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yep. at least 6 journalists were shot also, despite clearly wearing press vests, and one of the dead was a 14 year old kid too.
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Apr 6, 2018 22:56
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https://twitter.com/jacobinmag/status/982371564376162304 https://twitter.com/alexbkane/status/982395831180496896
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Apr 7, 2018 00:26
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A Spherical Sponge posted:So I didn't see it posted earlier, but apparently hundreds of settlers occupied Al-Aqsa earlier in the week with the support of israeli special forces, who shot live rounds at palestinian teenagers who tried to stop them. They're still there now. That's a pretty big provocation right? Here's a link to the story: Hundreds of Jewish settlers storm Al-Aqsa compound I haven’t been able to find any backing of this story from Western news sources (yes, I know that they’re biased, but the really big Israeli provocations usually get a mention from someone like the Guardian or BBC) and the footage appears to show what seem like reasonably ordinary guided tours rather than an occupation. I’d advise treating this one with caution for the time being - as I remember, the quality of Al-Jazeera’s reportage has been going downhill since a recent crackdown on press freedom by the Qatari royal family. If we get more verifiable details on this, though, then fair enough.
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Apr 7, 2018 00:51
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Hey, msnbc did a good https://twitter.com/LibyanBentBladi/status/982098952370745344?s=19
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Apr 7, 2018 01:32
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Darth Walrus posted:I haven’t been able to find any backing of this story from Western news sources (yes, I know that they’re biased, but the really big Israeli provocations usually get a mention from someone like the Guardian or BBC) and the footage appears to show what seem like reasonably ordinary guided tours rather than an occupation. I’d advise treating this one with caution for the time being - as I remember, the quality of Al-Jazeera’s reportage has been going downhill since a recent crackdown on press freedom by the Qatari royal family. If we get more verifiable details on this, though, then fair enough. http://petra.gov.jo/Public_News/Nws_NewsDetails.aspx?Site_Id=1&lang=2&NewsID=347812&CatID=-1 There's this statement by the Jordanian government regarding the recent incursions. Looking up more details though this isn't a new thing, as since 2003 Israel has been ignoring agreements about maintaining access for Palestinians and not allowing non-muslim people in the area, so I guess it's not as big as a deal as the article made it out to be. http://muslimnews.co.uk/news/palestine/palestine-jewish-settlers-descend-east-jerusalems-al-aqsa-mosque-passover/ this article has quotes from palestinian officals regarding the intrusion of settlers backed by armed forces into holy areas. Both this and the al-jazeera story seem to be based off statements from the Jerusalem Islamic Waqf Organization, and other articles I just randomly found with related search terms use that same source and/or the statement from the Jordanian government. There were a few israeli articles with a pretty clear "temple mount" agenda which were basically saying that all of the settlers in these areas were just tourists and everyone reporting on the story is delusional and antisemitic. So none of those sources are particularly objective, and it's pretty hard to say if anything actually happened at all, or if something did happen, how it happened. I guess just don't believe the story until there's more confirmation or refutation either way; sorry for the confusion. This sort of stuff would be a lot easier to figure out if western news media actually reported on these sorts of things properly
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Apr 7, 2018 01:38
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Look how much danger Israelis face https://twitter.com/ndvori/status/982182282558562306 "The best show in town"
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Apr 7, 2018 08:19
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Lets say, hypothetically that yes, hamas is partly organizing these demonstrations. Does that mean that Hamas feels militarily ready to once again face an Israeli incursion? What seems confusing to me is, if Hamas is orchestrating these demonstrations, why do so at such a height of US eyes on Israel?
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Apr 7, 2018 08:53
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Why organize protests against the occupation? I just don't get it.
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Apr 7, 2018 10:52
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Why even live if life ends in death.
