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Zore posted:I mean, it would still be copyright infringement even if Harmony Gold loses the suit because they're just ripped right out of Macross. Those designs are never coming back and really shouldn't, since, you know, they were literally just ripped out of an anime and slapped in the book. The OG designs were actually licensed. They weren't stolen from anime, they were used with permission, at least for the tabletop game.
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Apr 5, 2018 20:59
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Galaga Galaxian posted:The original Macross designs will never be used again even if things are favorably decided. But they won't have to worry (as much) about using their new redesigns. Bummer. Zore posted:I mean, it would still be copyright infringement even if Harmony Gold loses the suit because they're just ripped right out of Macross. Those designs are never coming back and really shouldn't, since, you know, they were literally just ripped out of an anime and slapped in the book. They were paid for though...and they look great. They look like what those old mechs were supposed to be, which was ancient tech from a bygone era that was more elegant and smoother than the stuff that came later. Cool aesthetic.
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Apr 5, 2018 21:19
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John Charity Spring posted:I've been thinking a bit about the way the salvage and repair system works in-game, and what isildur (I believe it was isildur anyway?) previously said about wanting to make the post-release Ironman option perma-destroy your own mechs when they have their centre torso destroyed rather than letting you repair them up without much difficulty. It remains to be seen in actual experience, but having watched the Cohh stream with his repeatedly destroyed and rebuilt Blackjack at little more cost to him than repair time and some cash, I did wonder if it would be worth having customisable difficulty options for this kind of thing. Kind of like all the secondary difficulty options in Crusader Kings 2 where you can decide how deadly epidemics will be, or XCOM's custom difficulty settings. The way I was envisaging it is that maybe having one of your mechs cored isn't a total destruction of it, but gives you a guaranteed salvage part just like a cored enemy mech (one that doesn't count towards the contract salvage). That would make it more punishing to lose a mech but you could still rebuild it (at much greater cost) further down the line. Maybe even make it give 2 of 3 salvage parts so you have a head start on cobbling together your own wrecked mechs rather than the enemy's. Perhaps all four levels - just needs repairs, 2/3 parts, 1/3 parts, full destruction - could go each be part of the custom difficulty. Idk, maybe all of this has been considered already. But personally I'd enjoy experimenting with these sorts of things at some point down the line, just like I did with stuff like Training Roulette in XCOM. This sort of thing is what they're considering AFAIK, iron man with various settings as toggles. Zaodai posted:The OG designs were actually licensed. They weren't stolen from anime, they were used with permission, at least for the tabletop game. Licensed from someone who turned out to not have proper sublicensing rights, I believe was the source of the issue?
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Apr 5, 2018 21:20
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Bummer. They paid someone who didn't own the rights for them.
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Apr 5, 2018 21:22
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If I recall correctly, they DID pay the right person. It's just that their licenses only covered a certain scope (the tabletop game) and thus not the novels and video games, etc. HG's contention is then that they held exclusive license for everything and should get cash for anything remotely even related, because they also held a license for the same anime mechs but for non-tabletop stuff.
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Apr 5, 2018 21:24
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Galaga Galaxian posted:This sort of thing is what they're considering AFAIK, iron man with various settings as toggles. More like the people they licensed it from licensed it to HG with distribution rights to the US then relicensed individual designs to FASA which created a conflict. From my understanding FASA could still use the designs provided they didn’t mind being litigated to death.
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Apr 5, 2018 21:25
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:They were paid for though...and they look great. They look like what those old mechs were supposed to be, which was ancient tech from a bygone era that was more elegant and smoother than the stuff that came later. Cool aesthetic. Have you seen the new designs from MWO? They're pretty nice looking, and more importantly, fit the aesthetic of everything else in the game (the old Macross designs would clash quite a bit).    (last one has tons of guns cause thats a dev model showing all(most?) of the hardpoints being filled)
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Apr 5, 2018 21:30
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Oh hey I hadn't seen that and it's actually pretty good. Wish the Marauder's top autocannon was dead center and the Warhammer's arms weren't quite as stubby but hey, overall very decent. They do an Archer knock off yet?
