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Metal Geir Skogul posted:Uhh, no they don't. That's clearly how LORD OF BOOTY understood it and I've definitely seen it used that way before, unless your beef with me is saying "a lot" instead of "some"
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Apr 11, 2018 00:41
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Stupidest derail
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Apr 11, 2018 00:42
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Working at Disney, at least about 4 years ago, was 50% cultists who could not forsee a better life than working there who artificially depressed the wages of the other 50% who were slowly reduced to spending their days fantasizing how to kill Mickey Mouse. The vanishingly tiny group who move up in Disney are the part of the 50% who wanted to kill Mickey but now get their revenge by abusing every employee under them.
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Apr 11, 2018 00:43
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So it’s academia
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Apr 11, 2018 00:43
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Pick posted:So it’s academia No, just Academickia.
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Apr 11, 2018 01:23
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Barudak posted:Working at Disney, at least about 4 years ago, was 50% cultists who could not forsee a better life than working there who artificially depressed the wages of the other 50% who were slowly reduced to spending their days fantasizing how to kill Mickey Mouse. Wait. How did they reduce other people's wages? I'm having trouble visualizing it.
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Apr 11, 2018 10:42
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paradoxGentleman posted:Wait. How did they reduce other people's wages? "your hired" "oh, wow! WOW! absolutely! It's such an honor, this has been my lifelong dream, working for disney! I've wanted this since I was a child!" "we will pay you minimum wage then" "awesome! anything! I'll pay you!"
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Apr 11, 2018 13:49
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Exactly what Owl of Cream Cheese said. Then Disney leverages that against the people below by telling you to work harder, youre overpayed (taking a market pay for the job) while other people understand the commitment to Disney and produce equal work.
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Apr 11, 2018 14:52
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..That was rather obvious in hindsight. I'm sorry.
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Apr 11, 2018 16:11
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It's certainly a problem the video game industry has as well. You think you deserve better than the piss-poor working conditions that game companies offer? There's like twenty beaming-faced graduates eager to take the spot you're being offered. You will take it, or you will leave it; those are your options. Perhaps they might have it worse, since there's not really a video game developer union as yet (though there was a push for one at the last GDC a few weeks ago; we'll see where that goes, I guess). Not that I'm 100% sure how much of Disney's staff would be union, anyway. Actors for sure (SAG-AFTRA), but animators? IT guys? Random administrative clerks? Janitors?
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Apr 11, 2018 17:57
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"Toe the line" means to conform strictly to the rules. If someone uses it to mean "push the boundaries", they are using it wrong and are probably a big stupid dummy.
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Apr 11, 2018 18:05
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Or maybe language evolves and changes over time.
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Apr 11, 2018 18:07
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dogsicle posted:Or maybe language evolves and changes over time. That's like insisting that "inflammable" means "not flammable" because "language evolves and changes over time". No, it's just wrong.
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Apr 11, 2018 18:08
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Shadow Hog posted:Perhaps they might have it worse, since there's not really a video game developer union as yet (though there was a push for one at the last GDC a few weeks ago; we'll see where that goes, I guess). Not that I'm 100% sure how much of Disney's staff would be union, anyway. Actors for sure (SAG-AFTRA), but animators? IT guys? Random administrative clerks? Janitors? yeah there's animation guilds/unions - white collar jobs such as clerks generally don't since the assumption is their work conditions are going to be miles better than the more labor-intensive jobs. But yeah, there's something about Disney that attracts a lot of weird cultish behavior. I'm not sure who are the weirder fans, the adult princess fans, the ride-hogging "Gangs", or the Gravity Falls fans. Robindaybird fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Apr 11, 2018 |
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Apr 11, 2018 18:13
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Mechafunkzilla posted:That's like insisting that "inflammable" means "not flammable" because "language evolves and changes over time". No, it's just wrong. idk dude this is pedantic as hell and I think a single world like inflammable doesn't really work as an example in comparison to a more ambiguous idiom like toe the line. It could easily completely change meaning over time, since it already is a stage of being used "incorrectly" in colloquial settings. Fighting against that, and especially talking down to others because of it, seems dumb to me.
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Apr 11, 2018 18:17
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Shadow Hog posted:It's certainly a problem the video game industry has as well. You think you deserve better than the piss-poor working conditions that game companies offer? There's like twenty beaming-faced graduates eager to take the spot you're being offered. You will take it, or you will leave it; those are your options. Much like how Disney/Pixar have some of the worst pay and working conditions of a major animation studio while DreamWorks has some of the best and is actually unionized, Nintendo is infamous for making it's employees work so late that they have to sleep under their desks while ignoring the creative input of everyone but the oldest of the old guard while Ubisoft has some of the best pay and vacation time on top of letting their creators make small self-guided UbiArts passion projects between big games. Companies cultivate those images because they know they will get people to do more work for less money in the name of some nebulous idealism.
