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Serephina posted:I'm not sure I'd ever give the Xenonauts devs more money after the first game. It's like they took a 20 year old game that had spawned countless imitations, then recreated it with as minimal innovation as possible, while sucking out all the flavour and style. Yeah, that game was a massive dissapointment. At least the Firaxis reboot was good and Phoenix Point has potential.
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Apr 9, 2018 22:51
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i heard its so depressing to look at its basically its aesthetic
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Apr 9, 2018 23:14
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from the demo for xeno2, the second go-around is pretty much weaponized tedium as well
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Apr 9, 2018 23:14
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going full on shield and stunstick early on in xenonauts was hilarious, basically busting in and beating a bunch of aliens like you're LAPD telling minorities to stop resisting was something that SHOULDN'T work but holy crap did it ever that unfortunately was the most enjoyment i ever got out of the game though
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Apr 9, 2018 23:25
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I felt the same way about Xenonauts. Combat was so boring and unintuitive I only managed to get through a handful of battles and the air combat was even worse. First alien I ran into was a bad sprite of what looked like a space janitor and I almost thought something had gone wrong with the graphics. Lack of cover mechanics and poor map layouts meant the flow of play was awkward during engagement and tedious outside of it. The whole thing felt like a dry spreadsheet trying to mimic the original X-Com as closely as possible without understanding what made it fun or bothering to improve on it. But I appreciate Xenonauts for reminding me that managing multiple bases and micromanaging costs was actually not fun, despite what the "new XCOM is too dumbed down" crowd wants to insist.
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Apr 9, 2018 23:31
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Vib Rib posted:But I appreciate Xenonauts for reminding me that managing multiple bases and micromanaging costs was actually not fun, despite what the "new XCOM is too dumbed down" crowd wants to insist. Yeah, 99% of the time the additional complexity is just meaningless bullshit, because it's super hard to balance the game well enough to not have most of the factors dominated by broken stuff. Like in the case of old X-Com, why would you even bother with all micromanaging and looking at graphs and poo poo when you can just fund your whole operation by selling laser cannons?
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Apr 10, 2018 00:04
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I've noticed that the chosen boss missions blow hot poo poo. It's just a long slog where everything has tons of health and it keeps spamming berserkers and mechs while I'm trying to kill the stupid coffin thing. I also think that enemy hp scales a little too aggressively, since it really just becomes a check to see if you advanced to the next weapon tier and makes your new guns effectively the same as the old ones. The chosen are still loser idiots and not cool. They're entertaining to deal with in missions, but like I said, they have incredibly lovely boss levels that I don't want to do. I mostly just don't like the chosen from a design standpoint. Human-like aliens are boring. I just don't feel impressed or interested when the otherworldly being that crossed the infinite void of space is actually just uglier humans who are somehow even bigger idiots than regular humans. Overall though, I'm having fun. Not as good as EW, but still pretty good. I'm excited about Phoenix Point though. That looks way more my style than Chosen. Tollymain posted:i love skirmishers they're my hosed up children There's more than just Mox and the lady on the TV screen?
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Apr 10, 2018 00:24
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VHGS posted:Yeah, 99% of the time the additional complexity is just meaningless bullshit, because it's super hard to balance the game well enough to not have most of the factors dominated by broken stuff. Like in the case of old X-Com, why would you even bother with all micromanaging and looking at graphs and poo poo when you can just fund your whole operation by selling laser cannons? I feel that the best way to do it is somewhere between the two. A bit more complex than nuCOM but not nearly as hellishly complicated as oldCOM. Hell if I know how that should work, though.
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Apr 10, 2018 00:29
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The Skeleton King posted:There's more than just Mox and the lady on the TV screen?
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Apr 10, 2018 00:32
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I mean the whole disappointment with Xenonauts I had is the part of why I remembered Xenonauts 2: while the aesthetic aspect is still pretty bleh (if more robust against "welp the one freelancer we had willing to do sprites left" with the change to 3D), in hindsight, my bigger issue with it was the whole straight copy of X-COM with minimal enhancements to make me willing to ignore that lack of good aesthetic. While some of it has turned into a FiraxCOM copy instead (it is hilarious that both of the major old school revival attempts ultimately came to the conclusion that multiple base management was dumb), if they're actually going take advantage of that Cold War setting to have it as a meaningful influence on gameplay this time around, I'm willing to give it another shot since that kind of thing is my jam. Especially if they don't place any sanity checks on it so the biggest threat to the Earth nuking itself and making the aliens job way easier can be some random Canadian general, if only because I'm easily amused by the thought of the people of Vancouver's day being ruined by liberal application of high explosive assassination techniques.
