|
WTF BEES posted:However there's debate on whether the black xenos in Covenant are the genuine article, or more of a "protomorph" since it lacks a lot of the biomechanical features of the standard xenomorph, as well as being born fully formed. And even if the xenomorph that David creates is the same "species" as the ones on LV-426, that doesn't mean they're connected to David in any way. David may have, by tinkering around with the recipe, unlocked something in the black goo that was already there by design(or naturally depending on what the origin of the black goo actually is). The bottom line is that we aren't told enough about what the black goo is and what it does to come to any conclusions about the eggs on LV-426. The classic xenomorph could just be Black Goo Recipe #17 and the ship on LV-426 was just one of a thousand Engineer ships carrying it. Or maybe David himself planted the eggs there, we just don't know.
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 14:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 20:27 |
|
|
I personally enjoy the idea that All Evolution Leads to Xenomorphs and the black goo just kicks the process forward.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 16:58
|
|
|
Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:All Evolution Leads to Xenomorphs Yeah, which is already the case in Alien.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 17:48
|
|
|
Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:I personally enjoy the idea that All Evolution Leads to Xenomorphs and the black goo just kicks the process forward. Under the logic of Prometheus and Covenant, xenomorphs just fit the aesthetic sense of a particular android with daddy issues. This is one of many reasons why those movies are a complete waste.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 18:25
|
|
|
CelticPredator posted:There’s been zero talk at making the Reconned Alien 3 thing so Im not sure why people keep saying that’s where Fox wants to go. Neill Blomkamp confirmed fairly recently that his Alien movie project is officially dead.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 18:34
|
|
|
a foolish pianist posted:Under the logic of Prometheus and Covenant, xenomorphs just fit the aesthetic sense of a particular android with daddy issues. This theory would only make sense if the aliens David isn't responsible for didn't also look pretty drat similar to the original monster.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 18:50
|
|
|
a foolish pianist posted:Under the logic of Prometheus and Covenant, xenomorphs just fit the aesthetic sense of a particular android with daddy issues. That's really not the case at all, but ok if you want to hate the movies because of it nobody's gonna stop you.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 18:56
|
|
a foolish pianist posted:Under the logic of Prometheus and Covenant, xenomorphs just fit the aesthetic sense of a particular android with daddy issues. Actually, David is textually attempting to ape the face of god with varying levels of success, and in his hubris, claiming the natural path of form as his own design.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 18:57
|
|
|
Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Actually, David is textually attempting to ape the face of god with varying levels of success, and in his hubris, claiming the natural path of form as his own design. Just wanted to say that this is a really slick and concise way to articulate what I’ve been saying since the movie came out.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 20:46
|
|
|
I think there's a good lasting lesson in the two newest films that it's a loving terrible idea to not wear full PPE such as a helmet and sealed suit when exploring in space.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 23:09
|
|
|
Amarcarts posted:I think there's a good lasting lesson in the two newest films that it's a loving terrible idea to not wear full PPE such as a helmet and sealed suit when exploring in space. Yea, if only they'd kept their helmets on nothing bad would've happened, guys with helmets are always 100% safe in Alien movies.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 23:18
|
|
|
To be fair the Black Goo melted Fifeld’s helmet to his face, and the facehugger in ‘Alien’ burned right through Kane’s helmet pretty much instantly. Space is scary.  E; f,b
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 23:19
|
|
|
saying "wear PPE! check the air outside before you go out!" is just a nerdier way of yelling "don't go in the basement!" in a slasher film
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2018 23:27
|
|
|
alf_pogs posted:saying "wear PPE! check the air outside before you go out!" is just a nerdier way of yelling "don't go in the basement!" in a slasher film To be fair, I can get the complaint. Even if the space suits and precautions don’t matter in the end, having the characters bother to take them helps make the characters not seem foolish, and heightens the danger when they realize their precautions were ineffective.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2018 00:21
|
|
|
In Convenant, I had no problem making the assumption that their scanning equipment is just supposedly that good. I mean, the only safe way to do it is to send one dude down without no helmet and let him stay there for a year and see if anything happens. It becomes a flat either/or thing there. And that's not a good movie. I love The Thing and Body Snatchers remake 1 for nobody doing anything stupid as I find that completely frightening, but there's a level I can absorb, with Prometheus probably being the max limit. Also, going back for a cat is not dumb; I'd go back for both of my dogs and I'm suuuuuper tactical.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2018 00:34