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Apr 5, 2018 21:32
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Oh hey I hadn't seen that and it's actually pretty good. Wish the Marauder's top autocannon was dead center and the Warhammer's arms weren't quite as stubby but hey, overall very decent. They do an Archer knock off yet? Yes. In general I like the MWO designs. They're big and they're blocky and future cyber-punk-y.
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Apr 5, 2018 21:38
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The MAD's autocannon is in the side torso though.  Archer:  ALL THE MISSILES (seriously, bicep LRM-5s, lol) 
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Apr 5, 2018 21:39
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I really wish the original owners of Macross and the other animes would just drop a skyscraper on Harmony Gold once and for all. I want to use my dang Warhammers goddamnit. I guess we can at least use Cataphracts to kinda have a Warhammer-esque mech in maybe? Tell me they're putting the Cataphract in.
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Apr 5, 2018 21:43
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Dreadwroth posted:I really wish the original owners of Macross and the other animes would just drop a skyscraper on Harmony Gold once and for all. I want to use my dang Warhammers goddamnit. I guess we can at least use Cataphracts to kinda have a Warhammer-esque mech in maybe? Yep E: plus if it does well enough for dlc/sequels, I imagine every robot that's in mwo could end up in there
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Apr 5, 2018 21:49
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Dreadwroth posted:I really wish the original owners of Macross and the other animes would just drop a skyscraper on Harmony Gold once and for all. I want to use my dang Warhammers goddamnit. I guess we can at least use Cataphracts to kinda have a Warhammer-esque mech in maybe? Cataphract is in, as is the Catapult-K2 for your "Heavy mech with twin PPCs" needs. 
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Apr 5, 2018 21:49
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Zaodai posted:Yes.
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Apr 5, 2018 21:51
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If PGI did one thing right it's the mech designs. They look pretty great.
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Apr 5, 2018 21:52
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Note that this game is pretty moddable and the MWO models are kind of out there. HG or no I’d be shocked if someone didn’t add the marauder war hammer Phoenix hawk etc via a mod before too long.
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Apr 5, 2018 21:55
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Axetrain posted:If PGI did one thing right it's the mech designs. They look pretty great. I think Flying Debris deserves most of the credit for that, definitely more than  in any case. I wonder if he still post of these forums.
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Apr 5, 2018 22:01
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Cyrano4747 posted:Note that this game is pretty moddable and the MWO models are kind of out there. HG or no I’d be shocked if someone didn’t add the marauder war hammer Phoenix hawk etc via a mod before too long. People had already kind of cludged the Warhammer and Rifleman (with Jagermech legs) into the beta. Its only a matter of time, really. Speaking of Rifleman, here is what the MWO Version looks like, since I forgot that one too:  (again, excess amount of weapons as this is a texture sample model) Similarly, but unrelated, I've had this idea of a "Sandbox Mode" worm its way into my head lately where the plot is ripped out completely and the Argo is replaced with a bog-standard Union Dropship with a new upgrade tree, and the entire Aurigan Reach unlocked at the start to go do random contracts in. Dunno if its possible and I barely know poo poo about modding, but I might look into it at least a bit. The main issue would be the sandbox start and model swapping the Leopard (or Argo?) with a Union.
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Apr 5, 2018 22:08
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For all PGI's faults their asset team knows how to make robbits. Shame about the rest of them really.
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Apr 5, 2018 22:22
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It'd be pretty delightful if HBS' Battletech winds up pulling a reversal of Mechwarrior 2- instead of removing the unseen in the sequel/expansion for copyright reasons, they get added in because now the rights issue is finally loving settled. Cyrano4747 posted:Note that this game is pretty moddable and the MWO models are kind of out there. HG or no I’d be shocked if someone didn’t add the marauder war hammer Phoenix hawk etc via a mod before too long. I think adding the models and the mechs would be fine and easy, but as always, the issue is making sure they're integrated seamlessly into the game. Making sure that random AI assignments weight them properly, or that enemy AIs who are part of pre-set missions are balanced around having these mechs around. Not to mention making sure they have custom animations where they're needed. It'd also take a brave modder, since presumably HG would be willing to pursue that person in court.
