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xzzy posted:You call that disorganized? Why can't I stop screaming? For pictures of my Newbie Base Mk 2: this is what I was working with yesterday at the beginning of the day.     It was disorganized, it was sloppy, oil production wasn't up yet but plotted, I had a  overengineered belt layout for my science labs, and most importantly the zedprime cardinal sin of building most everything I needed to keep expanding by hand. It basically served to make red and green research and nothing else. This is what I wound up with by the end of the night - Newbie Base Mk 3: I redesigned my red and green research area. Not pictured is the logistics buffer chest I added to the inserters.  My research labs: The belts are redesigned so that I can pull from three belts easily. My blue research is coming from up north, my military research is being pumped in from the south side of that pond in the corner.  Steel production and my main metal busses. You can see my belt production area in the top left, chips below that, and military research running off the screen below that.  A better shot of the belt production, as well as where blue research and electric motors lives. I need to redo my buffer chests here to better reflect what I've learned.  I don't have a good shot of my oil production, but it's fine. I'm pulling my layout pretty much verbatim from the Katherin of Sky tutorials.
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Apr 14, 2018 02:12
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Ms. Chanandler Bong posted:Anyone know the solution to the pressing q to remove item from hand doesn't work bug? Pretty annoying Bind that action to mouse3 so it becomes the middle-mouse to remove item from hand doesn't work bug.
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Apr 14, 2018 03:02
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Holy mother of gently caress is angles bobs slow as hell especially with AII's burner bonanza , I loving love it. Spent so far 4 hours loving around, had to gen a new map because default evolution was cranking loving fast and  at still relying heavily on burners and it already sitting at 5% especially with bobs enemies.
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Apr 14, 2018 04:28
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I'm playing the 0.16 Seablock modpack. How the gently caress do I get a desert tree for a desert tree seed generator? I'm trying to get wood without going through cellulose paste, since I haven't researched the precursors for it yet. edit: figured it out. apparently, they spawn way the gently caress out there in worm island territory. Did a 1 tile landbridge out here after radar picked it up. 
Ambaire fucked around with this message at 12:42 on Apr 14, 2018 |
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Apr 14, 2018 10:17
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Built my first tank this afternoon. Went out hunting, only I didn't bring enough ammunition and ended up getting chased by two dozen angry insects. Fortunately I had the presence of mind to lead the horde back to my base of operations, where my well-stocked turret defense system made short work of the stragglers.  
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Apr 14, 2018 13:23
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Alkydere posted:Yeah as I said when the other guy was talking about Angelbob's, the biggest source of frustration in Bob's is circuits because dude does NOT let up. Tier 0.5 are okay, 1.0 aren't that bad, 1.5 are actually easier than 1.0 by a bit but aren't used by much besides basic bots, and then tier 2.0 is "holyfuckwhat?" Yeah I'm looking to use the catalysts to get specific ores, and I just finished this... thing... that produces the first three circuit types and should let me manufacture the first three sciences too! I also since I started producing white circuits, am now able to build logistics robots that should hopefully help with later stages of complex production.  e: so I just automated the production of logistics robots using logistics robots and it just now occurs to me that this might possibly be a bad thing. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Apr 14, 2018 |
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Apr 14, 2018 13:32
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OwlFancier posted:Yeah I'm looking to use the catalysts to get specific ores, and I just finished this... thing... that produces the first three circuit types and should let me manufacture the first three sciences too! I also since I started producing white circuits, am now able to build logistics robots that should hopefully help with later stages of complex production. This is actually really tidy for Bobs.
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Apr 14, 2018 14:38
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Wow logistics robots are insanely good. I'm literally now automating the production of logistics stuff so I can place logistics stuff in the satellite view and it'll build itself. Also they make more of themselves so it's slowly accelerating production of all the stuff they're involved in.
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Apr 14, 2018 15:37
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Yeah they're really powerful. I thought it takes a lot of the challenge away myself and try mostly use belts. Personal roboports are an exception.
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Apr 14, 2018 15:48
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I might try belts only in vanilla but with the amount of different crap I'm handling with the mods I think I'm going to need to use robots.
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Apr 14, 2018 15:58
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Belts remain a requirement even into the late game for bulk manufacturing
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Apr 14, 2018 16:05
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Yeah that too they're significantly faster than the bots even with low tier belts so once I move into mass production I'll use more of them. As it stands this modpack's kinda proving more about getting through the tech tree to unlock all the infrastructure before I look into massively expanding how much of it I build. No point building a production chain en masse if I then need to insert an extra step later on.
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Apr 14, 2018 16:14
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M_Gargantua posted:Belts remain a requirement even into the late game for bulk manufacturing Nah, bots or trains are always better compared to belts, in all ways except power used.
