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Neurolimal posted:It's not a singleplayer game man, both players need to be rewarded for doing smart stuff How is this "smart stuff"? It reminds me of the old MTG damage on stack rules, where if you know how the rules work there's always a correct option. It's system mastery, not skill.
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Apr 19, 2018 01:01
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NovemberMike posted:How is this "smart stuff"? It reminds me of the old MTG damage on stack rules, where if you know how the rules work there's always a correct option. It's system mastery, not skill. They're utilizing terrain to their advantage, apparently in an area where the only option available to the opponent is landlocked melee units, in an orientation that denies space to the enemy. Booley posted:No. FLY assault units still need space to land in order to charge. They just don't have to measure the vertical distance, So in other words, they can charge and thin the shooting balconeers for their landed bretheren, since they dont have to actually land on the same level as the shooters, just within 1" horizontally. Unless I'm mistaken, then feel free to correct me.
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Apr 19, 2018 01:07
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I also really hate the rule of 3 I usealy play 4 CC (i mean he is the only good HQ choice we have) So makes me this to a spamlist player? I think not! In addition it limits the way you could list build. No mass Infantry anymore, no Tank army anymore,.... I'am really happy that this nonsense only effects organized play. So i can still play fluffy and good Guard lists in my local Community I know that Troops are not effected by this Rule but you can't run more than 3 Comany Commander to Order them, or you can't run more than 3 HWTs to support them,or you can't run more than 3 Commissars to Moral boost them,... the List goes on And for Tanks Swadrones aren't that great. you just get all the disadvantage(must be deployed close together, only takes 1 HS slot so filling Detachments is hard) for no advantage And well a Tank Commander is also really nice but he isn't a very Good HQ choice more a BS upgrade for the Tank. all the other HQ choices in the Codex(Primaris Psyker,Lord Commissar,....) have only limited Synergy's with the other units. I might overreact a little bit to this Anti-Spam rule but i don't like the Idea of being punished for a crime i didn't commit. 4 CC for example i wouldn't call this a spam but a fluffy list the 9 Orders won't be enough if you want to play 12 Infantry Squads that's what i meant when i said no mass Infantry anymore And i know this list isn't that competitive but it is fluffy and fun to play. I didn't even mentioned all my HWTs and Command Squads who became Orderless in this List. Ans yes i think you should at least be able to Order every Infantry Squad ore they will die just doing nothing at all. I mean they are not great, what makes them great are the Orders. At least thats my opinion B&C
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Apr 19, 2018 01:13
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TTerrible posted:It's better balanced because it's better balanced. It has plenty of factions that need to be balanced against each other. You're ignoring how different the armies are to each other, over and over again. It is not codex space marines vs codex space marines. It is not 7th edition. And no one is saying it's literally 7th edition. You're refuting an argument that no one but you is making. TTerrible posted:I already play Infinity and CoC (and picked up What a Tanker at salute).
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Apr 19, 2018 01:14
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Seriously just shoot them first to thin numbers. There's not a single army in the game that can't muster any shooting. If they unit in question is on a critical objective clearly that's where the shooting needs to go. If they're not, ignore them. If you have literally zero ways for dealing with that scenario you lost the game to yourself on Turn 0, not to your opponent using terrain within the letter of the rules.
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Apr 19, 2018 01:15
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Neurolimal posted:They're utilizing terrain to their advantage, apparently in an area where the only option available to the opponent is landlocked melee units, in an orientation that denies space to the enemy. Right, and what's the drawback?
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Apr 19, 2018 01:16
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Neurolimal posted:If you dont find it fun to work around the flaws of your army, maybe its not an army you should play? Yeah man, gently caress those people who put all that time and money into their army and have no agency whatsoever when it comes to how rules change.
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Apr 19, 2018 01:17
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Thank you for including this part, because I was about two seconds from queuing up my significantly higher-effort response for no reason.
