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Halloween Jack posted:Say, whose fault is it that they lost the plot with Sentry and made him unironically the best at everything and everybody's best friend forever? Was it Bendis? I'm pretty sure Jenkins wrote all of that stuff. Bendis brought him in and then barely used him until Dark Reign.
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Apr 23, 2018 22:11
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I won't disagree that Englehart liked Mantis way, way too much—but the way he shoved her into every book he wrote after creating her isn't quite the radical oddity that people sometimes imply. Dude could not let go of a dangling plot point, or a character for whom he wanted to finish an arc. It's Basic Englehart Practice to keep pulling her from book to book until he finished his Celestial Madonna garbage, or brought the character to some comparable closure. Doing that even as he moved from Marvel to DC to his indie work, well, Ok, that's a new level of Englehart.
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Apr 23, 2018 22:18
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Halloween Jack posted:Say, whose fault is it that they lost the plot with Sentry and made him unironically the best at everything and everybody's best friend forever? Was it Bendis? That was the character as originally intended.
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Apr 23, 2018 22:30
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More of a weird Hulk moment, but when he "kills" Hulk in Infinity Gauntlet, Thanos actually just shrank him and sent him back to Earth. Then he had to navigate a sewer and fight some giant rats Pickle Rick style
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Apr 23, 2018 22:32
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Squizzle posted:I won't disagree that Englehart liked Mantis way, way too much—but the way he shoved her into every book he wrote after creating her isn't quite the radical oddity that people sometimes imply. Dude could not let go of a dangling plot point, or a character for whom he wanted to finish an arc. It's Basic Englehart Practice to keep pulling her from book to book until he finished his Celestial Madonna garbage, or brought the character to some comparable closure. And to be fair, it's not like Englehart is the only guy to take a character or a concept with him from book to book - Fabian Niciesza (or however you spell the dude's last name) used to do it with background characters and fictional nations and such that no one else ever bothered to pick up on, so he started half-jokingly referring to the "Nicieszaverse" as the place where all the supporting cast that no one else seemed to use lived. It's pretty common practice for a writer to come up with an idea that no one else wants to touch (because they're busy with their ideas), and so instead of letting the idea just sit there not doing anything they just bring it with them to the next book. Englehart, of course, took it to a Whole 'Nother Level.
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Apr 23, 2018 22:34
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Madkal posted:Well this opens a question for the question thread? Who are some original characters that are creators favourites? I mean who take their character to an absurd degree of favoritism. 
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Apr 23, 2018 22:39
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Gavok posted:Anything else that comes to mind? Thanos being the nice guy who helped Mar-vell accept his impending demise in Death of Captain Marvel is definitely a weird moment for people mostly familiar with the character through the movies and more recent comics. It might have been a hallucination, it's purposely ambiguous imo but I think it still counts regardless Gavok posted:It's hard, since he's been 80% written by Starlin, who thinks Thanos is the most serious of business. I dunno those OGNs he was doing before he got mad had a sense of humor, I just think he's really attached to the character like how Gerber was attached to Howard the Duck and saw him as representative of his struggles against the work for hire system (as mentioned above) Halloween Jack posted:Say, whose fault is it that they lost the plot with Sentry and made him unironically the best at everything and everybody's best friend forever? Was it Bendis? I'd say that angle was done reasonably well in the original miniseries, the real nadir was Fallen Sun when Rogue revealed the first person she slept with was the Sentry and that was Jenkins himself. Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Apr 23, 2018 |
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Apr 23, 2018 22:49
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I know it was referenced a looooooooooooooong time ago, but wasn't there some character created by a writer for Avengers and Justice League or something, and when he was kicked off writing the book for his last issue he killed the character so no-one else could write said character? Like killed off in such a way that that character was never ever going to come back again.
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Apr 23, 2018 22:54
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Is farmer Thanos that new? I had a really bad comic from '95 called Lunatik that featured the Thanos scarecrow.
