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Durandal1707 posted:I'm guessing the Chargers probably take Lamar Jackson if he slides to 17. Rivers is still very good but he's older and there's a lot to the idea that they want to let Lynn draft "his guy". And they're apparently very high on Jackson from the workouts they've had with him. Rivers also doesn't get hurt so Jackson can sit for a while and work on his mechanics. Would figure they would build around him to try and finally win the West than work on his replacement in '19.
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Apr 15, 2018 00:51
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how is eli career over but philippe is prime time for championship roster being built around him?
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Apr 15, 2018 02:40
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Asproigerosis posted:how is eli career over but philippe is prime time for championship roster being built around him? Because Phillip Rivers isn't playing like unfettered rear end and is still REALLY goddamned good.
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Apr 15, 2018 02:44
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windshipper posted:Because Phillip Rivers isn't playing like unfettered rear end and is still REALLY goddamned good. Eli has also started for nearly two more years. Rivers sat behind Brees for two full seasons
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Apr 15, 2018 04:24
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Asproigerosis posted:how is eli career over but philippe is prime time for championship roster being built around him? The Chargers are picking right in the middle and they have a very slim window while the Raiders try to sort out a mess and the Chiefs break in Mahomes.
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Apr 15, 2018 04:34
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Grittybeard posted:I kinda like Mason as a prospect but this talk of him going in the mid first recently I find completely crazy.
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Apr 15, 2018 05:25
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I don't think Eli's had that much of a drop off. Still probably smart to draft a QB of the future either way for both teams.
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Apr 15, 2018 06:22
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Doltos posted:I don't think Eli's had that much of a drop off. Still probably smart to draft a QB of the future either way for both teams. Man his arm looked weak last season, he couldn't even go deep. He had accuracy problems too, while Rivers is playing almost as well as he ever has. Still, I think it would be pretty cool to get Lamar Jackson on the Chargers. That would be a really good situation for him.
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Apr 15, 2018 12:33
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Play posted:Man his arm looked weak last season, he couldn't even go deep. He had accuracy problems too, while Rivers is playing almost as well as he ever has. what about his line or receiving corps could have induced him to go deep
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Apr 15, 2018 14:42
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I don't think it's a matter of Eli being unable to throw it deep because he physically can't do it anymore, but rather because the Giants' o-line was heinously awful at blocking last year and they had almost nobody for him pass to after Beckham, Marshall and Shepard all went down to injury. Basically when he wasn't getting pounded into paste he looked like the same player he's always been. LiquidFriend posted:I would be surprised to see the Chargers prioritize a QB if Rivers intends to play in the new LA stadium. The general idea/rumour i've seen floated around is that Lynn was basically promised that he'd get a chance to draft "his guy" at some point early in his contract. He has a preference for mobile QBs - Lynn said something to the effect that you have a dead offense if you don't have one right before they played the Patriots last season - and mobility isn't Rivers' strong suit. Never has been. But given the QB class this year, this is probably going to be their best chance to draft a successor to Rivers. They've worked out Jackson quite a bit over the course of this process and they're apparently very high on him. And they have an idea that he'll probably slide down into the mid teens. Philip is, despite his age, still a drat good QB who almost never gets hurt, so the idea is that they draft Jackson, sit him for a year or two and let the coaching staff work out his mechanics so there isn't much rush to get him on the field immediately. Personally, i'm with Ross in that I would want Vea instead - DT and run defense in general was their biggest weakness last year and he would help them out immediately on the interior of that defense. But at the same time, QB classes like this don't come around that often. So I don't begrudge the Chargers if they think they can get a successor to Rivers in this draft, without having to trade away a bunch of draft capital to do it. As for the other part of your post, I do want to make the point that they were a much better team overall last year than they were the previous 2, 3 seasons even though they got no contributions from their first two picks due to injuries. They still almost made the playoffs despite missing both of those players. So even if they were able to take Jackson, I don't think it precludes them from being able to continue improving the roster.
