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It's been a while, so I don't remember why I got this perception but my memory of it was that O'Brien left the Jagana question open enough that you could definitely see them sleeping together (she's 'under his protection,' almost) but implied that Diana had gotten tired of banging dudes as a pathway to influence and instead just kept Jag at arms' length. I remember coming away from a discussion that she and Stephen had with the perspective that she never slept with Jagiello not because of any concern about Stephen or morality or anything, but just because she was past that point of her life. The alternate interpretation is that of course they slept together, but Stephen never challenged Jagiello because he blamed himself for Diana's departure and Jag didn't attempt to control Diana. I never got the impression that it was Diana's sleeping around per se that led to Stephen challenging her lovers - it was them not making room for him in her life. When Stephen shows up and explains himself there's never any thought that she'd stay with Jagiello.
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Apr 3, 2018 22:40
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Also Jagiello is kind of a goofball, which strikes me as not Diana's type. She definitely has a thing for influential men.
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Apr 4, 2018 02:21
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When she denies sleeping with Jagiello she says that when she first went away with him he clearly expected she wanted him as much as all the other girls (I think she mentions him smirking when she tells him she doesn't want his dick), but that after a while of her not throwing herself at him he gets used to the idea. I think at this point Diana would consider sleeping with a man she openly traveled with to be gauche, as opposed to a deniable secret affair.
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Apr 4, 2018 19:39
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Post Captain posted:The horse slowed to a walk -- the bean fed horse, as it proved by a thunderous, long, long fart. Re-re-re-reading Post Captain and yall are crazy, the on shore parts are great fun.
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Apr 7, 2018 09:09
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Some of the best passages revolve around Babbington.Master and Commander posted:"Mr. Babbington," he said, suddenly stopping in his up and down. "Take your hands out of your pockets. When did you last write home?" Mr. Babbington was at an age when almost any question evokes a guilty response, and this was, in fact, a valid accusation. He reddened, and said, "I don't know, sir." "Think, sir, think," said Jack, his good-tempered face clouding unexpectedly..."Never, mind. Write a handsome letter. Two pages at least. And send it in to me with your daily workings tomorrow. Give your father my compliments and tell him my bankers are Hoares."
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Apr 7, 2018 15:01
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I'm up to Reverse of the Medal and yow it's hard to read some parts of this It's like Fate kicking a golden retriever puppy
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Apr 7, 2018 15:07
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MeatwadIsGod posted:Some of the best passages revolve around Babbington. <--------
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Apr 7, 2018 15:35
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MeatwadIsGod posted:Some of the best passages revolve around Babbington. Most bankers are "Hoares"
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Apr 7, 2018 20:13
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I love Jagiello.
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Apr 7, 2018 21:54
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I'm up to Reverse of the Medal and yow it's hard to read some parts of this The climax of the book is the best of the whole series though. Probably my favorite moment in any book I've ever read.
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Apr 8, 2018 04:02
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An interesting thing I discovered recently is that during the Napoleonic Wars a surgeon on a British man of war was the 2nd highest paid person on the ship after the captain. Potentially far more than a 1st lieutenant or master. It’s conceivable that a senior surgeon on a 3rd or 4th rate may have had a higher income than its captain as surgeons were paid by seniority and captains by the seniority of their command. Leads me to think that surgeons on ship were probably treated with a lot of deference by even the commissioned officers. It’s hard to come it high over someone when the service values them more than you by a considerable margin.
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Apr 9, 2018 01:55
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Murgos posted:It’s hard to come it high over someone when the service values them more than you by a considerable margin. That aside, there's a more subtle issue similar to a parent-child relationship that even a captain lacks sufficient knowledge to know precisely what the surgeon is doing. At least with a crew, you have a chance of realizing you'll be killed in action by your own men if you pay attention. When it comes to the physical line, however, you might well be unconscious when someone who doesn't like you decides accidentally (on purpose) that other patients are a higher priority. And then there's the simple power held even by one as tiny and unimposing as Stephen Maturin, as he said to Jack, "Remove your trousers and bend over that table".
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Apr 10, 2018 04:50
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Raskolnikov2089 posted:The climax of the book is the best of the whole series though. Probably my favorite moment in any book I've ever read. It's powerful, but. . . tutti contenti, saremo cosi . . .
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Apr 10, 2018 05:57
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Murgos posted:An interesting thing I discovered recently is that during the Napoleonic Wars a surgeon on a British man of war was the 2nd highest paid person on the ship after the captain. Potentially far more than a 1st lieutenant or master. That's very interesting, given the way Stephen takes offense whenever someone confuses him, a physician, with a "mere surgeon", who's barely half a step above a butcher in his view.
