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Take haste and use it on your ranger to make them not terrible
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Apr 13, 2018 21:02
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Sage Genesis posted:It's not just you. Having just wrapped up the last session of a 20th level campaign last night it is an extremely poo poo monster that will get chumped by any half-competent group of high level characters.
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Apr 13, 2018 21:14
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I dunno it sounds like a monster you throw at a lower leveled party to scare them. Seems pretty meh on level ground.
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Apr 13, 2018 21:19
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They wouldn't even have to be that high. My experience in 5e is to give the big bad some mooks for meatshields, or make it a CR way higher than the book would suggest. The action economy is everything, this thing attacks solo, 5 PC's will murder it. I'm honestly curious how low level you could get for a party to reliably beat that up.
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Apr 13, 2018 21:22
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Sage Genesis posted:Worst thing is, Donjon Visit does basically nothing. The target just readies an action to take when they re-appear, so they can do whatever they wanted to anyway. You lose nothing. (Unless you were relying on Extra Attack, in which case God help you.) I wonder if the book says any good stuff to do with the donjon or if it's just the statblock. Splicer fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Apr 13, 2018 |
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Apr 13, 2018 21:30
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Without going into details, the Pudding King fight is a pretty good example of why action economy is so massively important in 5e. If you're going to throw a single enemy at a party, it needs some absurd tricks in order to just not get annihilated.
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Apr 13, 2018 21:35
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So if you magically blind it , is it unable to use its antimagic cone to unblind itself? That's really funny
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Apr 13, 2018 21:36
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Elysiume posted:Without going into details, the Pudding King fight is a pretty good example of why action economy is so massively important in 5e. If you're going to throw a single enemy at a party, it needs some absurd tricks in order to just not get annihilated.
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Apr 13, 2018 21:37
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Generally speaking to make solo monsters a challenge I max their HP and give them a handful of legendary actions. Works for me most of the time.
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Apr 13, 2018 21:38
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Elysiume posted:Without going into details, the Pudding King fight is a pretty good example of why action economy is so massively important in 5e. If you're going to throw a single enemy at a party, it needs some absurd tricks in order to just not get annihilated. Reposting: https://songoftheblade.wordpress.com/2015/12/08/designing-boss-monsters/
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Apr 13, 2018 21:51
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Elysiume posted:Without going into details, the Pudding King fight is a pretty good example of why action economy is so massively important in 5e. If you're going to throw a single enemy at a party, it needs some absurd tricks in order to just not get annihilated. Case in point, my Party's 6-7th (can't remember exactly )level Paladin, squished him single-handed in one round. Granted they used clever planning to set that up, but the point is more 5E characters can have very high surge damage as well if they're free to burn, smites, action surges, or whatever limited bennies they get on a big encounter. Even at 7th level with a fair wind, and a little luck I wouldn't be surprised if that Party could take that Dreadnought. If they came to the fight fresh, and the CR rating would say that was impossible. Deptfordx fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Apr 13, 2018 |
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Apr 13, 2018 22:12
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Deptfordx posted:Case in point, my Party's 6-7th (can't remember exactly )level Paladin, squished him single-handed in one round. Granted they used clever planning to set that up, but the point is more 5E characters can have very high surge damage as well if they're free to burn, smites, action surges, or whatever limited bennies they get on a big encounter. Even at 7th level with a fair wind, and a little luck I wouldn't be surprised if that Party could take that Dreadnought. If they came to the fight fresh, and the CR rating would say that was impossible. Nephzinho posted:Reposting:
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Apr 13, 2018 22:19
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Elysiume posted:5e characters can nova hard. They also give the Dm the chance to really spread damage around and make the party feel like they're in danger and hanging on by a thread without just gibbing someone, and scale down appropriately as people do get knocked down.