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Apr 14, 2018 16:23
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Nukes kind of flipped the switch on belt superiority I think, at least to make mass logistics bots more capital practical. The latest belt patches have been trying to at least close the gap in computation required. You should use belts though because 100% bots turns into sort of just less complicated Anno.
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Apr 14, 2018 17:17
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Belts are more aesthetically pleasing than bots. 
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Apr 14, 2018 17:22
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Solumin posted:Belts are more aesthetically pleasing than bots. zedprime posted:
Agreed with both. I hope they find a way to make the choice between belts and bots interesting.
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Apr 14, 2018 18:26
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Crazy ideas for making belts more competitive: Add a "middle lane" that can only be formed by merging from both sides. The middle lane acts as a loader. Assemblers can load/unload directly onto underground belts passing under them, enabling better beacon layouts. Bots have much less effective range within beacon fields. Fuel quality effects burner inserter speed. Nuclear-powered burner inserters become super effective. Bots effective range depends on cargo weight. (Buff to restocking ammo and land mines, nerf to assembling heavy machinery.)
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Apr 15, 2018 02:28
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zedprime posted:Nukes kind of flipped the switch on belt superiority I think, at least to make mass logistics bots more capital practical. The latest belt patches have been trying to at least close the gap in computation required. Yup. Before nuclear plants the enormous amount of power require to run that many robots was very onerous. Imagine generating GW of power with nothing but coal and solar. It can be done sure but the effort required was massive. I never got to GWs worth of power before nukes. Then nuclear power came along and my first megafactory had a few dozen reactors generating I don't even know how the gently caress much power. I had such a ridiculous infrastructure going for them I didn't even need to turn them off. Just stuff them full of uranium as fast as they'll eat it and call it a day.
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Apr 15, 2018 02:36
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Yup. Before nuclear plants the enormous amount of power require to run that many robots was very onerous. Imagine generating GW of power with nothing but coal and solar. It can be done sure but the effort required was massive. I never got to GWs worth of power before nukes. Fun fact: For truly huge bot bases, this is exactly what you need to do, because giant fields of solar panels require less CPU time because the game merges all connected panels/accumulators into one giant object, instead of having to simulate all the heat/steam pipes. Granted, I'm pretty sure we're talking something like multiple terawatt bases at that point, but still.
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Apr 15, 2018 06:08
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A fourth belt tier (perhaps these could require power or lube topups) and speed module support for inserters would really give a boost to belts.
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Apr 15, 2018 06:35
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I've hit that point in the game where I need to get oil running and scale up my smelting and go exploring for more ore and oh look the pollution cloud is close to the biters... That is, the overwhelming stage.
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Apr 15, 2018 06:38
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yoloer420 posted:A fourth belt tier (perhaps these could require power or lube topups) and speed module support for inserters would really give a boost to belts. The problem is you'd need to upgrade inserters to grab off of those faster tiers. Anything faster than Blue Belts and even Fast insertrs start having trouble...and if you upgrade inserters well then you effectively upgrade belts too. I would like it if you had some sort of express belt that you can't grab off of though. Sort of like a "highway" belt that is only for getting stuff to from A to B, and you need ot branch stuff off of onto slower belts. Solumin posted:I've hit that point in the game where I need to get oil running and scale up my smelting and go exploring for more ore and oh look the pollution cloud is close to the biters... Incorrect, other than getting oil running, that's the eternal stage
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Apr 15, 2018 06:41
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True that! Despite all my play time, I've only gotten to this stage a couple times. Something always stops me from playing for a few weeks, and then I never get back into it. So I have no real experience with this eternal stage. like i should really be working on my LP instead...
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Apr 15, 2018 06:45
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DeathSandwich posted:Why can't I stop screaming? Oh, that is weeeird. The factory I made more recently looked like that. Same place for everything in relation to each other. Same concrete laid out in the same ways. Same power spot with the science in that spot. Even the production areas are the same. That is super weird.
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Apr 15, 2018 07:29
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I've said it before, but all they need to do with belts is to enable Loaders in stock.
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Apr 15, 2018 10:32
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I have the feeling they're going to nerf bots instead. Enable logistic bot collisions. 
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Apr 15, 2018 10:40
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Alkydere posted:I would like it if you had some sort of express belt that you can't grab off of though. Sort of like a "highway" belt that is only for getting stuff to from A to B, and you need ot branch stuff off of onto slower belts. I believe that is called "a train".
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Apr 15, 2018 10:42
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this is gonna sound really stupid, but I'm in need of some maths explanation. according to this and this online production calculator, 1 blue assembler can create 3 yellow belts per second, or 180 per minute. But I don't see how that's possible: raw production for 1 yellow belt is .5 seconds, a blue assembler has a production modifier of 0.75, so final production time for 1 belt is 0.5/0.75 = 0.67. This means that number of belts produced per second is 1/.67 = 1.50, or 90 belts per minute, while both calculators claim 3 belts per second or 180 per minute. What am I doing wrong/not seeing/screwing up basic maths?
