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So back to regeneration chat, I want to add that regeneration has some baggage that indestructible doesn't have. Indestructability is self-explanatory: can't be destroyed. Maybe new players get confused about reducing toughness to zero, but it's nothing compared to regeneration. I'd see new players try to use a regeneration ability to bring back a creature that was just destroyed by a Shock or something, immediately after. Or somethings later on in the turn, or turns later like it was unearth without the exile rider. All those are pretty logical interpretations of "regeneration". It was worse than the problems with "to your mana pool" (lemme go find a Forest with my Llanowar Elves) or split second (I had arguments with players that yes, they did still need to have priority to play a split second spell; this led to a player throwing a full soda at another player over an Extirpate, good times).
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Apr 16, 2018 03:02
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AnEdgelord posted:Mox Amber will be amazing if there is a shell capable of exploiting it, but absent that its gonna be a dud. I would only ever buy into it if I knew there was an archetype that ran it and not one moment before. It's more Fast Ramp than Fast Mana and it's really bad color fixing. I would be really surprised if it's ever "amazing" in any shell.
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Apr 16, 2018 03:06
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vandalism posted:Is mox amber gonna be 4 of in every deck? Or just most decks? It sucks to have a mana rock that can be deactivated by Ravenous Chupacabra, and it's legendary itself. The only color with a 1-drop legendary is green, and green has Llanowar Elves back. Other colors need at least 2 and at that point, it's... just a rock. That's legendary. That can be deactivated by Ravenous Chupacabra. Legendary creatures and planeswalkers is a pretty nice list, yeah, and as a zero-mana mana-producing artifact it's definitely got potential, but needing something else there really limits it.
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Apr 16, 2018 03:07
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precision posted:Mox Amber seems like it would only be very good if it said "permanent" instead of "creature or Planeswalker" That's not how colors work.
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Apr 16, 2018 03:13
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It'd let Legion's Landing qualify but that's pretty much the start and end of the list.
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Apr 16, 2018 03:22
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If legendaries is a deck it will be the first time ever, and the mox is hindered by the thing already needing to be in play which is kind of counter to what moxes want to do to begin with. So it's probably meh. That Karn though, if there is a tiny window where it's around $20 then it's certainly a safe buy.
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Apr 16, 2018 03:25
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Some Numbers posted:That's not how colors work. You're right, I was thinking that "add one mana" would happen even if there was no color, I hadn't looked at the card recently
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Apr 16, 2018 03:28
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:It'd let Legion's Landing qualify but that's pretty much the start and end of the list. Oath of Nissa + 2x Mox Amber would allow for a turn 1 Tibalt. Obviously this scenario is too powerful to be allowed. I mean sure you could use a red creature instead, but its nowhere near as impressive.
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Apr 16, 2018 03:31
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:I'm sorry you were dropped on day 2 to a cheater.
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Apr 16, 2018 03:33
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there is no universe where karn does not hit $60 at some point while it's in standard maybe higher
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Apr 16, 2018 03:39
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Mox Amber is going in my Sultai value deck running Jace, VP and motherfucking Ashiooooooook! 
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Apr 16, 2018 03:43
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mcmagic posted:It's more Fast Ramp than Fast Mana and it's really bad color fixing. I would be really surprised if it's ever "amazing" in any shell. Eh, if there are a number of cheap hybrid mana legendary creatures or planeswalkers in Return to Return to Ravnica (or whatever the sets after the Core Set are) then Mox Amber might be pretty good color fixing. The card is unimpressive though and it's not particularly playable in eternal formats except maybe in Baral Storm if there's some other way to turn it on or use it as fuel.
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Apr 16, 2018 03:52
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Paradoxical Moxen when??
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Apr 16, 2018 03:58
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I look forward to converting my legendary wildcards into karn's because LOL at buying standard only cards in paper anymore.
