|
Qwijib0 posted:also got my invite today. Same. Not paying 49K though. Hope the SR comes out before the end of the year.
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 06:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 00:40 |
|
|
Agronox posted:I don’t think it ever actually came out why Mobileye cut Tesla off, but that’s the rumor, yeah. I think it went something like hey Tesla don't call it and sell it as autopilot we are not to that point. Tesla, don't tell us how to market. Mobileye, we might have to stop supplying you. Tesla, you are fired.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 12:44
|
|
|
Elephanthead posted:I think it went something like hey Tesla don't call it and sell it as autopilot we are not to that point. Tesla, don't tell us how to market. Mobileye, we might have to stop supplying you. Tesla, you are fired. Would love to read more about this if you have a reference. I've never been able to sort it out.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 12:53
|
|
|
Agronox posted:I don’t think it ever actually came out why Mobileye cut Tesla off, but that’s the rumor, yeah. It’s not a rumor, Mobileye explicitly came out and said that’s why. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/09/tesla-dropped-by-mobileye-for-pushing-the-envelope-in-terms-of-safety/
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 13:37
|
|
|
drgitlin posted:It’s not a rumor, Mobileye explicitly came out and said that’s why. Seems reasonable for Mobileye to worry about liability in Autopilot-fucks-up cases.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 13:38
|
|
|
Am I the only grumpy-old-man-who-yells-at-clouds who just wants an EV that's a car. Fine, let me not crash into the guy in front of me and you get to beep if I depart a lane, but give me full control and real buttons, thanks.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 13:41
|
|
|
bolind posted:Am I the only grumpy-old-man-who-yells-at-clouds who just wants an EV that's a car. Fine, let me not crash into the guy in front of me and you get to beep if I depart a lane, but give me full control and real buttons, thanks. Nope. I just want one with enough range to get me to work and home at less than double the price of its ICE counterpart.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 15:13
|
|
|
Please fewer touchscreens. I just want to listen to NPR and turn the knob from hot to cold.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 15:30
|
|
|
Speleothing posted:Please fewer touchscreens. I just want to listen to NPR and turn the knob from hot to cold. By fewer, you mean zero I believe. Touch screens which offer no tactile feedback have no place in an automobile where I should be paying attention to where I am going and controlling my 4000lb mass of metal and plastic instead of trying to navigate myself through a menu to find my favorite song to play.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 16:32
|
|
|
drgitlin posted:It’s not a rumor, Mobileye explicitly came out and said that’s why. Jesus. Amazing that Tesla’s counsel was okay with continuing to sell it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 17:06
|
|
|
Agronox posted:Jesus. Amazing that Tesla’s counsel was okay with continuing to sell it. Elon got too hasty, fired all the human lawyers, and tried to replace them with in house A.I. counsel. Legal will be closed a few days while they restructure.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 17:08
|
|
|
So, I've had a couple days to drive the 3, including a normal commute to and from work, and a ~45mi drive through the worst of Miami rush-hour traffic, and in light traffic, but letting autopilot deal with considerable road construction. (Southbound from Griffin road on I75 to the turnpike, exit 13 at 1730, return starting at 2200.) A bit of backround, so you understand where I'm coming from. My previous DD was a 2013 Volt, which I've spoke about here, and still really think very highly of. Before that, a 2006 6spd GTO, a 1996 Caprice 9C1, a 1994 S10, a 1998 6spd Z/28, a 1994 auto Z/28, a 1986 Camaro, and a 1985 Caprice Classic. I also owned a heavily modded 2008 Corvette Z06 until very recently. I have a couple huge BMW-nerd friends, so I've also driven E30s, E24 M6s, E46 M3s, E39 M5s, E60 M5s, E92 M3s, E92 3s, a W204 C63AMG, tube-frame race E30s, back-halved "street" Camaros, bolt-on Mustangs, Stock Camaros and Corvettes of every stripe, a 2017 CTS-V, Buick GNs and TTypes, a Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale clone, and a 1982 Chevrolet G-series conversion van with a stripped interior and a 700hp nitrous smallblock and turbo 400. My seat time in Japanese cars is very limited, however. I'm not a race car driver, and I don't get seat time like a car journalist, but I've driven a good deal of really