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Apr 13, 2018 22:30
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Elysiume posted:5e characters can nova hard. Was just thinking about it. Without going full Mathhammer. My groups Dragonborn Fighter with the big sword could attack twice, surge action for two more, then Riposte from the Dreadnought's own attack (and even at 7th had so many HP he could probably tank a full rounds worth of 'naught attack). That's 5 attacks, even with AC20, with his Strength, buffs etc, most of those are going to hit. Never mind any Crits etc, that's a whole chunk of Hp's gone to one character in one round. Even if it pulverises one character a round. With the Dreadnought low Initiative it's probably going to go last, which means the party are going to have effectively 9 rounds combined to it's 1 (5 before, 4 after) to hit it with everything they've got before it gets a second round itself.
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Apr 13, 2018 22:34
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JonBolds posted:Having just wrapped up the last session of a 20th level campaign last night it is an extremely poo poo monster that will get chumped by any half-competent group of high level characters. Deptfordx posted:They wouldn't even have to be that high. My experience in 5e is to give the big bad some mooks for meatshields, or make it a CR way higher than the book would suggest. The action economy is everything, this thing attacks solo, 5 PC's will murder it. I'm honestly curious how low level you could get for a party to reliably beat that up. According to encounter building in Xanathar's guide. This thing is supposed to be on basic even grounds with 5 Level 17 PC's. Anymore then that and they will kick it's rear end on it's own. Deptfordx posted:Was just thinking about it. Without going full Mathhammer. My groups Dragonborn Fighter with the big sword could attack twice, surge action for two more, then Riposte from the Dreadnought's own attack (and even at 7th had so many HP he could probably tank a full rounds worth of 'naught attack). That's 5 attacks, even with AC20, with his Strength, buffs etc, most of those are going to hit. Never mind any Crits etc, that's a whole chunk of Hp's gone to one character in one round. Even if it pulverises one character a round. With the Dreadnought low Initiative it's probably going to go last, which means the party are going to have effectively 9 rounds combined to it's 1 (5 before, 4 after) to hit it with everything they've got before it gets a second round itself. An important thing you are forgetting about is the Dreadnoughts flight and the fact that it's canceling out your magic sword and pretty much any means of magically flying up to it. His buffs would also be canceled. Sage Genesis posted:It's not just you. Donjon visit is best used to get rid of troublesome melee warriors or casters currently out of the antimagic field. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Apr 13, 2018 |
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Apr 13, 2018 22:48
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Thinking of the Demiplane Donjon I just thought of a fun little encounter with the thing. The Dreadnought ate a Marilith a powerful Demon, that both does not need to eat and is immortal. So it would just be stuck there indefinitely if it survived. The Marilith now entertains itself by butchering anything that comes inside the Demiplane. So if you got hit by Donjon visit the Marilith will attack you. And if the Dreadnought is defeated the Marilith will be freed to fight with the weakened party. There are also many other ways to use the Demiplane. As anything trapped in there does not need to be hostile.
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Apr 13, 2018 23:05
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lofi posted:I'm playing the party wizard, going for a very 'utility spell rather than damage' build. Mostly I just wanted to check if there's anything spell-wise (or build-wise) that's grossly over-powered (or under-powered, but lol I highly doubt you will be stepping on the other players toes. You don't really fill any niche that the others in the party do already.
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Apr 13, 2018 23:09
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) or niche-stealing, I don't want to accidentally make things unfun for other players. Doesn't help that I got absurd rolls on stats (18/17/13/12/10/9 or something. My dump stat is a 9.)
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What is the pudding king????
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Apr 13, 2018 23:55
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MonsterEnvy posted:I highly doubt you will be stepping on the other players toes. You don't really fill any niche that the others in the party do already. Thanks - as I said, I've not played 5e, and it feels a lot, um, fluffier than 4e - does that bear out in play, or is it mainly the presentation that's changed? The biggest thing I had against 4e was agonisingly slow and over-granular fights.
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Apr 14, 2018 00:02
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kidkissinger posted:What is the pudding king???? and more importantly can he do anything
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Apr 14, 2018 00:17
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lofi posted:Thanks - as I said, I've not played 5e, and it feels a lot, um, fluffier than 4e - does that bear out in play, or is it mainly the presentation that's changed? The biggest thing I had against 4e was agonisingly slow and over-granular fights. It's faster then 4e in my experience. And for sure is fluffier. It's quite different from 4e. Hope you have fun when you start.
