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Horseshoe theory posted:Alternatively, all politicians are irrebutably opportunistic liars who cannot be trusted by virtue of their political aspirations. The way people are arguing about their chosen political camp and the virtues within while getting mad whenever the negatives are brought up is exactly the same as the classic console wars of sega versus nintendo when both were on parity. It's shrieking, outrage and essay length rants all the way. Each person thinking they're changing the world when all they really accomplish is pissing into the wind while doing a handstand. Partisan political activism: It's basically console wars.
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Apr 21, 2018 15:59
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https://twitter.com/Ruleyork/status/920139200791547904
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Apr 21, 2018 16:05
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https://twitter.com/getfiscal/status/987480640659574784?s=21
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Apr 21, 2018 18:31
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just saw Tim Faust speaking here in Houston for our m4a and city paid sick leave event. i was surprised by the number of people who turned out, easily 100+ people. i hadn't expected to be so moved by his speech. i lost two parents to our poo poo healthcare system and seeing people this empassioned to change it brought a tear to my eye.
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Apr 21, 2018 21:22
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Getright downlo posted:just saw Tim Faust speaking here in Houston for our m4a and city paid sick leave event. i was surprised by the number of people who turned out, easily 100+ people. i hadn't expected to be so moved by his speech. i lost two parents to our poo poo healthcare system and seeing people this empassioned to change it brought a tear to my eye. That's good. 
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Apr 21, 2018 21:29
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Ace of Baes posted:Im excited for Twitter to explode when ebdsa ppl win their reelection
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Apr 21, 2018 22:13
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Shiroc posted:Seattle voted out our extremely online East Bay aligned leadership, so they all threw tantrums, rage quit and dropped everything on the floor instead of doing the transition that their own bylaws called for. All they do now is endlessly subtweet us about how everything is liberalism. What is the culture difference between the East Bay an the other DSA chapters?
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Apr 21, 2018 22:25
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Getright downlo posted:just saw Tim Faust speaking here in Houston for our m4a and city paid sick leave event. i was surprised by the number of people who turned out, easily 100+ people. i hadn't expected to be so moved by his speech. i lost two parents to our poo poo healthcare system and seeing people this empassioned to change it brought a tear to my eye. Hell yeah. Thanks for coming! The turnout was pretty good! I think the count I heard was close to 150
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Apr 21, 2018 23:07
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https://mobile.twitter.com/MetroATLDSA/status/987818162984046592
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Apr 21, 2018 23:25
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Grammar-Bolshevik posted:What is the culture difference between the East Bay an the other DSA chapters? The same cultural difference between the east bay and the rest of america
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Apr 22, 2018 00:05
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donate to my brand new Process Respecter Caucus, where i loudly chastise comrades by letting them know that anti-mask laws were used to take down the klan and are actually a good thing
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Apr 22, 2018 01:51
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Donating to get people bailed out who were arrested for protesting Nazis is good tho
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Apr 22, 2018 01:57
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Business Gorillas posted:donate to my brand new Process Respecter Caucus, where i loudly chastise comrades by letting them know that anti-mask laws were used to take down the klan and are actually a good thing About half the people arrested were arrested for wearing masks. The other half for jaywalking (in streets that were closed off to traffic). At least of the cases that I heard about.
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Apr 22, 2018 02:23
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apropos to nothing posted:ultimately I think this is an ideological difference that I have with most everyone itt, but I dont think its just pearl clutching. the very recent failures of syriza and podemos really clearly demonstrate that yes, socialists and leftist parties can win mass support and come to power in very short order, however if they don't have firm principles and a real commitment to following through with their revolutionary slogans and program, then theyll just reinforce the capitalist system and end up selling out their constituents. 
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Apr 22, 2018 02:45
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Grammar-Bolshevik posted:What is the culture difference between the East Bay an the other DSA chapters? It's a few things, but EBDSA represents the extreme end of the centralism/horizontalism and electoral/non-electoral organizing axes that are a point of tension for many chapters. They're entirely centralized, with substantially all of the decision making power in the chapter controlled by a small group of elected officers who are not especially accountable to the membership between elections. This group has chosen to focus the chapter entirely on electoral work, specifically M4A and even more narrowly on canvasing as a tactic. While you CAN form caucuses that try to do other things, these caucuses have no institutional standing or power and the chapter will in fact make it hard for you to organize by denying you access to basic resources if the leadership doesn't approve of what you're doing. (When we were organizing brake light clinics, for example, they wouldn't let us send an email to EBDSA's email list to publicize them and recruit volunteers) The contrast is made a lot more stark because EBDSA's surrounding chapters are on the opposite end of this spectrum - North Bay is an anarchist chapter with non-standard bylaws based on radical decentralization, and DSA SF is a fairly horizontal org where most decision making power is held by committees and any member is free to start any committee they want without prior approval provided they can get the votes from the general body.