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Apr 5, 2018 22:24
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Possible Final Mech list based on the stream today: Bit surprised only two Hunchback variants made it in. Also, I feel like the game desperately needs more lights, so hopefully the Flea and Javelin finds their way in at some point. Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Apr 5, 2018 |
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Apr 5, 2018 22:26
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Unrelated to the giant death machine beauty pageant, but something that seems to get talked about a lot in discussions on different mech configurations is 'sandpapering' and 'crit seeking'. In pratical terms, just how much difference is there between blasting someone with a load of missiles vs. a single AC20 in terms of actually reducing enemy mechs' combat effectiveness? Since the game automatically makes you shoot your heaviest weapon first, is it actually the case that you're best served with a mixed loadout so that you can penetrate and start getting crit rolls in the same turn, or is this something which just doesn't happen often enough to be worth taking into consideration?
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Apr 5, 2018 22:29
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Possible Final Mech list based on the stream today: I'll be the one player in a Banshee 3E
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Apr 5, 2018 22:38
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Bit surprised only two Hunchback variants made it in. Also, I feel like the game desperately needs more lights, so hopefully the Flea and Javelin finds their way in at some point. Most mechs only get a single variant or two though, I'm guessing that it was an intentional choice to keep variant numbers down so that it wouldn't be as hard for the player to know what an enemy mech is going to have just looking at it. Then, presumably, the variants are also set up with hardpoints so if the player reaaaaallly wants a HBK-4H they can turn their 4G into one. Light roster looks a bit thin to me as well though, especially since traditionally a lot of your enemy lances are going to have lights. It'd be nice to see the player able to get a hold of one of the 3024 prototype Ravens, for example, perhaps via salvage.
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Apr 5, 2018 22:38
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Possible Final Mech list based on the stream today: If that is the final list, then clearly not enough of them have support hardpoints from what we've seen from streams. 
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Apr 5, 2018 22:41
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The Raven is post-launch because they need to figure out how ECM is going to work. Also, that's plenty of lights. There isn't a whole lot of diversity in "goes fast, spots for you, maybe has a gun or two".
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Apr 5, 2018 22:42
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Yeah, that seems fine for lights, there was never going to be as much variety in how lights as functioned there would be in heavies and assaults, so not having every chassis available is less of an issue. Side note, I really, really like that PGI Marauder.
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Apr 5, 2018 22:45
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Actually my #1 "I want this" thing mechwise is a 40tonner that isn't the massive over-engined Cicada. Gimmie a Whitworth, or a Clint, or a Vulcan or a Hermes II. Preferably the first two.
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Apr 5, 2018 22:50
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what effect do the different chassis have? How do I start understanding this game.
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Apr 5, 2018 22:55
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Impermanent posted:what effect do the different chassis have? How do I start understanding this game. Different combinations of speed, internal structure and max armour, and potential weapons layouts.
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Apr 5, 2018 23:09
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It looks like 9/9/10/7 unique Chassis if we discount variants which is a pretty solid number imo
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Apr 5, 2018 23:14
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ditty bout my clitty posted:In the world of litigation, this is called being donkey kong’d. Ha it even has a cute denouement: quote:Lincoln hired John Kirby to represent Nintendo in court. Kirby had won other big cases for the likes of PepsiCo., General Foods, and Warner-Lambert.
