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sassassin posted:He was a monster whose plan for world peace was as dumb as it was horrifying. I don’t believe that Rax specified what direction the step was in.
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Apr 6, 2018 00:03
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Raxivace posted:Lol just loving lol if you don't think Treize represented some new evolutionary step of humanity. newtypes, innovators, x-rounders renaissance men
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Apr 6, 2018 00:04
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Darth Walrus posted:I don’t believe that Rax specified what direction the step was in. Gundam Wing doesn't lack for monsters with insane plans for world peace. Operation Meteor had been in the works for 20 years.
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Apr 6, 2018 00:11
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the evolutionary step was towards fashion
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Apr 6, 2018 00:36
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sassassin posted:One of the many reasons Gundam Wing is the best. Quatre was almost literally a newtype, right down to ranting about weird space metaphors("Heart of Space" as opposed to "Souls weighed down by gravity").
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Apr 6, 2018 01:30
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Yeah but ultimately no one in Wing demonstrates super human cognition or predictive abilities outside of using the Zero System which is just calculating probabilities not really divining the future with superior extra human prowess. Wing is the Gundam that isn't tied down by super people. Treize is not talking about physical evolution, he's def more concerned with value evolution and the rejection of war by having one so bad we won't want it again (guess what that never works and is the most unrealistic part of the show's plot, humanity always forgets and does it again).
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Apr 6, 2018 01:44
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Heero is kind of ridiculous, but not in a space psychic way. Zechs also manages to not have Tallgeese's acceleration turn him into paste.
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Apr 6, 2018 01:46
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Is there any particular reason why (western at least) gundam fans seem to universally hate the newtype deal, and it being so prevalent despite that?
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Apr 6, 2018 01:51
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Takin this particular forum’s predominant stances as indicative of anything outside of it is not a good idea. I think newtypes are neat.
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Apr 6, 2018 01:53
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Motto posted:Is there any particular reason why (western at least) gundam fans seem to universally hate the newtype deal, and it being so prevalent despite that? A major part of it is that the Newtype stuff is often built into the philosophical and spiritual underthemes of the series while a not-insignificant segment of the fandom is more interested in the mecha battle or soldier aspects. It's similar to how with Macross fandom you have a segment who loving hates the music aspect and just want sweetass Valkyries shooting poo poo.
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Apr 6, 2018 01:54
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Motto posted:Is there any particular reason why (western at least) gundam fans seem to universally hate the newtype deal, and it being so prevalent despite that? Western fans generally seem to like things to be very gritty and down to earth(see all the love of 08th MS Team) and newtypes are very much not that, even though they're integral to the original philosophy of the UC franchise. There's also a gradient. A lot of people are fine with Newtype stuff but don't like it when things get too magical(I've met people who hate the Axis Shock, for example).
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Apr 6, 2018 02:05
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Rosemia hate is fine, axis shock hate is a fundamental misunderstanding of the setting.
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Apr 6, 2018 02:11
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Is Domon a G Gundam newtype?
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Apr 6, 2018 02:29
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I like the concept of newtypes but it can get a bit frustrating when it feels like everyone is newtype and they all psychically link up to form the most depressing version a party line.
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Apr 6, 2018 02:35
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Say what you will about the sidestories and OVAs and manga, it's pretty impressive restraint that all the writers who've come afterwards have let Axis Shock stand as the only time when Newtype powers actually physically moved an object.
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Apr 6, 2018 02:42
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Guy Goodbody posted:Say what you will about the sidestories and OVAs and manga, it's pretty impressive restraint that all the writers who've come afterwards have let Axis Shock stand as the only time when Newtype powers actually physically moved an object. You mean apart from every single time a funnel/bit/whatever is used?
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Apr 6, 2018 02:43
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Droyer posted:You mean apart from every single time a funnel/bit/whatever is used? Those have thrusters. They're directed by a Newtype, but they're physically moved by the thrusters
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Apr 6, 2018 02:45
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Guy Goodbody posted:Those have thrusters. They're directed by a Newtype, but they're physically moved by the thrusters The FA Unicorn moves 3 shields around like funnels and they don't have any thrusters.
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Apr 6, 2018 02:46
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Droyer posted:The FA Unicorn moves 3 shields around like funnels and they don't have any thrusters. You're right, those don't have thrusters. but the little side bits that come out in Destroy Mode act like wings, and it moves that way
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Apr 6, 2018 02:48
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those red parts are wings, they flap. That's how the shields move.
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Apr 6, 2018 02:50
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Guy Goodbody posted:You're right, those don't have thrusters. but the little side bits that come out in Destroy Mode act like wings, and it moves that way In space?
