|
Sheng-Ji Yang posted:call me optimistic but i think for most of the chuds the prime motivator is not racism, but a hatred of the elites that have left them in the dust for the last 40 years. the reactionaries have done an extremely good job pointing that hatred of elites at the dreaded Coastal Elite Liberals (who do share some of the blame) through billions if not trillions of dollars spent in media propaganda since the 80s, but I think that when push comes to shove and there is inevitably another depression and class conflict will once again come to the fore, it is likely that illusion will mostly shatter. the left's utter failure to counter this narrative with a populist one of its own has been its undoing since the collapse of the new deal coalition. but, i'm not sure the change you're imaginging is going to happen naturally as material conditions change - what's needed is a organized 'voice' that contextualizes those changes. ~*~ Not Censor Content, Create Context ~*~. And no one is doing that. No one else is speaking to these people, and giving then an believable explanation for what is happening, other than the nazis. which is what makes the libs self-serving excuses so trite, because they've never done anything themselves to be convincing, or take on an active role in politics - they've never acted as more than just a wind vane, that follows focus groups polls, never soapboxed for their own beliefs and vision, with persuasive force. they couldn't do this even if they wanted to, of course, because they had no vision. but they've also never shown an inclination to even wanting to. they treat their own beliefs as self-evident, and therefore needing no justification. and it's been like that for a long time. the trauma of economic depression won't necessarily lead to class consciousness, it is just as capable of being sublimated and redirected against a cultivated external Other - that's how fascism operates. and the groundwork has already been laid.
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 16:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 12, 2024 13:02 |
|
|
Wheeee posted:that which is given can be taken away, rights are legal rules which exist only so far as they are enforced, only power is real truly, not even power is real, for it exists only through those who enforce it. guns though, guns are real, and strong, and my friend
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 16:19
|
|
|
one the the things dumb wokes like to poke fun at guys like me for, is the idea that chuds are motivated by economic anxiety instead of racism which runs counter to then being really racist and not always in that dangerous a position financially - in fact the majority of them are quite well off but these guys are morons, because the argument isn't that racism doesn't exist, but that it is itself generated by insecurity - it's an ideology that contextualizes perception, as all ideologies do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV7oXNrl1GE lib wokes treat racism as a spritual phenomena without cause or reason, simply 'possessing' ( (poor) white) people, and therefore rendering the task of appealing to them pointless but that same fatalism, that has existed in one form or another since the new-left turn, has become a self-fulfilling prophecy, which is what makes any depression in the US extremely dangerous - dumb poo poo libs have essentially helped lay the groundwork for a hard reactionary turn, because they gave up on solidarity and gave up labor. rudatron has issued a correction as of 16:38 on Apr 5, 2018 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 16:34
|
|
|
hmmm that all sounds like it might be reasonable, but have you read this HuffPo article that DESTROYS populist talking points??
