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kid sinister posted:Nope, go ahead. BTW, were you swapping in GFCIs because you thought you didn't have a ground there and wanted legal 3 prong outlets there? No, one of the outlets was outdoors and the other two were in bathrooms within 6 feet of a water source.
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Apr 9, 2018 23:39
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Hey speaking of outlets - we rent, and almost all of the outlets in our house can barely hold a plug in place. Our property management company is doing a routine inspection this Thursday, and I was thinking of asking them to replace the loose outlets. Would I be correct in saying it is a fire hazard?
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Apr 10, 2018 17:23
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Yes you would. Plus, outlets are cheap. They wear out after a few decades.
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Apr 10, 2018 17:29
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Thanks. It occurred to me on my way into work that one of them is under my daughter's bed and it scared the poo poo out of me to think of the danger.
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Apr 10, 2018 17:34
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me your dad posted:Thanks. It occurred to me on my way into work that one of them is under my daughter's bed and it scared the poo poo out of me to think of the danger. If you wriggle a plug around in one on something with a heating element you can probably get some sparks and soot on the outside. Do this moments before they arrive and "oh thank god you're here" them when they show up.
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Apr 10, 2018 19:55
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me your dad posted:Hey speaking of outlets - we rent, and almost all of the outlets in our house can barely hold a plug in place. Our property management company is doing a routine inspection this Thursday, and I was thinking of asking them to replace the loose outlets.
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Apr 11, 2018 01:03
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H110Hawk posted:If you wriggle a plug around in one on something with a heating element you can probably get some sparks and soot on the outside. Do this moments before they arrive and "oh thank god you're here" them when they show up. This is a good plan.
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Apr 11, 2018 16:11
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I am trying to run some cable through some conduit and keep getting stuck at a bend. The cable is 2 wires of 6-gauge each made of smaller braided strands. There is also the ground. I tried to use some twine but it flexes too much. I am running this through 1-inch PVC. Generally the path is: Down five feet. 90 degree bend... Along trench four feet. 45 degree bend continuing... Along trench four feet. 45 degree bend continuing... Along trench about sixty feet. I have a coupling about a foot from the start. 90 degree bend... Along trench about ten feet. 90 degree bend... Up six feet to end. The bends are electrical PVC conduits with a more gradual turn; I did not get sharp turns for plumbing or whatever. It appears in particular to get stuck around the second 45 degree turn. I originally had the cable in one, wide sheath. I got further stripping that. The individual wires are still sheathed. I only stripped back about ten feet of 200 feet I have so I can undo it. I think it is snagging on the junction in particular. The wires come out a little bend on the end. I am thinking I need to stagger the wires and bend them back. I tried it with them a little closer and it didn't really do the job. I also intend to use a stuffer rope and maybe try wire lubricant tomorrow. My twine is too stretchy although it does work to maybe get a proper pull rope or whatever through. If you are curious, I sent it through using a Shop Vac with a screen the catch the twine.
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Apr 12, 2018 02:02
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:I am trying to run some cable through some conduit and keep getting stuck at a bend. The cable is 2 wires of 6-gauge each made of smaller braided strands. There is also the ground. I tried to use some twine but it flexes too much. I am running this through 1-inch PVC. Generally the path is: You're trying to pull a wire in a circle (you've got 360° of bend). This sucks no matter what you do. If your trench is still open, you can cut out those 45s and just lay the pipe in the trench. PVC is pretty bendy and will make a pretty tight curve, all things considering. What kind of cable is it? You said it had an overall sheath. Is this UF or NM or something? Absolutely 100% use lube. Any kind of lube is OK. Stripping back X feet of an overall cable is sketchy at best, because frequently the individual conductors aren't marked, making them illegal per code. Look up how to half-hitch your pull cord onto your cable. Making a streamlined "pulling head" and securely attaching your string will go a very, very long way to help with a successful pull. Additionally, having a second person feed the cable will help a lot.