impressive cars, so I'm not giving a review from the perspective of what seems like most Tesla owners "IT'S SO MUCH BETTER THAN THE 1996 CAVALIER I USED TO HAVE BUT WHY DOES IT RIDE SO ROUGH WAAAAAAH." My Model 3 is configured with the 75kWh battery, Premium upgrades, EAP, 19in wheels w/235/40R19 Continental ProContact RXes, and Midnight Silver Metallic paint. First, I'll talk about the things that annoy me. A: The battery pack extends forward to approximately the same place as the middle of your calf when you have your feet on the pedals. The driver and pax footwells are depressed forward of the battery for comfort and normal ergonomics. However, if you bend your knee and rest the side of your foot on the floor as I routinely do, your foot will end up on top of the pack which is a good 3 or 4 inches higher than the floor at the pedal box. It's not uncomfortable, but it is odd. B: The visibility from about 4 to 8 o'clock is marginal. This is becoming a normal thing in cars as C/Ds go higher, but even the view out the rear-view mirror has an extremely high sight-line over the trunk bustle. You could easily tailgate one of these with a Miata and the driver would never know you're there unless they turned the rearview camera on. C: There is no manual cutoff for the ECC or autopilot. The only way I've found to turn them off is to either apply brake pedal pressure, or by manually applying steering wheel pressure past a threshold. However, combined with the (surprisingly) precise steering, it always results in a very slightly unpleasant jog towards the direction of input. A knock-it-off function on the stalk would be really great. D: The brake pedal is loud.  That is, when you use the brake pedal to knock ECC or autopilot offline without actually applying any brake pressure, there is a noticeable thunk as the pedal returns to full-up. In a louder car, this wouldn't be a big deal. Here, it could use a softer return bumper.E: The UMC adaptor bag has a velcro patch on the bottom to keep it from sliding around in the trunk. If you actually put it on the carpeted floor of the trunk, it rips the aboslute hell out of the carpet fibers. It's SUPER sticky. Too sticky. It's a big enough issue that the delivery rep warned against it, and recommended never putting it velcro-side-down. F: There doesn't seem to be a hand-hold or grabber on the inside of the trunk to close it with, which means you have to put hand-to-paint to get the thing closed. I don't wear rings or other jewelry, but I forsee the used market being full of Model 3s with resprayed trunk lids. G: There is no external release for the frunk. Either through the dash panel (which is very straightforward, and always at the front of the left portion of the display when the car is in park,) or through the app on your phone (which is extremely responsive, and fast, but does require a "Are you sure you want to remotely open your car?" confirmation. The frunk is small enough that you're not going to be using it a ton, and I understand the drag penalties that would come with an externally-accessible latch, but it's something a lot of people are going to be annoyed by. H: The glossy center console is every bit of a nightmare to keep clean as you would expect. It is STUNNING when it's clean, though. Think of the interior like owning a white car. Now let's talk about the things I like. A: The touch screen. There, I said it. Crucify me now. gently caress you: I'm dying on this hill. Everyone who has used it so far has given the screen itself huge thumbs up, because of how much better it is than the touch screens from other OEs. The functions are easy to find, for the most part, and reasonably intuitive. The thing to keep in mind is that I'm looking at this car as a complete package; I'm not looking at individual systems in isolation. The touch screen works, because you don't drive this car like you drive other cars. (Or at least, I don't think you should.) The whole experience is centered around EAP/ECC. In town driving, I find myself using ECC constantly, even more than I used cruise in my Volt, which was a LOT. ECC does full from-a-stop speed control, and is extremely good. Better than my friend's X5e with radar cruise. It senses cars joining the lane in time to slow down, and is in general just a really smooth tool. The only rough spot it has is when someone in front of you slows down for a right turn, it will nearly come to a stop unless you override it. This brings me to the rest of my point: EAP and ECC both function as aids to an alert driver, and actually ENHANCE my situational awareness. I no longer find myself distracted by the dipshit in front of me who has his speed set to 20-90mph, and can instead be looking farther ahead and to the sides, more often. The recent software upgrades have added speed control and following-distance