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Apr 11, 2018 18:26
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Shadow Hog posted:It's certainly a problem the video game industry has as well. You think you deserve better than the piss-poor working conditions that game companies offer? There's like twenty beaming-faced graduates eager to take the spot you're being offered. You will take it, or you will leave it; those are your options. I read an article recently about a high end law firm where the new kids had to pay the company for the privilege of working there as an interns.
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Apr 11, 2018 19:02
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dogsicle posted:idk dude this is pedantic as hell and I think a single world like inflammable doesn't really work as an example in comparison to a more ambiguous idiom like toe the line. It could easily completely change meaning over time, since it already is a stage of being used "incorrectly" in colloquial settings. Fighting against that, and especially talking down to others because of it, seems dumb to me. Aw, poo poo, more than X dummies are using a phrase to mean the exact opposite of what the phrase means, I guess we shouldn't try to educate them as to what the phrase means and instead accept that it can mean either thing and thus now means nothing at all
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Apr 11, 2018 19:47
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ALFbrot posted:Aw, poo poo, more than X dummies are using a phrase to mean the exact opposite of what the phrase means, I guess we shouldn't try to educate them as to what the phrase means and instead accept that it can mean either thing and thus now means nothing at all No no, they're totally correct. I'm using the phrase "totally correct" in the non-traditional sense of course, which means the opposite of what you old-fashioned squares think it does.  ("Old-fashioned squares" still means the same thing)
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Apr 11, 2018 19:53
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:I read an article recently about a high end law firm where the new kids had to pay the company for the privilege of working there as an interns. Researching the company brought up a lot of former customers who revealed that said company taught their students how to plagiarize things to fluff up their resumes and land jobs that they were woefully unequipped to handle, and that attempting to get out of that would have the company sue the student, claiming that the cost that said student paid was actually significantly cheaper than the actual cost of what was being offered and that they should've been grateful for the opportunity to even get into this scam artist scene. This would leave said student broke, under litigation, and stuck in California, potentially far away from their home. They left a voice message saying they'd approved me based on my interview and wanted me to call them back to move forward. I never did. This was back in 2010, but the job market has seemingly not gotten much better. I wonder if that scam company is still preying upon those in need like that?
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Apr 11, 2018 20:03
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Guy Mann posted:Nintendo is infamous for making it's employees work so late that they have to sleep under their desks while ignoring the creative input of everyone but the oldest of the old guard while This is innacurate. Nintendo never forced anyone to do this, it's something the employees did themselves. It's a Japanese work culture thing, which is a whole nother can of worms. Sakurai developed arthritis making the last Smash Bros and he's probably going to work himself to death working on the Switch one. And their current successes with Breath of the Wild and Super Mario Oddyssey took lots of input from the fresh new staff.
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Apr 11, 2018 20:06
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Never, ever follow your Dreams re: career.
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Apr 11, 2018 20:13
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dogsicle posted:Or maybe language evolves and changes over time. Literally.
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Apr 11, 2018 20:41
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Pick posted:Never, ever follow your Dreams re: career. I followed mine but my dreams were to become wealthy and have titles and positions that allowed me to offload my day to day responsibilities to underlings. Im not really sure what i “do” but its nice.
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Apr 11, 2018 21:34
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Shitpost
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Apr 11, 2018 21:40
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Barudak posted:I followed mine but my dreams were to become wealthy and have titles and positions that allowed me to offload my day to day responsibilities to underlings. Im not really sure what i “do” but its nice. the american dream 
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Apr 11, 2018 21:52
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Detective No. 27 posted:This is innacurate. Nintendo never forced anyone to do this, it's something the employees did themselves. It's a Japanese work culture thing, which is a whole nother can of worms. Sakurai developed arthritis making the last Smash Bros and he's probably going to work himself to death working on the Switch one. And their current successes with Breath of the Wild and Super Mario Oddyssey took lots of input from the fresh new staff. Recent success Splatoon was done almost entirely by a team of younger, newer guys.
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Apr 11, 2018 21:58
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Shitposting is my dream
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Apr 11, 2018 22:08
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Barudak posted:I followed mine but my dreams were to become wealthy and have titles and positions that allowed me to offload my day to day responsibilities to underlings. Im not really sure what i “do” but its nice. Are you hiring?