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Apr 23, 2018 22:56
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Unmature posted:More of a weird Hulk moment, but when he "kills" Hulk in Infinity Gauntlet, Thanos actually just shrank him and sent him back to Earth. Then he had to navigate a sewer and fight some giant rats Pickle Rick style Also he was wearing some of those high-collared tights like Deadman/Iron Fist still tool around in (purple of course), at his Grey level of intelligence and eloquence (though at this point I think he was supposed to be as strong as he always is when he's green but with Banner's intelligence). Dr. Strange plucks him out of a bar of all places, and he has a bonding moment on the roof of Avengers HQ with Wolverine.
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Apr 23, 2018 23:11
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I know Wolverine's first appearance was in The Hulk, but have they interacted a lot since then? I've read most of Claremont's X stuff and I don't remember Hulk ever showing up.
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Apr 23, 2018 23:15
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Skwirl posted:I know Wolverine's first appearance was in The Hulk, but have they interacted a lot since then? I've read most of Claremont's X stuff and I don't remember Hulk ever showing up. It's one of those things where they hate each other but don't really tussle. I think the Ultimate mini is the biggest fight they'ver ever had.
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Apr 23, 2018 23:16
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Madkal posted:Well this opens a question for the question thread? Who are some original characters that are creators favourites? I mean who take their character to an absurd degree of favoritism. Claremont with Storm and Kitty. And there was the time in the 00s when Claremont was determined to make Sage the new hotness.
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Apr 23, 2018 23:29
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cisneros posted:Is farmer Thanos that new? I had a really bad comic from '95 called Lunatik that featured the Thanos scarecrow. No, it's from the end of Infinity Gauntlet (or maybe the Adam Warlock series) where Adam Warlock tracks him down and they find out he didn't die at the end of the fight.
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Apr 23, 2018 23:30
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The Ultimate mini has one of the most famous panels in recent history, but Old Man Logan is probably the best known. Hulk fought Wolverine twice during Peter David's run. 340 has a famous cover with Hulk reflecting in Wolvie's claws and again late ron when Wolverine had bone claws. World War Hulk punches everybody including Wolverine. Hulk fought Wolverine in the Savage Land once.
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Apr 23, 2018 23:31
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Selachian posted:Claremont with Storm and Kitty. And there was the time in the 00s when Claremont was determined to make Sage the new hotness. Yeah, but Claremont's Storm and Kitty are awesome, at least the first time around, I haven't read any Claremont stuff from when he came back. Is any of it worthwhile?
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Apr 23, 2018 23:37
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Sadly not.
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Apr 23, 2018 23:38
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Heathen posted:Hulk fought Wolverine twice during Peter David's run. 340 has a famous cover with Hulk reflecting in Wolvie's claws and again late ron when Wolverine had bone claws. That first fight was great, because Wolverine completely lost his poo poo and "killed" Joe Fixit, only to have it revealed (like, on the next page) that the Hulk's general indestructibility turned out to actually be a very, very, very powerful healing factor. Heathen posted:World War Hulk punches everybody including Wolverine. Hulk slapped the poo poo out of Wolverine's skull so thoroughly that his brain was probably completely liquified. Pretty brutal way to knock somebody out of a fight.
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Apr 23, 2018 23:38
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I kinda want to say Bendis and Norman Osborn but then I might just be associating that with him being in charge with Dark Reign. Edit: wait never mind how could I say that when loving everybody jokes about how he loves Kitty Pryde?
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Apr 24, 2018 00:42
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To be fair, Bendis is far from unique when it comes to liking Kitty Pride maybe a bit too much.
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Apr 24, 2018 00:48
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Mr. Maltose posted:To be fair, Bendis is far from unique when it comes to liking Kitty Pride maybe a bit too much. She's like the original waifu, so much so that the term waifu seems like Japan culturally appropriating from America. Though to be honest I never disliked how Bendis wrote Kitty in the 616 or 1610.
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Apr 24, 2018 00:53
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Me either, but it's not exactly a high bar to clear when you have poo poo like Joss Whedon's "Oops, my powers activated due to the mysterious nature of the ~female orgasm~"
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Apr 24, 2018 01:03
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Sadly, that actually has grounding in continuity. At some point, I think in Excalibur, Claremont established that being phased is now Kitty's default state and she has to focus to be solid.
