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Sergg posted:I think people should take into consideration that al-Saqr has had close friends of his tortured to death by the Syrian government before they condemn his anger & aggressive language. Sergg posted:Even if we had an Alawite living in Latakia willing to post in this thread, if that Alawite's innocent civilian friends/family had been boiled alive by al-Nusra when they overran Idlib, you should at least make an effort to understand his rage and pain when reading his pro-Assad posts. Sergg posted:We used to have a very pro-Assad poster in here from Iran who was kind of a drunkard and would make all sorts of bombastic statements about how he couldn't wait for all those treacherous Sunni fanatics to have their skin peeled off and be dumped in a ditch and Brown Moses eventually banned him for his raging murder boner, but TBH I think we should make an exception for actual Middle-Eastern posters who live this war, because they provide valuable insight into the minds of those engaged in these conflicts. As it stands us white people have chased out almost every Middle-Eastern poster from this thread except for a few Kurdish ones and al-Saqr. Sergg posted:100% agreed. I've said multiple times in this thread that Syria is essentially an Alawite-Power state, an Apartheid regime, if you will, where resources and jobs are directed from the top down through patronage networks that disproportionately favor a small minority group. Many Sunni officers living in Damascus have giant Assad banners hanging everywhere in their homes to avoid suspicion & are afraid to drive outside their neighborhood in plain clothes for fear that SAA or Shabiha who don't recognize them will stop them at a checkpoint and detain them just for being Sunni. That series of interviews was written awhile ago when Assad was more on the ropes so I don't know if things have relaxed at all since then. Jesus christ, could you be any more of a patronizing sycophant? All you're doing is posting bullshit "common sense truths" and then you moralize on them about how you're so noble and fair. The fact that you fit right in to this thread is a nice vertical slice example of this circlejerk.
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Apr 14, 2018 23:46
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Al-Saqr is actually the only good poster in this thread
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Apr 14, 2018 23:51
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Morzhovyye posted:Jesus christ, could you be any more of a patronizing sycophant? All you're doing is posting bullshit "common sense truths" and then you moralize on them about how you're so noble and fair. The fact that you fit right in to this thread is a nice vertical slice example of this circlejerk. don't have a cow man
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Apr 14, 2018 23:53
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Thump! posted:Al-Saqr is actually the only good poster in this thread Not really, but as distasteful as some of his posts may be yea, I wouldn't have him banned either.
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Apr 15, 2018 00:15
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HorrificExistence posted:There is also something to be said to the fact the rebels are by and large working class or lower, the regime are literally the top strata of Syrian society, I feel like not enough western leftists acknowledge that. I mean you see stuff like this:  And you wonder who's living in Syria and can think like they only had a war start today.
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Apr 15, 2018 00:40
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fishmech posted:I mean you see stuff like this: Suddenly, hundreds of children of government officials, who have grown fat on kleptocracy, realize what it is like to live in Idlib or Aleppo.
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Apr 15, 2018 00:43
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Morzhovyye posted:Jesus christ, could you be any more of a patronizing sycophant? All you're doing is posting bullshit "common sense truths" and then you moralize on them about how you're so noble and fair. The fact that you fit right in to this thread is a nice vertical slice example of this circlejerk. Sorry that I have basic human empathy for people living in the Middle-East who are actually affected by these conflicts and advocate that they be listened to in this thread. How about this? Hail Assad, glorious torch-bearer of the Socialist Revolution, Lion of Damascus! May his enemies drink the bitter waters of defeat and inhale the poisonous vapors of his vengeance! May every terrorist scum and bourgeoisie "doctor" and "nurse" feel the wrath of his missiles! Syrian hospitals are a hotbed of pro-Capitalist, neo-reactionary sedition and may the bombs rain from the sky to annihilate their perfidious treason! Bless you, Assad! May your crematoriums fill with the flesh of Salafi scum who dare question your infinite wisdom and generosity! You have conquered the savages of Aleppo, bested the brutes of Duoma. May you and your sons rule for a thousand generations! Soon you will bring the blinding light of Ba'athist truth to the duplicitous Kurds and their imperialist masters!