|
|
|
Xenomrph posted:To be fair, I can get the complaint. Even if the space suits and precautions don’t matter in the end, having the characters bother to take them helps make the characters not seem foolish, and heightens the danger when they realize their precautions were ineffective. Except, again, plenty of people in space suits get wrecked in Prometheus and the complaints were just directed elsewhere. The fundamental complaint is that in Ridley Scott's movies the humans' technology is a fart in the wind compared to the primal forces of the universe. It's not really the lack of precautions. It's that no one gets in a power loader at the end.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2018 00:41
|
|
|
Sir Kodiak posted:Except, again, plenty of people in space suits get wrecked in Prometheus and the complaints were just directed elsewhere. The fundamental complaint is that in Ridley Scott's movies the humans' technology is a fart in the wind compared to the primal forces of the universe. It's not really the lack of precautions. It's that no one gets in a power loader at the end. People can complain about more than one thing, it’s not that the complaints were redirected, those other complaints were there all along. Most people who voiced criticisms weren’t going into these movies just ITCHING to find stuff to complain about. The movie just presented a bunch of really easy targets, especially when viewed through the lens of ‘Alien’, a movie made by the same director. Like yeah Ridley Scott can be saying that technology is meaningless, but that’s done more effectively when that technology is actually shown being overcome by crazy poo poo (like with Fifeld or Kane). Having the characters eschew their technology (like, taking helmets off) undermines the idea that technology is meaningless. For what it’s worth, I didn’t have a problem with Covenant and the characters not wearing space suits, because their super-future sensors told them the planet was safe. In my book, that’s an ample precaution (Iike Kane wearing a suit) and then the movie proves their technology wrong. That said, a more in-your-face approach may have been having the characters wear space suits and then the black spores get through the suit anyway. I think having that guy birth a neomorph via his throat would have been crazy and claustrophobic as gently caress if it was happening while he’s sealed inside a space suit.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2018 00:54
|
|
|
David somehow figuring out how to nuke all the big space dudes and them getting wiped out was really really dumb. I hate the new movies.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2018 01:17
|
|
|
Xenomrph posted:People can complain about more than one thing i think this is the internet's slogan
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2018 01:19
|
|
|
willie_dee posted:David somehow figuring out how to nuke all the big space dudes and them getting wiped out was really really dumb. I hate the new movies. It was established that space dudes suck already by that point and do a good job of getting themselves killed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2018 01:53
|
|
|
Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Actually, David is textually attempting to ape the face of god with varying levels of success, and in his hubris, claiming the natural path of form as his own design. According to a lot of the Internet, Ridley Scott is David here and the Universe has already created the perfect Alien movie
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2018 03:31
|
|
brocked posted:According to a lot of the Internet, Ridley Scott is David here and the Universe has already created the perfect Alien movie The internet also was convinced for awhile that there was a pedophile delivery service operating out of a DC pizza restaraunt. The internet is dumb.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2018 13:52
|
|
|
CelticPredator posted:There’s been zero talk at making the Reconned Alien 3 thing so Im not sure why people keep saying that’s where Fox wants to go. i mean, from moment one it was something Blomkamp was trying to throw what little weight he had around to get made, not a studio project. people reacted to it badly because of how "fan-ish" it sounded, but it's pretty important to remember that it was almost literally a fan project that just got attention from Fox because Blomkamp is a name and it went viral, it's not something Fox proposed as a money-grab. i'd say we're most likely to see more AVP if they go full cash-grab. the movies bombed critically, but the first one made a good bit of money, and while Requiem didn't do great it wasn't a massive failure iirc and probably had pretty long legs on video.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2018 17:16
|
|
|
I've never really understood how Prometheus and Covenant would be better movies if the characters acted "smarter," whatever that means All the Alien movies go out of their way to emphasize just how much long-term space isolation and the threat of alien biology fucks with the human psyche. The smartest, most prepared humans still do dumb and short-sighted things when they're scared.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2018 17:34
|
|
|
Xenomrph posted:People can complain about more than one thing, it’s not that the complaints were redirected, those other complaints were there all along. Most people who voiced criticisms weren’t going into these movies just ITCHING to find stuff to complain about. The movie just presented a bunch of really easy targets, especially when viewed through the lens of ‘Alien’, a movie made by the same director. Right, people went after "easy targets" once they didn't like the movie. And there will always be low-hanging fruit if people don't like a movie. The mistake is assuming that people's complaints have any particular correlation to why they didn't like the movie. Nobody wore environmental suits in Aliens. No complaints. People who wear helmets and don't wear helmets in Prometheus get equally wrecked. Lots of complaint about helmets. The problem isn't actually the helmets.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2018 17:37
