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JBP posted:It's a ludicrous thing to say, especially when you were driven from your home by an Islamic revolution. Connect the dots for me there.
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Apr 12, 2018 04:50
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Okay I think this is it (Greens HTV for Melbourne 2016) http://www.adambandt.com/htv
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Apr 12, 2018 04:50
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Snowman_McK posted:Connect the dots for me there. Her family left due to Islamic revolution. I like her and I like spice but you can't tell me she's some 100% solemn commentator and that her shock at people reacting to extremely stinky bait is real. Good way to crack the much larger UK commentary market though.
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Apr 12, 2018 04:54
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Snowman_McK posted:And I guess that's where the argument gets interesting. Which version of protestantism? How specific do you get? Hell, even within the same religion. The Lutheran Church of Australia doesn't ordain women, but they do in the US, Europe and Africa.
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Apr 12, 2018 04:54
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Whitlam posted:Hell, even within the same religion. The Lutheran Church of Australia doesn't ordain women, but they do in the US, Europe and Africa. That's what I discovered. Okinawan Baptists ordain women, Independent Baptists don't.
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Apr 12, 2018 04:58
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JBP posted:Her family left due to Islamic revolution. I like her and I like spice but you can't tell me she's some 100% solemn commentator and that her shock at people reacting to extremely stinky bait is real. That's not connecting the dots, that's restating one of them.
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Apr 12, 2018 04:59
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Let's earnestly debate which is the most feminist religion, rather than simply admit that claiming Islam is the most feminist religion is really stupid.
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Apr 12, 2018 05:01
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Snowman_McK posted:That's not connecting the dots, that's restating one of them. Ok I wasn't sure what manner of bonehead you were so answered earnestly.
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Apr 12, 2018 05:02
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the Mahdi is female though you infidels. you utter cretins.
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Apr 12, 2018 05:02
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S tier religions: Catholicism
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Apr 12, 2018 05:04
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Amethyst posted:Let's earnestly debate which is the most feminist religion, rather than simply admit that claiming any of them is the most feminist religion is really stupid. Fixed JBP posted:Ok I wasn't sure what manner of bonehead you were so answered earnestly. "Her claim is ridiculous because she fled a revolution" is two completely unconnected things.
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Apr 12, 2018 05:04
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Why the gently caress are the hospital patients voting Liberal so strongly? Don't they read the Liberal health policy?
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Apr 12, 2018 05:05
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Snowman_McK posted:Fixed Nobody claimed a religion is the most feminist except for Yassmin Abdel-Magied, so I guess we agree that she is a blowhard idiot.
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Apr 12, 2018 05:06
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Snowman_McK posted:Fixed You have actively misquoted me. Well played. Can't draw a line between being driven from my home by Islamists and Islam being poo poo Mr Speaker. Claims it's the most feminist religion in a fight with fellow television and radio rodeo clown Jackie Lambie. What a potent commentator and great argument she has made.
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Apr 12, 2018 05:09
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Aesculus posted:Why the gently caress are the hospital patients voting Liberal so strongly? Don't they read the Liberal health policy? I believe those multiple sites teams go to the nursing homes but old people are more likely to be holed up in a hospital anyway.
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Apr 12, 2018 05:09
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JBP posted:You have actively misquoted me. Nope. JBP posted:It's a ludicrous thing to say, especially when you were driven from your home by an Islamic revolution. Amethyst posted:Nobody claimed a religion is the most feminist except for Yassmin Abdel-Magied, so I guess we agree that she is a blowhard idiot. Which is sort of the oppostie of a spicy take. Something that may technically be true , but that doesn't matter because it's the tallest dwarf in the room. Islam is an actively feminist institution is a spicy take. Claiming that jeff the dwarf is actually 6 foot tall is a spicy take. Snowman_McK fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Apr 12, 2018 |
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Apr 12, 2018 05:26
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JBP posted:It's a ludicrous thing to say, especially when you were driven from your home by an Islamic revolution. Snowman_McK posted:
Keyword not found. Disingenuous poster.
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Apr 12, 2018 05:30
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JBP posted:Keyword not found. Disingenuous poster. Okay, I've failed your game of spot the difference. In what sense were you misquoted?