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Apr 15, 2018 01:45
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This is a pretty good burn. https://twitter.com/Elizrael/status/985223917395734528
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Apr 15, 2018 02:06
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I'm pretty confused by this. I thought that "Abu <name>" meant "child of <name>", and in this case, would mean "child of Ivanka" which I would assume was some sort of insult towards DJT. However, I've also heard that Abu <name> could also mean "father/parent of <name>" which would make a lot more sense in this case but still be weird.
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Apr 15, 2018 02:16
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It means father of 'name' it's a super common form of address.
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Apr 15, 2018 02:17
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Herstory Begins Now posted:It means father of 'name' it's a super common form of address. Thanks for the clarification. Is there any nuance to be gained from the fact that this graffiti referred to DJT as "the father of Ivanka" as opposed to some other reference?
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Apr 15, 2018 02:25
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I'm guessing it's just because Ivanka is by far his most visible child
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Apr 15, 2018 02:39
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Sergg posted:Sorry that I have basic human empathy for people living in the Middle-East who are actually affected by these conflicts and advocate that they be listened to in this thread. National Socialist Revolution, specifically. Otherwise p. good.
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Apr 15, 2018 02:55
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What's with the claim that the US used 76 missiles on one target? Did they ever say that?
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Apr 15, 2018 03:29
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HorrificExistence posted:What's with the claim that the US used 76 missiles on one target? http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-43769332 "According to US military's Joint Staff, the allocation of missiles to targets was: Barzeh research and development centre (Damascus): 57 Tomahawk and 19 JASSM-ER missiles."
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Apr 15, 2018 04:22
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Sergg posted:We used to have a very pro-Assad poster in here from Iran who was kind of a drunkard and would make all sorts of bombastic statements about how he couldn't wait for all those treacherous Sunni fanatics to have their skin peeled off and be dumped in a ditch and Brown Moses eventually banned him for his raging murder boner, but TBH I think we should make an exception for actual Middle-Eastern posters who live this war, because they provide valuable insight into the minds of those engaged in these conflicts. As it stands us white people have chased out almost every Middle-Eastern poster from this thread except for a few Kurdish ones and al-Saqr. I disagree. If someone wants to come in here and say Iran needs to support Assad to protect Shia monuments or w/e great. I always want diverse perspectives. The one thing we shouldn't tolerate though is calls for warcrimes, attacks on civilians, or celebrations of ethnic cleansing, etc. That guy was a piece of poo poo and we gained nothing from having him here crowing about how Iraq's Sunni's were being murdered. I don't think it was intolerance for that kind of poo poo that drove out locals. I wish we could more aggressively sanction those who call for war crimes regardless of target, I've oft cringed at a lot of the poo poo people post about Alawites or IS members. There's a weird kind of racism that comes out fairly often when someone exposes their self as Arab that often makes me uncomfortable, a lot of unnecessary attacks on Islam itself and lots of hypocritical accusations (lol fat lazy Gulf princes sitting around playing video games, so different from my fat American rear end that also plays 10+ hours of video games a week and lives in giant suburban home with 3+ cars). Unfortunately I fear it can't be helped, people just can't tolerate dissenting views and are going to be lovely.
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Apr 15, 2018 04:56
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Squalid posted:hypocritical accusations (lol fat lazy Gulf princes sitting around playing video games, so different from my fat American rear end that also plays 10+ hours of video games a week and lives in giant suburban home with 3+ cars). I don't think most American gamers are part of a tiny elite with total control of government within their ranks bro. Or for that matter that even like 3 nerds in this thread have 3 plus cars.