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Apr 10, 2018 13:35
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Just read The Golden Ocean. I recall it being mentioned here before, but it was a pleasant surprise, especially since I'd previously read The Road to Samarkand and not particularly enjoyed it. Ocean really was very much in the vein of the Aubrey-Maturin books, except from the point of view of a midshipman, and at a time when the British were less at home in the open ocean. In fact, I might suggest it as a gateway book into the Aubrey-Maturin series for new readers who might balk at a 20 book series. The book is short, wraps up nicely, and has more of a normal narrative structure than Master and Commander, which had all those slightly jarring jumps in plot. Also, Aubrey and particularly Maturin take a little time to get going character-wise, while the protagonists of Ocean are charming right off the bat. There is still the issue of the abundant nautical jargon, but Ocean seems to wallow in it less than Aubrey-Maturin does, and I think it's more obvious that the details aren't important, partly because the narrative viewpoint belongs to someone lower down the totem pole.
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Apr 30, 2018 03:54
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Murgos posted:Leads me to think that surgeons on ship were probably treated with a lot of deference by even the commissioned officers. It’s hard to come it high over someone when the service values them more than you by a considerable margin. I think it's more that you don't want the guy who will be standing over your unconscious body with a bone saw in his hands to have a grudge against you.
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Apr 30, 2018 05:06
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ZekeNY posted:That's very interesting, given the way Stephen takes offense whenever someone confuses him, a physician, with a "mere surgeon", who's barely half a step above a Fixed that.
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May 2, 2018 18:15
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I'm about halfway through Desolation Island and man I wish Bonden would've gotten an entire novel to himself. His effortless poo poo-talking, his humoring Stephen's pretensions as an old hand at sea...Probably my third favorite character in the series so far.
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May 11, 2018 06:07
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Barrett Bonden Fuckin Owns
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May 11, 2018 06:29
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So the point of his post-fight transformation wasn't brain damage or recovery from brain damage, it was "now that you've literally seen me at my best and worst, maybe I can drop the loyal servant routine? No, you're still a huge classist rear end in a top hat? Ok".
Xander77 fucked around with this message at 07:51 on May 11, 2018 |
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May 11, 2018 07:16
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Bonden spoilers I can never forgive how towards the end of the books (can't remember which one) Bonden is just unceremoniously killed by a cannonball and everyone just immediately moves on with hardly a comment or moment of reflection.
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May 11, 2018 14:38
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Class Warcraft posted:Bonden spoilers Supposedly this book was written around the time POB's wife died, which would explain the "oh gently caress it" attitude toward the deaths of some major characters. Who knows though, POB was happy to jump between months and oceans in the space of a single sentence. Why not give it a try with life and death?
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May 12, 2018 03:01
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Class Warcraft posted:Bonden spoilers That is how virtually every death in the books is handled. In battle, one doesn't have time to mourn.
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May 12, 2018 03:03
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I seem to recall that Jack later talks about "grieving [Bonden's death] extremely" or something along those lines. But yeah, what withak said above.
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May 12, 2018 09:55
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These are military men with long careers though. Lots of people around them died.
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May 12, 2018 20:23
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I haven't been able to figure out which historical action the cutting out of the Diane was based on. Jack got hella paid for that one, I'm wondering what the historical figure got. Does anyone know ?
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May 12, 2018 23:48
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mllaneza posted:I haven't been able to figure out which historical action the cutting out of the Diane was based on. Jack got hella paid for that one, I'm wondering what the historical figure got. Does anyone know ? Probably Edward Pellew. Cochrane gets all the love but there's a lot of Pellew in Jack's actions.
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May 13, 2018 01:46
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Raskolnikov2089 posted:Probably Edward Pellew. Cochrane gets all the love but there's a lot of Pellew in Jack's actions. One day when tracing through an action to see who was really involved I came across a link to short summary of one of the captains careers. Over his long career he took many prizes and was involved in numbers of single ship and fleet actions and was wounded many times and described as being pretty much covered in scar tissue. Made admiral in 1847. Just another Napoleonic era sea captain in the RN. e: Found it, Josiah Willoughby who actually captained the Neriede during the Mauritius campaign https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/A_Naval_Biographical_Dictionary/Willoughby,_Nesbit_Josiah Murgos fucked around with this message at 20:24 on May 17, 2018 |
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May 17, 2018 20:02
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Wow, what a life. It’s crazy reading about people like that because it’s like whoa there really were some Jack Aubreys out there.