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Apr 12, 2018 02:28
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:You're trying to pull a wire in a circle (you've got 360° of bend). This sucks no matter what you do. If your trench is still open, you can cut out those 45s and just lay the pipe in the trench. PVC is pretty bendy and will make a pretty tight curve, all things considering. I think it's this: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-125-ft-6-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/3127529 If that doesn't load for you, then the summary is that it's 125 feet of NM-B 6-2. It's three cables in a row sheathed together. It might also be completely stupid to use for this. I'm seeing mixed messages about if I can even run this underground outside. It was at least implied to me when I was shopping to it that it could be buried. I suppose in my case, I am in the county, and the neither the county, the city nearby, nor the utility cared when I went to get a permit for this (the septic, on the other hand...). I personally don't want to die though, so I don't want to do anything stupid. To make things easier on myself, I could probably step back to 8-gauge. I got the six because this line is for an inline heater and I was anticipating a beefier circuit than I actually needed. I would expect a smaller cable will run easier in general--especially in a 1-inch conduit. Define "unmarked" in this case. It's a black, a white, and a bare. Edit: I might be able to soften the bend of that pair of 45 degree turns but I can't really do the same at the other end. The trench is going under a bank of pool pipes and my water main in a rather tight space. Rocko Bonaparte fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Apr 12, 2018 |
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Apr 12, 2018 06:01
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:
Not listed for use without the sheathing.
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Apr 12, 2018 13:15
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:the summary is that it's 125 feet of NM-B 6-2. Underground conduit is a wet location, and that wire isn't rated for damp/wet locations. I wouldn't try to pull that through 1" pvc with 360 degrees of bends even if the wet weren't a problem. You could use two #6 THHNs and one #8 THHN which would be legal for the wire-fill and wet location, and alot easier to pull.
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Apr 12, 2018 13:54
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:I think it's this: Yeah, the guy at Lowes is an idiot and lied to you, sorry. NM-B is not rated to be installed in conduit underground. Return the roll and get a 500' roll of #6 THHN (any color except white or green is fine) and pull four individual conductors in. You can mark the neutral with white tape and the ground with green tape and the other phase with whatever color tape you want. I know you're not doing anything with a neutral right now, but if you're future-proofing, do it right. You'll be able to stagger the cable ends on this, and use cable lube (liquid dish detergent works great), and this pull will go way, way easier. Note that 500' of #6 is about twice the price of 125' of NM-B. If that's too expensive, then 500' of #8 is about the same price as your NM-B. Still pull in four conductors. When you say "probably step back to #8," though, how are you determining your wire size? Looks like your run is <100ft, so voltage drop won't be a concern at all up to 50A. #10 gets you a 30A breaker, #8 gets a 40, and #6 gets a 50, maximum. Good luck, and thanks for asking; electrical can be confusing.
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Apr 12, 2018 14:33
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Especially if you're going from advice from a big box store employee. There are zero qualifications required to work in the electrical department, so you'd just as likely get correct info by asking randos on the street.
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Apr 14, 2018 14:58
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sharkytm posted:Especially if you're going from advice from a big box store employee. There are zero qualifications required to work in the electrical department, so you'd just as likely get correct info by asking randos on the street. Random street people probably have a higher chance of electrical experience than the people working in a big box store.
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Apr 14, 2018 15:52
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I think I got it mostly figured out but I kind of blew it on the ends. I didn't attach the junction box, and I didn't realize until afterwards how the conduit is mounted into the breaker box the electrician had installed. So I have to play a game now on each end where I push my wires down, install the appropriate end piece, fish the cord out with a hook or something, and pull them back into place. That's unless, well, somebody knows a cute wait to do all this in-place without ruining any wires. What are the names of the pieces I use in the breaker box anyways? The impression I got was that it's basically a threaded female coupling outside the box and threaded male coupling inside the box. The screw together tightly and that keeps it sealed from the elements. Is that the right impression here? For those that were following along, the THHM ran much better, but I did also use wire lube. I way overdid it with extra wire on each end, but after re-aligning everything, I have enough left over to run through the second section to the actual destination. Eventually this is leading to an inline water heater. I was looking at it and the manual shows wiring assuming an outlet. However, it doesn't have a power cord. Is it normal to even have a plug with this stuff? I figured I was wiring right into it.