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Apr 14, 2018 00:18
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kidkissinger posted:What is the pudding king???? The Pudding King is a Deep Gnome NPC from the Adventure Out of the Abyss.  He worships the Demon Lord Juiblex and controls the Oozes in Blingdenstone. He's a fairly weak character that for some reason fights the party that should already have surpassed the point he would be easy at alone. Attempting to cast spells at them and drop green slimes on them.
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Apr 14, 2018 00:22
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MonsterEnvy posted:Hope you have fun when you start. It's adorable so far - we've got two rpg virgins, and their utter enthusiasm for the 'you are hired to guard a caravan. suddenly, goblins!' intro plot has really reminded me how fun a simple adventure can be. Two sessions in, and we've stopped to hold a proper funeral for the goblin ambushers. 
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Apr 14, 2018 00:31
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lofi posted:It's adorable so far - we've got two rpg virgins, and their utter enthusiasm for the 'you are hired to guard a caravan. suddenly, goblins!' intro plot has really reminded me how fun a simple adventure can be. Two sessions in, and we've stopped to hold a proper funeral for the goblin ambushers. Glad you and your friends are having fun. That is overall the most important thing about this hobby after all.
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Apr 14, 2018 00:59
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I'm currently DMing a lighthearted session with a couple of friends, and instead of actually bothering to roll properly for loot, I just have a DC15 check to all the non-random encounters. If they roll above 15, I do a 1-256 roll where every number corrosponds with an item on the D&D Beyond magic item list. The problem is that, as much fun as it is to see new items, it has also thrown balance right out of the window. They're currently level 5's running around with a sword of sharpness, +1 flail, ring of spell turning, plate armour of etherealness and a cloak of displacement. It's getting increasingly hard to balance encounters, because either they curb stomp everything or they get grabbed by 2 chuuls and are knocked unconcious with 2 pincer attacks. This all-random loot is funny and they seem to really enjoy a campaign where you can actually roll for more than endless potions of fire breath, but I'm having a hard time finding the right CR monsters and amount of monsters.
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Apr 14, 2018 08:14
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Encounter design is hard as hell in this - I think that is my true grievance with the system. I think you should throw scary poo poo at them and see what happens.
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Apr 14, 2018 08:18
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Psychedelicatessen posted:I'm currently DMing a lighthearted session with a couple of friends, and instead of actually bothering to roll properly for loot, I just have a DC15 check to all the non-random encounters. If they roll above 15, I do a 1-256 roll where every number corrosponds with an item on the D&D Beyond magic item list. yeah I would have used the actual magic item tables in this case, but if you are having fun with the all random loot good on yeah. Have you tried using the new Xanathar encounter building stuff. It's easier then the DMG stuff and more accurate in my opinion. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Apr 14, 2018 |
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Apr 14, 2018 08:24
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MonsterEnvy posted:yeah I would have used the actual magic item tables in this case, but if you are having fun with the all random loot good on yeah. How does Xanathar's change it compared to the DMG?
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Apr 14, 2018 08:27
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MonsterEnvy posted:Have you tried using the new Xanathar encounter building stuff. It's easier the the DMG stuff and more accurate in my opinion. This looks really good, I'll have to try it out today or tomorrow, depending on when my players got time. Thanks!
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Apr 14, 2018 08:55
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Encounter design is hard as hell in this - I think that is my true grievance with the system. I think you should throw scary poo poo at them and see what happens. Yup. In a game as relatively unstructured as 5e, plus lolrandom items throwing the power levels off even more, you can just conjure up whatever and let God sort 'em out
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Apr 14, 2018 08:59
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The Bee posted:How does Xanathar's change it compared to the DMG? Well it's an utterly different system. Based solely on CR rather then XP values. Along with ratios. Though I admit I have some difficulty understand the later stages of it.