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Apr 5, 2018 23:22
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Impermanent posted:what effect do the different chassis have? How do I start understanding this game. Basically each stock mech is designed to fulfill a specific role or combination of roles (and does so to varying degrees of success). The game is quite friendly to the player in this regard since it'll always tell you what a mech's basic role is the first time you acquire one, and you can also check the description for their stock combat role at any time too. So it'll say things like "Sniper/Fire Support" or "Close-Range Brawler", that kind of thing, that help you figure out what the general role of the mech is. I think it's easier to get to grips with than it might appear, especially in the campaign since you start out with a small number of distinct mechs and gradually encounter more as you go on. John Charity Spring fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Apr 5, 2018 |
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Apr 5, 2018 23:22
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Bit surprised only two Hunchback variants made it in. Also, I feel like the game desperately needs more lights, so hopefully the Flea and Javelin finds their way in at some point. Given lights are the most likely to go from zero to hosed, a smaller pool of lights could be beneficial in the long and short term. As they are bound to be the ones with most need to replace sudden losses via salvage in a single turn gone wrong. So I figure more than any other mech type, diluting the light salvage pool would probably be felt the most. More heavy mechs built from spare parts is a luxury. More light mechs built from spare parts is preparing for the inevitable 
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Apr 5, 2018 23:26
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They're also the mechs we are going to be facing the most of though, so I can definitely see why people would want more to add variety.
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Apr 5, 2018 23:46
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Well MWO has the Javelin, Assassin and Phoenix Hawk. While 2 of those are technically Mediums, I think that'd be perfect to round out the low end of the weight scale.
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Apr 5, 2018 23:47
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RabidWeasel posted:Unrelated to the giant death machine beauty pageant, but something that seems to get talked about a lot in discussions on different mech configurations is 'sandpapering' and 'crit seeking'. In pratical terms, just how much difference is there between blasting someone with a load of missiles vs. a single AC20 in terms of actually reducing enemy mechs' combat effectiveness? Since the game automatically makes you shoot your heaviest weapon first, is it actually the case that you're best served with a mixed loadout so that you can penetrate and start getting crit rolls in the same turn, or is this something which just doesn't happen often enough to be worth taking into consideration? A single AC/20 will strip most armor from any location. Two AC/20s hits is all but guaranteed to blow off limbs or torsos. A bunch of LRMs will take armor off everywhere. If you want to reduce combat effectiveness, take high damage-per-hit weapons to start blowing off chunks of metal. This is why high-damage weapons (AC/20, PPC, Gauss Rifle, etc) are viable compared to 'efficient' weapons like the medium laser. One fuckhueg 20-ton autocannon will remove whatever it hits, while twenty 1-ton medium lasers will just sprinkle their bits of damage all over.
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Apr 5, 2018 23:49
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John Charity Spring posted:Basically each stock mech is designed to fulfill a specific role or combination of roles (and does so to varying degrees of success). The game is quite friendly to the player in this regard since it'll always tell you what a mech's basic role is the first time you acquire one, and you can also check the description for their stock combat role at any time too. So it'll say things like "Sniper/Fire Support" or "Close-Range Brawler", that kind of thing, that help you figure out what the general role of the mech is. I think it's easier to get to grips with than it might appear, especially in the campaign since you start out with a small number of distinct mechs and gradually encounter more as you go on. That said, there is nothing stopping you from completely refitting a mech for another role if the hardpoints allow it. For example, you could take the Centurion, a mech meant mostly for closer range fighting, and refit it with a lighter longer range cannon and more LRMs to turn it into more of a skirmisher/support unit instead of an up front brawler.
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Apr 5, 2018 23:49
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Or take the Shadowhawk, for example. The default loadout is a bit scatterbrained, with a mid-range autocannon, short range missiles, long range missiles, and a laser. On paper it's a generalist, but in practice it means that half its weapons are going to be kinda bad at any given time. So what you can do is switch out the missiles to either short or long range to focus the loadout.
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Apr 5, 2018 23:52
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Q_res posted:Well MWO has the Javelin, Assassin and Phoenix Hawk. While 2 of those are technically Mediums, I think that'd be perfect to round out the low end of the weight scale. And the Flea! Don't forget the adorable little Flea! 
Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Apr 6, 2018 |
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Apr 5, 2018 23:53
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