Mel Mudkiper posted:Thats what I am doing No you're not dude, you're just saying "the politics of this book are bad" which everyone already agrees with. You need to demonstrate that enjoying a scene of guys mowing down chupacabras with CAWSes will inevitably turn you into a Proud Boy.
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Apr 13, 2018 16:35
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Clipperton posted:No you're not dude, you're just saying "the politics of this book are bad" which everyone already agrees with. You need to demonstrate that enjoying a scene of guys mowing down chupacabras with CAWSes will inevitably turn you into a Proud Boy. Excuse me I may not know much about guns but I googled what a CAWS is and found out that it's made by H&K That means it's bad because Correia taught me that H&K is bad praise gun jesus, the mulcher of wrights and human noses
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Apr 13, 2018 16:39
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Clipperton posted:You need to demonstrate that enjoying a scene of guys mowing down chupacabras with CAWSes will inevitably turn you into a Proud Boy. That is a rather profound misunderstanding of the argument
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Apr 13, 2018 16:40
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Renegret posted:Excuse me Correia is actually a Saiga fanboy.
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Apr 13, 2018 16:41
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chitoryu12 posted:Correia is actually a Saiga fanboy.  I am too, apparently!
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Apr 13, 2018 16:42
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Mel Mudkiper posted:A dangerous attempt to normalize fascism in a treatise on a toxic world view. Because it's not. If Correia's multiple rants on why message fiction sucks and is bad during the sad puppies debacle, and talking about how his own books didn't have messaging in them (until Black Sword), then I'm not sure what more you need. Maybe we can thrown in that Correia hated Trump and didn't vote for the guy because he was a "thin-skinned authoritarian", his politics based off the 2016 election posts also did not line up with the alt-right, or fascism. But continue to read into a novel that was written to justify the killing of monsters with lots of guns. But even then, his politics even in this book are pretty clearly leaning on the conservative/libertarian/ancap side of the equation which was hard opposed to the alt-right, that and the politics are taken as default assumption because he was writing this for a group of people who believed these things already, and it comes off to everyone as over the top in terms of it's presentation.
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Apr 13, 2018 16:43
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Renegret posted:
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Apr 13, 2018 16:44
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ShinsoBEAM! posted:Because it's not. If Correia's multiple rants on why message fiction sucks and is bad during the sad puppies debacle, and talking about how his own books didn't have messaging in them (until Black Sword), then I'm not sure what more you need. All fiction is message fiction. If you believe you are not writing message fiction, you write in a state of near total ignorance.
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Apr 13, 2018 16:46
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Choco1980 posted:Considering Pitt is a Mary Sue self-insert, I'm wondering if Julie is based on an irl woman... Prolly Mrs. Larry, truthfully.
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Apr 13, 2018 16:48
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chitoryu12 posted:Correia is actually a Saiga fanboy. See, I told you he is scum. Everyone knows you root for Neintando
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Apr 13, 2018 16:50
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I'm gonna go to a rental range down in Kissimmee and shoot their silenced USP just to give the finger to Correia.
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Apr 13, 2018 17:05
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Mel Mudkiper posted:That is a rather profound misunderstanding of the argument In what way is the novel Monster Hunter International by noted not-working-out enthusiast Larry Correia "dangerous"
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Apr 13, 2018 17:11
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Forgive me if this has been covered already, but didn't Larry Correia start the Sad Puppies movement, aka the alt-right of science fiction literature?
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Apr 13, 2018 17:14
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ShinsoBEAM! posted:Because it's not. If Correia's multiple rants on why message fiction sucks and is bad during the sad puppies debacle, and talking about how his own books didn't have messaging in them All fiction is message fiction. Every work conveys a worldview, either explicit or implicit. "Message fiction" is a term people use to describe works whose worldviews they disagree with.
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Apr 13, 2018 17:15
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Clipperton posted:In what way is the novel Monster Hunter International by noted not-working-out enthusiast Larry Correia "dangerous" each page is covered in a deadly poison!!!! Seriously though, it seeks to normalize extremist viewpoints about violence and ethics by masquerading a deeply toxic world view in a facade of "dumb" fun. He's not the only one to do, its quite ubiquitous, but that doesn't mean I am not gonna call it out in the thread for calling it out. Media influences our view of the world and our understanding of the ranges of acceptable reality. This book, and series, acts as an attempt to shift that perspective towards fascism.
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Apr 13, 2018 17:17
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Despite how antagonistic Harbringer is to the government, the government suppressing any knowledge of monsters means he has quite a cozy relationship with it. It means no competitors.
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Apr 13, 2018 17:19
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Mel Mudkiper posted:This book, and series, acts as an attempt to shift that perspective towards fascism. even, it should be noted, if that wasn't Correia's intent. it doesn't matter whether he meant for the book to normalize fascism; what matters is that it normalizes fascism
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Apr 13, 2018 17:19
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chernobyl kinsman posted:even, it should be noted, if that wasn't Correia's intent. it doesn't matter whether he meant for the book to normalize fascism; what matters is that it normalizes fascism exactly. Correia's pretense of his writing being apolitical simply highlights that Correia is a deeply uncritical person
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Apr 13, 2018 17:21
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Renegret posted:Excuse me Dude. Do NOT bring Ian into this. He is way cool for a gun dude.
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Apr 13, 2018 17:25
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Let's be real here a book about Ian and Karl fighting wights and vampires with whatever's on sale at James Julia this month would be hella rad.
