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My family is about to buy a 2018 leaf. Gas is 9$ a gallon here, electricity is cheap and all from geothermal, and I guess we're bougie babies because we have a driveway with our duplex. We looked at used but a 2018 is 35k and is a huge upgrade from 2017, and last I checked, the 2016 used ones go for 30k, so.... The adoption of EVs here (iceland) has been quite rapid, for the above reasons. Leafs are deffo #1 but I've seen several Tesla's as well. I wonder how the gently caress the Tesla owners get their cars serviced... Also lolling at "days" for charging. The vast majority of EVs come with fast chargers that give you 80% charge in 40 min. I believe full charge on a regular outlet is 8 hours? (And has been for years with the leaf at least) poopinmymouth fucked around with this message at 09:00 on Apr 25, 2018 |
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Apr 25, 2018 08:56
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Don't forget that Americans have weak-rear end 110v You clearly have a special situation going in Iceland with super cheap electricity, expensive gas, and low density housing with private parking. This isn't the case everywhere including here in continental Europe, I have to park on the street and even my brand new office building doesn't have charging stations. Something like a leaf would be great for my parents who live in a small town and only need the car occasionally for shopping and stuff, but even a cheapo used Leaf is more expensive than a regular econobox. That said, Tesla is hella impressive and I could see them working for most people with a bit more infrastructure. People like to poo poo on them and clearly they have some issues with quality, dumb human interface ideas and screwed up the M3 manufacturing, but I think their overall strategy with starting with more exclusive luxury models that can absorb the extra cost is spot on. Ramping up mass-market car manufacturing quickly is hugely complicated and so it's not surprising, but hopefully they can iron out everything pretty soon. mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 14:17 on Apr 25, 2018 |
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Apr 25, 2018 10:01
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mobby_6kl posted:Don't forget that Americans have weak-rear end 110v power so it takes forever to charge a car. Hell they can't even use an electric kettle FFS. What? I'm American, and I've been using electric kettles all my life.
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Apr 25, 2018 10:03
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mobby_6kl posted:Don't forget that Americans have weak-rear end 110v power so it takes forever to charge a car. Hell they can't even use an electric kettle FFS. The very first nissan leaf, 2011, took only 17 hours to go full charge on 120V. Sorry, even worst case scenario "days" which is plural, is wildly inaccurate. It's never taken 24 hours to charge the good EVs from empty even with the worst charging mode. Now the brand new Tesla S, on the other hand.... 64-71 hours depending on load out on 120v https://www.clippercreek.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/SMUD_Charge-Times-Chart-20171208_Final_Low-Res.pdf poopinmymouth fucked around with this message at 11:24 on Apr 25, 2018 |
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Apr 25, 2018 11:22
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eschaton posted:Apps weren’t “patched in” later, the OS was steadily revised (starting before 1.0) to support third party apps, and SJ didn’t actually need any convincing. There just wasn’t time to do everything all at once. Buddy, the OS needing to be revised to do it is "being patched in later". Also again if it had been planned all along there is 0 reason for the feature to not be available until after the next model was out. Apple didn't want you to have apps on it like other smartphones had, period.
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Apr 25, 2018 11:40
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This thread is really nitpick central, isn't it? Of course you can use electric kettles, they just take twice as long to boil the water. This is called hyperbole.
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Apr 25, 2018 12:04
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mobby_6kl posted:This thread is really nitpick central, isn't it? It's not nitpicky. More than 1 person tried to hand wave EVs as being unusable by the masses because of days long charging times. That's flat out false. New EVs comes with a fast charger installs, which gets you 80% in 40 minutes, and can additionally be charged from any outlet albeit slower (but still doable). Even back when they *first* started, if you plugged in when returning from work, it'd be 100% even on the worst possible charging method by 9AM the next morning. There are situations where ICE cars make financial sense, especially most areas of the USA. EVs aren't a panacea, but nor are they wastrel luxury toys that never make financial sense as was posited.
