|
Force of Will is a reasonable Standard reprint.
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 21:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 22:20 |
|
|
TheKingofSprings posted:You’re right and it’s really sad for the game It would have less of an impact than you think....
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 21:36
|
|
|
Force of Will would not be bad for standard at all, if it even saw play, so I could see Wizards eventually doing it except for the fact that weird mtgfinanciers somehow control most of their important decisions, so
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 21:36
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:If you want to nerf those decks, ban Stirrings. Nothing good for the format is playing that card. My man. Nerfs Tron too!
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 21:36
|
|
|
Hellsau posted:Force of Will is a reasonable Standard reprint. Let The Scarab God rotate and I'll agree.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 21:37
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:If you want to nerf those decks, ban Stirrings. Nothing good for the format is playing that card. Agreed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 21:39
|
|
|
suicidesteve posted:Let The Scarab God rotate and I'll agree. Why would you ever play FoW with or against Scarab God though, it's really bad in slow games?
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 21:40
|
|
|
The Shortest Path posted:Why would you ever play FoW with or against Scarab God though, it's really bad in slow games? There's also a ton of cards that make up for the card disadvantage, and I think how bad Force is in the fair mirror is ridiculously overstated. Sometimes people have things you really need to not have them resolve, and Force lets you do that while still advancing your own game plan. Observe this simple, and easy to set up, sequence. Step 1 Cast Scarab God. Step 2 Spend 0 mana to counter your 4 mana removal for it. Or counter your big, game-ending threat that you would normally resolve after you tapped out. Step 3 The game's over. You won. Go to game 2. I agree that there are standard formats where Force would be good at best, but I don't think this is one. There's a decent amount of good control elements already and I think between TSG, Gearhulk, Chupachups, 2 instant speed draw 2s, an instant speed draw X, and Approach to name a few, Force would push it over the line.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 21:48
|
|
|
Maybe they'd do a functional reprint where exile force of will afterward
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 21:50
|
|
|
Eh, Modern is kind of a dumb format that people like in spite of being kind of a dumb format. It's a format where sometimes you sit down and your opponent is playing some troll poo poo you can never actually beat because your deck has no real way to interact with whatever it's doing. Those decks aren't ruining the format because they're often fragile in the wider meta because some other portion of decks either goldfish faster or are constructed such that they might have some play. That doesn't really do anything for the fact that if you sat down to play that game you didn't get to do anything and got a loss. The end result is that it's not a very good competitive format, which is why the pros don't like it. It's a lot less skill testing and a lot more, "did I draw a silver bullet hate card."
Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Apr 16, 2018 |
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 21:51
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:It would have less of an impact than you think.... I don’t think it would have much of an impact on standard at all. And I don’t know that Wizards and people who haven’t played with Force of Will know that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 21:53
|
|
|
When Force of Will counters a 5 mana spell for free it's a great card. When it counters a 2 mana spell for free it's pretty bad. Basically suicidesteve is right
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 21:56
|
|
|
Angry Grimace posted:Eh, Modern is kind of a dumb format that people like in spite of being kind of a dumb format. It's a format where sometimes you sit down and your opponent is playing some troll poo poo you can never actually beat because your deck has no real way to interact with whatever it's doing. Those decks aren't ruining the format because they're often fragile in the wider meta because some other portion of decks either goldfish faster or are constructed such that they might have some play. That doesn't really do anything for the fact that if you sat down to play that game you didn't get to do anything and got a loss. The end result is that it's not a very good competitive format, which is why the pros don't like it. It's a lot less skill testing and a lot more, "did I draw a silver bullet hate card." Do pros actually not like it? The only one I see actively get mad at is is EFro and he sucks.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 21:58
|
|
|
Elyv posted:When Force of Will counters a 5 mana spell for free it's a great card. When it counters a 2 mana spell for free it's pretty bad. Right. This is why I think it would actually be better on standard than anywhere else. Like you play it in vintage and legacy because 1 and 2 mana spells in those formats can end the game, and you can die on turn 1 without it. In standard most 1 and 2 mana spells don't have a huge impact. So you're countering 4 or 5 mana spells, or you're protecting your 4 or 5 mana spell. Sometimes you get to do both at once and that's absolutely crushing if you have any follow-up. fadam posted:Do pros actually not like it? The only one I see actively get mad at is is EFro and he sucks. Pros (including Efro) say something along the lines of "I like the format but I don't think it should be played at a professional level." Which pretty much translates to me to "I don't like it but I have to write about it and play it because it's what other people like." But that's probably me projecting.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 22:10
|
|
|
unban mental misstep
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 22:11
|
|
|
Yeah, people think of FoW as an anti-combo card, but back in the day I saw it used more for protecting a backbreaking Moat or Abyss against fair creature decks.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 22:15
|
|
|
whydirt posted:Yeah, people think of FoW as an anti-combo card, but back in the day I saw it used more for protecting a backbreaking Moat or Abyss against fair creature decks. At least in Modern, you might actually be dead before you could cast either of those nowadays and they just don't print cards like that anymore in standard.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 22:39
|
|
|
What I unironically think they should do is another pitch cycle just like the originals, but buff up the weaker ones and have them all positioned to be answer cards or similar cards that can't win on their own.
TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Apr 16, 2018 |
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 22:40
|
|
|
TheKingofSprings posted:What I unironically think they should do is another pitch cycle just like the originals, but buff up the weaker ones and have them all positioned to be answer cards or similar cards that can't win on their own. Reverent Mantra was really good, though?
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 22:45
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:If you want to nerf those decks, ban Stirrings. Nothing good for the format is playing that card. Agreed. Board the weatherlight or commune with dinos seem appropriate power level for cantrips these days.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 22:46
|
|
|
What was the last non-land/non-common standard reprint that made any waves? Opt? They aren't going to ever put FOW in standard because it would take up a mythic slot and those have to be 100% new these days because "story".
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 22:48
|
|
|
Sickening posted:What was the last non-land/non-common standard reprint that made any waves? Opt? Core sets are coming back so this isn't necessarily true. The core sets printed after mythics were introduced had plenty of mythic reprints.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 22:50
|
|
|
Maybe it could happen in a core set? Or do those have stories, too?
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 22:52
|
|
|
solution: start adding type 1 reprints into modern masters and allow those as modern legal
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 22:54
|
|
|
TheKingofSprings posted:What I unironically think they should do is another pitch cycle just like the originals, but buff up the weaker ones and have them all positioned to be answer cards or similar cards that can't win on their own. That'd be cool, but the only actual weak card from the original Alliances cycle was Scars of the Veteran Bounty of the Hunt, Contagion, and Pyrokinesis are all good cards that have seen tournament play (though admittedly Contagion/Pyrokinesis were usually SB options) e: Sickening posted:What was the last non-land/non-common standard reprint that made any waves? Opt? why would it need to be a mythic slot? if you're reprinting it you've got to anticipate it might be a standard and modern staple, and its current price isn't so high that people will be up in arms when it drops to $40 or whatever LGD fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Apr 16, 2018 |
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 22:55
|
|
|
Fuzzy Mammal posted:Agreed. Board the weatherlight or commune with dinos seem appropriate power level for cantrips these days. Board the Weatherlight seems horrible.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 23:12
|
|
|
LGD posted:why would it need to be a mythic slot? if you're reprinting it you've got to anticipate it might be a standard and modern staple, and its current price isn't so high that people will be up in arms when it drops to $40 or whatever oh you sweet summer child
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 23:14
|
|
|
little munchkin posted:oh you sweet summer child I'm sorry if I gave you the impression I underestimate Wizard's ongoing fuckheadedness, I'm just saying that there isn't actually anything preventing them from doing a FoW reprint in a non-stupid manner if they chose I mean poo poo, it's a pretty generic card name, I'm sure they could just work in some insanely stupid plot point about Jace resisting Bolas' mind control if it needed to be a "story-related" mythic
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 23:20
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:Board the Weatherlight seems horrible. Sorcery speed search that costs 2 tends to be in standard
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 23:24
|
|
|
There are no reasons for flavor or story that are preventing Wizards from reprinting Force of Will in a Standard-legal set. It's just simply that they probably don't want to and probably never will.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 23:24
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:Board the Weatherlight seems horrible. Its card draw in white that hits most of the major cards in standard. Writing it off entirely is a mistake.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 23:25
|
|
|
AnEdgelord posted:Its card draw in white that hits most of the major cards in standard. Writing it off entirely is a mistake. I think it being 2 cmc and a sorcery is more of the issue for the effect.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 23:27
|
|
|
TheKingofSprings posted:Sorcery speed search that costs 2 tends to be in standard In the decks that play Stirrings hits literally the whole deck and it costs 1 mana. This card won't even hit 50% of standard decks and it costs 2...
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 23:30
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:In the decks that play Stirrings hits literally the whole deck and it costs 1 mana. This card won't even hit 50% of standard decks and it costs 2... But what if you need to Stirrings for Stirrings?
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 23:35
|
|
|
Sickening posted:I think it being 2 cmc and a sorcery is more of the issue for the effect. Sure but similar things were said about a 4 cmc removal spell being too expensive. This is why writing off cards before we actually get a chance to play with them is a bad idea. Especially when they have useful effects tied to them. If it sees play its going to be because it allows poo poo like mardu vehicles to pull Heart of Kirans, Chandras and Hazorets off the top of their deck without having to go into blue for the effect. If it doesn't see play its because its too expensive for the effect and can't be done at instant speed. We are not going to know which one is going to happen until we actually play with the card.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 23:37
|
|
|
LGD posted:I'm sorry if I gave you the impression I underestimate Wizard's ongoing fuckheadedness, I'm just saying that there isn't actually anything preventing them from doing a FoW reprint in a non-stupid manner if they chose *mark rosewater voice* our hands are tied, actually
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 23:51
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:Board the Weatherlight seems horrible. Yeah, hence appropriate 
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 23:52
|
|
|
Sickening posted:What was the last non-land/non-common standard reprint that made any waves? Opt? Goblin Warchief could mean something in 8-Whack.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 23:54
|
|
|
little munchkin posted:*mark rosewater voice* our hands are tied, actually
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 23:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 22:20 |
|
|
GoutPatrol posted:Goblin Warchief could mean something in 8-Whack. Unlikely, if any Goblin will see play out of this set it’s the one that gives a free win vs. Elves Affinity and Mardu
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 23:57
|
|