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Apr 16, 2018 05:53
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:I think I got it mostly figured out but I kind of blew it on the ends. I didn't attach the junction box, and I didn't realize until afterwards how the conduit is mounted into the breaker box the electrician had installed. So I have to play a game now on each end where I push my wires down, install the appropriate end piece, fish the cord out with a hook or something, and pull them back into place. That's unless, well, somebody knows a cute wait to do all this in-place without ruining any wires. What are the names of the pieces I use in the breaker box anyways? The impression I got was that it's basically a threaded female coupling outside the box and threaded male coupling inside the box. The screw together tightly and that keeps it sealed from the elements. Is that the right impression here? There's usually a female threaded coupling outside the box and a locking nut on the inside. That keeps most of the larger insects out of the box. Take a picture of what you've got and we can tell you what your options are. At the device end, yeah, you're probably required to have a disconnecting means of some sort there. A plug is the most common option. I guess technically if you're within 50 (fifty) feet and line-of-sight to your breaker box you can get away without it, or if you just really don't want to because nobody's gonna inspect it, you could get away without one.
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Apr 16, 2018 10:58
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:What are the names of the pieces I use in the breaker box anyways? Nice work. To finish out the PVC, you can use a PVC LB to get in the structure and then a male adapter or use a PVC male adapter into an exterior 6x6 weatherproof junction box (where you could splice the wire, if that makes things easier). Cheapest and easiest way to hook up the WH is probably direct wired with a 60a non-fusible AC disconnect. This would meet WH disconnect requirements and if you ever had to service the WH you'll be happy to be able to shut it off right close. Once you're in the building, you can run that 6-2 NM to the disconnect and then to the WH.
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Apr 16, 2018 15:03
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Is the need for a nearby disconnect a recent thing? No house I've ever lived in here in AZ has ever had one. They've all just been the breaker at the main panel, which has never been within line of sight of the water heater. My heat pump does have one, though.
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Apr 16, 2018 15:25
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IOwnCalculus posted:Is the need for a nearby disconnect a recent thing? No house I've ever lived in here in AZ has ever had one. They've all just been the breaker at the main panel, which has never been within line of sight of the water heater. My heat pump does have one, though. Not sure when it came in to the NEC, been there since the 2000's at least I think. It needs to be close to/line of sight to the panel like BEP said, have a non-fused disconnect, or have lockout hinges on the breaker. Edit: or a cord and plug, but non-fused disconnects are cheap. Blackbeer fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Apr 16, 2018 |
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Apr 16, 2018 15:39
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Even if it's not NEC, having a disconnect at any appliance that isn't cord and plug connected is ideal for service and/or emergencies. And the added cost is minimal, like >$10 even from box stores.
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Apr 16, 2018 16:37
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angryrobots posted:Even if it's not NEC, having a disconnect at any appliance that isn't cord and plug connected is ideal for service and/or emergencies. And the added cost is minimal, like >$10 even from box stores. I had to get an appliance cable--something rated for 50A, an appliance outlet, and a box. It's not the end of the world but that came in around $30. Most of that was for the big, fat, cable. I have will have to run some 12AWG lines too. Is it okay to use a spool all of one color for that too?
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Apr 16, 2018 18:50
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What's the 12AWG for?
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Apr 16, 2018 19:31
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angryrobots posted:What's the 12AWG for? There are different circuits. It's mostly lighting and to have a few useful outlets around the outdoor kitchen. One circuit is dedicated to a suitable undercounter fridge. These were wired up last year before I got started by an electrician and it's my bit now to take them the last few feet to where they all need to go.