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Apr 14, 2018 09:27
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Psychedelicatessen posted:I'm currently DMing a lighthearted session with a couple of friends, and instead of actually bothering to roll properly for loot, I just have a DC15 check to all the non-random encounters. If they roll above 15, I do a 1-256 roll where every number corrosponds with an item on the D&D Beyond magic item list. If you dont want to increase the random death count, just let them steamroll stuff for a while. As long as they are having fun they will make for some good table stories "remember when ...". Just make sure that they know (out of game) that they got some lucky finds and things will get harder as their adventures catch up with their loot.
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Apr 14, 2018 10:57
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Get the enemies to roll for random equipment too 
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Apr 14, 2018 13:51
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Encounter design is hard as hell in this - I think that is my true grievance with the system. I think you should throw scary poo poo at them and see what happens. I'm having this exact problem. I'm running a session tomorrow that's 95% combat, and I have no idea if my fights will completely murder them or be a cakewalk. I want it to be hard with a real threat of death, but it seems to be really hard to hit that sweet spot.
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Apr 14, 2018 15:26
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I find 5e encounter design to have a very slim window between "The party won't break a sweat" and "TPK" where an actual challenge occurs. I guess it's an extension of how each action can run the gamut between complete miss, very low damage, and very high damage. A single bad round of rolling on either side usually determines the entire encounter.
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Apr 14, 2018 15:35
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Okay I'm glad it's not just me building encounters that seem to be chumped by my players. Even the ones that I think are exceptionally difficult aren't really landing at an appropriate magnitude of life-threatening.
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Apr 14, 2018 15:38
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Technically it's better to low-ball an encounter, have them take a few HPs in damage and blow a couple of daily-use abilities and call it good. Then hit them with another "soft" encounter And another and another, and the difficulty will naturally increase over time as a function of their depleted abilities. The problem is that this tends to require more abilities than the group might be comfortable playing with. And that you can still have a point where it's difficult to estimate an encounter where it's so low-balled that they can do it without expending anything that matters.
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Apr 14, 2018 15:40
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I also struggle with my group insisting they long rest between basically every encounter. With Leomund's Tiny Hut and ritual casting, they've got safe full rests nearly anywhere. At least part of the group is so cautious and deliberate that it's frustrating that I can't provoke even SLIGHTLY reckless behavior. I've circumvented this by providing time-sensitive objectives that can't wait 8 hours, but it does throw a wrench in things when they're approaching nearly everything at full power.
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Apr 14, 2018 15:47
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Lurdiak posted:I find 5e encounter design to have a very slim window between "The party won't break a sweat" and "TPK" where an actual challenge occurs. I guess it's an extension of how each action can run the gamut between complete miss, very low damage, and very high damage. A single bad round of rolling on either side usually determines the entire encounter. I’ve found that giving them some “side” way to tip the battle in their favour (defensible terrain, explosive barrels, traps they found but didn’t disarm, ledges to push dudes off) lets me err on the side of more challenge. Also, at the start of each session until they’ve done it a few times I will remind them that they can flee, and I basically always make that possible even if they have to carry some friends out along the way. They might have to find another way in, recruit some help from town, rest and take different spells, or even go back to the local lord with a big “welp, good luck with those ogres” and deal with the consequences. I’ve been tempted to let people use inspiration for BitD-style flashbacks, too. “It turns out I bought some fire oil before we left town,” that sort of thing. Malpais Legate posted:I've circumvented this by providing time-sensitive objectives that can't wait 8 hours, but it does throw a wrench in things when they're approaching nearly everything at full power. Can you just ask them not to do that? My DM asked us to not cast Hold Person on everything because it was trivializing things, so we casters had an agreement to only use it once per session between us. Subjunctive fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Apr 14, 2018 |
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Apr 14, 2018 15:53
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Malpais Legate posted:I also struggle with my group insisting they long rest between basically every encounter. With Leomund's Tiny Hut and ritual casting, they've got safe full rests nearly anywhere. At least part of the group is so cautious and deliberate that it's frustrating that I can't provoke even SLIGHTLY reckless behavior. D&D resting mechanics are awful and I just chucked them and run Long Rest as a milestone the GM can hand out in the same way a Level up works. It alleviates a tonne of problems with encounters per day being able to fit into an actual story.
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