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Apr 13, 2018 17:31
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Sperglord Actual posted:Let's be real here a book about Ian and Karl fighting wights and vampires with whatever's on sale at James Julia this month would be hella rad. Write this before you finish Shark Puncher.
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Apr 13, 2018 17:31
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Mel Mudkiper posted:each page is covered in a deadly poison!!!! I'm just saying, I don't think it makes sense to read the work of the leader of a political movement (as irrelevant as that movement might be) apolitically.
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Apr 13, 2018 17:32
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pospysyl posted:I'm just saying, I don't think it makes sense to read the work of the leader of a political movement (as irrelevant as that movement might be) apolitically. I absolutely agree
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Apr 13, 2018 17:35
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Seriously, though, I do remember the Sad Puppies thing getting pretty dark. Whole bunch of death and rape threats, several of them credible. Probably worth considering if and how that tied into the messaging of the fiction they were promoting.
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Apr 13, 2018 17:55
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Seriously though, it seeks to normalize extremist viewpoints about violence and ethics by masquerading a deeply toxic world view in a facade of "dumb" fun. He's not the only one to do, its quite ubiquitous, but that doesn't mean I am not gonna call it out in the thread for calling it out. Media influences our view of the world and our understanding of the ranges of acceptable reality. This book, and series, acts as an attempt to shift that perspective towards fascism. "Seeks to" is doing a lot of work here. Correia might be trying to "influence our view of the world" but judging by this thread he's batting .000 among everyone who didn't share his view of the world in the first place. Doesn't mean his politics shouldn't be called out, but again, almost everyone itt has been calling them out right along with you. What you seem to find objectionable is the idea that you can realize that Correia's politics are dogshit and still enjoy his action scenes, which, given that a bunch of posters itt are doing exactly that, seems tenuous.
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Apr 13, 2018 18:15
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What I am suggesting is that there is no way to enjoy the action scenes without implicitly buying into the morality of the text. You cannot separate the action from the ethos that justifies it.
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Apr 13, 2018 18:25
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If the sharks eat the wight and ghoul meat in the water does it paralyze them? if so then I think that means shooting vampires on a boat is racist against sharks
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Apr 13, 2018 18:25
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Mel Mudkiper posted:What I am suggesting is that there is no way to enjoy the action scenes without implicitly buying into the morality of the text. You cannot separate the action from the ethos that justifies it. Huh. I don't see how this is the case for anyone who's even slightly critical and self-aware. I'd say it's possible to consume problematic media and even derive some enjoyment without condoning the core or the message.
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Apr 13, 2018 19:09
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Mel Mudkiper posted:What I am suggesting is that there is no way to enjoy the action scenes without implicitly buying into the morality of the text. You cannot separate the action from the ethos that justifies it. Anyone who ever enjoyed the Cthulhu Mythos is a racist, got it.
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Apr 13, 2018 19:13
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Everyone is racist, all the time, and if you deny it you are clearly covering up for racism & problematic fiction.
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Apr 13, 2018 19:18
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Is it immoral just to consume media that potentially showcases immoral views, or is it also immoral to consume media produced by immoral people regardless of the content? And if the latter, what level of immorality is permissible in the author?
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Apr 13, 2018 19:29
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chitoryu12 posted:Is it immoral just to consume media that potentially showcases immoral views, or is it also immoral to consume media produced by immoral people regardless of the content? Neither is my point. It is not the morality of consuming the piece as much as the issue of believing one can enjoy an unethical piece of art while not conceding to the premise that makes it unethical. It is like saying you can enjoy the action scenes in Birth of a Nation without necessarily believing all that white supremacy stuff. On a narrative level enjoyment requires engagement. If you are not engaged with a story, how can you enjoy it? And if the rules of that engagement are to sympathize with the Klan lynching and terrorizing blacks and creating the dawn of modern white supremacy, how could it not be unethical to enjoy it? Mel Mudkiper fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Apr 13, 2018 |
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Apr 13, 2018 19:43
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Killing vampires? Literally Hitler.
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Apr 13, 2018 19:52
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sky shark posted:Killing vampires? Literally Hitler. What if hitler was a vampire? is it still racist to shoot him
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Apr 13, 2018 20:02
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Neither is my point. If the book had none of these messages, would Correia personally believing in such things mean the reader is conceding to these beliefs by financially supporting him?
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Apr 13, 2018 20:08
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chitoryu12 posted:If the book had none of these messages, would Correia personally believing in such things mean the reader is conceding to these beliefs by financially supporting him? Of course not, notice my critique is of the text foremost. The author is ultimately irrelevant.
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Apr 13, 2018 20:10
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it would be helpful to stop talking about "messages" like they're encoded missives hidden inside the book by the author. it's not that the book has a fascist "message," it's that its entire premise is predicated upon protofascist right-to-power ideology
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Apr 13, 2018 20:11
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chernobyl kinsman posted:it would be helpful to stop talking about "messages" like they're encoded missives hidden inside the book by the author. it's not that the book has a fascist "message," it's that its entire premise is predicated upon protofascist right-to-power ideology Well said
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Apr 13, 2018 20:13
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like the quote about how his books don't have any "messages" in them bespeaks a total lack of understanding (on his part) of how books, writing, or reading work
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Apr 13, 2018 20:13
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Sperglord Actual posted:Anyone who ever enjoyed the Cthulhu Mythos is a racist, got it. how can you appreciate the horror in Arthur Jermyn without conceding something to Lovecraft's fear of miscegenation?
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Apr 13, 2018 20:19
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