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jivjov posted:I like how the Dresden short stories are handled. They get referenced from time to time in the main books, but if you haven't read them, they're just "this thing Harry did off screen" Yeah, exactly. You don’t need to know the details about Bigfoot or the Svartalf to follow along with the main story
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Apr 7, 2018 06:49
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Amazon recommended The Hum and the Shiver to me. What are the thread's thoughts on it? Is it even Urban Fantasy? It wasn't at all clear from the synopsis.
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Apr 10, 2018 15:20
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Was wondering the other day if a new Schaefer was coming out this summer. Email today to say new Faust is out now. Machine. Didn't see much talk of Sworn to the Night. I really enjoyed it, especially after the pretty abysmal last Harmony Black.
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Apr 10, 2018 20:34
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Junkenstein posted:Was wondering the other day if a new Schaefer was coming out this summer. Email today to say new Faust is out now. Machine. Thanks for this! Clicked immediately and now I have something to dive into after I finish up this Sandman Slim book.
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Apr 10, 2018 20:37
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Junkenstein posted:Was wondering the other day if a new Schaefer was coming out this summer. Email today to say new Faust is out now. Machine. Thanks for the heads up!
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Apr 10, 2018 21:43
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Blasphemeral posted:Amazon recommended The Hum and the Shiver to me. What are the thread's thoughts on it? Is it even Urban Fantasy? It wasn't at all clear from the synopsis. That’s the “Tufa” books, right? More like Rural Fantasy. They’re pretty decent, short reads.
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Apr 10, 2018 21:54
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Junkenstein posted:Was wondering the other day if a new Schaefer was coming out this summer. Email today to say new Faust is out now. Machine. I didn't know the new Faust was out yet, and what's more: I didn't realize Sworn to the Night was even a thing. Thanks! navyjack posted:That’s the “Tufa” books, right? More like Rural Fantasy. They’re pretty decent, short reads. Yep, that's them. Alrighty, I might give them a shot. Anyone else checked them out and want to weigh in? What was good/bad?
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Apr 10, 2018 22:27
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Junkenstein posted:Didn't see much talk of Sworn to the Night. I really enjoyed it, especially after the pretty abysmal last Harmony Black. Turns out I bought that on Kindle, but never got around to reading it and forgot about it.
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Apr 11, 2018 00:38
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The sex dream in Skin Game is the most cringe inducing thing he has ever written. Maybe. Ugh.
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Apr 11, 2018 15:26
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Waltzing Along posted:Sex is gross unless I'm having it or it matches exactly what I want in my own fantasies. No one else should ever write about it, no matter how much it may or may not play into the plot or mindset of the characters. Maybe. Ugh.
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Apr 11, 2018 16:21
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Oh, gently caress off people are allowed to have their own opinions. The sex scene was just weird, especially in a Dresden novel that usually doesn't get that graphic.
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Apr 11, 2018 17:44
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Exmond posted:Oh, gently caress off people are allowed to have their own opinions. Wasn't it written by Butcher's ex-wife, who is a Romance writer, or do I misremember? Edit: Duh, no, Skin Game was long after their divorce, was maybe some earlier scene. Decius fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Apr 11, 2018 |
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Apr 11, 2018 18:03
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Decius posted:Wasn't it written by Butcher's ex-wife, who is a Romance writer, or do I misremember? You're thinking of the werewolf murder orgy and the Susan bondage loving.
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Apr 11, 2018 18:29
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biracial bear for uncut posted:You're thinking of the werewolf murder orgy and the Susan bondage loving. There was a werewolf murder orgy? It's sad that the bondage was still better written than the Skin Game wet dream. I could force myself through the former but just rolled my eyes and skipped through the latter
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Apr 11, 2018 19:03
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Yeah, the bad feds with enchanted wolf pelts started loving while eating someone and Dresden ran away to get help or something. I don't remember all of the details about Fool Moon but I remember that being in there.
