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bango skank posted:Was DC the place where they had dudes who you would give money to on the street and then later down the street a different guy would come by on a bike or something to give you some weed? Yup, that is *exactly* DC. That's still a pretty transparent legal dodge, so people can get nailed for it if the cops bother, but enforcement has been pretty sporadic. People have been more upset about the cops raiding "donation" parties, since those are generally attended by wealthy white people, which is a bad demographic to piss off in DC. You can google "Marijuana pop-ups" to get the scoop on all of those. That aside, DC is still disproportionately cracking down on minorities for public smoking (exacerbated by the fact that poorer minorities are more likely to live in rental units that don't turn a blind eye to weed, and/or public housing where it can get you evicted) as well as trafficking. That said, DC marijuana arrests have dropped from nearly 6,000 in 2011 to under 1,000 currently (though the trend was already declining before decrim and legalization) so overall it's certainly an improvement, though the disparity is troubling. And some of that disparity arguably just comes from the heavy police presence in poor areas, combined with giving less slack to minorities while ignoring similar activity in wealthier areas. Re the pop-ups, here's one pretty blatant example where vendors set up an event in a DC nightclub, sold $400 pairs of tube-socks, and "gifted" weed along with the purchase: https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/22-People-Arrested-17-Lbs-of-Marijuana-Seized-in-Downtown-DC-Drug-Bust-470946223.html Adam Eidinger's DCMJ has been working on all this stuff, but the real stumbling block is at the Congressional level, so when Eidinger gets interviewed for this stuff as the go-to weed guy, about all he can say is "this is what happens when DC isn't allowed to have stores." EDIT: Kush Gods is apparently still operating in DC, and as of this week hiring more personnel per their Twitter. The owner has been busted multiple times for trafficking, so I honestly don't know how they're staying in business but clearly they are. I've run across them myself: they'll park a car covered in weed-vinyl right in the middle of busy nightlife areas. Apparently you give them money, sign a statement saying you expect nothing, and within a minute someone will emerge from the crowd and just hand you weed because they appreciate you for being you. Clearly it's not legally foolproof since they've been repeatedly busted, but somehow they keep going. 
TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Apr 16, 2018 |
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Apr 16, 2018 01:17
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I haven't been to DC for a few months, but the pop ups were everywhere and featured dozens of vendors openly selling all forms of flower, concentrate, and edibles. Reddit groups for vendor meetups and numerous delivery services operating with just the fig leaf of 'donate for this product, comes with free weed' were also the order of the day.
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Apr 16, 2018 07:37
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Tim Raines IRL posted:I totally agree that no one should try to pass off "hemp seed oil" as a medicinal product, but as far as I can tell, you're the only person making the claim that people are. Maybe that's happening in shittier states? I remain curious where your misconception is coming from. The CBD oil I get from the dispensary has a count of 21%, the last test shown from your green mountain link is showing a count of 1.24% and on the other websites you linked I couldn't find any percentage amount of their products.
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Apr 16, 2018 07:58
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MixMasterMalaria posted:I haven't been to DC for a few months, but the pop ups were everywhere and featured dozens of vendors openly selling all forms of flower, concentrate, and edibles. Reddit groups for vendor meetups and numerous delivery services operating with just the fig leaf of 'donate for this product, comes with free weed' were also the order of the day. I like to imagine what the briefings are like about this at MPD. Do they just roll their eyes a lot, are they really spun-up about it, or is there some basic "yeah whatever, bust two of them a month just on principle, not even worth trying to tackle more of them."
