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Splicer posted:If reality can be altered by an observer through sufficient force of will that just means we're living in an objective reality where one of the core rules is that reality can be altered by an observer through sufficient force of will. Yeah, but the point is more, 'can that change in reality be measured?'. You get the same thing when it comes to alternative medicines in the real world where the arguments supporting them tend to be to the flavour of 'the patients feel better you just can't measure how and why that is purely with numbers or with any consistency'. Which isn't me supporting alternative medicines in the real world but the argument is correct in that our ability to actually measure all the factors involved is incredibly limited and past that point 'comes down to faith', which is, I think, what the game is suggesting.
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Apr 18, 2018 17:30
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Sloober posted:man i think will to power is gonna replace my boring 10% research speed boost. that and the masterbuilders means hab spam is uh, a thing again Will to Power is a unity ambition, not an ascension perk. So you can have both!
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Apr 18, 2018 17:31
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Splicer posted:There was a shuffling around when utopia hit. Base find chance is lower but the discovery edict gives you a quick boost. Also the very first thing you should do when starting a new game is Empire Edicts -> Map the Stars. I not only do this, but my favorite current opening is to wait on any surveying until unlocking the discovery tree for a sizable increase in your core area. Taking the initial wait time to fill out starting system and some more minerals on my starting planet and using the 'explore' option on connected systems (in the future with hidden hyperlanes I'll scout a bit to decide where I want to expand towards) to be able to hunt down the initial pirate spawn.
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Apr 18, 2018 17:34
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Shadowlyger posted:Will to Power is a unity ambition, not an ascension perk. So you can have both! oh geez i didnt notice that also seriously as if spiritual empires are not already able to run the whole list of unity ambitions simultaneously
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Apr 18, 2018 17:35
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ZypherIM posted:I not only do this, but my favorite current opening is to wait on any surveying until unlocking the discovery tree for a sizable increase in your core area. Taking the initial wait time to fill out starting system and some more minerals on my starting planet and using the 'explore' option on connected systems (in the future with hidden hyperlanes I'll scout a bit to decide where I want to expand towards) to be able to hunt down the initial pirate spawn. Nickiepoo posted:Yeah, but the point is more, 'can that change in reality be measured?'. A recent study (reproduction of results not yet attempted etc) indicates that giving people a placebo and telling them it's a placebo but also giving then a reason why placebos work is as effective as not telling them it's a placebo. Splicer fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Apr 18, 2018 |
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Apr 18, 2018 17:56
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Splicer posted:We totally can measure how much alternative medicine makes people feel better. We do it all the time! It's just the answers keep coming out as "pretty much the same as the group who were getting placebos" which alternative medicine practitioners find inconvenient. Yeah, there's a reason that 'alternative medicine' that works simply becomes 'medicine', but our visibility on how even fully scientific and mainstream medicine 'actually works' tends to be grossly limited compared to what people expect. The point obviously isn't to turn this into an argument about medicine so much as suggest that it's possible for elements of the universe to be outside of 'purely scientific' visibility simply because purely scientific visibility can sometimes be rigid or limited by the tools available, and a species/society that adhered completely to that (as ours doesn't) might have trouble with concepts that lay outside of 'what we can see in a lab', particularly when it comes to concepts like The Shroud. Such things might not exist in the real world, sure, but I'm purely talking about how to justify the ethics concept within the game.
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Apr 18, 2018 18:32
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Splicer posted:https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/986515206116429825?s=20 At what point does Stellaris become Tradewars 2002?
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Apr 18, 2018 18:44
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Splicer posted:There was a shuffling around when utopia hit. Base find chance is lower but the discovery edict gives you a quick boost. Also the very first thing you should do when starting a new game is Empire Edicts -> Map the Stars. I have the edict working and the unity thing, but it still feels a bit low. Maybe it's just me.
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Apr 18, 2018 19:25
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I'm really curious to see how the new Master Builders works out, because halving the speed bonus in exchange for another new one reminds me of what they did with World Shaper, and that perk is arguably worse than it was before (Gaia worlds are still questionable investments and basic terraforming takes longer than it did before since the speed buff got removed).