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Apr 16, 2018 04:06
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myDad posted:Paradoxical Moxen when?? I want to know the same thing. I saw someone on a stream last week put up consistent wins with the deck below and it made me really want to try it. Deck: Aetherflux   //Main 4 Aether Hub 2 Aetherflux Reservoir 3 Battle at the Bridge 4 Cultivator's Caravan 4 Fetid Pools 4 Foundry Inspector 2 Inventors' Fair 3 Island 3 Metalspinner's Puzzleknot 4 Metalwork Colossus 3 Paradoxical Outcome 4 Prophetic Prism 2 Scavenger Grounds 4 Servo Schematic 4 Spire of Industry 5 Swamp 2 Tezzeret the Schemer 3 The Immortal Sun //Sideboard 2 Aethersphere Harvester 4 Glint-Nest Crane 3 Hostage Taker 1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation 2 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship 3 Spell Pierce  Display deck statistics
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Apr 16, 2018 04:07
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Hellsau posted:Eh, if there are a number of cheap hybrid mana legendary creatures or planeswalkers in Return to Return to Ravnica (or whatever the sets after the Core Set are) then Mox Amber might be pretty good color fixing. The card is unimpressive though and it's not particularly playable in eternal formats except maybe in Baral Storm if there's some other way to turn it on or use it as fuel. Yeah but it doesn't help you cast any of those creatures if you don't already have that color mana. And the gold ones are mana intensive.
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Apr 16, 2018 04:07
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:The only thing about McMagic's magic posting that is bad are his ellipses. I remember this, and I remember being extremely confused why you kept it up on page 667. It was because I changed the android app from showing 40 posts per page to 20 in the middle of that page and forgot about it. LifeLynx posted:So back to regeneration chat, I want to add that regeneration has some baggage that indestructible doesn't have. Indestructability is self-explanatory: can't be destroyed. Maybe new players get confused about reducing toughness to zero, but it's nothing compared to regeneration. Indestructible has rules baggage too. You can't choose an indestructible creature with Drop of Honey or Porphyry Nodes.
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Apr 16, 2018 04:20
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AlternateNu posted:Mox Amber is going in my Sultai value deck running Jace, VP and motherfucking Ashiooooooook! Sultai is low-key the best good stuff/value colors. Incidentally I’d take a decklist whenever you feel generous.
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Apr 16, 2018 04:20
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Why exactly is new Karn good? How far do we have to upgrade Jace, Cunning Castaway to be a $30 card?
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Apr 16, 2018 04:26
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Are there any 3 color combinations that stick out as particularly bad at making a goodstuff.dec? They all seem pretty decent but I have large gaps in my knowledge of cards. Personally I've always liked Esper and Bant the most.
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Apr 16, 2018 04:26
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TheDemon posted:Why exactly is new Karn good? How far do we have to upgrade Jace, Cunning Castaway to be a $30 card? Karn is colorless, draws a card every turn, represents extra threats (silvered cards), works well in multiples, and can make a quick clock once control is established.
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Apr 16, 2018 04:28
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I think ashiok is truly bad.
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Apr 16, 2018 04:28
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Esper isn't very good at doing generic good stuff. RUG is almost Strictly Worse than any other shard/wedge with 2 of its 3 colors. Bant is probably the ultimate midrange color in terms of value creatures, but the lack of good interaction (at least in modern) kinda holds it back.
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Apr 16, 2018 04:30
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precision posted:Are there any 3 color combinations that stick out as particularly bad at making a goodstuff.dec? They all seem pretty decent but I have large gaps in my knowledge of cards. Esper and Temur are the only ones that have never been a top tier choice in Modern. Everything else has kind of had their chance to shine.
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Apr 16, 2018 04:32
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I guess when I say Esper I really mean "Azorius Control that splashes Black" and it's true that isn't generic goodstuff
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Apr 16, 2018 04:50
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TheDemon posted:Why exactly is new Karn good? How far do we have to upgrade Jace, Cunning Castaway to be a $30 card? The number of 4 cost planeswalkers that draw you cards without severe specifications while ticking up on loyalty are vanishingly few.