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Apr 16, 2018 12:32
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Applebees Appetizer posted:The CBD oil I get from the dispensary has a count of 21%, the last test shown from your green mountain link is showing a count of 1.24% and on the other websites you linked I couldn't find any percentage amount of their products. right, that's a lab report on a cocnut oil suspension before it's been concentrated and standardized. The end product is 20mg of cannabinoids per ml. You can certainly get stronger CBD products (phytodabs shatter is up to 70-80% CBD by weight), I only linked green mountain because it's what I use because it's been they best ratio of price to desired effects (60-80mg/day is where I like to be). I can certainly provide lab reports of other VT CBD oils which are more concentrated, again, this is just the one I use, but if one understands the chemistry then you know it doesn't matter. I've made a hell of a lot of cannabis extracts in my day, back when I was more willing to periodically fireball my kitchen. There are strains which can be as high as 20% CBD right on the bud (the CBDHemp direct link I provided has a strain that's 15), but mostly stuff that high is being sold as high grade cbd bud, not extracted. If your dispensary oil is 21%, you can bet they started with plant matter that was a lot less. anyway, the idea that there's anything magical about dispensary oil that I can't reproduce in my garage with a bunch of cbd bud and a closed-loop extractor, is just wrong. I'll stop beating this into the ground; the thing that triggered me was "hemp is not cannabis", when it literally is. If two products both are full spectrum cannabis extracts, one of them is 10x as concentrated as the other, but the other is dosed 10x as much... you're taking the same thing. Hemp seed oil is not cbd oil, no disagreement there. Cabbages and VHS fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Apr 16, 2018 |
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Apr 16, 2018 13:01
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:I like to imagine what the briefings are like about this at MPD. Do they just roll their eyes a lot, are they really spun-up about it, or is there some basic "yeah whatever, bust two of them a month just on principle, not even worth trying to tackle more of them." there was some early enforcement against a couple vendors, one of whom had his car detailed with giant pictures of bud, last I heard he was in the process of a countersuit. That was the situation when I moved away two years ago; friends who are still there say there's really no enforcement at all these days and these open air "farmer's markets" that get organized on Instagram or wherever are allowed to operate. presumably the people operating as a real business, "donations" or no, are paying DC tax on their business. Even without a real legal sales mechanism with a sin tax, that's got to be contributing significantly to the city's coffers. I liked to joke that DC was the only place hosed and divided enough to legalize weed and not make a dime off of it, but then I moved to Vermont...
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Apr 16, 2018 13:06
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Tim Raines IRL posted:right, that's a lab report on the bud before it's been extracted and standardized. The end product is 20mg of cannabinoids per ml. You can certainly get stronger CBD products (phytodabs shatter is up to 70-80% CBD by weight), I only linked green mountain because it's what I use because it's been they best ratio of price to desired effects (60-80mg/day is where I like to be). This drives me insane also, Godspeed cbd shatter mad scientist (do you really have a closed loop extractor??) For slightly more content, we tried to grow a high CBD strain (The Wife, 25% CBD) where I work, and there ended up being an issue where it seemed to be against the rules to sell ~0% THC weed. Or they just told us that, but I haven't seen any 0% strains advertised anywhere else.
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Apr 16, 2018 13:11
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Inspector Hound posted:This drives me insane also, Godspeed cbd shatter mad scientist (do you really have a closed loop extractor??) nah, I've looked at them but I'm waiting for the legal framework here to settle. As written now, you can't work with hexane or butane at home, I'd prefer co2 anyway because fireballs are bad and so are petroleum fumes, but they're really expensive. Once I have a legal op setup, I'm going to get a press and just make rosin for myself and cook the remains into butter. that's sort of funny, I've never heard of a minimum content. I guess if it's less than 0.3% thc, federally it's not "marijuana", but does that matter? I want to grow harlequin and white widow. Harlequin can be 20:1 cbd:thc. For totally thc free stuff, I've got to see... since that's not marijuana, it's possible that growing a couple of those doesn't count against my plant limits, I need to talk to the local weed legal experts. Cabbages and VHS fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Apr 16, 2018 |
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Apr 16, 2018 13:16
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Tim Raines IRL posted:anyway, the idea that there's anything magical about dispensary oil that I can't reproduce in my garage with a bunch of cbd bud and a closed-loop extractor, is just wrong. I'll stop beating this into the ground; the thing that triggered me was "hemp is not cannabis", when it literally is. If two products both are full spectrum cannabis extracts, one of them is 10x as concentrated as the other, but the other is dosed 10x as much... you're taking the same thing. You don't see a problem with a tincture of 3% CBD being the same price as one with 20%? Yeah you're taking the same thing but have to take 10x as much to get the same benefits at a much higher cost? How is that helpful? The problem is without any kind of standardization/regualtion anyone can call something CBD oil even if it has .001% CBD in it and market it as medically beneficial. I get that some of it has higher counts and is beneficial, but how do you know which ones are and which ones are not? No one selling "Hemp CBD oil" on Amazon is showing the CBD percentage, but they are all claiming to provide the benefits CBD. I'm not saying there's anything magical about dispensary CBD, but at least I know exactly what I'm getting because they have to provide the information, like I said those websites you posted besides Green Mountain weren't very clear about the amounts of CBD in their products. I don't want to beat this into the ground either, but there's clearly some ambiguity going on.