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Apr 19, 2018 01:17
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NovemberMike posted:Right, and what's the drawback? They can never leave that piece of terrain without being instantly dismembered. Also Ruins tend to have lovely LOS, and if they're being unnecessarily pedantic/obnoxious about exploiting it, return the favor when it comes to measuring LOS.
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Apr 19, 2018 01:18
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Ilor posted:I still think you're being disingenuous. I think even you would agree that "various flavors of super-human dudes in various types of power armor" is substantially different - both thematically and mechanically - from, say, "orks." Or "tyranids." The wider your net is cast in terms of wildly different play styles or troop types, the harder it is to balance forces against each other. Surely that is not an unreasonable assertion? It's a completely valid assertion that the balancing is harder, but peope are being incredibly reductive by saying it's just marines vs marines like both players are working from the same list - and completely ignoring the other lists that are so widly varied. They're the kind of thing that hasn't been in 40k for a long time. They're like the old tyranid lists with crazy biomorph options. Ilor posted:And no one is saying it's literally 7th edition. You're refuting an argument that no one but you is making. When people are saying "I can't use my Tau!!" they're treating it like 7th 40k. Ilor posted:Now we're loving talkin'! I can't wait to get WaT to the table! My hardcopy arrived yesterday. I'm unlikely to have time to play with all these people being wrong on the internet.
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Apr 19, 2018 01:19
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Neurolimal posted:So in other words, they can charge and thin the shooting balconeers for their landed bretheren, since they dont have to actually land on the same level as the shooters, just within 1" horizontally. Unless I'm mistaken, then feel free to correct me. That's not how it works. The model needs to be within 1", measured directly base to base, for the charge to succeed. To determine how far the charging unit with FLY can go, you ignore vertical distance. So if you're 4" away from a unit that's 3" up, it's a 4" charge, not the 7" charge that a unit without fly would need to make. They still need to get within 1" measured directly. Strobe posted:Seriously just shoot them first to thin numbers. There's not a single army in the game that can't muster any shooting. If they unit in question is on a critical objective clearly that's where the shooting needs to go. If they're not, ignore them. Yes, its dealable with. It requires a shift in lists from what could work previously, with quite a bit more shooting, and using that anti-infantry shooting to clear their units off objectives rather than using the shooting to keep your objectives clear. Previously, for example, I might use my shooting to clear the blob of poxwalkers coming at me, while my deepstrike melee kills plague marines deployed in ruins in the backfield. Now, I need to use shooting to both kill the poxwalkers coming at me and kill enough of the plague marines in the back to let my melee charge them.
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Apr 19, 2018 01:22
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So I recently ordered 40 Scions. They are all still in their sealed boxes, I could send them back. The reason for my doubts about this purchase is the deep strike beta rule. Yes it is a beta rule, and it may not be adopted. My local community is almost 50/50 split about it. But I expect a lot of tournaments will adopt it like they did with the last set of beta rules. And come December it is likely to be part of the next Chapter Approved. I'm hardly a power gamer who just spams the best unit to win at all cost. Hell, I started playing Guard in 7th. But GW's recent policy of nerfhammering entire lists into the ground gives me great concern. What I'm saying is, I'm just not sure I want to spend 200 bucks on something the may not be competitively viable anymore from one day to the next. And I only have till tomorrow to make a decision. Edited by H311fi5h, Today, 05:53 AM.
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Apr 19, 2018 01:22
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TTerrible posted:When people are saying "I can't use my Tau!!" they're treating it like 7th 40k. It actually might be that this is a 40k thread and not a 30k thread (I think there's one of those) so people don't really give a poo poo about that other game and they want to play their Tau (since that's an army in Warhammer 40k, which is a game that this thread is about).
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Apr 19, 2018 01:26
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Booley posted:
just lol if you think you could balance a dude on that. maybe if he was 6mm
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Apr 19, 2018 01:29
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NovemberMike posted:It actually might be that this is a 40k thread and not a 30k thread (I think there's one of those) so people don't really give a poo poo about that other game and they want to play their Tau (since that's an army in Warhammer 40k, which is a game that this thread is about). Great take. I guess if they didn't want to talk about 30k in the 40k thread they could not reply to me saying dumb poo poo about Tau in 30k in the 40k thread.