|
|
|
No, but the problem is when they take off the helmets. People (generally) didn’t have a problem with the lack of suits in Covenant because, like I said, they scanned the planet and it came back clean. Like with Kane and Fifeld, they rely on their technology, and it fails them. In Aliens, the technological excuse is that they’d terraformed the planet and people had lived there for decades. Not to mention it wasn’t the environment (or isolation from it) that failed the characters, it was their reliance on “superior firepower”. I don’t disagree that when people dislike a movie that they find poo poo to bitch about - it happened endlessly when the AvP movies came out. But I liked Prometheus, and even I’m willing to acknowledge that popping the seal on their helmets was pretty fuckin’ dumb. That said, you could argue that popping the helmets could be seen as an act of faith (a major component of Shaw’s character) and it’s a commentary about how reliance on faith can fail you, the problem is that it’s not Shaw who pops her helmet, it’s her atheist husband. Xenomrph fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Apr 17, 2018 |
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2018 18:09
|
|
|
Every helmetless character in the franchise is a sad missed opportunity to bring back the sick space marine helmet masks from the end of Alien 3.LORD OF BOOTY posted:i mean, from moment one it was something Blomkamp was trying to throw what little weight he had around to get made, not a studio project. people reacted to it badly because of how "fan-ish" it sounded, but it's pretty important to remember that it was almost literally a fan project that just got attention from Fox because Blomkamp is a name and it went viral, it's not something Fox proposed as a money-grab. I agree with this, enough time has passed that it would make easy money just from "This time we're doing it RIGHT" style marketing and interviews with folks and stuff.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2018 18:12
|
|
|
They're not going to plan out another AvP while they're busy dumping money into redeeming the Predator with The Predator.Xenomrph posted:No, but the problem is when they take off the helmets. They scanned the environment in Prometheus and it came back clean. That's what they're talking about when Halloway takes off his helmet. And yet there's complaints about helmets.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2018 18:19
|
|
|
People are very good at finding an "excuse" for obvious contrivances in movies that they like. But then Prometheus comes along and people can't comprehend why this guy who's a being played as a smug, over-confident rear end in a top hat takes his helmet off. Why isn't he acting like a robot with no particular motivation? It doesn't even matter that, straightforwardly, nothing worse happens to characters who take their helmets off than those that don't. The character is absolutely right - the atmosphere was fine. David has to poison him to get the ball rolling, and then the petrified geologist who keeps his helmet on the whole time gets hosed up horribly. And yet because they are obsessed with the superficial content of a character taking off their helmet, they remember there being some correlation between these actions and the horrid poo poo that transpires in the movie, even though there isn't any. So, again, you compare the movie to Aliens where, once again, there is no possible or adequate preparation for the horrific contrivances of the narrative, but fans convince themselves that there is an excuse. Really it's just a matter of paying attention.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2018 18:20
|
|
|
Yea people seem to remember that scene as Holloway just taking his helmet off because he's that much of a smug dumbass. Which he is, but also they're scanning and the scans show that the atmosphere in the ship is fine. Which it is.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2018 18:34
|
|
|
Never actually see David make the eggs, maybe he just found them like the black goo.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2018 18:56
|
|
|
I can believe that a lot of the characters in the latest 2 alien movies are just stupid people. Stupid people getting killed due to their stupidity is a horror/slasher movie staple of course. "Don't go to the basement why the gently caress are you going into the basement oh great yeah you're dead of course you are you loving idiot!!!" It's good fun yelling at stupid characters, but it doesn't really make for a "good" movie. I really prefer movies where characters do pretty much everything right but still end up hosed, that's scary to me. A bunch of people going into a potentially dangerous unknown situation and choosing not to wear any sort of PPE they have on hand and then getting hosed because of that is often just frustrating because you're thinking "why didn't they just wear their loving helmet?" or "Why didn't they follow decontamination procedures?!". But when instead you get some relatively competent people that go in with all the right gear, act as rationally as they could in the circumstances, and make smart choices to try to escape the situation but still end up hosed, that's scary. A movie should never leave you thinking "Is that monster actually a terrifying threat or were its victims just too stupid to live?"
