Trump IV: THE NEEDLE BESTOWS IT'S GLORY UPON OUR UNWORTHY VESSELS OF FLESH

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Trump IV: THE NEEDLE BESTOWS IT'S GLORY UPON OUR UNWORTHY VESSELS OF FLESH

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Mantis42: Jul 26, 2010

skeleton warrior posted:

Again, it's not just a matter of "slave labor". It's that China doesn't open its markets to you to allow you to sell to the giant Chinese market without you registering your IP with the government, and amazingly, a few years after submitting all of your documents showing all of your IP to the government so that you can sell your tech in China, suddenly there are a bunch of companies in China that have your tech and are underselling you.

And they're underselling you in part because Chinese companies have absolutely no qualms in leveraging their own slave labor, and they don't need to recoup their costs in developing the tech.

And that doesn't cover the cases where a Chinese backed company offers to take over a failing US tech company, looks at all the IP in the discovery phase, then backs away from the merger while now having a copy of all the IP.

I don't care, and neither should you. IP laws, like basically all property rights, are nakedly coercive and designed to protect existing inequalities between the classes (or countries, in this case). Being upset that your national bourgeoisie is being outmaneuvered in their own game by the bourgeoisie of another, in this case much poorer, state is peak liberalism. If a street vendor in Hangzhou selling pirate DVDs, bootleg SimCards, knockoff clothes or toys, etc etc fails to pay some Weinstein or Richard Branson parasite their due, then good. Might as well be upset about Eric Garner selling loose cigs.

# ? Apr 6, 2018 18:44

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 04:31

RuanGacho: Jun 20, 2002; "You're gunna break it!"

IP is only a problem for authors/inventors and capitalists.

Guess which of these interests is motivating national policy.

# ? Apr 6, 2018 18:45

pepito sanchez: Apr 3, 2004; I'm not mexican

Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/277152838675746816?s=20

checked out of curiosity: 155k jobs created in that job report.

the pissbaby was sounding "another recession!" alarms with Obama's higher numbers. unsurprisingly pathetic.

# ? Apr 6, 2018 18:47

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

Mantis42 posted:

I don't care, and neither should you. IP laws, like basically all property rights, are nakedly coercive and designed to protect existing inequalities between the classes (or countries, in this case). Being upset that your national bourgeoisie is being outmaneuvered in their own game by the bourgeoisie of another, in this case much poorer, state is peak liberalism. If a street vendor in Hangzhou selling pirate DVDs, bootleg SimCards, knockoff clothes or toys, etc etc fails to pay some Weinstein or Richard Branson parasite their due, then good. Might as well be upset about Eric Garner selling loose cigs.

oh good what any reasoned discussion needed was babbys first socialism, thank you for your reasoned and intelligent input that was well-thought out and not merely you wanting to feel important and included

# ? Apr 6, 2018 18:47

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

boner confessor posted:

you know what the obama administration was doing about this? TPP

https://qz.com/1044656/trumps-china-trade-war-the-tpp-would-have-cracked-down-on-chinese-intellectual-property-theft/

there's no reason to give trump the benefit of the doubt about anything, he's an enormous blundering idiot who will single handedly cause a recession

This is the same stuff that (some) people ITT are freaking out over. How could a corporation sue a government? What about sovereignty!? :supaburn:

# ? Apr 6, 2018 18:47

Oxxidation: Jul 22, 2007

Mantis42 posted:

I don't care, and neither should you. IP laws, like basically all property rights, are nakedly coercive and designed to protect existing inequalities between the classes (or countries, in this case). Being upset that your national bourgeoisie is being outmaneuvered in their own game by the bourgeoisie of another, in this case much poorer, state is peak liberalism. If a street vendor in Hangzhou selling pirate DVDs, bootleg SimCards, knockoff clothes or toys, etc etc fails to pay some Weinstein or Richard Branson parasite their due, then good. Might as well be upset about Eric Garner selling loose cigs.

lord almighty you people are tiresome

# ? Apr 6, 2018 18:48

Crow Jane: Oct 18, 2012; nothin' wrong with a lady drinkin' alone in her room

https://mobile.twitter.com/ClickHole/status/982306967019499521?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

# ? Apr 6, 2018 18:50

tetrapyloctomy: Feb 18, 2003; Okay -- you talk WAY too fast.; Nap Ghost

Soothing Vapors posted:

the Hippocratic Oath should prevent using your medical knowledge to make my bad posts even worse

I would be shocked if I used more than 20% of my medical knowledge for clinical reasons, the bulk of it I really save for nauseating, scaring, or entertaining people. (Best patient encounter remains "I fell off a dirt bike and I need an STD check.")