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Apr 16, 2018 18:56
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Applebees Appetizer posted:You don't see a problem with a tincture of 3% CBD being the same price as one with 20%? Yeah you're taking the same thing but have to take 10x as much to get the same benefits at a much higher cost? How is that helpful? There's places that will sell you a bottle of beer that's 2.3% ABV for the same price as beers that are 10% ABV or even 18% ABV. As long as it's properly labeled how's that a problem really?
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Apr 16, 2018 20:42
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fishmech posted:There's places that will sell you a bottle of beer that's 2.3% ABV for the same price as beers that are 10% ABV or even 18% ABV. As long as it's properly labeled how's that a problem really? It's not labeled, that's the problem. It would be like labeling all beer "contains alcohol".
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Apr 16, 2018 23:52
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Applebees Appetizer posted:It's not labeled, that's the problem. It would be like labeling all beer "contains alcohol". Everything I buy here is clearly labelled, and I'm pretty sure that the products I'm getting are going to end up being as cheap / cheaper per gram of CBD than whatever you're buying at the dispensary. I'd be real curious to know, though! quote:You don't see a problem with a tincture of 3% CBD being the same price as one with 20%? quote:those websites you posted besides Green Mountain weren't very clear about the amounts of CBD in their products. CWBotanicals used to be, now they say "25mg hemp extract" which is yes, confusing, because based on my experience with them that probably means "25mg cannabinnoids" but who the gently caress knows (also that stuff is ludicrously expensive, like 10x as much as I pay for high-end). CBDHemp direct is literally just selling bud, they provide GC/MS per strain, so you can calculate grams of CBD in product by multiplying number of grams purchased * percentage. Notably, it ends up being much cheaper than processed CBD oil, as you'd expect. Ex: "gunpowder" is 11.34% CBD, $239.99 for 1/4lb = 113.25g = 12.84g of CBD = $18/g of CBD. I'm not disagreeing with you in that there's a lot of sketch and bullshit out there, but it's not hard to find easily quantifiable products with lab results. Green Mountain is on the lower end per G CBD pricewise for finished products -- but they have been on the record publicly stating that they believe the market is being inflated by nonsense and they are aiming to bring prices down by 50-75% over the next 2 years as they hit scale. We'll see... Cabbages and VHS fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Apr 17, 2018 |
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Apr 17, 2018 00:21
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Tim Raines IRL posted:Everything I buy here is clearly labelled, and I'm pretty sure that the products I'm getting are going to end up being as cheap / cheaper per gram of CBD than whatever you're buying at the dispensary. I'd be real curious to know, though! You don't think the percentage should be labeled? I think it should be to make everything more transparent. The beer alcohol percentage is actually a pretty good analogy, why can't i see the percentage of CBD in the product I'm buying? I pay $60 for 500mg tincture, at 21% from the dispensary. Trust me I'm paying attention because if I can get the same poo poo significantly cheaper I'd be all over it, but I need to know exactly what I'm getting before i go buying it, at least the dispensary can provide all the information I need. Also I'd rather have a higher concentration so I don't have to take as much throughout the day. as it stands right now I'm using about probably 50+mg per day, with something less potent I'm obviously going to be using more so the whole cheaper thing kinda goes out the window.