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2018 19:07
|
|
|
It’s scary to you cause you like to imagine you wouldn’t be the stupid guy. But you would, and odds are when you die you will
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2018 19:09
|
|
|
People who panic and do stupid things after poo poo has gone down is understandable. People who go into an unknown situation without any care or proper gear are idiots.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2018 19:12
|
|
|
Basebf555 posted:Yea people seem to remember that scene as Holloway just taking his helmet off because he's that much of a smug dumbass. Which he is, but also they're scanning and the scans show that the atmosphere in the ship is fine. Which it is. But, also, they're conflating two completely different parts of the narrative where the expedition needs to suddenly return to the ship because of unforeseen circumstances. Virtually all criticisms of the 'lazy writing' in Prometheus come down to this, as a fundamental failure to engage with the film as a narrative that is toying with your expectations, and then concluding that the failure to appreciate it is because of something intrinsic to Lindelof's influence. When we actually consider what happens in the film, we realize that the character taking off his helmet is, in fact, dramatized as this really reckless decision. The other characters actively try to dissuade him, with his wife attempting to stop him physically, but he's merely too decisive and quick for anyone to prepare. So this scene achieves two things narratively: 1) It ramps up the tension of the story. We all know that astronauts taking off their space helmets is not a good idea. 2) It functions as a misdirection, an obviously dangerous thing that happens so that the audience is looking for one scenario, while a completely different and even more horrific one plays out. So the reality is that Prometheus is, one, written with an eye to not just be a superficial monster movie where a bunch of nerd surrogates act strategically and rationally while simply being acted upon by bad things, but to build off of character; and, two, actually rather cleverly written, exploiting the anticipation of the spectator and then subverting expectation. Baronjutter posted:A movie should never leave you thinking "Is that monster actually a terrifying threat or were its victims just too stupid to live?" What if the people are the monsters? What if the thing that actually fucks them is, say, an evil corporate czar who sees them all as expendable; or a robot who spontaneously develops the belief that his creators are unworthy of him? What if there's no correlation between what spectators call the stupid decisions of the characters, and what happens to them? What if the difference between a 'stupid' character and a 'competent' one is just an ideological projection?
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2018 19:14
|
|
|
There is no Alien movie where people go into an unknown situation with no care or proper gear. In Alien, it's an unknown situation but the characters are extremely careful and have lots of gear. Aside from that, the situations are believed to be known, not unknown. The colonial marines are overconfident because they think they know everything about the situation and how to handle it. All the technology the colonists have in Covenant tells them that the environment is safe, and they still go in with weapons and tactical gear. The scans of the ship in Prometheus show that it's safe to breathe, and so it is. And yet, the crew still wears space suits and all except one are hesitant to trust the scanners.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2018 19:23
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:What if the difference between a 'stupid' character and a 'competent' one is just an ideological projection? I'll be sure to use this excuse at the next major worksite safety investigation. "Sure this worker was supposed to be wearing his PPE but instead showed up to work that night in sweat pants and flip flops then sawed his foot off by falling onto a table saw while trying to change a light bulb by stacking two step ladders on top of each other. Is it really fair to say this worker was incompetent or negligent? Is competence not just an ideological projection?"
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2018 19:23
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:I'll be sure to use this excuse at the next major worksite safety investigation. "Sure this worker was supposed to be wearing his PPE but instead showed up to work that night in sweat pants and flip flops then sawed his foot off by falling onto a table saw while trying to change a light bulb by stacking two step ladders on top of each other. Is it really fair to say this worker was incompetent or negligent? Is competence not just an ideological projection?" It just never ends...
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2018 19:26
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:I'll be sure to use this excuse at the next major worksite safety investigation. "Sure this worker was supposed to be wearing his PPE but instead showed up to work that night in sweat pants and flip flops then sawed his foot off by falling onto a table saw while trying to change a light bulb by stacking two step ladders on top of each other. Is it really fair to say this worker was incompetent or negligent? Is competence not just an ideological projection?" I work in a business that has a huge safety program, that provides thousands of dollars of PPE, and doesn't do anything without talking about risk mitigation, and I have to make daily corrections for people who seem to go out of their way to ignore all of that. So, in that context, I find nothing unrealistic in how the humans in Prometheus behave.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2018 19:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 20:27 |
|
|
*intro like the one to ALIEN with each letter appearing in fragments but it says OSHA*
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2018 19:29
|
|