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Apr 10, 2018 01:28
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The Skeleton King posted:I mostly just don't like the chosen from a design standpoint. Human-like aliens are boring. I just don't feel impressed or interested when the otherworldly being that crossed the infinite void of space is actually just uglier humans who are somehow even bigger idiots than regular humans. But the Chosen are mutated/altered humans. They're 'Chosen,' if you will, from the human race, by the Ethereals.
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Apr 10, 2018 02:07
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While it didn't bother me at first, now that it's been brought up, yea, it's kinda a shame how most foes in XCOM2 are super humanoid. There really isn't a lot of moments where you go "Oh my god what the gently caress is THAT?!". Even in the early game of TFTD, stuff like Deep Ones where horrific once you knew what they where (too blurry to be scary on the tactical field), and really oddball stuff like Giant Jellyfish, floating miniUFOs, goddamn Dinosaurs the size of trucks waiting behind doors. Mutons in EW where cooler than the new ones, and yea the Chosen while tactically rich and challenging, are not really fluffy or atmospheric.
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Apr 10, 2018 02:52
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I dunno both plot related skulljackings game me a real "what the gently caress is that?" moment in my first run. Overall yeah the whole tone is less mysterious but the new tone fits with the story. I also really like the alien occupied earth setting a whole bunch though.
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Apr 10, 2018 03:01
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Serephina posted:While it didn't bother me at first, now that it's been brought up, yea, it's kinda a shame how most foes in XCOM2 are super humanoid. There really isn't a lot of moments where you go "Oh my god what the gently caress is THAT?!". Even in the early game of TFTD, stuff like Deep Ones where horrific once you knew what they where (too blurry to be scary on the tactical field), and really oddball stuff like Giant Jellyfish, floating miniUFOs, goddamn Dinosaurs the size of trucks waiting behind doors. Mutons in EW where cooler than the new ones, and yea the Chosen while tactically rich and challenging, are not really fluffy or atmospheric. I mean we still get Gatekeepers for our 'really weird poo poo' quota. And Faceless are pretty out there and have suitably horrific transforming animations. I do think making Codexes weird holo-ninjas and spectres humanoid was stupid tho. Also Avatars. We should have had buff Ethereals instead and weird hosed up tech monsters with a lot of spider code legs. Zore fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Apr 10, 2018 |
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Apr 10, 2018 03:03
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Yea, the alien-occupied earth thing was a really interesting take. It's not horror, but has this great 70's anime dystopian vibe going on. But it's really underplayed, while the setting is chatted about a bunch in the avenger, you only get small glimpses of it ingame. It's a really cool setting that would have probably been better served in a different game. Re: weirdo aliens, the few 'surprise!' moments you get from skulljacking and Faceless where actually real highlights of my first campain. First faceless I saw I just laughed and laughed and cheerfully took the KIA, classic dick XCOM move. The codex was tense, but also possibly another case of lost fluff; the cyber reality stuff is cool, but so underdeveloped that it ends up out of place. (Aside: I apparently have no learning skills at all, and was honestly surprised by meeting that avatar.) But yea, this all comes back to the mixed theming XCOM2 has. We have small moments of Horror, ie Faceless and Crystalid eggs, the Authoritarian Advent, super techno Avatars and Chosen, random actual-aliens-but-not-scary like Gatekeepers and Andomedons, Cyber Codexes, all sorts. It's a huge mixed bag and could have used a more focused theme. Imo. Serephina fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Apr 10, 2018 |
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Apr 10, 2018 03:08
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what if in the cyberpunk future aliens are the megacorp
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Apr 10, 2018 03:10
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What's more dangerous? Increased chosen encounters, or Hunt XCOM? I don't know which would be a shittier dark event to deal with.
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Apr 10, 2018 03:54
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The Skeleton King posted:What's more dangerous? Increased chosen encounters, or Hunt XCOM? I don't know which would be a shittier dark event to deal with. Unless you're pretty hosed right now take Hunt XCOM. Increased Chosen Encounters means instead of once every four missions it's like once every three or something, Hunt XCOM means you do the Avenger Defense so if you're hurting and don't have the defense matrix up that might just end your campaign (though probably not). It's a fun mission anyway.