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Apr 11, 2018 19:33
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The sex scene in Skin Game wasn't the high water mark for the series or anything, but I've ready waaaaaaaaay worse. I was honestly more annoyed by the way Spoilers for a five year old book, I guess, Lasciel, who'd been built up over the course of numerous novels as an interesting and complex character with a mind and agenda of her own, even aside from the ways Lash presumably diverged from her personality, ended up all WHY DON'T YOU LOOOOOOOOOOVE ME RRAAAAAAAAARGH.
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Apr 11, 2018 19:55
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docbeard posted:... Maybe she was infected with Nemesis, whose notable trait is that he makes you what you're not. She was known as the most complex and plotting of the Denarians so, naturally, she becomes cliche and unable to plot/run a descent plan.
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Apr 11, 2018 20:01
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Blasphemeral posted:Maybe she was infected with Nemesis, whose notable trait is that he makes you what you're not. She was known as the most complex and plotting of the Denarians so, naturally, she becomes cliche and unable to plot/run a descent plan. I think that may have been more Asher being psycho than Lash being incompetent. Favorite moment in the series is still "my friend" and the whole scene outside the Carpenters house.
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Apr 12, 2018 05:48
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Yeah, the bad feds with enchanted wolf pelts started loving while eating someone and Dresden ran away to get help or something. I don't remember all of the details about Fool Moon but I remember that being in there. Ah jeez I'd forgotten all about that one. While I reread the series frequently, I always start with Grave Peril. Storm Front wasn't that bad but werewolves seem to be really hard to do well
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Apr 12, 2018 06:43
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When I had my wife read the series, I had her read Storm Front but skip Fool Moon, because I knew there's no way she'd keep reading the series even if I insisted it got better. No regrets.
thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Apr 12, 2018 |
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Apr 12, 2018 12:33
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Blasphemeral posted:Maybe she was infected with Nemesis, whose notable trait is that he makes you what you're not. She was known as the most complex and plotting of the Denarians so, naturally, she becomes cliche and unable to plot/run a descent plan. My read on it was she was thrown seriously off-kilter by the existence of Lash and what happened. I have a hunch that Lasciel was originally an angel of love, and that Lash died in accordance with her original purpose from God. That has to throw a Denarian for one hell of a loop. And I could easily see that having metaphysical aftershock effects on Lasciel herself.
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Apr 12, 2018 18:50
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Still hoping Harry asks Uriel at some point about the metaphysical disposition of whatever constitutes Lash’s soul. Like did the cognitive shadow return to heaven after her redemption. Did she gain angelic status on death but as a new entity? Or did Lash perma-die to gave birth to the new intellect spirit, which may have a soul?
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Apr 12, 2018 20:40
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Blasphemeral posted:Maybe she was infected with Nemesis, whose notable trait is that he makes you what you're not. She was known as the most complex and plotting of the Denarians so, naturally, she becomes cliche and unable to plot/run a descent plan. I’m still of the opinion that “Nemesis” was the downright worst plot development Butcher could have chosen. There’s nothing interesting about going “Remember that character who might have had interesting motivations for villainy way back when? Well turns out they were brainwashed by an unknowable, evil cosmic force all along! Surprise!”
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Apr 13, 2018 03:30
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I still think that Nemesis is not going to be what we think it is.
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Apr 13, 2018 03:39
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jivjov posted:I still think that Nemesis is not going to be what we think it is. I still think it's Dresden/touched Dresden.  Mars4523 posted:Alternatively, Butcher is terrible at writing women and just couldn’t stop himself from turning a complex schemer into a deranged, “Woman Scorned” sex demon. It's been shown that Nemesis doesn't necessarily hijack someone entirely. It can just nudge them off-center, or motivate/allow them to act outside of their normal constraints. I dunno. I think it's neat. 