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Apr 19, 2018 01:32
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Ilor posted:Now we're loving talkin'! I can't wait to get WaT to the table! My hardcopy arrived yesterday. Can I bring a Russ
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Apr 19, 2018 01:33
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NovemberMike posted:Right, and what's the drawback? Limited firing arc (usually whatever they can see through the windows) and susceptibility to being pinned from behind. Also usually in a position separated from the rest of the army that makes them safe Deep Strike targets. Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Yeah man, gently caress those people who put all that time and money into their army and have no agency whatsoever when it comes to how rules change. I'm not saying "gently caress them", just that they might have a better time playing something whos shortcomings they enjoy compensating for. Luckily their models wont rot or whatever whole unused, and since the only army choice with severe role deficiency is Orks atm they dont even need to shelve their current army, just change up units.
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Apr 19, 2018 01:42
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NovemberMike posted:Is this actually going over your head or are you just being a warhammer player? The game is at its best when the actions you are taking feel reasonable. "My alien dudes are going to set those human soldiers on fire and burn them to death" technically describes a game action but it also fits the narrative tone of the game. A Berserker of Khorne looking at blue aliens standing on a three foot high ledge and whining at them to come down or at least give him some space on the ledge so he can fight doesn't really fit the tone of things. How do you think that guy is going to hit any models if theres physically no space dude. It's basic spatial awareness skills.
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Apr 19, 2018 01:43
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long-rear end nips Diane posted:Can I bring a Russ drat, I might try this. Russ and Predator vs Fire prisms would work really well
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Apr 19, 2018 01:43
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Yeah man, gently caress those people who put all that time and money into their army and have no agency whatsoever when it comes to how rules change. Maybe they should focus less on powergaming and just play to enjoy the game whatever the result instead of MUST WIN ABSOLUTELY
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Apr 19, 2018 01:45
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adamantium|wang posted:So I recently ordered 40 Scions. They are all still in their sealed boxes, I could send them back. Considering that notorious stuff like Poxwalkers and Hive Tyrants got 100% reasonable nerfs that didnt make them useless I wouldn't worry too much about Scions in general being useless. The FAQ rule does gimp Alpha Strikes, but if that's not your strategy you should be fine.
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Apr 19, 2018 01:45
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TTerrible posted:When people are saying "I can't use my Tau!!" they're treating it like 7th 40k. I don't get why "it doesn't support the faction/models/playstyle I like" is an invalid criticism of the game. And likening it to a game set in a completely different IP (e.g. you can't use your Tau in Warmachine either) is also disingenuous, because the two games largely share the same fluffiverse. This is doubly true of factions that would be present during the 30K era, such as the Eldar or Orks. Hell, even Mechanicus dudes inadvertantly waking up a Necron tomb-world would be thematically appropriate.
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Apr 19, 2018 01:48
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long-rear end nips Diane posted:Can I bring a Russ  You can. It would make a great proxy for a Matilda I or a Char B1!
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Apr 19, 2018 01:49
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Ilor posted:No... they're just saying they like Tau. ??? Is this a serious post lol
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Apr 19, 2018 01:52
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Ilor posted:
I'm genuinely surprised I've never seen a IG regiment done up like a French armored unit c. 1940, with Russes done up as Char B1s, and Chimeras/Hellhounds done up as AMX 38s and 40s.
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Apr 19, 2018 01:55
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Strobe posted:I'm genuinely surprised I've never seen a IG regiment done up like a French armored unit c. 1940, with Russes done up as Char B1s, and Chimeras/Hellhounds done up as AMX 38s and 40s. I’m guessing because nobody in their right mind likes that era of French tank.
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Apr 19, 2018 01:57
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ijyt posted:Is this a serious post lol It is not! (surely an inveterate shitposter such as yourself should recognize trolling)But at the same time it kinda is. You'd recognize it if you weren't so toxic. (see what I did there?)