control to the right thumb control, removing the original concern of those functions being buried in the touchscreen. EAP is great on the highway, but still has problems with exits and temporary lane markings. All of it as a package makes for an INCREDIBLY calming driving experience. You can operate the car instead of having to focus on driving the car. That said, you can turn all that poo poo off, and drive it as well. It doesn't force your hand, either way. I do feel that the car is intended to have Autopilot, though. Ordering it without is going to be a different experience. (This is also where I laugh at the idea of Tesla pulling off L4 autonomy with the current hardware package. I simply cannot see it.) All of that said, 90% of people who buy one of these are going to try to turn it on and do their taxes behind the wheel. That's because people in general are loving stupid, not because Tesla wants to see pedestrian blood. EAP is amazing, and you can pry it from my cold, dead hands. B: The interior. This is what has gotten the most comments thus far. Everyone that I've shown the car to likes it, even the not-car-people, though they are less enthusiastic in their comments on it. The interior is also quiet like a grave. Under ~45mph there is almost no noise at all, and up to about 85, there's only mild wind noise. It's more than you'd expect, and I've seen a couple people put decibel meters in them and they're apparently slightly louder than the competition, but it's still a very quiet interior. The lack of powertrain vibration probably plays a part in not only highlighting the wind noise, but also making you focus in on it. C: The visibility from shoulder to shoulder forwards is amazing. The dash and doorlines are lower than almost anything else modern that I've driven, and the glass roof is simply stunning. The windshield and roof glass get a UV coating and tint that actually seem sufficient for the solar-hellhole that I inhabit, but the window glass needs some tint. In habitats that don't share a zip code with THE SURFACE OF THE GODDAMNED SUN, you probably won't have to tint a thing. D: This car is way more competent in handling, chassis dynamics, and acceleration than I was honestly expecting. 271hp and 310lbft (or whatever; Comparing a single-gear electric motor to an ICE is not apples to apples,) mean you're not going to mistake it for a BMW M, AMG, or V car, or a real sports car, but it is absolutely competitive with standard BMW and Mercedes 3/4/C classes. The steering is communicative, though not overly so (probably its weakest point, when you start to really push it,) and It's nearly dead-neutral through corners, but will happily get pushy if you're not careful with the entry. Steering is very precise and linear, and the car turns in like an excited puppy. Too much steering input can cause some push, and unfortunately the stability control is too intrusive to allow throttle to be used to kick the tail around, even though the power is clearly available. I'm interested to see what the P version brings to the table, both in terms of power, and handling, but particularly different modes to the stability control. Driving on the street, the power is 125% enough to put a big goddamn dumb smile on your face, and the handling is awesome, but it would fall on its face at a real track event. I'm curious what will happen when someone that knows what they're doing actually puts good tires on it. E: Charging. When you get home, you walk over, grab the cord, turn around, press the button on the cord and the charge port opens, and you plug it in. When you take the cord out and hang it up, you just walk over and get in the car and the door closes. My loving Volt was the last year of the remote-release to the charge port door, and I cannot count the number of times I would be driving along and get a "Charge Door Open" alert, because not only was there a release for the charge port on the keyfob, it wasn't disabled when the loving thing is in drive, and it would get pushed in my pocket. Little things count, and Tesla got this completely right. It works just like you'd think it should work. TLDR: This car takes away all the bullshit that you don't need to actually get in the car and drive. You walk up, open the door, put it in gear, and go. It's amazing in every way, and if they can actually build these for $35,000 with the SR battery, they are going to sell a LOT of loving cars. (Insert production-line problem joke here.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 17:14
|
|
|
C: hit the shifter up one click, it disables autopilot. Took me a minute to figure it out too.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 17:17
|
|
|
Nice write-up!silicone thrills posted:C: hit the shifter up one click, it disables autopilot. Glad this is a thing. You can disable AP on the Model S stalk, so figures you can on the Model 3 as well.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 17:21