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Apr 18, 2018 19:51
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If you have positive energy and use happiness, I'm pretty sure Gaia worlds are pretty much always worth it (flat production bonus and a happiness bonus). If you're a hive mind they're probably still worth it, and if you're a machine empire you have your own version of Gaia worlds instead.
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Apr 18, 2018 19:56
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ZypherIM posted:If you have positive energy and use happiness, I'm pretty sure Gaia worlds are pretty much always worth it (flat production bonus and a happiness bonus). If you're a hive mind they're probably still worth it, and if you're a machine empire you have your own version of Gaia worlds instead. I haven't mathed it out or anything but the planet being uncolonizable or running at -20% happiness for several decades is a pretty big opportunity cost.
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Apr 18, 2018 20:01
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It is 20 years default, -5 if you have terraforming liquids, -5 if you have the ruler trait. Unless your game is ending very soon, you take a happiness penalty (at most should push you down to "no bonus"), then later you get +10% production and a +10% happiness bonus. As long as you can swing the energy cost and aren't about to get into a giant war where you need every bit of energy/minerals it is going to be worth it.
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Apr 18, 2018 20:22
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The happiness penalty for active terraforming is silly and bad. It should only be a penalty for species where the new planet class is less habitable for them. "Arg, I'm so upset that this dry desert planet is slowly becoming cooler and wetter and generally more comfortable! I'm going to be extra mad about things getting better on top of already being mad its too hot until the planet is officially perfect!" Then again planet classes should be abandoned and instead have gravity, temperature, and water be slider-like values you can nudge around over time with terraforming techs to match your species preferred slider preferences.
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Apr 18, 2018 20:43
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Baronjutter posted:The happiness penalty for active terraforming is silly and bad. It should only be a penalty for species where the new planet class is less habitable for them. "Arg, I'm so upset that this dry desert planet is slowly becoming cooler and wetter and generally more comfortable! I'm going to be extra mad about things getting better on top of already being mad its too hot until the planet is officially perfect!" Baronjutter, please sit down. This is a slider intervention. All of your friends in the Stellaris thread are all really worried about you, do you understand?
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Apr 18, 2018 20:46
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Today's patch seems incredibly buggy!
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Apr 18, 2018 20:46
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Honestly you could probably remove the penalty altogether since you already need an expensive tech deep in the tech tree that serves no other purpose just to unlock the ability. Unrelated, but I've always wondered; why would you want to bar a species from military service? Limited service makes sense if they wouldn't make good generals but I can't see any advantage to not being able to raise defense armies from them.
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Apr 18, 2018 20:48
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Baronjutter posted:The happiness penalty for active terraforming is silly and bad. It should only be a penalty for species where the new planet class is less habitable for them. "Arg, I'm so upset that this dry desert planet is slowly becoming cooler and wetter and generally more comfortable! I'm going to be extra mad about things getting better on top of already being mad its too hot until the planet is officially perfect!" Something like the dominion system in Dominions 3 and 4 would be neat.
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Apr 18, 2018 21:08
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Midnightghoul posted:Today's patch seems incredibly buggy! Is that bugging you? 
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Apr 18, 2018 21:10
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Jabarto posted:Honestly you could probably remove the penalty altogether since you already need an expensive tech deep in the tech tree that serves no other purpose just to unlock the ability. Your xenophobes ask: “You want to give weapons to those people!?”
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Apr 18, 2018 21:49
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has anyone tried out the star trek mod with the latest patch? I updated it like an idiot half way through a game and I'm getting the incompatibility flag, and I'm wondering if I should just leave it until the mod updates. The changes didn't look TOO significant . . . edit: gently caress me, never mind, they got that updated hours after the patch dropped. Goddamn the new horizons guys are on the ball. Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Apr 18, 2018 |
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Apr 18, 2018 21:53
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crazypeltast52 posted:Your xenophobes ask: “You want to give weapons to those animals!?”