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Apr 22, 2018 02:56
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Getright downlo posted:just saw Tim Faust speaking here in Houston for our m4a and city paid sick leave event. i was surprised by the number of people who turned out, easily 100+ people. i hadn't expected to be so moved by his speech. i lost two parents to our poo poo healthcare system and seeing people this empassioned to change it brought a tear to my eye. it was very good
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Apr 22, 2018 03:05
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houston dsa let’s keep drinking
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Apr 22, 2018 03:05
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Baby Babbeh posted:It's a few things, but EBDSA represents the extreme end of the centralism/horizontalism and electoral/non-electoral organizing axes that are a point of tension for many chapters. They're entirely centralized, with substantially all of the decision making power in the chapter controlled by a small group of elected officers who are not especially accountable to the membership between elections. This group has chosen to focus the chapter entirely on electoral work, specifically M4A and even more narrowly on canvasing as a tactic. While you CAN form caucuses that try to do other things, these caucuses have no institutional standing or power and the chapter will in fact make it hard for you to organize by denying you access to basic resources if the leadership doesn't approve of what you're doing. (When we were organizing brake light clinics, for example, they wouldn't let us send an email to EBDSA's email list to publicize them and recruit volunteers) Thanks for taking the time to write this.
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Apr 22, 2018 04:08
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So when people say they are for prison abolition, what does that entail exactly? Like in a society with abolished prisons, what would happen to someone who commits murder, or who rapes someone, or who commits large-scale fraud? e: this post is not intended to imply that those crimes are equal, nor that all people who commit those crimes go to prison in our society VikingofRock has issued a correction as of 04:32 on Apr 22, 2018 |
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Apr 22, 2018 04:28
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VikingofRock posted:So when people say they are for prison abolition, what does that entail exactly? Like in a society with abolished prisons, what would happen to someone who commits murder, or who rapes someone, or who commits large-scale fraud? http://www.morningsidecenter.org/teachable-moment/lessons/prison-abolition-and-restorative-justice
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Apr 22, 2018 04:34
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https://mobile.twitter.com/vlenin_1917/status/820692407771680772?lang=en
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Apr 22, 2018 04:34
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Ace of Baes posted:http://www.morningsidecenter.org/teachable-moment/lessons/prison-abolition-and-restorative-justice So unless I'm missing something (and I might be), it looks like the linked articles are saying that restorative justice is rarely used for serious or violent crimes, and the other articles I've found seem to say the same thing. So I'm still not sure what would happen in those cases in a society without prisons. I'm 100% open to the idea abolishing prisons, and I really like the idea of restorative justice and rehabilitation, but I'm trying to understand what that would actually look like on a practical level.
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Apr 22, 2018 04:57
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If we get rid of prisons where are we gonna put the cops and capitalists after the revolution
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Apr 22, 2018 05:09
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VikingofRock posted:So unless I'm missing something (and I might be), it looks like the linked articles are saying that restorative justice is rarely used for serious or violent crimes, and the other articles I've found seem to say the same thing. So I'm still not sure what would happen in those cases in a society without prisons. Imo, prisons should be used for the worst of the worst, for people who have committed especially heinous crimes and/or cannot be rehabilitated.
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Apr 22, 2018 05:20
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Guillotines and then walk-in freezers.
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Apr 22, 2018 05:20
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Atrocious Joe posted:If we get rid of prisons where are we gonna put the cops and capitalists after the revolution The ground
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Apr 22, 2018 05:20
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prisons and police have their foundations solidly in upholding slavery so abolishing the current structures and seeing what the most efficient restorative justice methods come around Just Makes Sense. that's also why "reform prisons" is dogshit because the whole industry is built on the most grotesque garbage principles and operations.
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Apr 22, 2018 05:24
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rudecyrus posted:Imo, prisons should be used for the worst of the worst, for people who have committed especially heinous crimes and/or cannot be rehabilitated. All shitposting aside, I would prefer fortified mental health facilities that even in the most extreme and unlikely cases at least try to reform offenders. In a technical sense that probably qualifies as a prison, but that's also absolutely nothing like American prisons.