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Apr 12, 2018 05:31
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I'm not going to claim islam is in any way a feminist religion (pmuch all organised religions poo poo on women) but there are elements of truth--e.g. the quran gave property rights and (extremely limited) divorce rights to women long before there was any such thing in the west. In modern practice there are obviously huge issues with the way women are treated in muslim majority countries. So definitely an absurd claim for Yassmin, but that one line she said in the heat of the moment seems to be used as a dogwhistle to invalidate anything she says by dudebros on the internet. every time I see a mention of her, the redditors dogpile with the 'lol islam is the most feminist religion' comment and completely ignores whatever (usually completely valid) she's actually making Most likely, she personally practises a feminist version of islam (because hey, it's not the monolith that people make it out to be), so to her it might be the most feminist religion. I forget how she worded it so it was probably worded poorly and in the heat of the moment. Not really a reason to dismiss her as a valid commentator on islam (or anything else for that matter). In any case we need more women of colour in journalism and public life. I'd prefer her to van badtake any day.
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Apr 12, 2018 05:45
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They're all van badtake. Is Rita Panahi a good or bad WOC?
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Apr 12, 2018 05:46
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There's an interesting quote from Steven Runciman, the great historian, about the appeal of early Islam. It was, unapologetically, a religion of the sword. While, by contrast, Christianity preached a peaceful ideal that they never lived up to. There's probably a similar point about Islam here in reverse, that it sets high standards for the treatment and rights of women (certainly for when it was written) but fails to live up to them.
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Apr 12, 2018 05:47
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JBP posted:They're all van badtake. Is Rita Panahi a good or bad WOC? lol at inviting this forum to call someone a good or bad WOC
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Apr 12, 2018 05:51
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Snowman_McK posted:Nope. I'm glad you found a definition of "spicy take" that let's you avoid feeling like an idiot.
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Apr 12, 2018 05:51
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They are all bad, There's my ghost pepper tier hot take for the week see yas
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Apr 12, 2018 05:53
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Amethyst posted:I'm glad you found a definition of "spicy take" that let's you avoid feeling like an idiot. Okay.
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Apr 12, 2018 05:53
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I have to justify myself by referring to the height of people using a slur
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Apr 12, 2018 05:58
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it is possible to acknowledge that the current use of islam in the political sphere is generally detrimental to a worse degree than the similar use of christianity without being islamophobic hth
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Apr 12, 2018 05:59
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bell jar posted:I have to justify myself by referring to the height of people using a slur I've fixed because holy I can tell you're going to be insufferable about it.
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Apr 12, 2018 06:04
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Islam is the tallest religion.
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Apr 12, 2018 06:05
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BBJoey posted:it is possible to acknowledge that the current use of islam in the political sphere is generally detrimental to a worse degree than the similar use of christianity without being islamophobic hth Do you mean the use of Islam as a term or using its values as a piece of political leverage?
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Apr 12, 2018 06:05
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BBJoey posted:it is possible to acknowledge that the current use of islam in the political sphere is generally detrimental to a worse degree than the similar use of christianity without being islamophobic hth Is that evidentially correct though or based on your assumptions? I don't know whether it is or not, Indonesia is the largest muslim country on Earth and has a similar inequality index to Mexico?
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Apr 12, 2018 06:06
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Since I can't edit I'll double post: How much of that is attributable to Islam and how much of that is regional and development based. Would you argue that Judaism is a destructive religion based on the actions of the one Jewish state?
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Apr 12, 2018 06:08
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hooman posted:Is that evidentially correct though or based on your assumptions? Indonesia also has shocking rates of FGM https://data.unicef.org/resources/female-genital-mutilation-cutting-country-profiles/
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Apr 12, 2018 06:08
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hooman posted:Is that evidentially correct though or based on your assumptions? It's a difficult thing to measure. It's easy to say Muslim countries are bad, but they rank in the bottom pile due to being bombed to heck by the west. In the same vein the worst countries for citizens rights are Muslim theocratic countries, but the worst countries when it comes to endemic poverty are maybe split evenly as openly or nominally Christian (and largely Catholic). It poses an interesting argument re people grasping for hope due to bad circumstances and finding Islam or Christianity as an answer rather than finding a dvd of Rick and Morty.