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 16:50
|
|
|
Laphroaig posted:also lol at the guy who thinks just laws and legislation just spring up unbidden from the forehead of zeus; they come from agitation, demands, and marches, from mass movements of people, not from enlightened goddesses who spring forth from the mind of a god. What about guns though?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 16:52
|
|
|
hackbunny posted:What about guns though? those help too 
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 17:52
|
|
|
jarofpiss posted:op it's a bad idea to trust that the police in this country will use gun control as anything other than another excuse to terrorize marginalized communities marginalized communities are already subject to de facto gun control one-third of black males in America have felony convictions, and convicted felons are barred from owning firearms by federal law for example, if Alton Sterling hadn't been literally murdered by police for being armed while black, he would likely have faced 5+ years in prison for the crime of "felon in possession of a firearm", as well as confiscation of his guns Quiet Feet posted:What I'm getting from this thread is that Rosa Parks should've shot the bus driver if she wanted real change. interesting choice of example, given that her case demonstrated many of the limitations of purely nonviolent movements, as well as the difficulties caused by focusing too hard on how the oppressors will perceive the protest. not to mention how much of the history of civil rights has been wiped out by this insistence on focusing entirely on safe, clean figures like Parks and MLK the Montgomery bus boycott, though it demonstrated that African-Americans were willing to stand up and maintain solidarity even in the face of white threats and intimidation, actually had no effect on the the bus segregation law. neither did her court case, which was bogged down in state courts. instead, the court ruling overturning the segregation laws came from another court case, filled with plaintiffs that had similarly refused to give up their seats several months before Parks had but had originally been deemed by NAACP lawyers to be too imperfect to appeal to middle-class whites
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 18:05
|
|
|
LastInLine posted:in what part of the country do you live that this is your perception? rural texas
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 18:09
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:marginalized communities are already subject to de facto gun control yea h i agree that gun control policy is fundamentally racist to begin with
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 18:26
|
|
|
for example i could tell you about the local felon nazi that was marching open carrying an ar-15 while on parole and the police did nothig even when presented with photographic evidence but it's okay because now he's in jail in i think tennessee for shooting at some people with some of his nazi friends turns out the state only wants gun control to apply to black people
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 18:29
|
|
|
but maybe if enough school shootings happen that liberals get what they want the police will enforce the laws differently this time?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 18:33
|
|
|
be fair jarofpiss, they also don't want white people who might potentially not fully support the powers that be owning guns
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 18:33
|
|
|
america has a gun problem
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 18:53
|
|
|
yea and that problem is that 3% of the population owns over 50% of the guns america needs gun redistribution
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 18:57
|
|
|
upon reaching the age of majority, every american should receive a voter registration card, a rifle, and a large jug of whiskey. possibly also a baby cannabis plant, im on the fence aobut this one
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 19:36
|
|
|
Best Giraffe posted:upon reaching the age of majority, every american should receive a voter registration card, a rifle, and a large jug of whiskey. possibly also a baby cannabis plant, im on the fence aobut this one Unironically a good policy
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 19:47
|
|
|
Best Giraffe posted:upon reaching the age of majority, every american should receive a voter registration card, a rifle, and a large jug of whiskey. possibly also a baby cannabis plant, im on the fence aobut this one Add a PS3, a medium-sized dildo and a Die Hard DVD, and call it the Basic Provisions Program.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 19:52
|
|
|
Wheeee posted:yea and that problem is that 3% of the population owns over 50% of the guns agreed
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 20:02
|
|
|
gonna get my PAL and buy a gun to own the libs
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 20:16
|
|
|
3 posted:those help too Man, there must be a shitload of guns in *squints* New... Zealand? "It's American exceptionalism to believe that armed repression of the masses can't happen here *adjusts glasses* Also civil rights can only be won with guns" 
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 22:06
|
|
|
hackbunny posted:Man, there must be a shitload of guns in *squints* New... Zealand? why can't these cowards see the only way to emancipation is to be gunned down in the street by a security apparatus with a total monopoly on violence
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 23:13
|
|
|
hackbunny posted:Man, there must be a shitload of guns in *squints* New... Zealand? Well black people did start arming themselves and marching armed to kick off the civil rights movement. And the labor rights movement was violent and labor did arm themselves to stop the strike busters. So we have a history of armed resistance to win all the rights we have, wouldn't have happened without violence and the threat of violence. We also have a history of countering with superior violence at times. We're a violent lot. But we wash all this away and pretend it all happened with non violence due to specific amazing individuals appearing at the right exact time.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 23:24