# ? Apr 6, 2018 18:50

CascadeBeta: Feb 14, 2009; by Cyrano4747

theflyingorc posted:

This isn't really an accurate picture of the situation. We have some some extremely old copies of most of the New Testament, I'm pretty sure we have intact versions of everything dating to before 300 AD at the latest - I'd have to research more to remember which books we have to which years. The Bible we have is pretty similar to the original copies of the documents, and the places where it's different (like the end of Mark) we know about, and most Bibles you purchase will specifically note that it has an addition.

This doesn't mean that they're accurate accounts, but retranslation hasn't radically altered the contents of the books.

edit: Correction, 1st and 2nd Timothy we have copies from around 350 AD, along with 2nd and 3rd John. So most we have existing copies from 300AD or earlier, but not those 4.

The Gospel of John (which I think was the last Gospel written?) we have copies from as early as 125 AD.

I legitimately did not know this. Good to know.

# ? Apr 6, 2018 18:52

Boon: Jun 21, 2005; by R. Guyovich

fivegears4reverse posted:

This literally makes no sense unless you believe the US magically cannot bomb static islands to pieces for reasons.

If a country with sufficient capacity wanted to remove those islands as a threat, they could, especially if they already have the capacity to project forces far enough to where those islands are suddenly a danger to its navy.

China can put anti-ship missiles on all their artificial islands, and we can hem and haw about their effectiveness in hypotheticals all we want. But we've spent decades using pretty much every aspect of our military strength to remove static targets from an equation. That strength also includes submarines.

If war broke out between the US and China, you'd be foolish to think that the US military, despite being lead by an utter loving moron, would not have plans to counter or at least mitigate the threat those islands represent.

I'm a guy whose job it was to develop and enact global TLAM policy (our longest conventional strike platform) and as of a year ago was the only person to have ever held all 6 TLAM designators. I say this only because I can credibly tell you that it's just not that easy, that there are a lot of factors, and your downplaying of the issue is not actually realistic.

# ? Apr 6, 2018 18:52

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

the washington post is busy mocking the russians today (who, to be fair, are asking for it) with the caption to one image "A guinea pig (not one of the two that Russia has alleged are involved in an international conspiracy)."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...m=.a2e1f9a6c8b6

# ? Apr 6, 2018 18:54

cr0y: Mar 24, 2005

drat I wanna watch down periscope now.

# ? Apr 6, 2018 18:56

Vladimir Putin: Mar 17, 2007; by R. Guyovich

Wait now it�s not OK to own stuff?

# ? Apr 6, 2018 18:56

big trivia FAIL: May 9, 2003; "Jorge wants to be hardcore,
but his mom won't let him"

theflyingorc posted:

This isn't really an accurate picture of the situation. We have some some extremely old copies of most of the New Testament, I'm pretty sure we have intact versions of everything dating to before 300 AD at the latest - I'd have to research more to remember which books we have to which years. The Bible we have is pretty similar to the original copies of the documents, and the places where it's different (like the end of Mark) we know about, and most Bibles you purchase will specifically note that it has an addition.

This doesn't mean that they're accurate accounts, but retranslation hasn't radically altered the contents of the books.

edit: Correction, 1st and 2nd Timothy we have copies from around 350 AD, along with 2nd and 3rd John. So most we have existing copies from 300AD or earlier, but not those 4.

The Gospel of John (which I think was the last Gospel written?) we have copies from as early as 125 AD.

if you add in that the earliest synoptic (Mark) is generally accepted as being authored around 60 - 70 AD, we more or less have contemporary copies

# ? Apr 6, 2018 18:58

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

Vladimir Putin posted:

Wait now it’s not OK to own stuff?

When did property stop being theft

# ? Apr 6, 2018 18:58

Shimrra Jamaane: Aug 10, 2007; Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.

Vladimir Putin posted:

Wait now it�s not OK to own stuff?

�You can�t like, OWN, an idea man�

# ? Apr 6, 2018 18:59

khy: Aug 15, 2005

Mantis42 posted:

I don't care, and neither should you. IP laws, like basically all property rights, are nakedly coercive and designed to protect existing inequalities between the classes (or countries, in this case). Being upset that your national bourgeoisie is being outmaneuvered in their own game by the bourgeoisie of another, in this case much poorer, state is peak liberalism. If a street vendor in Hangzhou selling pirate DVDs, bootleg SimCards, knockoff clothes or toys, etc etc fails to pay some Weinstein or Richard Branson parasite their due, then good. Might as well be upset about Eric Garner selling loose cigs.