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Apr 15, 2018 04:58
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Ginger Beer Belly posted:Thanks for the clarification. Is there any nuance to be gained from the fact that this graffiti referred to DJT as "the father of Ivanka" as opposed to some other reference? There were a bunch of memes on Syrian Facebook calling him that after the airfield bombing in response to the Khan Sheikhoun attacks, because Ivanka was the one who was pushing for a response and was the most sympathetic to Assad's victims. Syrian voices seem to be saying about what you would expect. The positive spin isn't working very well. This is an equivalent response to the Khan Sheikhoun attack, when people felt that that response, while welcome, was insignificant. With this being a second offense during the Trump administration, there should've been an escalation and they didn't get it. It's still really obvious the US is coordinating with Russia and they aren't concerned with getting Assad out of power. This is all theater.
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Apr 15, 2018 05:08
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Sergg posted:We used to have a very pro-Assad poster in here from Iran who was kind of a drunkard and would make all sorts of bombastic statements about how he couldn't wait for all those treacherous Sunni fanatics to have their skin peeled off and be dumped in a ditch and Brown Moses eventually banned him for his raging murder boner, but TBH I think we should make an exception for actual Middle-Eastern posters who live this war, because they provide valuable insight into the minds of those engaged in these conflicts. As it stands us white people have chased out almost every Middle-Eastern poster from this thread except for a few Kurdish ones and al-Saqr. Cern or something like that? He was a westernerer with Iranian heritage who got all his talking points from reddit. His voice was just as useless as any of our white shitposters.
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Apr 15, 2018 05:11
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Sergg posted:Sorry that I have basic human empathy for people living in the Middle-East who are actually affected by these conflicts and advocate that they be listened to in this thread. shut the gently caress up you two faced worm. All you do is spread disinformation in support of the destruction of the middle east, then you pat yourself on the back because you think you're so reasonable and fair and noble and aww you really care™. Sergg posted:I've said multiple times in this thread that Syria is essentially an Alawite-Power state, an Apartheid regime, if you will, where resources and jobs are directed from the top down through patronage networks that disproportionately favor a small minority group. 100% false, one thing among the countless things across these threads that you've pulled out of your rear end. If you really cared you would stop posting, your shameless lies can only do harm to the people you claim to have basic human empathy for.
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Apr 15, 2018 06:29
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Morzhovyye posted:shut the gently caress up you two faced worm. All you do is spread disinformation in support of the destruction of the middle east, then you pat yourself on the back because you think you're so reasonable and fair and noble and aww you really care™. spicy posting
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Apr 15, 2018 07:27
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Ginger Beer Belly posted:Thanks for the clarification. Is there any nuance to be gained from the fact that this graffiti referred to DJT as "the father of Ivanka" as opposed to some other reference? Its more for meter (as in the poetic kind) than anything else. Abu iv/an/ka al/lah yeh/deek Dhar/btek mithl fas/wat el/deek
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Apr 15, 2018 08:19
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In my opinion Regime supporters are the most despicable beings you can ever engage with in a conversation. They are ideologues woven by fascist rhetoric and are often quite violent when confronted with facts. I had a Lebanese guy almost lunge at me with a knife in hand before being kicked out in bar because I confronted him with facts. They are pretty much akin to engaging with Skin-heads/GoldenDawn/Brown Shirts in conversation. The only exception is that the older generation whom support the regime do not have the strength to physically brawl with you so they will call you names instead.