|
|
|
Quiet Feet posted:What I'm getting from this thread is that Rosa Parks should've shot the bus driver if she wanted real change. no, she and the bus driver should have recognized their common class interests, realized racism is a tool of division and oppression and both go together to shoot the owners of the bus company
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2018 00:13
|
|
|
hackbunny posted:Man, there must be a shitload of guns in *squints* New... Zealand? it's almost like white liberals have deliberately obfuscated the actual driving forces behind civil rights in the US for some reason
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2018 01:22
|
|
|
A world without guns seems real cool but the world with guns that we live in currently has nazis stockpiling guns so, uh, I'm not gonna be caught out.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2018 04:54
|
|
|
guns have an America problem
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2018 05:17
|
|
|
schoolchildren have a bullet problem
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2018 05:31
|
|
|
Best Giraffe posted:upon reaching the age of majority, every american should receive a voter registration card, a rifle, and a large jug of whiskey. possibly also a baby cannabis plant, im on the fence aobut this one kumbayaaa, my lord, kumbayaaa (i'm assuming that the age of majority is 18, and that you've come to your senses and realized that the baby cannabis plant is also mandatory)
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2018 07:18
|
|
|
the reason Trump won is that DNC idiots kept insisting that literally everyone who supported him was a racist, and that they supported him only because of racism anyone who wasn't part of the DNC could tell that this was a really bad strategy and was definitely going to backfire, and that in fact most Trump supporters just wanted to gently caress up the establishment in general because no one had given a gently caress about their poor rural people problems for like a century
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2018 07:21
|
|
|
Clochette posted:You're right, because the American armed forces are far less likely to be okay with fighting people from their own country, and far more likely to desert and join the side of the revolution instead of continuing to fight for an oligarchy murdering their own people They're professional soldiers who have sworn loyalty to their country, and they mean it. If the opponent is presented as treasonous or foreign (and they will be, if they're a real threat to the oligarchy), a loyal soldier will fight them. People are very good at obeying authority, especially one that they've gone out of their way to place themselves under. Even more so when they're disciplined and trained to respect the chain of command. Even more so when defying that chain of command would mean facing desertion or treason charges, in an extrajudicial setting where they have no rights whatsoever as a defendant. Soldiers have emotions, but that's irrelevant. Soldiers will almost always follow orders even when they feel bad about it. That's the whole point of training soldiers.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2018 07:36
|
|
|
Best Giraffe posted:consider, for instance, that it won't be welfare queens coming to foreclose on their homes, raising rent and food prices, and brutally crush their entirely justified protests i've yet to see a "deplorable" who isn't racist as hell like it's good to warn about generalizing but an astonishing amount of people actually do have "racism and guns" as their only motivation
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2018 07:37
|
|
|
Sheng-Ji Yang posted:but I think that when push comes to shove and there is inevitably another depression and class conflict will once again come to the fore, it is likely that illusion will mostly shatter. the left's utter failure to counter this narrative with a populist one of its own has been its undoing since the collapse of the new deal coalition. history has shown that the illusion will never, ever shatter on it's own, but it's also extremely fragile. the left still needs a populist message but if one sticks then ho boy
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2018 07:40
|
|
|
america has a gun, problem?
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2018 07:44
|
|
|
Yinlock posted:history has shown that the illusion will never, ever shatter on it's own, but it's also extremely fragile. the left still needs a populist message but if one sticks then ho boy that's a very realistic fake Mao quote, except for the last two words, or maybe the last sentence
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2018 07:45
|
|
|
Bear Retrieval Unit posted:america has a gun, problem? if america had gun this wouldn't have happened
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2018 07:47
|
|
|
Yinlock posted:i've yet to see a "deplorable" who isn't racist as hell they're just mad about being poor, and they're latching on to the only populist message that addresses that complaint (it's the fault of the immigrants and overseas factories for stealing your jobs) if any visible leftist political faction was even acknowledging the problems of poor rural people, let alone addressing them, a lot less of these "deplorables" would latch on to the racist politicians who are the only option for them
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2018 07:50
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2018 08:17
|
|
|
america has a gun problem? no, more mass shootings
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2018 08:21
|
|
|
america is gunna have a problem
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2018 08:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 12, 2024 13:02 |
|
|
Gone Fission posted:kumbayaaa, my lord, kumbayaaa im just thiknin, does an 18 year old with a jug of whiskey have enouhg sense, to care for a plant? or am i consigning millions of plants to a slow, withering death??
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2018 13:44
|
|