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Apr 18, 2018 22:06
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Cyrano4747 posted:has anyone tried out the star trek mod with the latest patch? I updated it like an idiot half way through a game and I'm getting the incompatibility flag, and I'm wondering if I should just leave it until the mod updates. The changes didn't look TOO significant . . . New Horizons is one of the more impressive mod projects I've ever seen.
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Apr 18, 2018 22:17
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Midnightghoul posted:Today's patch seems incredibly buggy! For those wondering how buggy: Glavius's Mod posted:2.0.3 is completely broken and this mod will not be updated for it
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Apr 18, 2018 22:21
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Cool a new stellaris patch! Maybe I'll start a new game because the last few have ended up too buggy to enjoy. Sounds like there's lots of fixes and balance issues addressed, it's nice that they made a patch to polish off the last few bugs and major issues since 2.0 came out in a rather unfinished state. Oh...
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Apr 18, 2018 22:27
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Ok that convinced me to roll back to 2.0.1, I want to try out that Origin Civics mod against AI which are at least some kind of obstacle.
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Apr 18, 2018 22:28
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Sounds like all space combat graphics and sounds are busted too, they just circle each other Forums are saying warscore is bugged as well and won't go beyond 43%
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Apr 18, 2018 22:39
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Was reading the thread on the latest patch. How is something so broken released? I know this is a paradox game we're talking about but I thought they stopped doing this.
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Apr 18, 2018 22:41
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Baronjutter posted:Was reading the thread on the latest patch. How is something so broken released? I know this is a paradox game we're talking about but I thought they stopped doing this. Yeah that sounds very vintage paradox.
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Apr 18, 2018 22:54
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Baronjutter posted:Was reading the thread on the latest patch. How is something so broken released? I know this is a paradox game we're talking about but I thought they stopped doing this. I remember the exact same thing happened a few patches ago when they didn't beta test something and had to apologize
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Apr 18, 2018 22:55
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Midnightghoul posted:I remember the exact same thing happened a few patches ago when they didn't beta test something and had to apologize Yeah the new guy Jamor promised not to release game-stopping bugs again and will test better.
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Apr 18, 2018 22:57
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LonsomeSon posted:Ok that convinced me to roll back to 2.0.1, I want to try out that Origin Civics mod against AI which are at least some kind of obstacle. Consider playing 2.0.2, the patch that includes a giant round of fixes and was extensively tested.
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Apr 18, 2018 23:00
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Is there a way to roll back to 2.0.2 on steam or is that something you gotta do manually?
Hungry fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Apr 18, 2018 |
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Apr 18, 2018 23:17
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Shadowlyger posted:For those wondering how buggy: wow, why is the Stellaris AI such garbage?
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Apr 18, 2018 23:19
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Hungry posted:Is there a way to roll back to 2.0.2 on steam or is that something you gotta do manually? Was about to ask this myself.
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Apr 18, 2018 23:20
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Hungry posted:Is there a way to roll back to 2.0.2 on steam or is that something you gotta do manually? Yeah right click the game in the game library list view, click Properties, click the Betas tab, and then choose the 2.0.1 build because lol the 2.0.2 one isn't there  Normally steam lets you roll back to any previous patch, for whatever reason I guess 2.0.2 isn't there right now.
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Apr 18, 2018 23:20
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ToxicSlurpee posted:The way it's portrayed is basically that prayer and religion actually work but only for psychics. Natural psychics are absurdly rare and do things that don't follow the laws of physics. Getting past the Shroud opens up why it works but even then it doesn't behave in a clean, predictable, mathematical way. There are underlying rules but they're incomprehensible. These physics are rooted in psychology? That's really loving weird, but not incomprehensible. Not unstudiable. Splicer posted:No more troubling than "If you look real close at the components of atoms it turns out they kind of don't entirely exist". The materialist/scientific response to that would be "OK, what counts as "will", how do we measure it, who has it, who doesn't, why, can we reproduce it artificially, and how can weaponise it and/or use it to make porn". It's got to be a spiteful force that behaves differently depending on intent, and if the intent is to study and define it, it doesn't work. It would only work if you have faith and a "pure" (non-materialistic) motive. Though I guess if that were the case you could defeat a psionic empire by engaging them in elaborate scientific experiments designed to look like battles, which would keep all the psionic abilities from working.