|
|
|
silicone thrills posted:C: hit the shifter up one click, it disables autopilot. Driving garbage cars for so long makes me not want to nudge shifters towards reverse at 80. Thanks.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 17:24
|
|
|
Speleothing posted:Please fewer touchscreens. I just want to listen to NPR and turn the knob from hot to cold. Should be a three position switch. Max heat/max cold/off.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 17:25
|
|
|
MrYenko posted:Driving garbage cars for so long makes me not want to nudge shifters towards reverse at 80. If you accidentally do it twice it puts you into neutral which is kind of unnerving but doesn't seem to hurt anything except wondering why you're slowing down. Popped it back into drive no prob though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 17:31
|
|
|
thanks for the write up!MrYenko posted:F: There doesn't seem to be a hand-hold or grabber on the inside of the trunk to close it with, which means you have to put hand-to-paint to get the thing closed. I don't wear rings or other jewelry, but I forsee the used market being full of Model 3s with resprayed trunk lids. stuff like this is just infuriating to me, how do you gently caress this up?
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 17:44
|
|
|
Great write up, thanks for taking the time to do it!
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 17:47
|
|
|
MrYenko posted:A: The touch screen. There, I said it. Crucify me now. gently caress you: I'm dying on this hill. Do you need a computer operating assistant in the car with you to redirect the AC from blowing in your eyes? "Help, my eyes hurt. Could you operate the touch screen while I carefully avoid running over dozens of children?" "Sure, you want the air up, down, left, or right?" "Down 3 degrees please." "Down 3 degrees check! *tap tap tap* How's that?" "Now it's blowing on my hands and I'm losing sensation in my fingers, could you execute a horizontal bifurcation maneuver at positive 5.72 degrees stat?" "Bifurcation positive 5.72 degrees check! *tap tap tap* Confirm!" "Air conditioning turbine direction is nominal, driving progress proceeds. Manual digits returning to function!" "Glad to help!" I've driven cars where just the AC vent settings were on the touch screen and I hated it. Me and my SO just immediately went "LOL NO" when we saw the interior of the 3, wondering if it's as bad as it looks.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 18:02
|
|
|
MrYenko posted:My loving Volt was the last year of the remote-release to the charge port door, and I cannot count the number of times I would be driving along and get a "Charge Door Open" alert, because not only was there a release for the charge port on the keyfob, it wasn't disabled when the loving thing is in drive, and it would get pushed in my pocket. Little things count, and Tesla got this completely right. It works just like you'd think it should work. Wait.... The Volt had remote/powered charge port door at some point?! The Gen2 definitely doesn't. It's all manual. Even after owning the car for nearly 2 years, I STILL forget to close the drat charge port constantly. Go to back out of the garage... "DING DING DING CHARGE PORT DOOR OPEN!" Have to stop, climb outta the car and close it back. I did it just this morning leaving for work, for only like the 150th time.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 18:05
|
|
|
The Locator posted:By fewer, you mean zero I believe. Touch screens which offer no tactile feedback have no place in an automobile where I should be paying attention to where I am going and controlling my 4000lb mass of metal and plastic instead of trying to navigate myself through a menu to find my favorite song to play. Touch screens are great for the dozens of features you rarely if ever need to change and basically never need to interact with while driving. It's really nice that I can do things like configure my hill start assist from the touch screen rather than having to use third party "coding" tools, take it to a dealer, or just not be able to adjust it at all. Touch screens are terrible for anything you actually need to interact with while driving. The primary controls for lighting, infotainment, HVAC, seats, etc. should always be physical. Basically if you think about the controls a mid-range '90s car would have basically all of those things should still be operable by physical controls that are large enough to use with gloves on. Advanced options like interior lighting color, audio EQ, etc. can be tossed in to menus on the touch screen, but the stuff I'm likely to be fiddling with while moving needs to be able to be operated "blind".