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Apr 24, 2018 02:04
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Senior Woodchuck posted:Sadly, that actually has grounding in continuity. At some point, I think in Excalibur, Claremont established that being phased is now Kitty's default state and she has to focus to be solid. Kitty was injured in Mutant Massacre in the X-Men issues and couldn't become solid anymore. Then in X-Men Vs. Fantastic Four, Dr. Doom and Reed Richards team up to at least let her become solid when she concentrates. Then she goes off and joins Excalibur.
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Apr 24, 2018 03:08
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It's redundant imo to say that she becomes more dense when she concentrates.
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Apr 24, 2018 04:03
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Why, is she an op-ed columnist?
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Apr 24, 2018 04:10
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Skwirl posted:Yeah, but Claremont's Storm and Kitty are awesome, at least the first time around, I haven't read any Claremont stuff from when he came back. Is any of it worthwhile? That series had a kind of a cool hook but just was really terrible. I had just gotten into comics when it launched and hadn't read any of the previous stuff regarding Destiny's diaries, but having a team leave the mansion for ~reasons~ (really so that Claremont didn't have to deal with any continuity from other X-books) was a good idea. The whole thing with Destinies diaries seemed to get dropped after the opening arc though.
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Apr 24, 2018 12:07
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X-treme X-Men is a mess but it's a weirdly loveable mess. It's loaded down with Claremont's fetishes (like, to an even more extreme degree than usual, there are multiple story arcs where BDSM is a key plot point) but it manages not to feel as skeevy as a lot of early 2000s comic books did simply on the basis that Claremont still pretty much respects women.
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Apr 24, 2018 12:15
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Like, I would rather read Storm: the Arena than any given arc from Ms. Marvel in the same time period, if that makes sense. One is horny as hell but still centres women and doesn't treat them as objects, and the other is trying to pretend it's mainstream, innocent and normal while having elaborate plot arcs about the Puppet Master turning teenage girls into mind controlled prostitutes.
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Apr 24, 2018 12:18
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My abiding memory of Storm: The Arena even 13-14 or so years later is how it had those mutants who wore gimp suits and had BDSM as their mutant powers: one of them had a whip that caused you to feel pain so intense it looped around and became pleasure, while the other one had claws that caused you to feel pleasure so intense it became painful when she cut you with them (as opposed to "claws that cause pain when she cut you with them", I suppose). There's one panel where Storm is chained up naked in a dungeon with a bit between her teeth while the latter is straddling her back and (from the looks of it) giving her multiple orgasms with her claws. I remember this because I was 13 at the time I read it and thought it was kind of a surprise to see in an X-Men book. All that being said, the most annoying thing about that arc is that it begins with Storm infiltrating an underground mutant cage fighting racket n Hong Kong to get a line on a mutant operating a mutant sex slave trafficking ring (or something like that) but he makes one appearance during the story itself and then never gets caught.
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Apr 24, 2018 13:01
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CzarChasm posted:It's more of a weird Spider-man moment, but it happens right around infinity gauntlet. That was an Ann Nocenti fill-in issue and it was great. I wasn't reading (adjectiveless) Spider-Man at the time, but I picked it up because it was an Infinity Gauntlet tie-in, and man, that story always stuck with me. Speaking of Spider-Man, can anyone explain to me what exactly is happening in this panel from Amazing Fantasy #15? I get that he's putting out a candle with his web, but... 
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Apr 24, 2018 13:30
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Wheat Loaf posted:My abiding memory of Storm: The Arena even 13-14 or so years later is how it had those mutants who wore gimp suits and had BDSM as their mutant powers: one of them had a whip that caused you to feel pain so intense it looped around and became pleasure, while the other one had claws that caused you to feel pleasure so intense it became painful when she cut you with them (as opposed to "claws that cause pain when she cut you with them", I suppose). "Has a whip" is an interesting biological evolution.