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Apr 13, 2018 03:53
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Reading the new Craig Schaefer Daniel Faust book. One thing I like about Faust is, he’s a criminal, and a pretty bad guy. And they don’t really sugar coat it. He doesn’t go out of his way to gently caress people over or hurt anybody who doesn’t need hurting, but...if you need hosed over or hurt, there’s no “ooh, my morality is troubled by this, what line is too far to cross?” It’s a nice change from Dresden, I guess, who will do bad poo poo but just feel awful about it. And often as not come up with some bullshit justification for why it was actually a good and right thing.
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Apr 13, 2018 07:24
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navyjack posted:It’s a nice change from Dresden, I guess, who will do bad poo poo but just feel awful about it. And often as not come up with some bullshit justification for why it was actually a good and right thing. and then his friends will tell him 'hey its okay you did what needed to be done', and then occasionally yahweh himself will descend from the heavens to tell him "ya dun good, kid, attaboy"
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Apr 13, 2018 07:30
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I'm about half way through the 1st Rivers of London book and liking it a lot so far! I like how Peter is actively researching and finding out how stuff works while still being completely in the dark about more powerful magic. It's also kind of refreshing that nobody is pressuring him to keep everything a secret. It's common sense that the general public will just think you're crazy, so only talk about magic with people how are likely to be ok with it. Otherwise just don't.
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Apr 13, 2018 07:37
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Ugh...trying to read Fool Moon. I hear people say to skip it, and I definitely should have, but now I don't even know if I want to continue. Is Dresden as transparently a cringe-worthy neckbeard power fantasy? I enjoyed the first book well enough, but every few pages of this thing I can't help but wince and I am worried that this might be all part of this series.
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Apr 13, 2018 15:33
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Inspector 34 posted:I'm about half way through the 1st Rivers of London book and liking it a lot so far! I like how Peter is actively researching and finding out how stuff works while still being completely in the dark about more powerful magic. Yeah, I genuinely like the "no one really likes to talk about magic but it is an openly and officially (if quietly) acknowledged thing" aspect of the series.
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Apr 13, 2018 15:39
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Lake Jucas posted:Ugh...trying to read Fool Moon. I hear people say to skip it, and I definitely should have, but now I don't even know if I want to continue. Is Dresden as transparently a cringe-worthy neckbeard power fantasy? I enjoyed the first book well enough, but every few pages of this thing I can't help but wince and I am worried that this might be all part of this series. Jim Butcher openly admits that his first couple Dresden books aren't that great and basically are published versions of student novels. The writing gets much better in later books. Harry Dresden as a character does trend toward the cringy power fantasy..but the secondary characters will regularly call him out on this, and Harry does grow and evolve as the series progresses. Fool Moon is probably the worst book of the series; but I highly recommend you stick it out and make it to Grave Peril
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Apr 13, 2018 15:42
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You can also just drop it and skip to Grave Peril now Harry and Susan hook up, the wolf kids show up later, the belts are a minor plot point and the next book starts in media res with characters new to the series and doesn't mention anything from Fool Moon anyway so you're fine and now you can be free~
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Apr 13, 2018 15:50
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M_Gargantua posted:Still hoping Harry asks Uriel at some point about the metaphysical disposition of whatever constitutes Lash’s soul. Like did the cognitive shadow return to heaven after her redemption. Did she gain angelic status on death but as a new entity? Or did Lash perma-die to gave birth to the new intellect spirit, which may have a soul? If he did ask Uriel--given the disposition of God in this universe and everything Uriel has shown so far--Uriel would most likely answer, "I cannot reveal to you what happens to someone after they die." Part of faith is not knowing. navyjack posted:It's a nice change from Dresden, I guess, who will do bad poo poo but just feel awful about it. And often as not come up with some bullshit justification for why it was actually a good and right thing. ... except this is a very believable and real behavior? People do this all the time in real-life. Like, constantly. awesmoe posted:and then his friends will tell him 'hey its okay you did what needed to be done', and And real people do this, too. It's a thing friends are for, in fact, and why even really messed-up people often keep friends around--to convince themselves that they're not a monster (even if they are). awesmoe posted:then occasionally yahweh himself will descend from the heavens to tell him "ya dun good, kid, attaboy" This does bug me a bit, though. You're right, there. It's a bit too heavy-handed. It should be left more open whether or not Dresden's "doing good" by cosmic daddy. See my first point in this post.