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Apr 16, 2018 19:51
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Thinking about installing a security camera on the front of my garage. I have a box with switches in the back of the garage. One switch goes through a conduit line to two exterior lights on either side of the front of the garage door. The other switch goes through a conduit line to my ceiling lights. Also in this conduit line is an always powered cable connected to the outlet box that powers my garage door opener. What's the best way to power this new box? Fish a new cable along the length of my garage through the existing conduit to the new box? Or go from the garage door opener outlet through/around the huge beam running across my garage ceiling? 
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Apr 16, 2018 19:59
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FogHelmut posted:Thinking about installing a security camera on the front of my garage. I have a box with switches in the back of the garage. One switch goes through a conduit line to two exterior lights on either side of the front of the garage door. The other switch goes through a conduit line to my ceiling lights. Also in this conduit line is an always powered cable connected to the outlet box that powers my garage door opener. What kind of camera needs to be directly plugged in? Most I've ever dealt with are powered via their hook up cable. Back in the days of analog, that was siamese cable, but now it's Power Over Ethernet.
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Apr 16, 2018 20:09
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kid sinister posted:What kind of camera needs to be directly plugged in? Most I've ever dealt with are powered via their hook up cable. Back in the days of analog, that was siamese cable, but now it's Power Over Ethernet. Ring
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Apr 16, 2018 20:09
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FogHelmut posted:Ring I see. Weird. Anyway, yes, it will need an always on outlet. It sounds like your garage door opener box is the closest point to build off from. You might be nearing the box fill limit if you already have at least 3 runs going going into that switch box anyway.
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Apr 16, 2018 20:30
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:There are different circuits. It's mostly lighting and to have a few useful outlets around the outdoor kitchen. One circuit is dedicated to a suitable undercounter fridge. These were wired up last year before I got started by an electrician and it's my bit now to take them the last few feet to where they all need to go. Just out of curiosity, are all these circuits run separately in your trench back to the panel, or do you have a sub panel at the outdoor kitchen with it's own circuit feeding it?
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Apr 16, 2018 20:53
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FogHelmut posted:Thinking about installing a security camera on the front of my garage. I have a box with switches in the back of the garage. One switch goes through a conduit line to two exterior lights on either side of the front of the garage door. The other switch goes through a conduit line to my ceiling lights. Also in this conduit line is an always powered cable connected to the outlet box that powers my garage door opener. If looks matter when it comes to getting around that beam, I think I'd pull a wire through the exterior light run conduit and tap off of one of the ext light boxes. Wire-fill in that switch box might be an issue; how many circuits are in there? If it's a 4"x2 1/8" box, all #12 wire, and there's one circuit supplying everything, you can add two more wires without going over fill. You'd use the neutral that's at the exterior light and just pull an always-on hot from the switch box.
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Apr 16, 2018 21:30
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FogHelmut posted:Ring Serious question: Why not get something designed for the 21st century with power over ethernet support? No wifi reach issues, no mucking with 120VAC, etc. Edit: or their solar one and a new battery every 5 years?
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Apr 16, 2018 21:48
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Blackbeer posted:If looks matter when it comes to getting around that beam, I think I'd pull a wire through the exterior light run conduit and tap off of one of the ext light boxes. Wire-fill in that switch box might be an issue; how many circuits are in there? If it's a 4"x2 1/8" box, all #12 wire, and there's one circuit supplying everything, you can add two more wires without going over fill. You'd use the neutral that's at the exterior light and just pull an always-on hot from the switch box. Good idea, what's inside? That could make sense, its already doing that for the garage door opener and ceiling lights.  H110Hawk posted:Serious question: Why not get something designed for the 21st century with power over ethernet support? No wifi reach issues, no mucking with 120VAC, etc. Edit: or their solar one and a new battery every 5 years? Ring has the whole cloud service thing and I don't want to run a security camera server. A couple of friends have them and they work good. I've read bad things about their battery powered units not reacting quickly enough to start recording on motion detection, where the wired ones don't seem to have that issue. Also it would be more work to run ethernet all over my house.