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Apr 19, 2018 01:58
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Can I play the Megarachnids in 30k
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Apr 19, 2018 01:59
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long-rear end nips Diane posted:Can I play the Megarachnids in 30k M U R D E R U R D E R
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Apr 19, 2018 01:59
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Pendent posted:I’m guessing because nobody in their right mind likes that era of French tank. That era of French tanks is loving rad and, as a general take, they were superior to German tanks of the same period. Doctrinally though the French had no idea how to use them 
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Apr 19, 2018 02:04
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Endman posted:That era of French tanks is loving rad and, as a general take, they were superior to German tanks of the same period. Doctrinally though the French had no idea how to use them The effectiveness of German gear in WWII is generally wildly exaggerated but this doesn’t change the fact that those French tanks were just weird as hell. This is coming from someone who things the AMX-30 is one of the coolest post-war designs so it’s not like I hate the French or anything either. Fake edit: I don’t even feel bad about a slight derail because this thread got real bad today
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Apr 19, 2018 02:15
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Ilor posted:
Please don't backpedal it's embarrassing for everyone.
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Apr 19, 2018 02:18
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Pendent posted:The effectiveness of German gear in WWII is generally wildly exaggerated but this doesn’t change the fact that those French tanks were just weird as hell. This is coming from someone who things the AMX-30 is one of the coolest post-war designs so it’s not like I hate the French or anything either. The French tanks were weird, yeah, but they were definitely mechanically superior to their German counterparts. They were just doctrinally inferior by an order of magnitude, if not more. The Char B1 is such a magnificently Guard looking thing, it's practically a Russ with the main gun/sponson flipped.
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Apr 19, 2018 02:19
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Booley posted:That's not how it works. The model needs to be within 1", measured directly base to base, for the charge to succeed. To determine how far the charging unit with FLY can go, you ignore vertical distance. So if you're 4" away from a unit that's 3" up, it's a 4" charge, not the 7" charge that a unit without fly would need to make. They still need to get within 1" measured directly. Fair enough, I personally find that pretty weird when talking about units that can conceptually just fly up. Maybe if you were like, playing an apartment complex that would make sense, but an open-air ruin? Ehhh.
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Apr 19, 2018 02:20
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Strobe posted:The French tanks were weird, yeah, but they were definitely mechanically superior to their German counterparts. I’m not completely certain how real it was but World of Tanks has a BDR-G1B that looks exactly like a Leman Russ. You’re absolutely correct that the French managed to prove that it doesn’t matter how good your gear is if you don’t know how to use it. Conversely semi-mediocre tanks like the T-34 were incredibly effective mostly due to the way they were used.
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Apr 19, 2018 02:25
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Neurolimal posted:I'm not saying "gently caress them", just that they might have a better time playing something whos shortcomings they enjoy compensating for. Luckily their models wont rot or whatever whole unused, and since the only army choice with severe role deficiency is Orks atm they dont even need to shelve their current army, just change up units. "Just change up units" is exactly what I have a problem with. It's no different from telling someone they should change armies. If your rule system is so poorly designed that people who put money and time into creating something have to give it up then the problem isn't the people, it's the rule system. Maybe I'm just out of touch here, but it seems really unreasonable for a rule change to utterly deny a certain playing style from having any sort of agency. Not just put them at a disadvantage (which they already were), but explicitly ensure that a particular unit has no hope whatsoever of affecting one that they could have affected before the change was made. It's an artificial constraint that adversely impacts a style of play that's already at a disadvantage, provides no significant impact to the style of play that benefits from the change, and personally I don't think telling people to play something else is a reasonable solution.
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Apr 19, 2018 02:28
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brb adding 1" steps to all my terrain
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Apr 19, 2018 02:39
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End this shitposting by posting your toys.
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Apr 19, 2018 02:39
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I like 30k because I can use the models in 40k.
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Apr 19, 2018 02:42
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panascope posted:End this shitposting by posting your toys. 
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Apr 19, 2018 02:44
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