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Apr 17, 2018 01:39
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Applebees Appetizer posted:You don't think the percentage should be labeled? I think it should be to make everything more transparent. The beer alcohol percentage is actually a pretty good analogy, why can't i see the percentage of CBD in the product I'm buying? It is labelled. The thing that matters is the total dose you take. That is, if you're consuming 50mg of full-spectrum cannabinnoids it doesn't really matter if it's suspended in 1ml of MCT, 2ml of coconut oil or a quarter tablespoon of butter -- you're getting the same thing either way. Also, if you really want to know the concentration % for some strange reason, knowing the total quantity of cannabinnoids and the volume of the container (both of which are listed on every product I've linked) is all you need, you can use basic math to calculate the concentration. To do this really accurately, you'd need to look up the specific weight of the carrier as well as specific weight of cannabinoids, so we're talking ~9th grade math and not 5th grade basic division. It's not very hard, but it also doesn't really tell you anything of value? quote:I pay $60 for 500mg tincture, at 21% from the dispensary. To be really clear and pedantic on the math -- the "21%" is not important, what's important is the "500mg" total cannabinoids. If you take your 21% tincture and mix it with MCT oil at a 1:1 ratio, then you'll have something which is 10.5% CBD, and if you take twice as much of it, you're getting the exact same dose. The total dose is what's interesting, not the weight of the carrier substance. The cost per MG of cannabinoids is what's financially important, not the cost of the carrier substance. quote:with something less potent I'm obviously going to be using more so the whole cheaper thing kinda goes out the window. No. If you're paying $60 for 500mg, that's $0.12 per mg. I pay $30 for 600mg which is $0.05 cents per mg. The fact that the product you're buying is more concentrated just means you're consuming less oil, not that you're saving money (you're spending more). If I wanted to be real clever and cook my own, then I would get a quarter pound of the high-CBD flower I linked above, decarb and extract it by sautéing it in butter for an extended period, and strain. Assuming 30% loss, that still only ends up costing $0.025 per mg. That's less than a fifth what you're paying now, and about half of what I'm paying. If cost were an issue, I'd definitely just be making butter myself. The nice thing about going that route is that if you're in a legal state and you also want some higher amount of THC in the mix, you can just add whatever other cannabis you want to the CBD flower before cooking. Downsides to that DIY route are that butter, while very good at pulling out cannabinoids and a number of other parts of the plant, is not going to give you a truly full-spectrum extract. Additionally, the amount of butter needed to approach optimal extraction, is going to be greater than the amounts of other solvents used when this is done industrially, so you're going to have an end product that you have to consume more of to get the same dose. I wasn't kidding about DIY with a closed-loop extractor letting you make dispensary-grade stuff in your kitchen, but the equipment needed to get up and running on that is going to set you back four digits (possibly more if you want to use CO2 and not volatile petro solvents). Depending on where you are and how regulated the market is, a lot of the dispensary oil is almost certainly just stuff some guy cooked up with a closed-loop extractor in his kitchen. I would apologize for the 10-post derail into the economics of CBD and extraction teks, but it's not like this thread has really been blowing up with content, so I'm letting my long-caged inner  TCC poster out to play for a little bit.
Cabbages and VHS fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Apr 17, 2018 |
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Apr 17, 2018 15:32
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In other, possibly worrying news, two pharmaceutical companies appear to be getting close to FDA approval for CBD: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-17/drug-made-from-cannabis-plant-gets-backing-from-fda-staff https://globenewswire.com/news-rele...i-Syndrome.html Are we approaching a legal war, where pharma cos with cannabinoid patents start filing patent-infringement lawsuits against hemp and cannabis processing companies? They are calling the latter a "proprietary CBD formulation", which makes me think their IP might be on the carrier and not on the molecule itself, but if we really see the emergence of pharma CBD products with RCTs backing them, I can't believe we're not going to see an attempt to drive full-plant-extract CBD makers out of the business. FWIW, I have never found CBD isolate to be nearly as effective for anything, as full-spectrum.
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Apr 17, 2018 15:49
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Reminder that Oklahoma is voting a ballot initiative on MMJ in June, and polling from January is looking promising:quote:Forty-five percent of those questioned said they strongly support an upcoming state question that would legalize medical marijuana, and 17 percent said they somewhat support it.
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Apr 17, 2018 21:32
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Tim Raines IRL posted:In other, possibly worrying news, two pharmaceutical companies appear to be getting close to FDA approval for CBD: In my opinion this is good news because unscheduled drugs that come from botanical sources are exempt from a lot of FDA regulation. But if the drug is approved it means that people can get CBD on their insurance. Of course a lot of INSYS executives should be in prison for illegally distributing fent.