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 18:30
|
|
|
MrYenko posted:So, I've had a couple days to drive the 3, including a normal commute to and from work, and a ~45mi drive through the worst of Miami rush-hour traffic, and in light traffic, ... My GF has gotten to sit and ride in one (I haven't, but she's the one who works for Tesla, so humbug) and came home gushing and asking when she can buy one.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 18:31
|
|
|
Tyrgle posted:Do you need a computer operating assistant in the car with you to redirect the AC from blowing in your eyes? To be fair, I'm the kind of guy that rarely if ever adjust vents after I get them where I want them. I just set the auto mode on the HVAC to the temp I want, and almost never touch it again. I do adjust the temperature, but that's static at the bottom of the page, and available in all menus. My volt had a touchscreen, but HVAC functions were... Touch keys on the surface of the dash underneath the touchscreen. The Gen2 volt has normal physical HVAC controls, lifted from the GM parts bin. stevewm posted:Wait.... The Volt had remote/powered charge port door at some point?! On 2011-2013 it was spring-loaded open, with an electric release with a button on the driver door, and a button on the keyfob. It was apparently such a warranty headache that they made it manual. ilkhan posted:Sounds like most other reviews. I sooo want a P version... I don't know that I'm going to want to buy one, but I'm very interested in what direction they take the performance models, going forwards.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 18:37
|
|
|
The Locator posted:By fewer, you mean zero I believe. Touch screens which offer no tactile feedback have no place in an automobile How do you propose to enter a destination in the nav system? Voice and spell it out? A little Blackberry-esque keyboard?
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 19:20
|
|
|
Subjunctive posted:How do you propose to enter a destination in the nav system? Voice and spell it out? A little Blackberry-esque keyboard? That actually brings up another point. Tesla’s voice recognition is really, really good. Better than Siri, which may be microphone limited, and better than Alexa. It’s yet to screw up a command or search, which I find amazing. Edit: Tesla, or whoever they have it subcontracted to. (Google? I have no idea.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 19:24
|
|
|
MrYenko posted:That actually brings up another point. Tesla’s voice recognition is really, really good. Better than Siri, which may be microphone limited, and better than Alexa. I agree with this. I just started a job in a new area not so long ago and I needed to stop at a grocery store. Get in car "drive to safeway" and it picked the closest one and routed me there. And they just put the autopilot/cruise control speed adjustments on the right wheel roller so that's even better now.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 19:46
|
|
|
Good writeup! Thanks for sharing your perspective.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 19:47
|
|
|
Subjunctive posted:How do you propose to enter a destination in the nav system? Voice and spell it out? A little Blackberry-esque keyboard? I have never owned a car with a nav system, and if buying new, I never will. They want far too much money for something that is already on the phone 99% of anyone buying a new car has with them anyway. There should be bluetooth connectivity so you can listen to your phones navigation on your car speakers if you want. Having said that, as a previous poster mentioned, I suppose touch screens are fine for things that you do not normally interact with while actually driving. This should be true of navigation, you shouldn't be trying to input a destination while driving. MrYenko posted:The whole experience is centered around EAP/ECC. In town driving, I find myself using ECC constantly, even more than I used cruise in my Volt, which was a LOT. ECC does full from-a-stop speed control, and is extremely good. Better than my friend's X5e with radar cruise. It senses cars joining the lane in time to slow down, and is in general just a really smooth tool. The only rough spot it has is when someone in front of you slows down for a right turn, it will nearly come to a stop unless you override it. This brings me to the rest of my point: EAP and ECC both function as aids to an alert driver, and actually ENHANCE my situational awareness. I no longer find myself distracted by the dipshit in front of me who has his speed set to 20-90mph, and can instead be looking farther ahead and to the sides, more often. The recent software upgrades have added speed control and following-distance control to the right thumb control, removing the original concern of those functions being buried in the touchscreen How does it handle follow distance in varying stop & go traffic conditions? For example on my commute it's fairly common to go for a mile while creeping along 5' from the guy in front of me, but then once in a while there is a short gap where we'll accelerate up to 30-50mph before once again slowing to a stop/crawl. Does the Tesla system adjust follow distance appropriately without you messing with it in that sort of a driving scenario?