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Apr 19, 2018 01:51
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Ham Sandwiches posted:Yeah right click the game in the game library list view, click Properties, click the Betas tab, and then choose the 2.0.1 build because lol the 2.0.2 one isn't there It's there:  Guess they collected enough salt from the forums and decided to add it back.
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Apr 19, 2018 01:57
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It's nice that 2.0.2 has been added to the list of previous patches. I figured the AI would lag behind for 2.0 release with all the major balance changes requiring AI updates and testing, it does seem to be in fairly bad shape at the moment though.
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Apr 19, 2018 02:02
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Imagine that I quoted the guy from a month ago saying that Stellaris is the best Early access game on Steam.
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Apr 19, 2018 03:15
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Splicer posted:We totally can measure how much alternative medicine makes people feel better. We do it all the time! It's just the answers keep coming out as "pretty much the same as the group who were getting placebos" which alternative medicine practitioners find inconvenient. Of course the thing there is that we have no drat idea why placebos work just that they sometimes do. Like basically every alternative medicine woo can be proven to not actually work like real medicine but the placebo effect does enough. Eiba posted:Yeah, but materialists have to deal with that all the time. If not freaky poo poo like quantum reality, obvious macro stuff like human societies. Probabilities deal with uncertainties. Yes probabilities deal with uncertainties but even in that case you can predict things in the aggregate. At the same time you can predict things accurately enough. Take the weather for example; weather prediction is accurate enough that you can't ignore it but too inaccurate to rely on. The patterns are there and can be modeled they're just very chaotic. But even that isn't really chaotic; we know the math. Psychology is the same. You can't easily predict what an individual will do but you can get a pretty good idea of what a group will do. Psychics, though...and the stuff beyond the Shroud? That poo poo doesn't make sense. Since it's very thoughty (this is a very scientific word) it seems to have a mind of its own so the math is basically "the gently caress if I know how this poo poo works." But the thing is...on a rare occasion it does. Real world math is basically "it works this way all the time until a psychic gets involved." I also figure that materialists would be ultra skeptics that find ways to explain away any bizarre phenomenon. Like "yeah that ancient story about that messiah? Made up. Photographic evidence of a miracle? Just a coincidence. Dude got very lucky." Granted this is why I figure that psychic stuff isn't entirely locked away from materialist empires. It exists and they can poke and prod at it but they're way less likely to than a spiritualist empire for just those reasons. Once they see proof that the Shroud is, in fact, A Thing and psychics do in fact exist then they'll be like "wow, let's study this." I figure materialists are also practical as gently caress so when psychics show up or a spiritualist empire ascends their whole race into psychics the materialists just go "OK so it exists. How do we study it?" It's just it isn't part of the observable, physical universe and as far as they've seen so far interacts with it very, very weakly very, very rarely. Though one more thing occurs to me; if it is entirely faith-based as you say then materialists have faith that psychic anything is 100% bullshit. If you believe it then it can't work for you even if you're psychic. However spiritualists believe in spiritual realms and have faith that it does exist so for them it can work. In that case it'd be more of a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you believe it can't work then you make it not work for you. So of course the materialists would look at how rare psychic phenomenon are, figure that it's just weird coincidences or things that are just mathematically improbable, and conclude that psychic powers don't exist. Once that takes root in the society overall then psychic powers over time become less and less common as the belief is that they don't even exist. Then there's also the question of actually developing them like a skill; if people believe they don't exist then nobody will bother developing the ability even if they do have it. In a spiritualist empire somebody that can get an eerily accurate prediction of the future will probably become an oracle or something. In the materialist empire they'll just write it off as being a good guesser and ignore it.
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Apr 19, 2018 03:42
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