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Apr 16, 2018 22:10
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angryrobots posted:Just out of curiosity, are all these circuits run separately in your trench back to the panel, or do you have a sub panel at the outdoor kitchen with it's own circuit feeding it? The particular circuits in question are in their own conduit going back to the main panel. They don't have a subpanel. The 6AWG wires are in a separate conduit going to a slightly different spot. They don't have a universal subpanel. The main reason for this is that the 12AWG wires were laid last year. One of them was for a small, tank-based water heater. However, the size I wanted to use turned out about 4 inches longer than I could wedge under my counters through a cabinet door. At that point, we decided to just go up to an inline water heater. That screwed everything up and compelled running a new line. For what it's worth, when those 12AWG wires were run, I had also just put in a shed in the opposite direction. I wanted some spare power at just 110VAC out there, so that was installed in a subpanel. My main panel is pretty much full now. 
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Apr 16, 2018 22:22
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FogHelmut posted:Good idea, what's inside? That could make sense, its already doing that for the garage door opener and ceiling lights. Yeah, you're good to add another stranded wire. I have a hard time telling the difference between #14 and #12 in photos, but I'm guessing this is #14 wire.
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Apr 16, 2018 22:33
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:The particular circuits in question are in their own conduit going back to the main panel. They don't have a subpanel. The 6AWG wires are in a separate conduit going to a slightly different spot. They don't have a universal subpanel. The main reason for this is that the 12AWG wires were laid last year. One of them was for a small, tank-based water heater. However, the size I wanted to use turned out about 4 inches longer than I could wedge under my counters through a cabinet door. At that point, we decided to just go up to an inline water heater. That screwed everything up and compelled running a new line. Ok, getting back to your original question about running these circuits in this outdoor kitchen. How did the electrician terminate these circuits at the kitchen end, and will you be running them through cabinet space or walls and/or is this structure completely enclosed (ie indoors)? Or were you running these circuits through conduit completely already?
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Apr 16, 2018 22:56
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FogHelmut posted:Good idea, what's inside? That could make sense, its already doing that for the garage door opener and ceiling lights. Fix those backstabs.
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Apr 16, 2018 23:38
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angryrobots posted:Ok, getting back to your original question about running these circuits in this outdoor kitchen. He ran them through half-inch conduit he laid in a trench I dug. It was done before I had the concrete patio expanded. They all pop out into a PVC box inside the cabinets. I plan to just run conduit inside everywhere.
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Apr 17, 2018 00:30
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:He ran them through half-inch conduit he laid in a trench I dug. It was done before I had the concrete patio expanded. They all pop out into a PVC box inside the cabinets. I plan to just run conduit inside everywhere. Gotcha. So each circuit is in its own 1/2 conduit from the panel to a single PVC box, and they each have their own neutral (and ground)? You're planning to run conduit end-to-end between all devices and boxes in this structure and wire won't be exposed anywhere, that right? Rocko Bonaparte posted:I have will have to run some 12AWG lines too. Is it okay to use a spool all of one color for that too? It's not illegal per the NEC to use black and mark the ends, but it's good and standard practice to just buy black/white/green. It will make your life a lot easier.
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Apr 17, 2018 05:03
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angryrobots posted:Gotcha. So each circuit is in its own 1/2 conduit from the panel to a single PVC box, and they each have their own neutral (and ground)? You're planning to run conduit end-to-end between all devices and boxes in this structure and wire won't be exposed anywhere, that right? No the 12-gauge stuff is in a 1/2" conduit from a year ago, and the 6-gauge is in a 1" conduit I laid just recently. There are four 12-gauge circuits in total. Two are tied to switches inside the house for some lighting and the other two are for outlets and fridge respectively.
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Apr 17, 2018 15:41
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So I'm asking, you have four 12-gauge circuits in a single 1/2 conduit and there isn't a shared neutral? That's a lot of wire in a 1/2" conduit...
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Apr 17, 2018 16:22
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