If it was limited to simply stealing and re-selling stolen IP locally in the company that wouldn't be upsetting to me.

But look at Huawei. The company is literally built upon stolen secrets and tech. Which they have turned around to create cheap imitations that are then sold HERE, in the US, to directly compete with the companies with whom they've stolen that tech from. Now even that I could let slide with some grumbling, but it gets worse. The stories about built-in backdoors on routers, switches, and other sensitive equipment. Built-in monitoring apps and programs designed to collect data and check back in. If they were sold over in China alone, once again - sketchy as gently caress but not my monkey not my circus. But once they're sold here in the US? That's a whole different scenario and situation.

# ? Apr 6, 2018 19:00

Katt: Nov 14, 2017

Burning_Monk posted:

They made a documentary about it.

Also the documentary about the crisis when a Soviet nuclear submarine got beached in California

# ? Apr 6, 2018 19:00

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

khy posted:

If it was limited to simply stealing and re-selling stolen IP locally in the company that wouldn't be upsetting to me.

But look at Huawei. The company is literally built upon stolen secrets and tech. Which they have turned around to create cheap imitations that are then sold HERE, in the US, to directly compete with the companies with whom they've stolen that tech from. Now even that I could let slide with some grumbling, but it gets worse. The stories about built-in backdoors on routers, switches, and other sensitive equipment. Built-in monitoring apps and programs designed to collect data and check back in. If they were sold over in China alone, once again - sketchy as gently caress but not my monkey not my circus. But once they're sold here in the US? That's a whole different scenario and situation.

of course, we have limited room to complain about back-dooring given some of what the NSA got up to :v:

# ? Apr 6, 2018 19:01

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

1-800-DOCTORB posted:

Well if you played Advanced Wars you would know that subs are weak to cruisers which in turn are weak to battleships.

*Ahem*
I realize I'm not Paul.Power but...were you making that joke on purpose?

Crow Jane posted:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ClickHole/status/982306967019499521?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

That's...a funny way to spell "The Onion". That...is supposed to be satire, right? :stonklol:

# ? Apr 6, 2018 19:03

El Burbo: Oct 10, 2012

Alkydere posted:

*Ahem*
I realize I'm not Paul.Power but...were you making that joke on purpose?

That's...a funny way to spell "The Onion". That...is supposed to be satire, right?

clickhole is the onion

# ? Apr 6, 2018 19:06

haveblue: Aug 15, 2005; Toilet Rascal

Alkydere posted:

That's...a funny way to spell "The Onion". That...is supposed to be satire, right?

Clickhole is the Onion's younger, buzzier sibling (as in it was literally designed to make fun of Buzzfeed-style clickbait trash before Buzzfeed grew a legitimate news department).

# ? Apr 6, 2018 19:07

RuanGacho: Jun 20, 2002; "You're gunna break it!"

IP is a needed evil until dissent has been mitigated appropriately.

ALL HAIL THE TERRAN EMPIRE

# ? Apr 6, 2018 19:08

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Alkydere posted:

*Ahem*
I realize I'm not Paul.Power but...were you making that joke on purpose?

That's...a funny way to spell "The Onion". That...is supposed to be satire, right?

Click hole is to click bait what the onion is to news, and it�s the same company that runs both.

I think there�s also PatriotHole, which is a satire of right-wing nonsense peddlers like Alex Jones.

# ? Apr 6, 2018 19:08

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

khy posted:

The stories about built-in backdoors on routers, switches, and other sensitive equipment. Built-in monitoring apps and programs designed to collect data and check back in. If they were sold over in China alone, once again - sketchy as gently caress but not my monkey not my circus. But once they're sold here in the US? That's a whole different scenario and situation.

# ? Apr 6, 2018 19:08

Alkydere: Jun 7, 2010; Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.

haveblue posted:

Clickhole is the Onion's younger, buzzier sibling (as in it was literally designed to make fun of Buzzfeed-style clickbait trash before Buzzfeed grew a legitimate news department).

Ah, I didn't know that. It seemed Onion-ish, but the world has become such a parody it's hard to tell.