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Apr 15, 2018 15:04
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Gumbel2Gumbel posted:Yeah the team purging their roster for alpha dogs is going to draft a liberal Jew in the first round Brent Grimes wife did go on a drunken(I assume) rant about how the Dolphins owner only hires his "jew buddies" after Adam Gase got hired and then cut him.
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Apr 15, 2018 16:33
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Rumor is Gase has a mega boner for him but smoke etc
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Apr 15, 2018 17:33
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Play posted:Man his arm looked weak last season, he couldn't even go deep. He had accuracy problems too, while Rivers is playing almost as well as he ever has. I feel like arm strength is one of the last things to go on a QB since it's just an interaction of your shoulder complex with driving from your legs. Most QB's don't suddenly lose that unless they're suffering from muscular degeneration or had several shoulder injuries. Peyton Manning is a good example of that and so is Christian Ponder who had a quality NFL arm before his shoulder injuries in FSU. Eli hasn't suffered those injuries. His arm strength and his accuracy are still there. I'm not one to toss out stats since QB stats are usually completely misleading, but the guy still threw above 60% and had a 19/13 TD:INT ratio. Seems about par for the course with him, especially considering he's an INT machine most of the time. Eli could probably still go for another four years. Same with Rivers. You just have to question if you want the same type of play out of those guys or you want to move on to something new. It has nothing to do with their stats and everything to do with what they are when they're on the field.
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Apr 15, 2018 18:15
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It's also worth noting that perhaps nobody is asked to do more with less on offense than Eli Manning. If you gave him a single year with say, TWO top receivers, an actual producer at runningback, and a tight end, he'd probably post career numbers despite his age.
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Apr 15, 2018 18:24
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Or even just an offensive line that block for longer than a second before he gets absolutely pounded. Like Rivers, he's been throwing behind mostly wretched offensive lines for the last 5 years. Big part of why they can't run the ball for poo poo either.Doltos posted:I feel like arm strength is one of the last things to go on a QB since it's just an interaction of your shoulder complex with driving from your legs. Most QB's don't suddenly lose that unless they're suffering from muscular degeneration or had several shoulder injuries. Peyton Manning is a good example of that and so is Christian Ponder who had a quality NFL arm before his shoulder injuries in FSU. Eli hasn't suffered those injuries. His arm strength and his accuracy are still there. I'm not one to toss out stats since QB stats are usually completely misleading, but the guy still threw above 60% and had a 19/13 TD:INT ratio. Seems about par for the course with him, especially considering he's an INT machine most of the time. I forget exactly who said it, but during Peyton's last year, the point was made that usually when a QB's throwing velocity starts declining, it's usually because they started racking up nagging injuries to their legs more so than upper body injury. Your quads, hamstring, ankles etc get jacked up etc and so you can't efficiently execute your throwing motion like the QB used to be able to, and so they start compensating for it in various ways that doesn't really work out. Favre and Peyton were pretty much done in both of their final seasons because they had a bum ankle and quad respectively, plus the neck thing with Manning. Durandal1707 fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Apr 15, 2018 |
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Apr 15, 2018 18:52
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Raku posted:It's also worth noting that perhaps nobody is asked to do more with less on offense than Eli Manning. If you gave him a single year with say, TWO top receivers, an actual producer at runningback, and a tight end, he'd probably post career numbers despite his age. He had one of the two best receivers in the league. Shepherd and Engram were decent pieces as well. Horrible line and run game, but we’re not exactly talking about a bottom 5 situation here.
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Apr 15, 2018 19:37
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fsif posted:He had one of the two best receivers in the league. Shepherd and Engram were decent pieces as well. Horrible line and run game, but we’re not exactly talking about a bottom 5 situation here. Last year?
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Apr 15, 2018 19:42
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Eli isn't declining. The bigger issue is these QBs suck except for Darnold. Unless he's there, they're trading down, and it's the right move.