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Apr 6, 2018 02:52
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sassassin posted:One of the many reasons Gundam Wing is the best. IBO's fancy new humans are just regular humans with disfiguring cybernetic implants. Point IBO. (Well, okay. If she was in the Universal Century, Amida would definitely be a Newtype. But that's not terribly plot relevant.) It's interesting that IBO actually seals the deal on something AGE vaguely gestured at with the closest Newtype analogue being societally rejected throwbacks. But where AGE (as was so often the case) had no idea where it wanted to go with the idea, and just had some vague noise about X-Rounders being unpopular with the Vegans or something, Iron Blooded Orphans actually worked it into its central themes, with the poor and desperate being treated as "inhuman" for just doing what it takes to survive.
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Apr 6, 2018 02:52
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The Notorious ZSB posted:Yeah but ultimately no one in Wing demonstrates super human cognition or predictive abilities outside of using the Zero System which is just calculating probabilities not really divining the future with superior extra human prowess. Wing is the Gundam that isn't tied down by super people. Heero is a super soldier of some kind and jumps 20 foot high railings from a standing start, survives point blank explosions followed by drops that'd probably be dangerous on their own and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting. Also, for all that the Zero System is "just calculating probabilities" it's really just magic at the end of the day, because it somehow manages to "divine" the most likely probability with unerring accuracy and feed that to the pilot on a regular basis. Cloaking your magic in technology doesn't make it any less magic at the end of the day, because you're still just using a vaguely defined system with no real rules or structure as a plot device. I wouldn't start counting it as actual technology unless it saw some actual use outside that one area and the show explored it in any depth. chiasaur11 posted:IBO's fancy new humans are just regular humans with disfiguring cybernetic implants. Point IBO. It's not like there aren't several shows without Newtypes or Newtype equivalents if your criteria are so vague that the above "it's just technology, so it doesn't count" applies. Anyone can learn to be a fighter in G Gundam as far as we know for one, and it's just down to training. Innate talent presumably plays some part, but everyone has some degree of innate talent at punching so no-one can't become one with effort. Turn-A has none at all either. Newtypes are never mentioned and there is no equivalent biological or technological analogue of one. The technological Moonlight Butterfly is broken in a whole different way, but nothing in show grants future prediction, increased empathy, telepathy or any of the other usual hallmarks of Newtypes. Mind you, there is a naked-space conversation for a brief moment in the last episode between Loran and Gym, but there's no Newtype flashes and it seems to be just visual flair on Tomino's part. That there's interviews with him saying that there are no Newtypes in Turn-A (though everyone there may become one in the future by his words) confirms it. G-Savior also has no Newtypes. Really though, I can't understand the distaste for Newtype stuff either personally. tsob fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Apr 6, 2018 |
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Apr 6, 2018 03:11
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Guy Goodbody posted:Say what you will about the sidestories and OVAs and manga, it's pretty impressive restraint that all the writers who've come afterwards have let Axis Shock stand as the only time when Newtype powers actually physically moved an object. Sure if you don't count a newtype psychic backlash from forming space crystals on the Unicorn and causing the Sinanju and the Neo Zeong to literally disintegrate.
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Apr 6, 2018 03:15
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What I find more impressive about Unicorn is that someone involved in the production got the okay to confirm that Amuro and Char were dead.
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Apr 6, 2018 03:20
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sassassin posted:One of the many reasons Gundam Wing is the best. Speaking of Gundam Wing, I've started watching it finally. I remember watching like, one episode in the middle of the series on Toonami back in the day and having no idea what was going on beyond 'there aren't enough robots fighting here'. Hopefully now I can appreciate it more, assuming it's still worth watching which I hope it is.
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Apr 6, 2018 03:44
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I don't mind newtype stuff when it's more metaphysical. I have a difficult time finding the point where it gets too excessive for me. Unicorn's last episode is just total bullshit with the newtype nonsense, but stuff before that where it's heightened awareness, psychic walkie-talkies and the NTD is fine.
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Apr 6, 2018 03:46
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https://twitter.com/feezy_feez/status/980174609344380928?s=19
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Apr 6, 2018 04:33
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Newtype romance is a terrible thing. Besides that, newtypes are fine if non-newtypes are a serious part of the story.
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Apr 6, 2018 04:35
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Everyone on board the White Base is implied to be a Newtype by the end of 0079, along with Char and that show's ending was great. Though, being fair, Newtypes were undefined at the time and their scope in terms of power was quite limited as well as their evolution seeming to be more of a spiritual thing rather than a biological one as seemed to become the case later. Which I preferred personally. A change in perspective giving you greater empathy both makes more sense and seems more in line with what Tomino was shooting for thematically really.