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Apr 17, 2018 22:01
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Dmitri-9 posted:Of course a lot of INSYS executives should be in prison for illegally distributing fent. My senator is actively trying, anyway: https://www.statnews.com/2018/04/17/bernie-sanders-bill-jail-opioid-crisis/
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Apr 18, 2018 01:44
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Dmitri-9 posted:In my opinion this is good news because unscheduled drugs that come from botanical sources are exempt from a lot of FDA regulation. Any substance which is sold with a therapeutic claim is defined as a drug by the FDA whether it comes from a botanical or not. If I sold you a handful of walnuts and said they treat depression then the FDA would classify those walnuts as unapproved drugs. The therapeutic claim I made causes them to be a drug. KingEup fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Apr 18, 2018 |
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Apr 18, 2018 02:41
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Which is why many of these things will have an asterisk somewhere on their labels stating that they aren't intended to treat anything. So they would make a package of walnuts, called happy nuts, and very obliquely imply that they would cure depression, but then have that little asterisk and the wording so that they, while not completely untouchable, become impractical to sue by someone without the money to do so and an axe to grind. Countless supplements are sold because people believe that they do something, and would have to be shown that the thing they are taking was actively and demonstrably harming them before they would even consider not buying it. thechosenone fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Apr 18, 2018 |
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Apr 18, 2018 15:12
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This is a pretty big deal, right? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2018/04/19/schumer-backs-effort-to-decriminalize-marijuana/?utm_term=.69c09980ed1d quote:The Senate’s top Democrat announced Friday that he is introducing legislation to decriminalize marijuana, the first time that a leader of either party in Congress has endorsed a rollback of one of the country’s oldest drug laws.
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Apr 20, 2018 16:10
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No. It will die in the house. e. if it's even allowed to reach a vote to begin with, which it 100% will not GonadTheBallbarian fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Apr 20, 2018 |
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Apr 20, 2018 18:05
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Is it just me, or is 4/20 quickly reaching the status of a legit national holiday? I'm in sinful New York City so my perspective might be skewed, but the amount of coverage in the news and the amount of shops that are advertising it is wild. We're like 5 years off from Starbucks having a CBD latte promotion on 4/20.
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Apr 20, 2018 22:22
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I'm in Vancouver and in addition to there being a huge festival on the beach downtown with dozens and dozens of stands selling bud, a lot of the local businesses here are doing $4.20 pie and coffee deals and the like. I have a strong feeling that will trickle southwards pretty quickly with growing acceptance.
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Apr 20, 2018 22:48
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yeah i actually think weed-related 4/20 might actually become a government holiday somewhere in my lifetime
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Apr 20, 2018 23:44
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Joe Mama Poonana posted:yeah i actually think weed-related 4/20 might actually become a government holiday somewhere in my lifetime It's already more of a real holiday than some of the other dumb poo poo that's floating around (talk like a pirate day, Pi day, looking at you guys).
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Apr 21, 2018 01:58
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Gov LePage in Maine tried to veto legal weed again, but the legislature overruled his veto, so Maine is finally back on track to fully legalize. The bill that the legislature finally came to support is more conservative than the initial ballot question, so doesn't allow social clubs, and limits plants to 3 instead of 6. They expect to have their first legal commercial sales in spring 2019. https://www.pressherald.com/2018/05/02/house-overturns-lepage-veto-on-recreational-marijuana-bill/
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May 3, 2018 03:49
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:The bill that the legislature finally came to support is more conservative than the initial ballot question, so doesn't allow social clubs, and limits plants to 3 instead of 6. They expect to have their first legal commercial sales in spring 2019. Good for them but VT needs to get this poo poo fixed because our tax base is shrinking and we're losing the race to market. We've got the slopes, and really none of these other NE states can say that. We need to set it up so that tourists can trivially buy $50 slices of taxed primo on their way to spend $150 skiing for a day.
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May 7, 2018 18:24
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https://twitter.com/mjs_DC/status/992527168482791431
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May 8, 2018 00:37
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The Marianas islands, a US territory in the Pacific, passed a weed legalization bill in its Senate which now goes to the House: https://www.saipantribune.com/index.php/senate-oks-marijuana-bill/ Both CNMI and Guam have been teetering on the edge of Legalization for a while, partially because they're tourist destinations for Asia and could totally clean up selling Japanese tourists overpriced pre-rolls. As a minor side note, another US Pacific territory, American Samoa, has the harshest weed laws of anywhere in the US.
