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That is a sinfully ugly Belgium.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:08
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The Frankfurters will speak French and like it
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Apr 6, 2018 19:20
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Dreddout posted:The Frankfurters will speak French and like it agreed
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Apr 6, 2018 19:21
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Dreddout posted:The Frankfurters will speak French and like it They did it to Strassburg.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:27
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Man, poor Luxembourg gets shafted in this plan. Couldn't give them a few hectares and triple their size or anything...
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Apr 6, 2018 19:39
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why does austria remain
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Apr 6, 2018 19:40
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They’re very proud of their sideways princess head and pencil neck.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:47
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The USSR should be expanded up to the Warta, so Poland keeps moving ever West but staying roughly the same size.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:50
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I'm Franconia containing ~20% actual Franconia.
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Apr 6, 2018 19:55
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Kurtofan posted:why does austria remain You might wanna see this version with an Italian Austria.  Also heh @ "Berolinsk"
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Apr 6, 2018 20:07
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Kurtofan posted:why does austria remain Greatest trick Austria ever pulled etc etc
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Apr 6, 2018 20:12
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I like that the German speaking countries, Austria and Luxemburg, gain no land from dead Germany. Presumably neither does Belgium's German speaking community.
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Apr 6, 2018 20:30
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Golbez posted:I like that the German speaking countries, Austria and Luxemburg, gain no land from dead Germany. Presumably neither does Belgium's German speaking community. TAUSCHEN WIEN GEGEN SUEDTIROL
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Apr 6, 2018 23:11
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The big question is how many of those newly expanded countries would find themselves majority German.
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Apr 6, 2018 23:40
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Peanut President posted:Greatest trick Austria ever pulled etc etc
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Apr 6, 2018 23:47
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dublish posted:The big question is how many of those newly expanded countries would find themselves majority German. French people are already basically Germans pretending to be southern Europeans
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Apr 6, 2018 23:48
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dublish posted:The big question is how many of those newly expanded countries would find themselves majority German.
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Apr 6, 2018 23:54
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dublish posted:The big question is how many of those newly expanded countries would find themselves majority German. Austria annexing Bavaria puts it at 8.747 million Austrians vs. 8.854
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Apr 7, 2018 00:42
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icantfindaname posted:French people are already basically Germans pretending to be southern Europeans We're Celts actually
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Apr 7, 2018 04:03
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Kurtofan posted:We're Celts actually So are many/most Germans
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Apr 7, 2018 04:28
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Kurtofan posted:We're Celts actually Yo, Celtic culture was so widespread around Europe that some of them even got up into Anatolia somehow. Having a Celtic history at some point in Europe is like having brown hair. Unremarkable as crap.
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Apr 7, 2018 05:08
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dublish posted:The big question is how many of those newly expanded countries would find themselves majority German.
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Apr 7, 2018 06:37
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Grape posted:Yo, Celtic culture was so widespread around Europe that some of them even got up into Anatolia somehow. Isn't there some argument that "Celtic" was largely not even a purely ethnic group, but a social group which included a bunch of ethnically unrelated people that mirrored a lot of Celtic culture and many of whom eventually became Celtic speakers? In any case, I do find it kinda weird that Galicia wants in on various Celtic organizations, since those are largely (though very much in theory) based on having some tie to a Celtic language. Afaik, northern Spain hasn't had any Celtic speakers for at least a thousand years. In fairness, Scotland only have 1.7% Gaelic speakers, and Cornish was completely dead for a couple centuries before being revived within modern memory and still kind of a cultural stunt more than a thriving language. drat *Argentina* has more Celtic-language speakers that Galicia due to their 19th century Welsh colonies in Patagonia.  I did want to put in an organological point: the claim that Galicia has bagpipes due to Celtic heritage is *absolute* bunk. Most of Europe has a heritage of playing bagpipes, but the earliest sold evidence of bagpipes in Europe goes back to Spain in the 1200s. There's a fair argument to be made that bagpipes came to Europe in the Middle Ages through either the migration of the Roma, or returnees from the Crusades. So that also undercuts any argument that bagpipes are a mass-Celtic cultural trend from before the Celts migrated out of continental Europe. In whatever case, there's zero particularly Celtic about bagpipes in history, and the only reason they're heavily associated with Celts in the modern conception is because Scotland and Ireland are among the few areas where bagpiping wasn't killed off by fiddles and accordions in the 19th century. Scotland largely because piping was supported by the British military for cultural reasons, and Ireland because their main kind of bagpipe was a heavily modernized instrument that could keep up with emerging trends. Croatia is not even slightly Celtic in the last couple millennia, but has a bagpiping tradition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eob8pDcXhV4 
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Apr 7, 2018 07:03
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Isn't there some argument that "Celtic" was largely not even a purely ethnic group, but a social group which included a bunch of ethnically unrelated people that mirrored a lot of Celtic culture and many of whom eventually became Celtic speakers? sharing a common culture and language is pretty much the definition of an ethnic group though?