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Apr 15, 2018 23:06
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fsif posted:He had one of the two best receivers in the league. Shepherd and Engram were decent pieces as well. Horrible line and run game, but we’re not exactly talking about a bottom 5 situation here. Eli has never had a top 5 receiver to throw to.
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Apr 15, 2018 23:23
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Durandal1707 posted:I don't think it's a matter of Eli being unable to throw it deep because he physically can't do it anymore, but rather because the Giants' o-line was heinously awful at blocking last year and they had almost nobody for him pass to after Beckham, Marshall and Shepard all went down to injury. Basically when he wasn't getting pounded into paste he looked like the same player he's always been. On the flipside, I don't think they are moving on from Rivers until Rivers is ready to retire and he's still got 3 more seasons in him. If they took Lamar Jackson this month, they could be facing a decision to pay him without much substantial playing time and would lose the advantage of having a starting QB for cheap. I guess the same could be said for Eli if they felt he's sticking around for years. I don't think he will, though.
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Apr 15, 2018 23:27
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Durandal1707 posted:I don't think it's a matter of Eli being unable to throw it deep because he physically can't do it anymore, but rather because the Giants' o-line was heinously awful at blocking last year and they had almost nobody for him pass to after Beckham, Marshall and Shepard all went down to injury. Basically when he wasn't getting pounded into paste he looked like the same player he's always been Kim Jong Il posted:Eli isn't declining. The bigger issue is these QBs suck except for Darnold. Unless he's there, they're trading down, and it's the right move. In 2011 Eli didn't have an elite pass protecting line or an effective run game, yet the team had success because he was actually playing well. I'm not saying the situation is the same but I respectfully disagree that Eli was the same last season as he has always been. When he tried to go deep the ball was very often underthrown. When going intermediate the lack of zip on the ball was kind of scary. Accuracy wasn't there, and even back in 2016 when he had open receivers all over the place he could only hit them in stride half the time. He panicked under pressure badly this season when he used to be actually really effective under pressure. The Giants had a good record in 2016 but that masked how badly Manning played, he was 27th in the league in QBR. Basically, all of his numbers indicate a steady decline over the last several years. This season was rough for other reasons for sure as you all have mentioned: horrible o-line play, no run game, and I would add ineffective, predictable play calling. But before 2017 the Giants were already riding their elite defense. Offense hasn't been cutting it for a long time, and you can't remove Eli from that. I wouldn't trade down unless there's some other viable plan to get a new QB by the 2019 season. I think Josh Rosen is a huge upgrade over Eli as he's playing now, not that I think he should start immediately. Even if everything on the offense is in decline but Eli, you have to wonder how many second overall picks the Giants are going to have in the next few years. This is probably their best chance if they do want to go via draft and not FA.
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Apr 16, 2018 01:15
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MrLogan posted:Eli has never had a top 5 receiver to throw to. Nicks and Burress were both very very good for brief periods of time.
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Apr 16, 2018 04:16
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Gumbel2Gumbel posted:Lol imagine if Wilson had an offensive line When he had his one year with Wisconsin that offense was unstoppable. He had time to throw, and could scramble forward if he wanted instead of only to avoid sacks, often housing it from half the field away. Unfortunately, the defense just lost JJ Watt the year before and was hot trash, so every game turned into a shootout. Look at these scores: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Wisconsin_Badgers_football_team The two regular season losses were on Hail Mary's by the other team, and the Rose Bowl was a record-breaker score-wise, with time running out when we had the ball near the end zone with 2 seconds left. What could have been.
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Apr 16, 2018 04:35
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Catfish Noodlin posted:Brent Grimes wife did go on a drunken(I assume) rant about how the Dolphins owner only hires his "jew buddies" after Adam Gase got hired and then cut him. Miko actually was right about Tannehill especially her bird ejaculation tweet and now look where we are: Miami is looking for a new QB.
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Apr 16, 2018 06:31
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Questions about rookie contracts. Is it a fixed term deal, like the 5 years I always hear about? Or can it be front loaded?