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Apr 10, 2018 04:58
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Serephina posted:While it didn't bother me at first, now that it's been brought up, yea, it's kinda a shame how most foes in XCOM2 are super humanoid. There really isn't a lot of moments where you go "Oh my god what the gently caress is THAT?!". Even in the early game of TFTD, stuff like Deep Ones where horrific once you knew what they where (too blurry to be scary on the tactical field), and really oddball stuff like Giant Jellyfish, floating miniUFOs, goddamn Dinosaurs the size of trucks waiting behind doors. Mutons in EW where cooler than the new ones, and yea the Chosen while tactically rich and challenging, are not really fluffy or atmospheric. The first time I saw an andromedon I loving screamed, those things are horrific. Spectres gave me the same feeling. Edit: if sectopods and gatekeepers didn't strike fear into your heart then you aren't human The Velvet Witch fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Apr 10, 2018 |
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Apr 10, 2018 06:11
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None of the aliens surprised me because other than the Avatar they had all been revealed in previews and hype material already by the time the game came out.  I wish I'd stayed away but I thought what they'd shown was like 50% of the enemy list, not the whole drat thing.
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Apr 10, 2018 06:31
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No way, sectopods are goofy as hell. They're a big shoebox with dumb legs, they are not scary in the slightest. Unless it's multiplayer, then yes run and scream.
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Apr 10, 2018 06:32
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they look goofy but holy poo poo have i had missions turned around by sectopods deciding to go all 'FIRE ZE MISSILES' on their first turn and totally compromising my position
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Apr 10, 2018 06:33
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Sectopods had some much cooler designs in the concept art. But yeah they are scary for reasons beyond their appearance. I personally liked he more old-school looks of the aliens in EU. There's something about old school alien designs that just feels right. Anyway I did the kill the assassin mission for the first time and boy is that the least fun I have ever had in an XCOM game. I'm glad I didn't do Ironman, because I have to try that one again tomorrow. I'm going to build a second SPARK just to kill the bitch and the million high hp assholes in the place. Also, gently caress Archons. Dodge: grazed is the most bullshit thing ever. XCOM accuracy is tough enough, I don't need enemies getting to roll a second dice to decide if I actually put a dent in their huge pile of hit points. Also advent troopers get way too much hp after they scale up. Fuckers should never have more than HP than one less than your maximum damage on your assault rifle or assault rifle equivalent. Leave the sponging to the big fuckers like berserkers and andromedons. I don't need sectoids and scrub troopers and vipers and every fucker in the universe being built like a tank. You know, sometimes it's okay if the basic grunt and lightweights go down easy. XCOM is good at making even the wimpiest enemies dangerous if you miss your shots or make poor decisions. You don't need endless sponges. Also, if archons are going to dodge every bullet under the sun, then don't make them huge tanks! C'mon Firaxis!
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Apr 10, 2018 07:29
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Advent mooks die in two shots, and that's fine. Past early game, you're expected to have more exotic tools at your disposal than taking pot shots with a rifle and expecting them to one-hit things. As an example, shotgun flank hits. Dodging, Archons, etc are another issue entirely during the midgame. If anything, lategame Operatives are far too powerful, with stuff like superior scopes and superior aim PCSs ruining any semblance of challange. You can knock down an andromden and his accompanying pod in a single turn on beta strike, which shows how much overkill you can pack.
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Apr 10, 2018 08:04
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Pencil me in as another person that loves the addition of the Chosen. I'm glad they gave them personalities and they hit that sweet spot where they have enough personality to be memorable and variation where you have to them approach differently. Found them meh on veteran difficulty cause they were so easy but on harder difficulties those early encounters let you build up the hate from all the "Oh poo poo not right now please" moments they add to a mission. Lost first three Legendary Warlock encounters, but when I finally beat him on the 4th it was cathartic. Definitely think they're a good starting point that breaks up some early game monotony. Speaking of early game, it's pretty dull currently due to lack of abilities. Here's to hoping that in Xcom 3 they add a little more meat to the tactical gameplay before you get abilities. It'd be interesting to see bonuses to aim from pincer attacks and maybe even give every unit suppression as a default skill.
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Apr 10, 2018 09:44
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Also I was agreeing with the earlier sentiment that too many of XCOM 2's enemies were too humanoid and not bizarre enough, but then I started running down the checklist and with the exception of things like the Spectre (which is a post-release addition anyway) there really are a lot of weirder aliens on the roster. I mean yeah the Andromedon is still basically a chunkier metal muton and the mutons are a little more humanoid, but there's still some variety. I think ultimately I just don't like ADVENT.