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Apr 7, 2018 10:56
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I know I only organise protests in the utmost secrecy to make sure no one finds out
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Apr 7, 2018 11:29
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LeoMarr posted:Lets say, hypothetically that yes, hamas is partly organizing these demonstrations. Does that mean that Hamas feels militarily ready to once again face an Israeli incursion? What seems confusing to me is, if Hamas is orchestrating these demonstrations, why do so at such a height of US eyes on Israel? It doesn't really have anything to do with military anything. It's happening because, for one reason or another, public opinion is running hot in Gaza. That's the problem with blaming it all on Hamas: fundamentally, a government can't create mass demonstrations like this out of thin air without a level of highly-organized brutal fascism that is way beyond Hamas' capabilities right now. The IDF estimates that 20,000 people showed up to the protests on Friday, in spite of the fact that the protesters were actively being shot at by uniformed military troops. That's not something that Hamas can force people to do: the anger is there, and it's real, and Hamas couldn't stop it if they tried. That's one problem with a lot of American observers of Palestinian politics: there's a tendency to assume that everything is done for the sake of international viewers and viewed solely through the lens of Israel relations, and people tend to forget the role of domestic Palestinian politics and public opinion. Main Paineframe fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Apr 7, 2018 |
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Apr 7, 2018 14:38
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Main Paineframe posted:It doesn't really have anything to do with military anything. It's happening because, for one reason or another, public opinion is running hot in Gaza. Someone on Israeli radio (might have been Avigdor?) was trying to convince the interviewer that Hamas was spending millions of dollars to bribe people into showing up to the demonstrations. I dunno how much the interviewer was convinced, but he didn't question whoever it was too hard either.
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Apr 7, 2018 16:12
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joepinetree posted:Look how much danger Israelis face  "to sit down" should be "for Saturday".
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Apr 7, 2018 16:33
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God this poo poo makes Cyprus seem like Disneyland. I crossed the border with my Greek SO, and the Turkish Cypriot borders guards were just bored and kinda happy to see visitors. They asked me where I came from, and were generally much friendlier than the surly dude at the interceding British base. Then we drove around, and even though your license plate gives away what half of the island you're from no one gave a gently caress. I can't even imagine people there, let alone loving young people, taking spectator seats to watch murder of the Other Side like they were at a goddamn sports game. And my spouse's family is half literal Famagusta refugees from 74' lol.
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Apr 7, 2018 22:21
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Siege mentality is a hell of a drug.
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Apr 7, 2018 22:37
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https://twitter.com/judaharigross/status/982879556439814144
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Apr 8, 2018 21:18
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There's no such thing as a good-faith argument for a 2 state solution.
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Apr 8, 2018 21:58
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Gregoriev posted:There's no such thing as a good-faith argument for a 2 state solution. Thank you so much for sharing! Well, take care! 
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Apr 8, 2018 23:16
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joepinetree posted:Look how much danger Israelis face What the gently caress
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Apr 9, 2018 00:09
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You say that as if you've never watched your army massacre protesters in person before.  Seeing similar things in a previous IDF assault on Gaza is what made me realize that most Israelis aren't simply misguided but actually bloodthirsty.
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Apr 9, 2018 00:16
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They've nearly all been in the IDF do they're there rooting for their team. Military indoctrination must be a hell of a thing.
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Apr 9, 2018 00:19
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israel sucks so much rear end.
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Apr 9, 2018 00:25
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Gregoriev posted:There's no such thing as a good-faith argument for a 2 state solution.
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Apr 9, 2018 02:35
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Give the israelis cyprus and concentrate all the problems to one place
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Apr 9, 2018 02:37
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One state solution but the state is run by, I dunno, Jains or something.
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Apr 9, 2018 02:40
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Some examples: https://mobile.twitter.com/allansorensen72/status/486954506517639170 https://www.kristeligt-dagblad.dk/2014-07-11/when-bombs-receive-applause quote:While most of the 25,000 inhabitants of the southern town of Sderot in the evening try to stay safe indoors from the rain of rockets from Gaza, you will meet a different image on a small hill on the outskirts of the city. This place changes the ghostly atmosphere into something resembling a party.
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Apr 9, 2018 03:26
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Dead Reckoning posted:How about this: A one state solution is just a reset to 1945, (which didn't go super well last time,) because any one state solution both sides as they exist now might conceivably agree to would not resolve the underlying tensions between the two communities. Any one-state solution that both sides agree to would presumably not disenfranchise the Palestinians. I don't see how it would approximate 1945, given a Palestinian voting bloc with voting rights would outnumber the White Jewish vote. That doesn't resolve your second point, which is obviously an issue, but that realistically isn't resolved with a two state solution between the two sides as they exist now either.
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Apr 9, 2018 03:58
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Gregoriev posted:Any one-state solution that both sides agree to would presumably not disenfranchise the Palestinians. I don't see how it would approximate 1945, given a Palestinian voting bloc with voting rights would outnumber the White Jewish vote. I'm not sure you grasp what was going wrong in 1945.