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May 19, 2018 02:31
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The smokable cannabis portion of the FL MMJ enacting act has been ruled unconstitutional but is stayed pending SCOFL review. So soon enough smokeable cannabis will be legal for medical patients in florida.
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May 26, 2018 02:10
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drat NJ is still blue-balling: legal weed is polling 59-37 but the legislative process is going nowhere fast.
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May 27, 2018 06:37
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:drat NJ is still blue-balling: legal weed is polling 59-37 but the legislative process is going nowhere fast. It just makes no drat sense how something that polls so high and is obvious common sense has such incredible inertia. New Jersey doesn't even have that much of a vocal iron ball of conservative rural nutjobs dragging at its ankle, unlike neighboring Pennsylvania or New York.
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May 28, 2018 02:38
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:It just makes no drat sense how something that polls so high and is obvious common sense has such incredible inertia. New Jersey doesn't even have that much of a vocal iron ball of conservative rural nutjobs dragging at its ankle, unlike neighboring Pennsylvania or New York. One of the prevailing theories is that support for legal weed is "broad but not deep", and that the majority of pro-weed folks are unlikely to change their vote over it either way, so inertia is the safest move. There are some good think pieces online of why politicians are so gunshy about this. Then you also have plenty of old-school drug warriors ensconced in the senior Dem hierarchy, notably Feinstein who literally won't endorse what her own state has already done. I'm honestly surprised the GOP hasn't made more moves to steal this ball from the Dems, which almost happened in 2016 when Hillary was being a stick in the mud while half the GOP hopefulls were supporting states rights for legal states. TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 04:18 on May 28, 2018 |
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May 28, 2018 04:15
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Michigan GOP has been talking for a month about just legalizing weed in the legislature, since it's expected to pass by ballot in November anyway. But if it passes in the legislature, they can make much stricter rules and also avoid the issue being a vote driver for the Dems in the mid-term. The largest anti-weed group in MI is actually pushing for the legislature option, since they see the writing on the wall for November, so they'd prefer a stricter legislature solution. That said, the GOP has dicked around and argued too much about this proposal, and they only have until 5 June to make it happen. So probably legal will get approved by a landslide in November.
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May 28, 2018 04:26
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Michigan GOP has been talking for a month about just legalizing weed in the legislature, since it's expected to pass by ballot in November anyway. But if it passes in the legislature, they can make much stricter rules and also avoid the issue being a vote driver for the Dems in the mid-term.  The Michigan Legislature has until the end of the day tomorrow to accept the Michigan Marijuana proposal, or it goes on the November ballot. If they reject the proposal, it also goes on the November ballot. https://ballotpedia.org/Michigan_Marijuana_Legalization_Initiative_(2018)
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Jun 4, 2018 14:43
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Nth Doctor posted:
Voters will decide marijuana legalization after Legislature fails to act
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Jun 6, 2018 03:25
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Why?
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Jun 6, 2018 03:33
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The Michigan ballot proposal process runs in a few discrete phases. Firstly, you gather signatures. The number of signatures required is based off of the last statewide election's turnout, so having an initiative in an off year is odd, since the required number of signatures was based off of 2016. Once you have enough signatures, and the State Board of Elections certifies the signatures, the proposal goes to the State Legislature. They have 40 days to either approve and possibly amend the language in the proposal. If they do not approve it, either as it was written or in an amended form, the proposal automatically goes onto the ballot. There was talk of the GOP controlled house and senate approving the proposal with amendments in order to not let it stir up Democratic enthusiasm in November.
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Jun 6, 2018 04:27
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What I'm asking is why couldn't they approve it with the amendments and such? If it's got huge popular support, doing so would hurt Democrats in the next election, if they could mess around with the law in all sorts of ways to serve their goals, and they were up against a ticking clock which they can blame all their actions on, why couldn't they just do the dang thing? Who or what was stopping them??
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Jun 6, 2018 04:36
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