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Apr 10, 2018 10:42
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I love beserkers and mutons, the big loving goofs.l love mutons less in lost missions with the better advent mod because they will grenade the gently caress out of everything.xcom?grenade.lost?grenade.their own shadow? Grenade. Oh look a series of chain explosions and missed shots blew up 5 cars in a row and now theres 40 lost running around? Grenade. And now xcom and the aliens are temporary allies because there just!too!many!lost!.and still youre using grenades!YOU'RE NOT HELPING MUTON!
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Apr 10, 2018 11:19
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AppleDan posted:The first time I saw an andromedon I loving screamed, those things are horrific. Spectres gave me the same feeling. Really? Sectopods are bigass goofy looking AT-ST looking things, Gatekeepers are pokeballs and Andromedons are diving suits.
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Apr 10, 2018 11:20
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I never really thought any of the aliens in any iteration of XCOM were scary. Except Apocalypse's brainsuckers. gently caress those guys. EDIT: I guess Apocalypse is your go-to if you want a XCOM with bizarre aliens that follow a theme. Otherwise XCOM has always been a grab bag. Fangz fucked around with this message at 11:25 on Apr 10, 2018 |
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Apr 10, 2018 11:22
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Fangz posted:I never really thought any of the aliens in any iteration of XCOM were scary. Except Apocalypse's brainsuckers. gently caress those guys. Chryssalids in the original X-Com were pretty loving scary once you understood what they could do("That thing looks like a bulky black sectoid and it's running towards me, that's weird. Wait. It's still moving? Well at least my tank is in front. Oh god, did it just punch my loving tank???"). Most of TFTD's cast is relatively scary because of how hosed you are in general in that game and most of the autopsies in that game are basically body horror fanfiction.
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Apr 10, 2018 11:59
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I thought the Chryssalids etc were scary one time when they surprised you with their capabilities but after that become quite manageable. They are hardly a threat once you get flying power armour going. Brainsuckers, well... they are scary with their headhumping animation they do which always seems long enough that you panic trying to shoot it off but too short for you to actually do so, they are consistently threatening no matter what you have equipped, and *they spawn from the inventories of dead enemies*. So the only way to be safe is to pick the pods up off the ground, and now you have a guy carrying brainsucker pods, and well, if that guy ever gets shot or falls unconscious for some reason.... EDIT: I read the UFOpaedia and WHAT THE gently caress quote:If a zombie is under X-Com mind control and it is killed, the hatched Chryssalid will be considered to be under 'alien' mind control that turn. When the turn ends, you will gain permanent control of the Chryssalid for the rest of the battle. Fangz fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Apr 10, 2018 |
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Apr 10, 2018 12:09
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To be entirely fair, absolutely nothing is a threat in X-Com 1 once you get flying power armor going on because at that point you pretty much have infinite money and resources and your response to every mission can be to level it with explosives and hose any survivors that crawl out of the flaming wreckage with infinite heavy plasma rounds. The downward difficulty curve is built into the DNA of the franchise. They're pretty consistently terrifying when you run into them and you've got a couple of laser rifles on your sergeants and your rookies are still using rifles and autocannon. Brainsuckers are pretty scary as long as you're not playing on real time, at which point massed overwatch fire trivializes them.
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Apr 10, 2018 12:29
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dogstile posted:Really? Sectopods are bigass goofy looking AT-ST looking things, Gatekeepers are pokeballs and Andromedons are diving suits. I'm in the camp that they're scary because of what they do and not what they look like. XCOM comes off as a game that you're not actually supposed to win. Yes, there is a win condition, and yes people get to it, but you're supposed to fail, and give it another go. The problem with that is there's only so much room for surprise, you can only encounter an Andromedon for the first time once.
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Apr 10, 2018 12:37
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For enemy variety the new XCOM games are missing a lot in the 4+ legs department. Xcom2 has Chryssalids but that's about it. Or if we extend that to non-bipedal locomotion in general we get Even a bear on a quadbike or a giant spider wearing roller skates would at least be different, though they might not work too well in cover-based-tactics games. Though morphological variation can also lead to goofiness like the hexapod heavy artillery mechs in Chromehounds, which may or may not be a good thing.  The Biggest Jerk posted:It'd be interesting to see bonuses to aim from pincer attacks and maybe even give every unit suppression as a default skill. Another thing was having friendly fire, but allowing soldiers to fire over a crouched/nearby ally. Which led me to a lot of dumb shenanigans such as shieldwall+machinegun peekaboo.