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Apr 12, 2018 06:11
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Lid posted:Just had a flashback to when ELECTION NOW was a meme here... was that 8 years ago? starkebn posted:That's why it sounds so hollow. Every opposition party in forever has promised the same list of poo poo. Even the party in power says the exact same list before an election. Well spotted. It does have that smell about it to me. If Bill takes to spouting TLS and running off camera it will be a slam dunk.
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Apr 12, 2018 06:16
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Snowman_McK posted:Do you mean the use of Islam as a term or using its values as a piece of political leverage? the latter hooman posted:Is that evidentially correct though or based on your assumptions? inequality is not a function of religion, broadly speaking. i’m talking about social mores; though christianity constrains human rights in a number of ways, in particular in places like latin america where conservative catholicism runs strong, i don’t think it’s much deniable that on average politically powerful islam has a worse effect on for example gay rights or women’s rights than christianity. and i would also say that yes, as a tool used to justify the settlement and slow cleansing of palestine, judaism is destructive politically.
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Apr 12, 2018 06:16
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The Before Times posted:Indonesia also has shocking rates of FGM I didn't know that. FGM is a weird one because it's also quite prevalent in Christian countries in Africa. I'd seen some evidence it was a region/cultural thing, but I'm honestly not well educated enough about it to comment beyond it not just being an Islam thing. JBP posted:It's a difficult thing to measure. It's easy to say Muslim countries are bad, but they rank in the bottom pile due to being bombed to heck by the west. In the same vein the worst countries for citizens rights are Muslim theocratic countries, but the worst countries when it comes to endemic poverty are maybe split evenly as openly or nominally Christian (and largely Catholic). Yeah, this point is mostly why people blithely associating religion with circumstance frustrates me, because while it may be true, correlation and causation aren't the same thing and rather then being studied in an academic sense the question of "Does Islam promote x among it's followers" is used as a bludgeon against it, or to confirm internal prejudices. Hell, my internal prejudice is that Islam is worse for women, but I think I owe it to myself and Islam to question the poo poo out of it, because I'm well aware it's based in racism and media consumption rather than coming from rigorous evidence.
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Apr 12, 2018 06:17
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hooman posted:Since I can't edit I'll double post: Yes yes everything is grey and nothing is good or bad. The massive sectarian war consuming the middle east is fine. Groups like Boko Haram, Al Shabaab, and Jabhat Al Nusra? Nothing to worry about. Saudi Arabia's sectarian war on Yemen is not remarkable you will find catholics doing the same thing in uhhhhhh
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Apr 12, 2018 06:19
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You have to be careful with broad statements. One of my favourites to bring up is that, of the worst 50 cities in the world for murder rate, every single one is in a majority Christian country. I don't think it proves anything about christianity, though, because all the countries those cities belong to have other problems, like massive inequality and political instability.JBP posted:It's a difficult thing to measure. It's easy to say Muslim countries are bad, but they rank in the bottom pile due to being bombed to heck by the west. In the same vein the worst countries for citizens rights are Muslim theocratic countries, but the worst countries when it comes to endemic poverty are maybe split evenly as openly or nominally Christian (and largely Catholic). Don't forget various superpowers propping up useful strongmen, no matter how nutty they are. That's helped speed the death of arab nationalism in the middle east that's been going on since 67 or so. Dictatorships love making GBS threads on gays and women because their whole schtick is based on the appearance of strength, and that is manly, obviously. Amethyst posted:Yes yes everything is grey and nothing is good or bad. The massive sectarian war consuming the middle east is fine. Groups like Boko Haram, Al Shabaab, and Jabhat Al Nusra? Nothing to worry about. Saudi Arabia's sectarian war on Yemen is not remarkable you will find catholics doing the same thing in uhhhhhh Are you alright, dude?
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Apr 12, 2018 06:23
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personally the way i conceive of religion is that it’s a fool’s game to try and categorise a religion itself as better or worse than another. all religions can be interpreted to suit anyones’ ends. what actually matters is who is doing the interpreting and how strongly that affects people.
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Apr 12, 2018 06:29
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