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Jeb! Repetition posted:Off-topic, but the "syncretic tradition" thing is so very Jordan Peterson syncretic tradition, rejection of modernism, action for action's sake, disagreement is treason, fear of difference, appeal to a frustrated middle class, obsession with a plot,  , life is permanent warfare, contempt for the weak and popular elitism, everyone is educated to become a hero, machismo, selective populism, newspeak
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Apr 12, 2018 00:20
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yes right wing ideologies are revanchist and reactionary in both culture and materialistically its kind of their defining feature
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Apr 12, 2018 01:28
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Jeb! Repetition posted:He makes a powerful case for "peace process" being propagandistic but not "democracy"
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Apr 12, 2018 01:45
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Its because 'plutocracy' isn't as inspiring a system of governance as 'democracy'.
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Apr 12, 2018 01:51
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i wish people would stop using eco as their basis for determining what fascism is
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Apr 12, 2018 04:16
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comedyblissoption posted:the US itself is very frequently and often called a democracy in an orwellian manner while being run by business interests At least they never commissioned a HMS Tyrannicide
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Apr 12, 2018 04:51
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R. Guyovich posted:i wish people would stop using eco as their basis for determining what fascism is Eco overcomplicated peoples' ability to define fascism by ascribing too many symptoms to its ur-state. If I were to pare it down I'd say that fascism is the realization of nationalist sentimentality into ideology, which seeks eternal struggle against all other cultures until only the national will remains supreme over all others. All the stuff about syncretic traditions doesn't really matter. It's a tool for defining fascist identity, and could just as well be something completely made up with no pretensions of ancient glory to legitimize itself.
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Apr 12, 2018 05:58
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it's the terroristic dictatorship of capital. that's it the surrounding ideology can vary, but its little more than window dressing. the violent, criminal enforcement of the bourgeoisie's will is what fascism is
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Apr 12, 2018 07:49
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everything is fascist. sorry to ruin your "fun"
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Apr 12, 2018 07:50
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R. Guyovich posted:it's the terroristic dictatorship of capital. that's it I don't think fascism can be divested from its nationalistic elements. Like, if there can be international capital it's hard to imagine an international fascism. The terroristic enforcement of bourgeois will is practically what neoliberalism is. It might not be as savage as fascists like to be, but it doesn't have to in order to instill terror. It's the sophistication of the neoliberal terror regime that makes it, arguably, way more insidious. Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 10:41 on Apr 12, 2018 |
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Apr 12, 2018 10:38
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I don't think fascism can be divested from its nationalistic elements. Like, if there can be international capital it's hard to imagine an international fascism. I'm just a simple country shitposter, but to me, the key element that makes something fascism, rather than just garden variety tyranny, is something that makes people complicit in their own/each other's oppression. A shared myth of identity (which can be nationalism but isn't necessarily limited to that) and a common enemy is usually the form this takes.
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Apr 12, 2018 10:45
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Eh, pretty sure nearly all effective oppression ultimately involves nearly everyone being complicit in it.
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Apr 12, 2018 11:33
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docbeard posted:I'm just a simple country shitposter, but to me, the key element that makes something fascism, rather than just garden variety tyranny, is something that makes people complicit in their own/each other's oppression. A shared myth of identity (which can be nationalism but isn't necessarily limited to that) and a common enemy is usually the form this takes. That's vague enough so you could apply it to anything, which is what made fascism lose its definitions in the mid-20th century to begin with. Practically speaking you're just talking about false consciousness. IMO fascism needs to stay rooted in its post-WW1 nationalist revanchist origins, and has to be understood in that context. Fascists want to enforce a sense of holistic nationalism which sublimates class conflict to the will of political leadership, in order for the entire nation to be unified in waging its forever war against all alien & seditious elements. It's one thing to cultivate false consciousness by ginning up the threat of some fearful other, but enemies can be dealt with at arms' length even if the threat isn't genuine. Fascism seeks every opportunity to wage war with all others, and it loves every minute of it.
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Apr 12, 2018 11:34
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And has no qualms about simultaneously portraying itself as a nation of peace-loving victims forced into war by brutal greedy neighbours and traitors. 'Why did you make me hit you' and all.
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Apr 12, 2018 11:48
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Nebakenezzer posted:At least they never commissioned a HMS Tyrannicide apparently we did, it fought in the revolutionary war
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Apr 12, 2018 12:40
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https://twitter.com/nytopinion/status/984381448277897221 https://twitter.com/emmaroller/status/984413727163404290
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Apr 12, 2018 17:02
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:https://twitter.com/nytopinion/status/984381448277897221 
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Apr 12, 2018 17:10
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fascism is anyone who disagrees with me, personally, and if you disagree you know what that makes you???