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Apr 11, 2018 23:04
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Barudak posted:Working at Disney, at least about 4 years ago, was 50% cultists who could not forsee a better life than working there who artificially depressed the wages of the other 50% who were slowly reduced to spending their days fantasizing how to kill Mickey Mouse. Did you work in their animation division or was this one of the corporate jobs where they call everyone "cast members"? Guy Mann posted:Much like how Disney/Pixar have some of the worst pay and working conditions of a major animation studio while DreamWorks has some of the best and is actually unionized, Nintendo is infamous for making it's employees work so late that they have to sleep under their desks while ignoring the creative input of everyone but the oldest of the old guard while Ubisoft has some of the best pay and vacation time on top of letting their creators make small self-guided UbiArts passion projects between big games. Companies cultivate those images because they know they will get people to do more work for less money in the name of some nebulous idealism. Disney/Pixar are both union shops and only one of Dreamwork's campuses (the one that still exists) is union. I have heard great things about working at Dreamworks though it's gotten worse now than they're offloading work to Mikros in Montreal and they're owned by Universal which has a more successful studio in Illumination/MacGuff. Ccs fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Apr 12, 2018 |
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Apr 12, 2018 01:09
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Animation Thread 2018: Never, ever follow your Dreams
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Apr 12, 2018 01:44
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Ccs posted:Did you work in their animation division or was this one of the corporate jobs where they call everyone "cast members"? Not me, and corporate marketing.
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Apr 12, 2018 02:20
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Barudak posted:Not me, and corporate marketing. I really wish I'd done corporate marketing, I speak well and am fast on my feet and friendly and have a very good boob:waist ratio, plus I love numbers and lying.
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Apr 12, 2018 02:51
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Detective No. 27 posted:This is innacurate. Nintendo never forced anyone to do this, it's something the employees did themselves. It's a Japanese work culture thing, which is a whole nother can of worms. Sakurai developed arthritis making the last Smash Bros and he's probably going to work himself to death working on the Switch one. And their current successes with Breath of the Wild and Super Mario Oddyssey took lots of input from the fresh new staff. Guy who actually worked at Nintendo: It was the craziest crunch time that I've ever experienced in my development career.
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Apr 12, 2018 04:39
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If we're that off-topic, everybody watch Neo Yokio, it's one of the only good things that's ever happened.
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Apr 12, 2018 04:43
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Animation Thread 2018: Never, ever follow your Dreams Dreamers are monsters https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bate_tvVUpk
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Apr 12, 2018 08:23
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Guy Mann posted:Guy who actually worked at Nintendo: It was the craziest crunch time that I've ever experienced in my development career. Like he said, it's not unique to Nintendo, and it's a side effect of a) a thing in Japanese work culture where you absolutely do not ever go home before the boss, and b) Miyamoto being some sort of insane sleepless robot that never goes home. Japanese labor culture is super super hosed and, while Nintendo isn't innocent of the problem, they also didn't exactly create it
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Apr 12, 2018 17:39
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:Like he said, it's not unique to Nintendo, and it's a side effect of a) a thing in Japanese work culture where you absolutely do not ever go home before the boss, and b) Miyamoto being some sort of insane sleepless robot that never goes home. and they're still nicer than a lot of companies that don't even pay workers properly for their overtime, and Konami that had practiced a lot of cruel shunning and other abusive behavior towards their development team (aside from Kojima's more famous exit, IGA was shuttled into the mobile development department but had basically not been allowed to work at all)
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Apr 12, 2018 19:10
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Read through a few Japanese tweets related to a paper cup animation about being an overworked salaryman and it gets really depressing. The first two responses are a high schooler telling the animator that they want to die before growing up and his response was that "Not all companies are like this, this is just a work of fiction." At a friend's wedding, two of his friends that he invited told him about how they were chastised for taking time off. They had accrued time off, but even then it was enough, at separate jobs, constant pressure about not "skipping out on work." It's definitely not something I would put Nintendo at the forefront of just to make a point that misses the larger context.
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Apr 12, 2018 19:15
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Crunch time is awful. I've been an animator for close to 4 years and only had 2 projects that had major crunch. The first was my first gig so I was fine to be working until 9 at night because i needed to get better. But the second project was lovely and I mostly ignored the overtime requests. The biggest toll was on the leads, some of whom worked 90 hour weeks for months. Thankfully we will never have that client again thanks to them being acquired by a rival conglomerate.
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Apr 12, 2018 23:53
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