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Apr 6, 2018 04:52
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I don't mind the idea of newtypes. I just think they're massively overplayed, and feel like they made two shows (OO and SEED) worse by existing. Though I suppose Coordinators are SEED newtypes instead of SEED itself. Was there ever an explanation for SEED mode and why 5 unrelated people, including a Natural, got it?
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Apr 6, 2018 05:50
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tsob posted:A change in perspective giving you greater empathy both makes more sense and seems more in line with what Tomino was shooting for thematically really. It must suck that Tomino really does feel like empathy is the best thing we can do to prevent horrible things from happening to people, but even he is too cynical to believe that we'll actually get there. So humanity's next stage of evolution gets co-opted by manipulative bastards and weaponized over and over and over.
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Apr 6, 2018 06:15
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Hellioning posted:I don't mind the idea of newtypes. I just think they're massively overplayed, and feel like they made two shows (OO and SEED) worse by existing. It was tolerable in SEED, simply because of how minor and mostly irrelevant it was. I mean, aside from like one or two really minor things it was mostly just enhanced perception and reactions or whatever. 00 on the other hand... yeah, that crap was one of the major reasons for people to dislike the 2nd season/movie (there were others as well, of course). Because in a universe that's previously been relatively down to earth and at least pseudo-sciencing its way along, suddenly introducing effectively magical powers that are incredibly plot important sure was a great idea.
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Apr 6, 2018 06:30
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Lord Koth posted:It was tolerable in SEED, simply because of how minor and mostly irrelevant it was. I mean, aside from like one or two really minor things it was mostly just enhanced perception and reactions or whatever. I actually enjoy the core concept of Innovator vs Innovade, where there's supposed to be this grand true evolution of humanity except the title is co-opted by fakes before the real one actually comes about, and think it could have been interesting if 00 S2 wasn't so boring. I honestly blame GN Particles going from "bullshit perpetual energy source" to "literal magic that fixes relationship problems, facilitates magical space communication, and heals the sick in an instant" more than I blame Innovators as a concept existing.
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Apr 6, 2018 06:51
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Is GB Divers going to get its own thread? I'd make one, but 
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Apr 6, 2018 08:11
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This is cool. PMush Perfect posted:Is GB Divers going to get its own thread? I'd make one, but The currently-airing show usually does so  .That or wait until someone else does it (people are probably mostly waiting to see if it's good enough to make a thread, after Try).
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Apr 6, 2018 09:56
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tsob posted:Heero is a super soldier of some kind and jumps 20 foot high railings from a standing start, survives point blank explosions followed by drops that'd probably be dangerous on their own and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting. Also, for all that the Zero System is "just calculating probabilities" it's really just magic at the end of the day, because it somehow manages to "divine" the most likely probability with unerring accuracy and feed that to the pilot on a regular basis. Cloaking your magic in technology doesn't make it any less magic at the end of the day, because you're still just using a vaguely defined system with no real rules or structure as a plot device. I wouldn't start counting it as actual technology unless it saw some actual use outside that one area and the show explored it in any depth. There's cartoon physics going on with some of Heero's falls, Trowa's circus jumps etc. but it never really becomes important to the plot that they are special in that way, even if it is explicit in early episodes. What makes them special to the plot is that they happen to pilot Gundams and people put a massive amount of faith in that symbol of rebellion/the spirit of a true soldier, even when they barely involved in the current face of the war. The Zero system allows a pilot to combine a massive wealth of combat data and statistics with their own tactical knowledge, intuition etc. It's not magic autopilot. We see similar use of combined systems with the mobile dolls (when Dorothy oversees them), and the M&V being programmed to use Heero and Trowa's fight patterns. It's the characters that have the most doubt about who they are/who the enemy is that struggle with the system most (Quatre after his father dies, amnesiac Trowa). It's a failure to interpret everything the machine is telling them in excruciating detail. You have to be a real nutjob to sort out all the futures it's showing you. Epyon's system was programmed by Treize to drive a pilot towards his glorious future. Heero is able to recognise that it's insane, but Zechs is stupid and lost enough to invest all his marbles in it.
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Apr 6, 2018 10:28
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Motto posted:Is there any particular reason why (western at least) gundam fans seem to universally hate the newtype deal, and it being so prevalent despite that? I don't like chosen one stories where some people are better than other people because of how they were born.
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Apr 6, 2018 10:29
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gundam
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Apr 6, 2018 10:37
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anime was right posted:gundam Hell,
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Apr 6, 2018 11:07
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