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Apr 15, 2018 11:10
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The recipe makes 2.
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Apr 15, 2018 11:22
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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misguided rage posted:The recipe makes 2. God.loving.damned.
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Apr 15, 2018 11:24
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Solumin posted:I have the feeling they're going to nerf bots instead. I feel like that's inevitable for balance, honestly. Right now there is no mechanic to prevent logistics bots from simply getting infinitely large throughput. Belts require space; if you want to upgrade your throughput with those after you've unlocked express belts, you need to put more design work into the area, which is good gameplay. Bots you can just keep automatically dumping into the system, and you'll never reach a point where you have to change your design other than putting more roboports somewhere, anywhere in range. Giving bots collision means that a given chest could only output so much resources and you'd have to design around it. Another option might be to change the way bots carry things fundamentally so that there's a design element to their transport network. Having you designate their routes or something. It wouldn't make bots less unbalanced but at least it would have the strict upgrade system include more actual gameplay. I'm not sure how you could do that, though. Might be fun to think about.
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Apr 15, 2018 11:35
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Restrict the number of bots allowed in given airspace. Reduce their speed. Remove them from the game and just have the ones that deliver things to your inventory.
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Apr 15, 2018 11:47
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Nah, if bots slowed down in beacon effect fields, that would do it. They're excellent for 90% of designs, and suboptimal for edgecases, and bad for sloppy beacons-anywhere design. Belts are cool everywhere.
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Apr 15, 2018 11:48
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Bot collision-detection sounds like it could eat a crazy amount of UPS. I still like the idea of restricting the number of bots that can access a chest at the same time. You'd achieve the same throughput-throttling, and you could even tie in some infinite-research to increase the limit.
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Apr 15, 2018 11:49
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Bot power usage could scale in proportion to speed and carried load like real air vehicles do, so as you improve bot capabilities, they start to crowd out your base with more roboports to charge 'em all.
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Apr 15, 2018 14:17
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 This is what I ended up with for oil processing at my last base. Please ignore the iron ore belts, they're just passing through. Crude is trained in just offscreen to the South. Does anyone have a tidier layout that they like to use? This one obviously can't be expanded any further and requires twiddling every so often to keep from running out of one or the other oil product. I was surprised by how much rocket fuel my trains used. The incremental improvement of nuclear fuel doesn't seem worth it since I've struggled to produce enough U-235.
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Apr 15, 2018 15:28
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 This is how I almost always build my first refinery. Liquids and solid inputs (coal&iron plates) go up the middle in a straight vertical, refineries and assemblers go off to the right and outputs get trained or bussed off the left. This way to add additional refineries or assemblers I just expand upwards to add new lines or expand existing lines by pushing right.
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Apr 15, 2018 16:03
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LLSix posted:
Less layout, more layout strategy: leave one direction free to expand in, especially for refineries. (not inlined because they're big) https://i.bf1c.us/Screen%20Shot%202018-04-15%20at%2011.01.49.png : This is the initial area I started refining and cracking in a previous game. The "red chip sink" station came later. https://i.bf1c.us/Screen%20Shot%202018-04-15%20at%2011.02.23.png : Note the disabled "red chip sink" station (it's disabled because there's no space to unload a train), and how far south the refineries to the west of it stretch.
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Apr 15, 2018 16:07
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A simple and CPU friendly nerf to bots: Logistics networks now require 'processing power' generated by 'sever farm' buildings. The costs scale based on the number of bots in the network doing jobs: 0-10 bots 0pp per bot task 11-20 bots 1pp per new bot task 21-30 bots 2pp per new bot task etc. If there isn't enough pp in the network to accommodate new tasks they get put in a queue while waiting for current tasks to complete. This means multiple small bot networks would be more efficient in both resources and power, but you could still build a mega bot base if you really wanted to spend the circuits and power. For extra fun you could make the server farms get adjacency bonuses like reactors, except they increase production multiplicatively and power consumption exponentially.
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Apr 15, 2018 16:16
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LLSix posted:I was surprised by how much rocket fuel my trains used. The incremental improvement of nuclear fuel doesn't seem worth it since I've struggled to produce enough U-235. Nuclear fuel is a pretty big upgrade in terms of acceleration (250% vs 180% for rocket fuel) but its also a huge upgrade in how much energy it provides and in turn how long it lasts in a train or boiler. Solid fuel is 25MJ, Rocket fuel is 225MJ, and nuclear fuel is 1.21GJ (1210MJ). But it takes U235 which is awfully rare until you have koverax enrichment going which in turns takes quite a bit of regular uranium processing. But once you have koverax going its a very fast positive feedback loop in generating more U235.
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Apr 15, 2018 16:24
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