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Apr 16, 2018 07:23
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Sad King Billy posted:Questions about rookie contracts. It's a 4-year contract for all rookies, and salaries are set based on their draft position. First-round picks have a team option for a fifth year. With the new CBA rookie scale, there's basically no negotiating like there was in the old days (unless teams decide to get a bug up their rear end about offset language, which is a whole other can of worms).
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Apr 16, 2018 07:33
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Benne posted:It's a 4-year contract for all rookies, and salaries are set based on their draft position. First-round picks have a team option for a fifth year. I'm wondering if anything can be done about performance. How easy would it be to cut a 4th rounder if they didn't perform? Would they have to pay off all the remaining contract?
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Apr 16, 2018 07:54
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Sad King Billy posted:I'm wondering if anything can be done about performance. How easy would it be to cut a 4th rounder if they didn't perform? From this article which seems to match what I've heard, most (all?) first round picks have guaranteed contracts for four years. I believe second round picks might have some guarantees too, although not for the length of the contract. For your hypothetical fourth rounder you just tell him to get lost and you only have to pay him what you owed him up to that point. e: Well, 'guaranteed.' Teams might be writing in outs for themselves if the player gets in any trouble (on field or off). From that article: quote:A more sinister trend is developing: teams are negotiating language that voids—erases—future guarantees not only for suspensions, but also for a fine! Think about this scenario: a player is late to a meeting (perhaps because his car broke down or he had an accident) and is fined for being late, triggering the void of millions, or even tens of millions of future guarantees! Grittybeard fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Apr 16, 2018 |
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Apr 16, 2018 08:28
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Sad King Billy posted:I'm wondering if anything can be done about performance. How easy would it be to cut a 4th rounder if they didn't perform? Only guaranteed a signing bonus so it would cost roughly 500k to cut a fourth rounder. Cap hit would increase for cutting them as normally the 500k is spread over the four year contract.
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Apr 16, 2018 12:49
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FizFashizzle posted:Nicks and Burress were both very very good for brief periods of time. Agreed, but I don't think he's ever had a Julio or a Green to throw to.
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Apr 16, 2018 14:38
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MrLogan posted:Agreed, but I don't think he's ever had a Julio or a Green to throw to. Okay, almost no QBs ever have one of the two best wr in the league. To say nothing of guys like victor cruz or The Other Steve Smith, or any of the billion receiving running backs they always seemed to have up there.
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Apr 16, 2018 15:13
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"OBJ isn't a top 5 receiver" is certainly a take.
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Apr 16, 2018 15:20
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Eli isn't in decline He declined years and years ago he's just been crap for a long while now. 
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Apr 16, 2018 15:22
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When your draft needs are tackle and edge rushers https://twitter.com/PFF_Mike/status/985903770344284160
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Apr 16, 2018 16:55
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Kalli posted:When your draft needs are tackle and edge rushers That seems about right. This CB draft is insanely deep though and should be number 2.
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Apr 16, 2018 17:02
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Kalli posted:When your draft needs are tackle and edge rushers All but like 4 teams don't have tackle and edge rushers in their top 3 needs.
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Apr 16, 2018 17:11
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Doltos posted:That seems about right. This CB draft is insanely deep though and should be number 2. I heard Hub Arkesh on the radio saying that it isn't as strong as it has been the past couple years. How would you rank this class comparedto the past couple years?
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Apr 16, 2018 17:28
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swickles posted:All but like 4 teams don't have tackle and edge rushers in their top 3 needs. Boo ya!!
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Apr 16, 2018 17:43
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Sataere posted:I heard Hub Arkesh on the radio saying that it isn't as strong as it has been the past couple years. How would you rank this class comparedto the past couple years? I'd say last year's class was deeper in top end talent while this year is just deeper. There will be NFL starters in the third round.
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Apr 16, 2018 17:59
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Amy Pole Her posted:Boo ya!! warcrimes posted:I'd say last year's class was deeper in top end talent while this year is just deeper. There will be NFL starters in the third round.
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Apr 16, 2018 18:35
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