Savy Saracen salad fucked around with this message at 09:25 on Apr 15, 2018 |
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Apr 15, 2018 09:17
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If any of you are in Berlin on April 24th I'll be at an event launching the chemical weapons evidence dataset created by the Syrian Archive, and taking part in a panel about the use of that sort of evidence in justice and accountability. Event details are here: https://www.facebook.com/events/228152094587928/
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Apr 15, 2018 09:34
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Brown Moses posted:on April 24th I'll be...launching the chemical weapons
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Apr 15, 2018 09:57
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Ginger Beer Belly posted:I'm pretty confused by this. I thought that "Abu <name>" meant "child of <name>", and in this case, would mean "child of Ivanka" which I would assume was some sort of insult towards DJT. However, I've also heard that Abu <name> could also mean "father/parent of <name>" which would make a lot more sense in this case but still be weird. Abu: father of Ben/Bin/Ibn: son of Abu Rayḥan Muḥammad ibn Aḥmad Al-Biruni: Muhammad, Father of Rayan, son of Ahmad, from the suburbs
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Apr 15, 2018 10:32
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Morzhovyye posted:shut the gently caress up you two faced worm. All you do is spread disinformation in support of the destruction of the middle east, then you pat yourself on the back because you think you're so reasonable and fair and noble and aww you really care™. Weird how the Alawites only make up 12% of the population but comprise the majority of professional soldiers & 80% of the officers in the SAA. Must be lucky I guess. Maybe being raised in Alawite culture just imparts an innate martial skill. It's almost like a state apparatus run by a small minority intent on perpetuating high levels of social dominance has to use disproportionate amounts of violence to keep extracting value from the majority of the population. They're kind of running low on military-aged males, though. Sure you can temporarily import some Hazaras, Iraqi PMUs, and Hezbollah guys but what'll they do when the war's over 10 years from now? Maybe they should hold a recruitment drive, dress up in white shirts and go knock on doors of the remaining houses and start converting people. Excuse me, sir, have you heard the good Word of Assad? Does Assad have a book, actually? Like Mao's red book, or Gaddafi's green book? You can't be a proper madman without a little book to pass out. It's actually a pretty interesting anthropological case study. You have a group of isolated people who live in the mountains, they develop their own syncretic religion that mixes ancient Phoenician tenets with Christianity and Islam, but the Sunni majority in the Ottoman Empire hates them and persecutes them to such an extent that they have to shroud their religious beliefs in mystery and hide their holy books. As a result, many Alawites don't even know the tenets of their own religion and thus they relied on secularism of Arab nationalism to carry the day. They were social pariahs on par with Untouchables, Jews, or Roma. Lots of em were so poor their only chance for upwards mobility was to join the Army, and by the 1960s they start to comprise almost half of the officer corps. Suddenly Hafez Assad is the President and he inherits this clunky, dysfunctional Leninist state. He purges a bunch of Sunnis and starts filling the upper echelons with Alawites because they're people he trusts, then he starts liberalizing the economy. Who reaps the benefits of these new privatizations, contracts, and corruption? Why it's our new buddies, the Alawite dominated military-industrial complex! Religious and working class Sunnis got hopping mad about it, and they launched a rebellion alongside radical leftists in the early 1980s which is mercilessly crushed. Hafez learns he can't trust those dastardly Sunnis so he appoints more and more Alawites to high-level posts within the military. Eventually his son, Bashar Assad takes power but the corruption and patronage networks continue to create economic instability & resentment in the working class. There's a brief window where Bashar tries this whole "Damascus Spring" thing for about a year but he gets tired of that. These dissenters are just unreasonable, they want stuff like "free speech" and "free assembly". He goes on mass-arrests to round up these rabble-rousers. Clearly his measures were very popular, since he won his first election with 99.1% of the vote and his next election with 96.7% of the vote. Clearly not THAT popular though, since he's had to kill hundreds of thousands of people, bomb cities to rubble, and make half his population refugees or internally displaced persons. All for the glory of the Revolution, right comrade? Clearly I'm just an ignorant rube who knows nothing about Syria and I definitely don't have a bachelor's degree in history with a focus on Middle-Eastern studies. Squalid posted:I disagree. If someone wants to come in here and say Iran needs to support Assad to protect Shia monuments or w/e great. I always want diverse perspectives. The one thing we shouldn't tolerate though is calls for warcrimes, attacks on civilians, or celebrations of ethnic cleansing, etc. That guy was a piece of poo poo and we gained nothing from having him here crowing about how Iraq's Sunni's were being murdered. I'm not comfortable with the racism and bloodlust either but I look at it in context for knowing what the supporters of these guys actually think, with the important caveat they may be severely mentally ill or drunk when saying those things. Yeah, Czer was happy to celebrate ethic cleansing, but if you view him as a sad and powerless alcoholic desperately attaching his identity to a warring party the way one might attach their self-worth to a sports team because he lacks his own real-world accomplishments, it's more understandable. You just have to look past those calls for indiscriminate murder and realize the person is really messed up due to their own insecurities (and alcoholism) and that those calls for violence against defenseless people come from a mindset of that moreso reflects their own personal shortcomings.