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Apr 7, 2018 07:22
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:sharing a common culture and language is pretty much the definition of an ethnic group though? You don’t consider ancestry to be the primary component?
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Apr 7, 2018 07:33
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Platystemon posted:You don’t consider ancestry to be the primary component? No, only Hitler did that. He even exterminated all the Aryan looking Poles first because he thought their combination of supposed superior blood and being somehow tricked into feeling like Poles would turn them into more dangerous opponents than regular Polish scrubs. e: just to clarify, since this is D&D, I’m joking. But yes, language and culture are universally accepted as primary, and most often only criteria. Take the plunge! Okay! fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Apr 7, 2018 |
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Apr 7, 2018 08:30
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It's completely weird to me how Americans so often go: "Yeah my grandmother's cousin's aunt's grandfather was Irish so I'm Irish too!" No, you've grown up and lived in America all your life and so have your parents, you're an American. You're not Irish. The Irish live in Ireland.
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Apr 7, 2018 10:31
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Platystemon posted:You don’t consider ancestry to be the primary component? The primary component of ethnic identity is the individual's perception of their belonging to a community.
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Apr 7, 2018 10:38
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It's a chicken-egg thing, where one implies the other in the long term. People with the same language and culture, inhabiting the same geographical area, will eventually come to share ancestry even if that wasn't originally the case. That is, unless there is a strong enough barrier to prevent it, but in that case they probably aren't primarily identifying as the overarching group to begin with.Carbon dioxide posted:It's completely weird to me how Americans so often go: "Yeah my grandmother's cousin's aunt's grandfather was Irish so I'm Irish too!" I don't think that's something they say. It always seemed to me like white Americans are just going through the motions when they mention their European ancestry and it's not something they actually care about, it's just that American culture expects labels, the more the better. Those labels don't actually have to correspond to anything except in a very general symbolic sense. Phlegmish fucked around with this message at 11:04 on Apr 7, 2018 |
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Apr 7, 2018 11:00
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MeinPanzer posted:The primary component of ethnic identity is the individual's perception of their belonging to a community.
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Apr 7, 2018 11:01
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Eh, a lot of the time 'ethnic x' is used to denote at least SOME ancestry in x. You're Greek if you speak Greek, but you're an ethnic Greek if your grandparents spoke Greek too, so to say.
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Apr 7, 2018 12:12
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If Germany had let the Austro-Hungarian empire collapse in 1914, as it was going to anyway, they would probably have around double the population and land area they do now. Of all the poor decisions German leadership made from 1885 to the end of WW2, the one to trigger WW1 must be by far the worst, both nationally and for the other nations of Europe. It's impossible to say what would have happened next but for one the Nazis would certainly have never existed in the way that they did. Germany politically wasn't intrinsically any worse than the other European empires at the time and at this point in time decolonisation and the rise of democracy would likely be similar to now. I think it showcases the fundamental weakness of absolute monarchy, sometimes when you roll the dice you get a really lovely leader like Kaiser WIlhelm II who gets to do whatever they want for decades at a time.