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Apr 10, 2018 12:53
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The Skeleton King posted:Also, gently caress Archons. Dodge: grazed is the most bullshit thing ever. XCOM accuracy is tough enough, I don't need enemies getting to roll a second dice to decide if I actually put a dent in their huge pile of hit points. Archons bothered me a ton on my first playthrough, but by my second and onwards, I had shifted my strategy such that I was always getting one or two decent psi troopers by the time they showed up, and Soulfire / Void Rift / Null Lance screw archons pretty hard. I also started gradually moving from explosive-specced grenadiers to gun-specced, and Hail of Bullets utterly wrecks archons.... especially if you have Holotargeting for follow-up, as well.
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Apr 10, 2018 14:33
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Archon's aren't scary offensively enough for me to really worry about them. I just plug them with my poison faceoff gunslinger and focus on other Advent.
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Apr 10, 2018 14:40
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It's month two, two countries chickened out of MecCOM, I never have enough meld, training roulette means no medics, I just finished Gangplank (eat poo poo Cyberdick), Europe and South America are losing their poo poo, and I'll probably be at four nations out at the end of May. I rushed to four uplinks so whoever doesn't bail is safe, but my air game is basically two guys in Biplanes confused about when the Kaiser got lasers. I loving love Enemy Unknown
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Apr 10, 2018 15:00
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Serephina posted:Advent mooks die in two shots, and that's fine. Past early game, you're expected to have more exotic tools at your disposal than taking pot shots with a rifle and expecting them to one-hit things. As an example, shotgun flank hits. shotgun flank hits aren't always effective as they should be, and i don't like having to risk soldiers because i have to keep flanking every advent rear end in a top hat because they won't die otherwise. I don't care if the bigger, more interesting guys bog me down, but when the basic chumps can kill you in 3 shots and their captain can double their accuracy and has more health than a muton for some reason and there's that rear end in a top hat with a shield generator and 4 armor and I need my shredder guns firing at everyone else's armor because shield guy is hiding half a mile away and there's the stupid XBOX nanobot guy disabling one of your guys, I feel like being able to potshot the two chump-troopers isn't exactly negating any challenges. And then there's that loving Archon who isnt exactly dangerous but god drat is he going to survive for days because he's apparently covered in grease. I don't know man. I've played EW long war and never got this upset, even though I did have to edit the ini for certain things that I was NOT going to put up with because long war did have some bullshit that i cannot believe a human being would enjoy. I guess i could start another campaign and try to do things differently, but I don't want to have to sit through every enemy intro and forced "stop and listen to the same poo poo" thing again.
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Apr 10, 2018 17:42
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The Skeleton King posted:Also advent troopers get way too much hp after they scale up. Fuckers should never have more than HP than one less than your maximum damage on your assault rifle or assault rifle equivalent. Leave the sponging to the big fuckers like berserkers and andromedons. I don't need sectoids and scrub troopers and vipers and every fucker in the universe being built like a tank. This bothers me too, especially because on later missions you get a full cast of alien looking motherfuckers and like, one single advent soldier. I want the game to keep them at their regular hp and then absolutely poo poo large numbers of them at me. They're a regular active military force, if they aren't fielding their heavy alien troops like andromedons and poo poo they need to put out more regular advent. I was watching one of my friends play EU and I was so envious of his large numbers of regular enemies rather than a small smattering of beefy enemies. Even the Show of Force has me wanting more. I think Show of Force needs to be the standard and then actual SoF needs to be made BIGGER.
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Apr 10, 2018 17:57
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dogstile posted:Really? Sectopods are bigass goofy looking AT-ST looking things, Gatekeepers are pokeballs and Andromedons are diving suits. It isn't what they look like that worries me. Those "goofy looking AT-ST looking things" can potentially destroy two of your guys A TURN and those "pokeballs" can raise the loving dead and unleash a fuckbeam that can gib the gently caress out of your guys. You don't have to be consumed with terror over looks, they will MAKE you fear them by displaying what they can do to you. Also I'm sure if you were one of the poor fuckers on the ground doing the dirty work you'd be shittin right in your pants. Edit: Andromedons will poo poo inside of you with that big loving glob of acid attack, and their aint poo poo you can do about it RIP your SPARKS. The Velvet Witch fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Apr 10, 2018 |
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Apr 10, 2018 18:00
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