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May 18, 2018 18:11
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Ok, I'm now certain that we meet stephen's father.quote:Stephen laughed with pleasure, an odd grating sound; and after a while he said ‘She will learn Spanish too, Castellano. I am sorry it will not be Catalan, a much finer, older, purer, more mellifluous language, with far greater writers - think of En Ramón Llull - but as Captain Aubrey often says “You cannot both have a stitch in time and eat it.” I mean to take you - or rather to send you under escort, since I cannot leave the ship - to the Benedictine house in Avila, where an aunt of my father’s is Abbess, and where Dr Llers will be at hand. It is the easiest and kindest of disciplines there; the nuns are gentlewomen and several of them and the pensionnaires are English of the old Catholic families, or Irish; they have an excellent choir; and the convent owns three of the finest vineyards in Spain. I intend Padeen to go with you as your servant and as a continual source of springing life for Brideen. You will not be lonely there; and though your life may be rather dull, it will be safe.’ quote:‘But Colonel don Patricio FitzGerald y Saavedra is still with us, I trust?’ We know that Stephen's father is an Irish lord serving in the Spanish military; Colonel don Patricio FitzGerald y Saavedra fits that bill; but more importantly, Stephen and Stephen's father and Colonel don Patricio FitzGerald y Saavedra all have the same aunt. Theoretically, the good Colonel could still be Stephen's father's brother, but then they would refer to each other as "uncle" or "nephew" respectively, not the euphemistic "cousin." I've been nursing this theory for years and now it's proven! Huzzah! I am proud.
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Jun 4, 2018 00:29
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ok, I'm now certain that we meet stephen's father. They could be 2nd cousins and refer to her as "Aunt" instead of "Great-Aunt", which would probably be more likely than calling father & son cousin, especially since Stephen is referring to his great aunt as "Aunt" here. (Or they could be cousins once removed. OR have a weird incestuous circular family tree.)
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Jun 4, 2018 17:32
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Lockback posted:They could be 2nd cousins and refer to her as "Aunt" instead of "Great-Aunt", which would probably be more likely than calling father & son cousin, especially since Stephen is referring to his great aunt as "Aunt" here. Yeah, that's a fair point that technically there are some weird permutations where everyone involved could still be cousins and have the same great-aunt and then use "Aunt" as shorthand. Still though I think euphemistic useage of "cousin" for "father / son" is much more directly implied here, especially given narrative context. Stephen's taking his daughter to see her granddad.
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Jun 4, 2018 17:42
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That’s very good.
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Jun 4, 2018 19:27
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In The Far Side of the World Dr. Butcher is telling Martin about how he is a master of trephination and states that, "Mrs Butcher complained continuously of headaches and I trephined her and she hasn't complained since." For some reason I just always accepted this as he cured her, it took my until my 5th (?) reread to get it. Also, how utterly horrible.
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Jun 12, 2018 19:07
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Murgos posted:For some reason I just always accepted this as he cured her, it took my until my 5th (?) reread to get it.
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Jun 15, 2018 19:15
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Murgos posted:In The Far Side of the World Dr. Butcher is telling Martin about how he is a master of trephination and states that, Holy balls that's dark Xander77 posted:Are you assuming he killed / lobotomized her? The implication of that reading is she was complaining of headaches to avoid sex - that's an old old joke -- and that the trephination either removed her ability to complain or else terrified her into compliance. The other, more benign reading is his wife had a head problem and he helped her get better Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Jun 15, 2018 |
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Jun 15, 2018 19:33
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Obviously she learned that if she complains then she gets a hole drilled in her skull so she stopped complaining.
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Jun 15, 2018 19:48
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withak posted:Obviously she learned that if she complains then she gets a hole drilled in her skull so she stopped complaining. Yeah this was my reading. Strapped to a chair, probably gagged, scalp cut open to the bone, a hole cut in the skull with a saw and then a plate nailed over it and sewn up. While conscious.
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Jun 16, 2018 00:16
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Don’t forget her scalp hanging over her face.
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Jun 16, 2018 01:33
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I think you are all far too morbid. Trepanation was something very successfully used to cure people since the stone age (and with a apparently surprisingly high success rate even back then). Someone famous for curing many people with this technique hardly would mean it as a threat to his wife but most likely and earnestly used it to heal her/thinks he healed her from her ailment.
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Jun 16, 2018 06:37
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