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Apr 13, 2018 16:02
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"It's a bit too heavy-handed" is, frankly, the basis for nearly every complaint about the series. Rarely does anything "problematic" (for those that care about such things) about the series stray further than that. Except for Fool Moon, which is just bad.
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Apr 13, 2018 16:16
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Eh, Uriel and the Knights' attitude is usually more "Not my place to judge. I know you're trying to do the right thing and you're generally a good person, and I have faith that God will see it that way." It's a religious person comforting a friend, that's how it usually goes in real life, too.
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Apr 13, 2018 16:21
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At it's best, ("the Warrior") Dresden has a surprisingly nuanced depiction of ethics. At worst though (Murphy telling Dresden he's a good person when he isn't) yeah it's just back-patting. I like the Alex Verus series because it doesn't flinch in that regard. Verus has done bad things and he carries the consequences of them and there are no easy retreats.
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Apr 14, 2018 20:16
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I like the Alex Verus series because it doesn't flinch in that regard. Verus has done bad things and he carries the consequences of them and there are no easy retreats. The later books start to clear this up a little and make it clear it's pretty much one guy with a massive amount of political power who hates him specifically and has been pulling strings behind the scenes, but for a while it was just him being a visible punching bag over and over. Come to think, it's exactly the problems I had with mindspace investigations. Bhodi fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Apr 14, 2018 |
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Apr 14, 2018 20:37
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Bhodi posted:Although, Alex gets raked over the coals in a world where people kill each other and blow up buildings all the damned time. It's a ridiculous double standard where him killing someone in his youth weirdly poisons absolutely everyone against him, which would be fine except that it's the most hypocritical thing ever because everyone else is also taking massive advantage of magic and mauling/killing people and he's the only one snubbed, everyone else seems to maintain relationships, diplomatic and otherwise. That's a legit critique to an extent but I think he makes it work in the setting if you accept the convention that in practice almost everyone in the setting is morally feral, and his practical mistake wasn't a moral one, it was strategic. If Alex were willing to play the "Light" side political games, or willing to go full Dark Chosen, either one, he might be doing ok (for a given value of OK). It's that he's trying to go his own way that's really causing him the problems.
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Apr 14, 2018 20:44
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:That's a legit critique to an extent but I think he makes it work in the setting if you accept the convention that in practice almost everyone in the setting is morally feral, and his practical mistake wasn't a moral one, it was strategic. Because there are no other public examples, it really feels like a persecution complex only the world is actually out to get him, rather than being just another victim of an unjust/inflexible set of laws made by a corrupt council. Which I think was the intent. Bhodi fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Apr 15, 2018 |
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Apr 14, 2018 20:50
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Bhodi posted:Although, Alex gets raked over the coals in a world where people kill each other and blow up buildings all the damned time. It's a ridiculous double standard where him killing someone in his youth weirdly poisons absolutely everyone against him, which would be fine except that it's the most hypocritical thing ever because everyone else is also taking massive advantage of magic and mauling/killing people and he's the only one snubbed. Everyone else seems to maintain relationships, diplomatic and otherwise. Verus' troubles with the Council don't come from his past, except in that being ex-Dark means that he gets treated like an ex-convict. They come from his unwillingness to pick a side and play the game. Aside from Sonder, how many Light mages do you see really wringing their hands about that stuff? I mean, the general reaction to the whole Nightstalker revenge thing is "Some people you wronged a while back wanted revenge and wouldn't settle things peacefully, so you had to whack 'em. Oh well. That happens sometimes.  ".The place where his past actions carry consequences is with his friends and allies, who aren't all willing to just pat him on the back and tell him he's a good guy.
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