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Apr 7, 2018 12:13
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reignonyourparade posted:Eh, a lot of the time 'ethnic x' is used to denote at least SOME ancestry in x. You're Greek if you speak Greek, but you're an ethnic Greek if your grandparents spoke Greek too, so to say. Yes, which is cultural, not genetic ancestry, exactly as people have been saying. Carbon dioxide posted:It's completely weird to me how Americans so often go: "Yeah my grandmother's cousin's aunt's grandfather was Irish so I'm Irish too!" It's not about being Irish, but about having an ethnie - culture where your status has been historically determined by your ancestry. Declaration of descent has definitely been a significant part in American identity until relatively recently (and arguably still is), as paradoxical as it may sound - in short, you are not claiming to be part of a different nation, but are claiming a social position within your own society by claiming a status bearing heritage. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 12:37 on Apr 7, 2018 |
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Apr 7, 2018 12:33
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Incidentally, this means that if you post enough on SA, you might be a goon in an ethnic sense. Brace for the inevitable ethnic cleansing of SA. reignonyourparade posted:Eh, a lot of the time 'ethnic x' is used to denote at least SOME ancestry in x. You're Greek if you speak Greek, but you're an ethnic Greek if your grandparents spoke Greek too, so to say. This is I think a different meaning of ethnicity than is usually used in more academic terms, and is basically a synonym for "ancestry." If a person is of Greek ancestry but lives in the US and doesn't claim to be Greek-American, for instance, they have no ethnic connection to Greece or Greeks. Ethnicity can be related to skin colour and other genetic markers; language; religion; cuisine; etc., or any combination of such features, but no one determines ethnicity. The only thing that ultimately lies at the core of ethnic identity is whether a person declares him or herself to be a member of a certain group. Which is why the claim that an ethnicity is "made up" is ridiculous; all ethnic identities are constantly being created and re-created.
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Apr 7, 2018 12:36
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Carbon dioxide posted:It's completely weird to me how Americans so often go: "Yeah my grandmother's cousin's aunt's grandfather was Irish so I'm Irish too!" Europeans complain about this a lot but I am not sure I've ever heard such a thing in the US. Sure if you ask I'll tell you where my ancestors came from, but none of it is relevant to me.
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Apr 7, 2018 12:37
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Grand Fromage posted:Europeans complain about this a lot but I am not sure I've ever heard such a thing in the US. I think it's something that appears in film and literature as an anachronistic higher class thing, and people then kinda accept it into the canon of Things We Know About Americans.
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Apr 7, 2018 12:40
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Grand Fromage posted:Europeans complain about this a lot but I am not sure I've ever heard such a thing in the US. I've heard it a lot since I moved to the USA. Mostly from my mother-in-law, who will describe herself as 'Irish', 'Scottish', 'Irish-Scottish', and 'Scandinavian', swapping these around based on how she feels that particular day.
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Apr 7, 2018 12:41
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It’s probably a perception they get from tourists. American tourists in Germany are disproportionately likely to be descended from German immigrants. Tourists aren’t exactly good representatives of their home country.
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Apr 7, 2018 12:45
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Hungry posted:I've heard it a lot since I moved to the USA. I didn't say it never happens, but my observation of Europeans talking about it online and the experience of living in the US are quite different.
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Apr 7, 2018 12:47
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I'd suspect it has to do with American pop culture, which makes a big deal of Irish-Americans and Italian-Americas. The whole "celebrating terrorism against an ally" thing Irish-Americans have got going on probably also colors things.Flayer posted:If Germany had let the Austro-Hungarian empire collapse in 1914, as it was going to anyway, they would probably have around double the population and land area they do now. Of all the poor decisions German leadership made from 1885 to the end of WW2, the one to trigger WW1 must be by far the worst, both nationally and for the other nations of Europe. It's impossible to say what would have happened next but for one the Nazis would certainly have never existed in the way that they did. Germany politically wasn't intrinsically any worse than the other European empires at the time and at this point in time decolonisation and the rise of democracy would likely be similar to now. I think it showcases the fundamental weakness of absolute monarchy, sometimes when you roll the dice you get a really lovely leader like Kaiser WIlhelm II who gets to do whatever they want for decades at a time. After that, Grossdeutschland would be pretty well situated to creating a sort of proto-EU centered around itself, binding Scandinavia, Benelux, and the Czechs to Germany. (You're making me want to play Victoria III)
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Apr 7, 2018 13:01
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