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Apr 12, 2018 17:13
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Tunicate posted:fascism is anyone who disagrees with me, personally, and if you disagree you know what that makes you??? This is honestly how it works for lots of people
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Apr 12, 2018 17:24
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I guarantee that this time next year Paul Ryan will be fully rehabilitated, and will then go on to become an honorary member of the #resistance once he says something like "threatening to use nuclear weapons against the vatican is problematic, mr. President. Do better"
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Apr 12, 2018 17:25
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In terms of how it's actually used, fascism is a propagandistic term that loosely centers around brutal oppression by the state and trying to define it beyond that is pointless because a clear definition wont change how people use it.
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Apr 12, 2018 17:26
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joepinetree posted:nuclear weapons against the vatican 
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Apr 12, 2018 17:28
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Words mean however people use them and prescriptivism is wrong and dumb For example, here is the Paper of Record saying Israel should intervene in Syria because it has a special obligation to stop war crimes. Words don't have meaning as they relate to Platonic ideas, as the author, also the author of “Rise and Kill First: The Secret History of Israel’s Targeted Assassinations," is not so interested in opposing war crimes as promoting an Israeli war on Syria. They are the ravings of a fool saying "Israel good. Syria bad." It's just dressed up to be more rhetorically appealing. https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/984464935219552256 pee pee poo poo the NY Times is a bad paper
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Apr 12, 2018 17:41
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Tewdrig posted:Words mean however people use them and prescriptivism is wrong and dumb Yeah, we should just let the people with all the money and who own all the media define the way everybody interprets the world. You can read all about it in Liberal Fascism.
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Apr 12, 2018 18:05
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Yeah, we should just let the people with all the money and who own all the media define the way everybody interprets the world. You can read all about it in Liberal Fascism. Done. Next request?
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Apr 12, 2018 18:06
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Control Volume posted:Done. Next request? The Big Lie: Exposing the Nazi Roots of the American Left
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Apr 12, 2018 18:10
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Tewdrig posted:Words mean however people use them and prescriptivism is wrong and dumb i always love the wording of "do something" because it lets your brain fill in the action to be taken (inevitably, turning a mostly functional nation into a trash can for exporting weapons to, with overwhelming violence) with whatever you, the nice NYT-reading liberal, want it to be and by that i mean do all these absolute monsters think that everyone just forgot about the iraq war completely given that this is the exact same loving thing
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Apr 12, 2018 18:15
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The Big Lie: Exposing the Nazi Roots of the American Left Sorry I cant do that after giving control over to the rich and powerful. Youre SOL here e: Oh sorry thought you meant the American Right. Turns out what you requested is part of the package deal with media control
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Apr 12, 2018 18:28
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the bitcoin of weed posted:i always love the wording of "do something" because it lets your brain fill in the action to be taken (inevitably, turning a mostly functional nation into a trash can for exporting weapons to, with overwhelming violence) with whatever you, the nice NYT-reading liberal, want it to be Netanyahu sighs as he activates his iron man suit
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Apr 12, 2018 18:52
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the bitcoin of weed posted:i always love the wording of "do something" because it lets your brain fill in the action to be taken (inevitably, turning a mostly functional nation into a trash can for exporting weapons to, with overwhelming violence) with whatever you, the nice NYT-reading liberal, want it to be 1. We must do something. 2. This is something. 3. Therefore, we must do this.
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Apr 12, 2018 19:09
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4wTzPhZtkE
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Apr 12, 2018 21:57
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This is insufferable.
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Apr 12, 2018 22:20
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i love how trump's quotes in this are more true than what the reporters are saying.
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Apr 12, 2018 22:39
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Apr 12, 2018 23:04
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Today's David Brooks is mostly boring, one of his dumbass reviews of a dumbass book, but it does have this gem in it:quote:Goldberg points out that for eons human beings were semi-hairless upright apes clumped in tribes and fighting for food. But about 300 years ago something that he calls “the Miracle” happened. It was a shift in attitude. For thousands of years, societies divided people into permanent categories of race or caste. But, Goldberg writes, “the Miracle ushered in a philosophy that says each person is to be judged and respected on account of their own merits, not the class or caste of their ancestors.”
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Apr 13, 2018 15:25
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pospysyl posted:Today's David Brooks is mostly boring, one of his dumbass reviews of a dumbass book, but it does have this gem in it: Absolutely none of this is true.
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Apr 13, 2018 17:29
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So this week in the race to the bottom, who wrote the worst op-ed in the NYT?
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Apr 13, 2018 17:32
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https://twitter.com/SimonMaloy/status/984790866895175680
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Apr 13, 2018 17:55
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https://twitter.com/ebruenig/status/985549715252097024 the INCOHERENT new york times
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Apr 15, 2018 17:13
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Absolutely none of this is true. our predecessor species going back literal hundreds of thousands of years where taking care of the sick and elderly. altruism and mutalism have existed for very loving long time
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Apr 15, 2018 19:41
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