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Apr 16, 2018 04:56
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I think the Mardu deck in Modern might be the first time in Magic history that a RWB deck was good
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Apr 16, 2018 04:59
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LifeLynx posted:So back to regeneration chat, I want to add that regeneration has some baggage that indestructible doesn't have. Indestructability is self-explanatory: can't be destroyed. Maybe new players get confused about reducing toughness to zero, but it's nothing compared to regeneration. I'd see new players try to use a regeneration ability to bring back a creature that was just destroyed by a Shock or something, immediately after. Or somethings later on in the turn, or turns later like it was unearth without the exile rider. All those are pretty logical interpretations of "regeneration". It was worse than the problems with "to your mana pool" (lemme go find a Forest with my Llanowar Elves) or split second (I had arguments with players that yes, they did still need to have priority to play a split second spell; this led to a player throwing a full soda at another player over an Extirpate, good times). How on earth did I not go through these things in 2008? The biggest gotcha that I ever went through was learning that combat damage used the stack in 2009, and then it all went away two months later.
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Apr 16, 2018 04:59
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TheKingofSprings posted:The number of 4 cost planeswalkers that draw you cards without severe specifications while ticking up on loyalty are vanishingly few. Also, his -1 synergizes amazingly - not only does your opponent have to kill Karn outright, but even if they do, a second Karn can get you the card the first one exiled!
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Apr 16, 2018 05:04
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Elyv posted:I think the Mardu deck in Modern might be the first time in Magic history that a RWB deck was good Mardu was plenty good in khans standard and also mardu vehicles is a thing. Unless you meant modern only?
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Apr 16, 2018 05:10
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ShaneB posted:Mardu was plenty good in khans standard and also mardu vehicles is a thing. Unless you meant modern only? No, I just forgot. It's still been very rare historically, although reasonably common lately.
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Apr 16, 2018 05:16
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I like to see Mardu doing well, its no Grixis but it occupies a solid third place for my favorite color combo after Sultai.
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Apr 16, 2018 05:26
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Mardu is probably tied with Esper as my favorite 3-color set. It's nice to see it get some love. (I like pretty much anything with White and Black though.)
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Apr 16, 2018 05:28
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Elyv posted:I think the Mardu deck in Modern might be the first time in Magic history that a RWB deck was good Alot of the Mardu deck has already been around. Who was playing Mardu tokens a couple years ago here? That is basically the deck+Bedlam Reveler.
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Apr 16, 2018 05:49
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precision posted:I guess when I say Esper I really mean "Azorius Control that splashes Black" and it's true that isn't generic goodstuff I've always thought of Esper in Modern as "BW goodstuff splashing blue for Snapcaster Mage". I've been toying with one form or another of an Esper Planeswalkers list for Modern for a while now but have yet to work up the courage to sleeve it up in paper. Maybe Jace pushes that type of deck to an FNM-playable level but he hasn't been lighting Modern on fire or anything yet.
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Apr 16, 2018 05:51
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The truth about blue as a colour in Modern is that it’s kinda bad E: to clarify, Snapcaster is a very good card when casting non-blue cards and Jace is a good card in theory, but the rest of blue’s business consists of unreliable cantrips and turn too slow counterspells TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Apr 16, 2018 |
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Apr 16, 2018 06:02
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That's because all the good blue cards are banned 
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Apr 16, 2018 06:07
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TheKingofSprings posted:The truth about blue as a colour in Modern is that it’s kinda bad Dig Through Time Gitaxian Probe Mental Misstep Ponder Preordain Treasure Cruise
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Apr 16, 2018 06:07
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Toshimo posted:Dig Through Time The Shortest Path posted:That's because all the good blue cards are banned I don’t say Goblins is a good legacy deck because Recruiter exists, don’t be obtuse E: and as long as we’re playing with those silly rules Green has 8 different cards banned and the top end of those are just as strong While I’m at it, in other colours: R: 5 W/B: 2 TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Apr 16, 2018 |
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Apr 16, 2018 06:08
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Well yeah that's what I mean, blue is bad in modern because they kept banning cards until it got to that point. I really want Wizards to ban Grapeshot or something so they can unban Ponder and Preordain, but I know it will never happen. 
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Apr 16, 2018 06:09
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