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Apr 24, 2018 13:44
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I might just be giving him a pass because I love Claremont, but I think the redeeming factors for The Arena are like: 1) All the fetishy stuff is self-contained, there's no actual sex/rape involved, and the thing Storm is forced to do is cage fighting with no sexual overtones. It's insanely paraphilic, but almost to the point where it's laughable, like at one point Masque transforms Storm into a dragon and it's treated with the same level of sexual subtext as the pain/pleasure gimps. 2) It canonises the longstanding romantic tension between Callisto and Storm, and basically has Callisto "come out" albeit in the most awkward way possible. 3) It keeps Storm's perspective throughout and honestly tells a pretty decent narrative with it. In the end, she and Callisto played Masque and defeated her, while becoming closer to each other. The story ultimately serves to build Storm up rather than to degrade her like a lot of "heroine in peril" narratives in comics have, and her victory doesn't feel tacked on to a story of fetishy exploitation as a status quo reset, but instead feels somewhat earned by the narrative.
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Apr 24, 2018 13:52
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In terms of "authors having a thing for Kitty Pryde" and "pet characters" I don't think you can overlook Warren Ellis, whose basic pitch for Excalibur was "I'm going to announce via fiat that Kitty Pryde is 21 now and in my first official issue introduce a character based on myself who will get Kitty Pryde drunk and gently caress her, which is okay because she's 21 now. Then the character based on me is going to make fun of Colossus for being a cuck that never sealed the deal with Kitty and just generally be the coolest guy in book while having *a lot* of sex with Kitty Pryde."
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Apr 24, 2018 15:05
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Wow, I never read Ellis' Excalibur and had no idea that he did that. I've poked fun at him for fetishizing particular concepts but not characters. (For example, a neo-fascist obsessed with Yukio Mishima appears as a one-off villain in both Stormwatch and Planetary.)
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Apr 24, 2018 15:16
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Pastry of the Year posted:Speaking of Spider-Man, can anyone explain to me what exactly is happening in this panel from Amazing Fantasy #15? I get that he's putting out a candle with his web, but... Is the candle swinging from a pendulum?
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Apr 24, 2018 21:49
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Edge & Christian posted:In terms of "authors having a thing for Kitty Pryde" and "pet characters" I don't think you can overlook Warren Ellis, whose basic pitch for Excalibur was "I'm going to announce via fiat that Kitty Pryde is 21 now and in my first official issue introduce a character based on myself who will get Kitty Pryde drunk and gently caress her, which is okay because she's 21 now. Then the character based on me is going to make fun of Colossus for being a cuck that never sealed the deal with Kitty and just generally be the coolest guy in book while having *a lot* of sex with Kitty Pryde." That's ajaundiced view of it, but only by a bit. Frankly, I think he did it to troll the readerbase more than anything else.
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Apr 24, 2018 23:36
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Did the Miracleman reprints and Angela's appearances stop at near enough the same time that we could reasonably speculate about the existence of some problem with the Gaiman deal, legally or otherwise?
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Apr 25, 2018 02:51
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Squizzle posted:Did the Miracleman reprints and Angela's appearances stop at near enough the same time that we could reasonably speculate about the existence of some problem with the Gaiman deal, legally or otherwise? ... I hadn't made that connection and I haven't seen anyone else either. When I asked at C2E2 last year I was shut down with a "We're not discussing that today." Neil's cozying back up at DC isn't he?
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Apr 25, 2018 03:02
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Edge & Christian posted:In terms of "authors having a thing for Kitty Pryde" and "pet characters" I don't think you can overlook Warren Ellis, whose basic pitch for Excalibur was "I'm going to announce via fiat that Kitty Pryde is 21 now and in my first official issue introduce a character based on myself who will get Kitty Pryde drunk and gently caress her, which is okay because she's 21 now. Then the character based on me is going to make fun of Colossus for being a cuck that never sealed the deal with Kitty and just generally be the coolest guy in book while having *a lot* of sex with Kitty Pryde." Pete Wisdom is just John Constantine if he was a loving fed. I don't really think of him as a self insert more than any other Ellis character. Squizzle posted:Did the Miracleman reprints and Angela's appearances stop at near enough the same time that we could reasonably speculate about the existence of some problem with the Gaiman deal, legally or otherwise? I'm not sure about the Miracleman issues, but Angela is pretty explicitly wholly owned by Neil Gaiman via court order, she just stopped showing up in Marvel stuff because her own books didn't sell well and writers on team books didn't have any ideas. Every Marvel book with Angela in it is still on Marvel Unlimited, but Miracleman never showed up there.
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Apr 25, 2018 03:07
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