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Apr 25, 2018 12:07
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eschaton posted:Apps weren’t “patched in” later, the OS was steadily revised (starting before 1.0) to support third party apps, and SJ didn’t actually need any convincing. There just wasn’t time to do everything all at once. ah the f35 design strategy mobby_6kl posted:Don't forget that Americans have weak-rear end 110v power so it takes forever to charge a car. Hell they can't even use an electric kettle FFS. voltage isn't power OJ MIST 2 THE DICK fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Apr 25, 2018 |
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Apr 25, 2018 12:39
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exploded mummy posted:voltage isn't power do americans get 110V 32A? if no it’s also less power
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Apr 25, 2018 13:31
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Wheany posted:Details, please People are apparently getting suspended as suspected bots for using words like 'thank you'.
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Apr 25, 2018 14:01
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suck my woke dick posted:do americans get 110V 32A? if no it’s also less power Standard home EV chargers in the US are 240V and 30-40A. US standard home power is 240V split phase; lights and small appliances run off a single leg, and large appliances use both. Nobody with an electric car uses a 120V charge cable unless they're desperate, masochistic, or only drive once every few days.
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Apr 25, 2018 14:04
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suck my woke dick posted:do americans get 110V 32A? if no it’s also less power It's AC power, so you have to include the power factor. It's different between the US and European standards.
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Apr 25, 2018 14:12
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boner confessor posted:a lot of them are weird concept cars that are one-offs or very limited runs, which were either destroyed or are functionally priceless in some rich car nerd's collection  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citicar my friend just bought one of these to drive around chicago and i have no idea how he's going to survive the slightest bump
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Apr 25, 2018 14:23
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rkajdi posted:It's AC power, so you have to include the power factor. It's different between the US and European standards. The power factor should be as close to unity as possible in both cases.
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Apr 25, 2018 14:29
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Space Gopher posted:Standard home EV chargers in the US are 240V and 30-40A. US standard home power is 240V split phase; lights and small appliances run off a single leg, and large appliances use both. Nobody with an electric car uses a 120V charge cable unless they're desperate, masochistic, or only drive once every few days. Yes let me just wire a new 240v line to my rental's exterior.
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Apr 25, 2018 16:58
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:Yes let me just wire a new 240v line to my rental's exterior. Or to my condo's parkade. I think a big problem is that the biggest market for EVs (people living in urban areas with short commutes or infrequent car use) have the least ability to set up a charging station.
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Apr 25, 2018 17:01
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fishmech posted:No it didn't. It only had the ability to bookmark webpages as icons because Steve Jobs' demented demands were that everything be done through the browser. Correct, Web Apps. In fact, Apple even had a sort-of-app-store for this. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2007/10/apple-launches-official-iphone-web-apps-directory/ Brag: I share design credit for the very first iPhone game released, launched the weekend the iPhone launched. iWhack.
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Apr 25, 2018 17:16
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fishmech posted:The original iPhone did not have apps, nor an app store, nor anything like that. This was because Apple's attempt to make a "new trajectory" for smartphones was a hopelessly misguided effort based around the web that failed spectacularly and had to be changed to fit into the Symbian/WinMo/etc model of phones that had features like apps, and 3G support, etc. Not exactly. It was a BRILLIANT Steve Jobs play that got Apple control over the apps on the phone. Before this, the carriers controlled the stack. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/apples-boca-raton-moment_b_622852.html Apple launched the iPhone in the summer of 2007. Prior to the launch, mobile content (ringtones, wallpapers, apps) were under the control of the operators. Anyone who complains about the iPhone App Store should ask developers what it was like to get an app “on deck” at AT&T, Sprint, or Verizon in 2005. So Apple, already having launched iTunes, naturally gets the rights to sell music on the new iPhone. But what about the apps? Well, this was Apple’s “Boca Raton” moment. So what Jobs does is launch the device with Web Apps only, as a strategy to get AT&T and the rest to cede control of the platform to Apple. Nothing to worry about Mr. Operator, honest: “Developers and users alike are going to be very surprised and pleased at how great these applications look and work on iPhone,” said Steve Jobs, Apple’s CEO. “Our innovative approach, using Web 2.0-based standards, lets developers create amazing new applications while keeping the iPhone secure and reliable.” - Steve Jobs, June 11th, 2007. Of course Apple has to be able to update the iPhone’s operating system and core apps (mail etc.) and that is done, naturally, via iTunes. AT&T goes along with this, seeing that Apple already was dominating MP3 players. Precedence set with an earlier (failed) Motorola phone (ROKR*) that also featured iTunes. I mean how big could this new phone be given the failure of Moto iTunes phone? I would have loved to been at that meeting. So Steve pulls a Gates and wrests control of content away from the carriers. A year later, native apps and the App Store appear and by then the iPhone is too important for AT&T to really object. Hence the App Store and for all the complaints about approvals ad-nauseum, the first time a ‘open’ market for software exists on a mobile device. 200k apps and billions of downloads later, the historical importance of this is clear.