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Apr 15, 2018 10:39
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Savy Saracen salad posted:In my opinion Regime supporters are the most despicable beings you can ever engage with in a conversation. They are ideologues woven by fascist rhetoric and are often quite violent when confronted with facts. I had a Lebanese guy almost lunge at me with a knife in hand before being kicked out in bar because I confronted him with facts. They are pretty much akin to engaging with Skin-heads/GoldenDawn/Brown Shirts in conversation. The only exception is that the older generation whom support the regime do not have the strength to physically brawl with you so they will call you names instead. OK you can't just drop that story without giving more details. Where did this happen? What was the comment that broke his brain & made him finally pull out his knife?
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Apr 15, 2018 10:41
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Can someone help me out with terminology here? I've been using terms like "Apartheid State" and "Alawite-Power State" to describe Syria, but is there a more accurate description. I know most of you will probably spring for "hereditary fascist dictatorship" but I want a label that recognizes the Alawite dominance over the political, financial, and military apparatuses of the state. Right now the examples I'm coming up with are Sunnis in Iraq, Tutsis in Rwanda, whites in Rhodesia & South Africa, Sunnis in Bahrain, Tigrayans in Ethiopia, , and various other colonial states. Would the term "Minoritarian Oligarchy" suffice? The resident tankies seem to get their feathers rather ruffled when you start using words like "hereditary fascist dictatorship" or "apartheid state". This isn't to dismiss the losses that Alawites have suffered in the war. 1/3 to 1/2 of all military-aged males. That's quite a demographic issue in the long run and Assad is willing to fight to the last Alawite to hold onto power since most of them are just his pawns manipulated by social forces beyond their control. Sergg fucked around with this message at 11:15 on Apr 15, 2018 |
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Apr 15, 2018 11:03
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Sergg posted:Can someone help me out with terminology here? I've been using terms like "Apartheid State" and "Alawite-Power State" to describe Syria, but is there a more accurate description. I know most of you will probably spring for "hereditary fascist dictatorship" but I want a label that recognizes the Alawite dominance over the political, financial, and military apparatuses of the state. Right now the examples I'm coming up with are Sunnis in Iraq, Tutsis in Rwanda, whites in Rhodesia & South Africa, Sunnis in Bahrain, Tigrayans in Ethiopia, , and various other colonial states. Sectarian Authoritarianism? EDIT: I feel oligopoly doesn't do it justice. Even if the Alawites have extensive privileges they don't really have more political power in any conventional sense, it's all centralized from Assad. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 11:15 on Apr 15, 2018 |
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Apr 15, 2018 11:11
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MiddleOne posted:Sectarian Authoritarianism? 80% of military officers and the lion's share of economic benefits and patronage networks seems to equal a lot of power, but not necessarily political power to assert that against Assad. Maybe Sectarian Dictatorship? I mean... Assad is kind of throwing them all into the meatgrinder along with as many mercs as he can find. That one Druze commander who held Deir Ezzor against ISIS for years was pretty badass too but he got popped by an ISIS landmine. Upon further reading it seems he was also quite fond of torture and had sanctions against him in Europe so I guess he's maybe not as cool as I thought.
