around on your other monitors. You can have videos on, you can play multiple games at once, it doesn't matter.
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Apr 4, 2018 00:32
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Combat Pretzel posted:Matter of fact, in Windows 10, games requesting fullscreen are still internally windowed, if they run at the same resolution as the desktop on that monitor. That's not true because otherwise exclusive fullscreen games would have diagonal screen tearing too like windowed games have on Optimus systems.
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Apr 4, 2018 00:37
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Sininu posted:That's not true because otherwise exclusive fullscreen games would have diagonal screen tearing too like windowed games have on Optimus systems. Many drivers have different paths for windows that exactly match a display, so I'm not certain that you're interpreting that correctly.
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Apr 4, 2018 00:47
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Arivia posted:Yeah, running things in windowed fullscreen is perfectly fine in Windows 10. You’re not going to get enforced vsync or have performance problems with the desktop being up on the other screen. That’s just complete bullshit. It really depends on the game more than Windows. Munkeymon posted:
Are you running multi monitor? Is one or more of your monitors Hi-DPi? Are you using >100% font rendering? Are you running different font scaling across 2+ monitors? Stanley Pain fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Apr 4, 2018 |
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Apr 4, 2018 14:42
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Stanley Pain posted:Are you running multi monitor? Is one or more of your monitors Hi-DPi? Are you using >100% font rendering? Are you running different font scaling across 2+ monitors? Gosh how did you guess all of those?! Yeah, at work they gave me a 24 inch 1080 secondary monitor to go with a high-DPI laptop. At home I have a high-DPI main monitor and an old 1200x1600 secondary. The odd thing, to me, is it only happens with Visual Studio and derivatives. Like, what zany-assed thing are they doing that nobody else seems to be doing? Nothing else fuckes up like that, that I've found, at least.
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Apr 4, 2018 15:09
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Munkeymon posted:Gosh how did you guess all of those?! Yeah, at work they gave me a 24 inch 1080 secondary monitor to go with a high-DPI laptop. At home I have a high-DPI main monitor and an old 1200x1600 secondary. Microsoft is horrible when it comes to their UI elements following their own design principles. Event viewer, Taskmanager and a bunch of other apps within Windows also end up looking like crap. The latest build of Windows 10 fixes a lot of these (but if you plug/unplug monitors without logging out you still get odd results). If you're on Win 7/8 
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Apr 4, 2018 16:10
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Stanley Pain posted:Microsoft is horrible when it comes to their UI elements following their own design principles. Event viewer, Taskmanager and a bunch of other apps within Windows also end up looking like crap. Oh plenty of stuff looks like rear end when it's scaled on the high-DPI - VS is just the only thing that gets font rendering straight up wrong on the normal-DPI monitor. I've been confused when scrolling through source code that looked invalid because it dropped the lower line from an equals sign, for instance, but then you highlight it and it's rendered correctly. Other programs, that I'm guessing rely on older APIs, just look like a blur effect has been applied consistently everywhere.
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Apr 4, 2018 16:26
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The exodus has begun! Bonus pts if you get that reference. (not Prince)
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Apr 5, 2018 19:28
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Seamonster posted:The exodus has begun! I'd pay 20 more to have a better bin and not bother with manual overclocking: https://slickdeals.net/f/11448399-amd-ryzen-7-1700x-8-core-3-4-ghz-desktop-processor-240-free-s-h (1700X for 240$ free s/h on newegg) A higher clocking 2600X will probably be the better choice for general use at that price range, including AAA gaming. sauer kraut fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Apr 5, 2018 |
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Apr 5, 2018 22:14
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I dunno, I'd take 8 cores over 4 for general computing any day. Gaming though, nope.
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Apr 5, 2018 23:53
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1700X or 2700. Hmmm... The former's cooler requirement makes it about as much as the latter, so...
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Apr 5, 2018 23:57
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redeyes posted:I dunno, I'd take 8 cores over 4 for general computing any day. Gaming though, nope. Khorne fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Apr 6, 2018 |
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Apr 6, 2018 00:00
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Sandy/Ivy owners (myself included) are spoiled rotten and we may have to think back to the late 90s and early 2000s when a CPU lasted you two years maximum instead of demanding a repeat. The gap between the 8700K and Ryzen as is will be smaller under most people's preferred conditions. They accentuate CPU bottlenecking by running games at the lowest possible detail. Unless you're one of those fuckers playing games that give strategic advantages by making them look like a PS1 title (e.g Battle Royale fans), you won't have to worry too much because nobody buys Assassins Creed and then plays it at settings that make Egypt look like the desert level from Mario 64.
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Apr 6, 2018 00:06
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And the deal is dead! So, somewhere under eight hours to sell out?
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Apr 6, 2018 02:19
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