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Apr 9, 2018 05:13
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Zanzibar Ham posted:You say that as if you've never watched your army massacre protesters in person before. Israeli election results and polling on specific I/P questions did that for me. Seeing Israeli's pull up couches to enjoy the spectacle of Gaza being bombed only confirmed it. Most of the time when a country does horrible poo poo the problem is primarily the government rather than the population. With Israel, it is absolutely both.
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Apr 9, 2018 10:55
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I like it when Americans wash their hands from the whole Iraq and Afghanistan mess. But yeah, sure, Israelis are all individually monsters, you guys only have a bad government and there's nothing you can do about it. Israelis are being brainwashed into thinking the whole world is out to get them from the moment they hit grade school, is it time to post a link to Yoav Shamir's "Defamation" again?
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Apr 9, 2018 12:26
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While I am American, I'm also Israeli and spent 30 of my 32 years of life in Israel, and while yes we do get hit with propaganda as soon as we reach 1st grade that doesn't change the fact that almost every time I'm at a social gathering and the conflict comes up the general sentiment is that Palestinians are terrorists and the few times I dared to defend them I was met with mostly hostility. This is in multiple cities (Eilat, Tel-Aviv area, Ra'anana that I recall clearly) and social circles, the only places I was in where non-family generally agreed with me was when in support groups for the mentally disabled.
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Apr 9, 2018 12:43
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Also, it wouldn't be unfair to point out that a huge proportion of Americans are also bloodthirsty psychopaths.
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Apr 9, 2018 12:54
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It wasn't meant to challenge the fact, it was meant to explain how it came to be and to challenge the notion that Israelis are somehow unique in the sense that only they support the immoral actions of their government.
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Apr 9, 2018 12:55
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emanresu tnuocca posted:It wasn't meant to challenge the fact, it was meant to explain how it came to be and to challenge the notion that Israelis are somehow unique in the sense that only they support the immoral actions of their government. Oh, okay, I now see what you were replying to.
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Apr 9, 2018 13:01
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Seems like the Israeli Air Force bombed targets in Syria last night
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Apr 9, 2018 13:13
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the protests against the iraq war were sizable. and the guy that started that war stole an election.
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Apr 9, 2018 13:14
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emanresu tnuocca posted:It wasn't meant to challenge the fact, it was meant to explain how it came to be and to challenge the notion that Israelis are somehow unique in the sense that only they support the immoral actions of their government. Wasn't trying to imply Israelis are unique, but do want to make the point that the problem in Israel goes much, much deeper than a bad government. A large majority of Israelis is real gung-ho about this poo poo which means a solution would involve either radically changing the minds of a very signficant fraction of the population or an outside actor stepping in and using force if necessary to protect the Palestinians from the Israelis.
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Apr 9, 2018 15:28
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And it's not just Jews in Israel. Jews in America are just as bad on this issue. I was raised Jewish, my family is Jewish, and other than a handful of Jewish friends in "far-left" circles they are all super right-wing on Israel and otherwise solid Democrats.
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Apr 9, 2018 15:39
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Internet Explorer posted:And it's not just Jews in Israel. Jews in America are just as bad on this issue. I was raised Jewish, my family is Jewish, and other than a handful of Jewish friends in "far-left" circles they are all super right-wing on Israel and otherwise solid Democrats. I was under the impression based on poll numbers that younger American Jews (say <35) were more likely to be moderate or pro-Palestinian. Do you have any data?
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Apr 9, 2018 15:45
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Gregoriev posted:Any one-state solution that both sides agree to would presumably not disenfranchise the Palestinians. I don't see how it would approximate 1945, given a Palestinian voting bloc with voting rights would outnumber the White Jewish vote. That doesn't resolve your second point, which is obviously an issue, but that realistically isn't resolved with a two state solution between the two sides as they exist now either. The Palestinian Arabs outnumbered the Palestinian Jews in 1945, by a much larger margin than exists now. Orange Devil posted:I was under the impression based on poll numbers that younger American Jews (say <35) were more likely to be moderate or pro-Palestinian. Do you have any data? Its a generational shift. Younger American Jews tend to be less pro-Israel than our parents, in spite of the fact that the Jewish communities we grew up in tended to be steadfast supporters of Israel.
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Apr 9, 2018 15:57
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