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Apr 15, 2018 11:31
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Sergg posted:100% agreed. I've said multiple times in this thread that Syria is essentially an Alawite-Power state, an Apartheid regime, if you will, where resources and jobs are directed from the top down through patronage networks that disproportionately favor a small minority group. Many Sunni officers living in Damascus have giant Assad banners hanging everywhere in their homes to avoid suspicion & are afraid to drive outside their neighborhood in plain clothes for fear that SAA or Shabiha who don't recognize them will stop them at a checkpoint and detain them just for being Sunni. That series of interviews was written awhile ago when Assad was more on the ropes so I don't know if things have relaxed at all since then. I really have no idea, can you tell an Alawite from a Sunni by observation only? What about a Shia? Thx
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Apr 15, 2018 11:44
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OK I'm going to leave out the parts where you seem to have substituted book report level filler that is peppered with verbose snark in place any kind of substance:Sergg posted:Weird how the Alawites only make up 12% of the population but comprise the majority of professional soldiers & 80% of the officers in the SAA. I see you've skimmed the wikipedia page for the syrian army, look out brown moses! There's a sentence in front of the one you plucked from that page that says that the majority of the syrian military is sunni. So your point here seems to be that the army has a disproportionate number of alawite officers, noted and moving on. quote:He purges a bunch of Sunnis and starts filling the upper echelons with Alawites because they're people he trusts, then he starts liberalizing the economy. Why it's our new buddies, the Alawite dominated military-industrial complex! Okay, after hafez takes power he puts his alawite buddies into positions power. quote:Religious and working class Sunnis got hopping mad about it, and they launched a rebellion alongside radical leftists in the early 1980s which is mercilessly crushed. I don't think radical leftists supported the muslim brotherhood, and I don't think it's as much of a popular rebellion as this incredibly vague description is making it out to be. (and as an aside your attempt at sneaking "working class" in as if i'm the manchurian candidate and that was suppose to activate me didn't seem to work either.) quote:Hafez learns he can't trust those dastardly Sunnis so he appoints more and more Alawites to high-level posts within the military. Okay, more alawites appointed to various kinds of government or army positions. A disproportionate level of alawites in the government and army leadership does not an apartheid state make. Please go gently caress yourself for likening it to apartheid and making the word meaningless like the #HolocaustAleppo clowns. quote:Clearly I'm just an ignorant rube who knows nothing about Syria 
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Apr 15, 2018 12:07
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Sergg posted:Can someone help me out with terminology here? I've been using terms like "Apartheid State" to describe Syria, but is there a more accurate description. I know most of you will probably spring for "hereditary fascist dictatorship" but I want a label that recognizes the Alawite dominance over the political, financial, and military apparatuses of the state. Right now the examples I'm coming up with are... whites in Rhodesia & South Africa Is it too late to double up that request to go gently caress yourself?
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Apr 15, 2018 12:08
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Morzhovyye posted:Okay, more alawites appointed to various kinds of government or army positions. Um, what's the difference?
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Apr 15, 2018 12:53
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I mean, isn't that a thing that jumps out at you, especially considering the regimes claims of being non-secterian?
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Apr 15, 2018 12:58
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Sectarian Patronage State
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Apr 15, 2018 13:22
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Where does the butchering of Sunni villages by Alawite gangs fall on the scale?
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Apr 15, 2018 13:27
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Sergg posted:OK you can't just drop that story without giving more details. Where did this happen? What was the comment that broke his brain & made him finally pull out his knife? That was in Beirut Summer 2017 I was giving a seminar in the AUB about my PhD project. I was at a bar with a group of expats when we were joined by a group of Lebanese coworkers and with them that guy whom kept spouting bullshit. I don't quite remember what drove the conversation to politics but the guy began saying Hezbollah protects secularism and other mind boggling stuff. I am from the Arab world myself but I look a bit like a westerner and he was surprised when I was able to respond to him in Arabic and tell him what you are saying is nonsense. He then went on an Alex Jones style rant about how Assad is virtuous and mighty and good because he keeps the spirit of resistance alive (lol) and fights the Wahhabis and the Americans and the Jews. I told him Assad and his Father used to run black sites for the CIA to torture prisoners and that the Baath regime used to ship hundreds of terrorists in government sponsored buses across the border to Iraq which resulted in Iraq withdrawing its ambassador in 2009. He then lost it and took out a pocket knife and lunged at me. Thankfully we were able to restrain him and no one got hurt, and he got kicked out of the bar.
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Apr 15, 2018 14:02
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Russia sure does have a lot of clumsy journalists. https://twitter.com/leonidragozin/status/985444252497993728
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Apr 15, 2018 14:24
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