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Apr 22, 2018 05:26
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VikingofRock posted:So unless I'm missing something (and I might be), it looks like the linked articles are saying that restorative justice is rarely used for serious or violent crimes, and the other articles I've found seem to say the same thing. So I'm still not sure what would happen in those cases in a society without prisons. Nobody can talk about the practicalities of abolishing prisons because prison abolition basically hinges on believing that once we create a just society we will no longer need prisons except for those super extreme outlier people, who would probably be better served in (good) mental health facilities anyway. Nobody's really tried that at scale so you can't point to facts and go "this is how this will work" unless you're like extrapolating from data that people who are happy and taken care of don't do crimes. I liked the way that this article lays it out: http://thepolitic.org/more-than-reform-what-is-prison-abolition/ Practically, you support reforming current prison conditions and a move towards restorative justice, oppose the building of new prisons and anything else that expands the carceral state while you work to define and push for prison abolition in a way that doesn't sound insane to normies.
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Apr 22, 2018 05:27
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Vhak lord of hate posted:prisons and police have their foundations solidly in upholding slavery so abolishing the current structures and seeing what the most efficient restorative justice methods come around Just Makes Sense. that's also why "reform prisons" is dogshit because the whole industry is built on the most grotesque garbage principles and operations. if reforming prisons is good enough for jeremy gong and danny fetonte, then it should be good enough for you. 
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Apr 22, 2018 05:31
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Unbelievably Fat Man posted:All shitposting aside, I would prefer fortified mental health facilities that even in the most extreme and unlikely cases at least try to reform offenders. In a technical sense that probably qualifies as a prison, but that's also absolutely nothing like American prisons. Oh yeah, I couldn't agree more. American-style prisons should be abolished completely.
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Apr 22, 2018 05:41
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rudecyrus posted:Oh yeah, I couldn't agree more. American-style prisons should be abolished completely. That's deeply offensive to any culture founded on slave trade & labor. Stop being so culturally insensitive.  (am I doing this right? I don't quite get people who get outraged over cultural bullshit so I need to tune this)
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Apr 22, 2018 06:26
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VikingofRock posted:So unless I'm missing something (and I might be), it looks like the linked articles are saying that restorative justice is rarely used for serious or violent crimes, and the other articles I've found seem to say the same thing. So I'm still not sure what would happen in those cases in a society without prisons. basically we create a society where the 1 in 10,000 unhinged cannibals or whatever are in secured mental health facilities, people get pendantic about it and like to say "hurr isn't that a prison?", but we already have mental health wards, and we don't call them prisons, the idea is a system that is so radically different from the current Carceral state that it's the abolition of prisons, the prison industry, the Carceral state etc
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Apr 22, 2018 06:44
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https://twitter.com/hayesdavenport/status/987498397446815744 here’s a good twitter thread (sorry) about how actually doing stuff is what matters
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Apr 22, 2018 08:51
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ECQl8ufsHY&t=5306s
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Apr 22, 2018 09:18
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Getright downlo posted:just saw Tim Faust speaking here in Houston for our m4a and city paid sick leave event. i was surprised by the number of people who turned out, easily 100+ people. i hadn't expected to be so moved by his speech. i lost two parents to our poo poo healthcare system and seeing people this empassioned to change it brought a tear to my eye. I wanted to go but I ended up stuck about 100mi north for the day  glad to hear so many people showed up though
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Apr 22, 2018 10:23
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The thing that made prison and police abolition seem a lot less wild to me was really looking at how abysmally the current system actually functions in terms of keeping people safe and dispensing justice. Pretending that what we have is adequate to the task is way more pie in the sky. It's so rotten that it can't be carved into a good form.
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Apr 22, 2018 13:56
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lol https://twitter.com/mayfly/status/987796859451129857
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Apr 22, 2018 19:29
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Ace of Baes posted:basically we create a society where the 1 in 10,000 unhinged cannibals or whatever are in secured mental health facilities, people get pendantic about it and like to say "hurr isn't that a prison?", but we already have mental health wards, and we don't call them prisons, the idea is a system that is so radically different from the current Carceral state that it's the abolition of prisons, the prison industry, the Carceral state etc Prrrretty much. Similarly with police abolishment - even in glorious Ancomtopia there'll be a need for say, detectives to hunt down serial killers or whatever. But whatever system we end up with would look a lot different than the modern day slave patrol legacy system we've got now.
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Apr 22, 2018 19:52
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Gong wrote a medium piece about the whole thing and I hate to break it to you guys "Everyone who dug through our private documents and shared them on the internet in order to harm our political project has demonstrated their commitment to creating a toxic, paranoid, and disempowering atmosphere in DSA." Hope all of you wreckers enjoy making the DSA worse by sharing the bad poo poo I said
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Apr 22, 2018 20:48
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