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 19:52
|
|
|
The Locator posted:By fewer, you mean zero I believe. Touch screens which offer no tactile feedback have no place in an automobile where I should be paying attention to where I am going and controlling my 4000lb mass of metal and plastic instead of trying to navigate myself through a menu to find my favorite song to play. I don’t disagree, but it’s also very rare that there aren’t physical controls to accomplish the same thing in the UI.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 20:37
|
|
|
MrYenko posted:That said, I wish there were more detailed settings for it, IE maximum acceleration. It really gives it some beans when it sees clear road ahead... Just installed 2018.14.13, adds a new acceleration setting called “Chill.” Reduces max acceleration under ECC/EAP.
MrYenko fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Apr 20, 2018 |
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 20:42
|
|
|
Powershift posted:Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what consumers want. The only reasonable conclusion is that all Americans believe they must, at a moment's notice, be able to take a 300-mile road trip over mountain passages with an entire Boy Scout troop in tow.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 21:08
|
|
|
Roadie posted:The only reasonable conclusion is that all Americans believe they must, at a moment's notice, be able to take a 300-mile road trip over mountain passages with an entire Boy Scout troop in tow. They want that, and their cars to have real buttons with tactile feel and traditional gauge clusters. Like this luxury Cadillac's pictured below. Truly the market has spoken. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 21:27
|
|
|
Subjunctive posted:How do you propose to enter a destination in the nav system? Voice and spell it out? A little Blackberry-esque keyboard? A knob that rotates between food, booze, and home. Google maps has a send to car button.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 21:43
|
|
|
Elephanthead posted:A knob that rotates between food, booze, and home. yeahhh i hate trying to get my phone to sync with my car in terms of maps. Like, I had to try with a rental a couple months back and I eventually just gave up and turned up my media volume all the way. Also watching my friends with phones who try to dick with their destination in the middle of the freeway going 80 is ... harrowing. Happy to yell at my car to take me places. I feel like i'm able to keep my eyes on the road and safely adjust things rather than blindly groping for knobs and buttons like I used to do on my previous cars.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 21:48
|
|
|
Android Auto/Apple Carplay should be standard. I'd add it to my spark if I could keep my power charts and AC display.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 21:50
|
|
|
The i3 doesnt succumb to ipaditis. I feel like, in general, the luxury car market will hang on to knobs and buttons. Audi and BMW seem happy with their jogwheels.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 22:11
|
|
|
Having the next steps visible on the console is way better than hoping Google Maps alerts you in time that you need to get over a few lanes in traffic. gmaps provides better routes than the car's nav, but I still use the nav because of the much better UI.Elephanthead posted:Google maps has a send to car button. Google maps doesn't know about charging stops.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 22:14
|
|
|
FilthyImp posted:The i3 doesnt succumb to ipaditis. BMW added a touch screen to the latest iDrive. It adds like zero functionality to the system besides a qwerty keyboard option in addition to voice, handwriting recognition and predictive text with the jog wheel and the entire interface is built around being controlled with a jog wheel so I don't know why they did it besides the fact that they could say they have a touch screen now.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 22:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 00:40 |
|
|
MrYenko posted:My loving Volt was the last year of the remote-release to the charge port door, and I cannot count the number of times I would be driving along and get a "Charge Door Open" alert, because not only was there a release for the charge port on the keyfob, it wasn't disabled when the loving thing is in drive, and it would get pushed in my pocket. For what it's worth I just tested this in my 2013, and it works like you expected it to. Neither the fob, nor the button on the door open up the charge door while the vehicle is in motion. As soon as it's in park, the buttons work again. #NotAllVolts
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2018 23:55
|
|