# ? Apr 6, 2018 19:08

paternity suitor: Aug 2, 2016

Mantis42 posted:

I don't care, and neither should you. IP laws, like basically all property rights, are nakedly coercive and designed to protect existing inequalities between the classes (or countries, in this case). Being upset that your national bourgeoisie is being outmaneuvered in their own game by the bourgeoisie of another, in this case much poorer, state is peak liberalism. If a street vendor in Hangzhou selling pirate DVDs, bootleg SimCards, knockoff clothes or toys, etc etc fails to pay some Weinstein or Richard Branson parasite their due, then good. Might as well be upset about Eric Garner selling loose cigs.

Jesus Christ lol

# ? Apr 6, 2018 19:09

paternity suitor: Aug 2, 2016

IP is bullshit - he said from a phone or computer that wouldn�t exist otherwise

# ? Apr 6, 2018 19:11

Mantis42: Jul 26, 2010

paternity suitor posted:

IP is bullshit - he said from a phone or computer that wouldn�t exist otherwise

Nothing gets past this guy.

# ? Apr 6, 2018 19:12

Javes: May 6, 2012; ASK ME ABOUT APPEARING OFFLINE SO I DON'T HAVE TO TELL FRIENDS THEY'RE NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR MY VIDEO GAME TEAM.

paternity suitor posted:

IP is bullshit - he said from a phone or computer that wouldn’t exist otherwise

# ? Apr 6, 2018 19:13

khy: Aug 15, 2005

evilweasel posted:

of course, we have limited room to complain about back-dooring given some of what the NSA got up to

I prefer being equally upset about the NSA backdooring and chinese backdooring, rather than accepting one and decrying the other.

Personally I prefer maintaining technological privacy at the expense of a little security, but too many people are too terrified of 'dem terrists' to agree.

# ? Apr 6, 2018 19:14

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

ClickHole should redo the famous �Which of my Garbage Sons Are You?� with the Trump children.

�You are the dreaded Donald Jr! When I hear you�ve talked to the media, I hope there�s a lunatic nearby to come and eat me. You make my days sour and my nights rancid.�

# ? Apr 6, 2018 19:14

Vladimir Putin: Mar 17, 2007; by R. Guyovich

IP is necessary. Otherwise there would be no incentive to disclose the details of an invention and everything would remain a trade secret until forever.

# ? Apr 6, 2018 19:16

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

evilweasel posted:

of course, we have limited room to complain about back-dooring given some of what the NSA got up to

I have absolutely no moral problem with other sovereign states taking steps to prevent our spy services from snooping on them or their citizens.

# ? Apr 6, 2018 19:16

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011

It's funny how American workers are expected to dutifully accept losing their jobs and dying of opiate overdoses in order to 'help' Chinese slave labor, but of course the capitalist class is not expected to give up one cent of profit in order to help anyone, Chinese bootleg sellers need to be put out of business in order to make sure the profiteers get their cut of DVD sales in Shanghai.

# ? Apr 6, 2018 19:18

Mantis42: Jul 26, 2010

Huawei stealing data is scummy but stealing 1st world tech has historically been a way for developing countries to compete. Stolen IP is probably a positive force for downward redistribution of wealth.

# ? Apr 6, 2018 19:19

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Vladimir Putin posted:

IP is necessary. Otherwise there would be no incentive to disclose the details of an invention and everything would remain a trade secret until forever.

This post makes no sense. IP in an umbrella term that includes trade secrets.

# ? Apr 6, 2018 19:19

Deteriorata: Feb 6, 2005

Vladimir Putin posted:

IP is necessary. Otherwise there would be no incentive to disclose the details of an invention and everything would remain a trade secret until forever.

And like it or not, people are motivated by money. Holding the exclusive rights to profit from an idea is a potent incentive to innovate.

It would be nice if we were all motivated by doing things for the good of all, but few actually are.

# ? Apr 6, 2018 19:20

Boon: Jun 21, 2005; by R. Guyovich

VitalSigns posted:

It's funny how American workers are expected to dutifully accept losing their jobs and dying of opiate overdoses in order to 'help' Chinese slave labor, but of course the capitalist class is not expected to give up one cent of profit in order to help anyone, Chinese bootleg sellers need to be put out of business in order to make sure the profiteers get their cut of DVD sales in Shanghai.

Who... are you talking to?

# ? Apr 6, 2018 19:21

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 04:31

Eggplant Squire: Aug 14, 2003

Look you can't copyright the Coca Cola formula and that's been a secret for a century.

# ? Apr 6, 2018 19:21

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Trump IV: THE NEEDLE BESTOWS IT'S GLORY UPON OUR UNWORTHY VESSELS OF FLESH

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