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Apr 25, 2018 17:18
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Paging ThreePhase. Property owners just need to invest in their infrastructure, sure would be nice if there was a decent sized tax credit to install chargers much in the same way energy companies put up large rebates on retrofitting florescent lights in the late 90's early 00's. It's not that power isn't "available" its the whole last mile problem or this case 60 feet of conduit and copper to hook up a dryer outlet in your garage. The quick super chargers are super expensive and require a very large transformer to work correctly. So don't think you are going to see those outside of places that have a ton of extra money to burn or municipalities investing in infrastructure.
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Apr 25, 2018 17:21
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fishmech posted:Buddy, the OS needing to be revised to do it is "being patched in later". straight from the jobs bio - "Jobs at first quashed the discussion, partly because he felt his team did not have the bandwidth involved in policing third-party app developers. He wanted focus...But as soon as the iPhone was launched he was willing to hear the debate"
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Apr 25, 2018 17:22
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BlueBlazer posted:Paging ThreePhase. Reykjavik is considering turning all city lamp posts into chargers. We already have multiple free chargers (complete with free parking as long as it's an EV, even though all other parking surrounding is paid) downtown, but the lamp post plan is really stepping up the game. Hope it goes through. *edit* It also seems weird to see the convenience of ICE, which has had decades of infrastructure build up by way of roads, gas stations, and the resulting cultural conditioning of when and how you "fill up" your vehicle*, be applied to EVs in the ramp up and adoption period. I get that if it's not convenient, it's not convenient, but let's at least be fair about the reasons why there is such a difference for the time being. *a coworker asked me exactly about charging, because he lives in a block apartment building. I said with the range of the new Leaf, and how short his commute is, he could easily charge it during the day when it's parked downtown. It's different than filling up at gas stations or having a charger at your house, but for plenty of people "charge during the day" could be a solution to "not having the ability to have a fast charger at your house/condo/yurt" poopinmymouth fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Apr 25, 2018 |
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Apr 25, 2018 17:24
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Also web apps weren't "no apps", they were a doofy idea and they sucked and it makes sense they switched to native apps, but if you asked some random person in 2007 with an iphone if they had any apps they would probably say "yes" then point to one while you had to yell at them to explain they aren't technically native so they don't count as apps under some official definition. Like to most people it's more that iphones had bad app implementation instead of no apps. As far as most people knew the stuff they were using was apps.
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Apr 25, 2018 17:31
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poopinmymouth posted:Reykjavik is considering turning all city lamp posts into chargers. We already have multiple free chargers (complete with free parking as long as it's an EV, even though all other parking surrounding is paid) downtown, but the lamp post plan is really stepping up the game. Hope it goes through. This would work in in the States as most streetlights are running 480/277, more appropriate for charging voltages on fast chargers. There are 10 different ways to go about it, you just have to convince a manufacturer that there is a legitimate market with public(lol, if they havn't already been privatized) utilities. The US is stupid with its infrastructure as it must adhere to the terms of short term capitalism thinking, so nothing will get done. *loses all hope*
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Apr 25, 2018 17:35
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SaTaMaS posted:straight from the jobs bio - Historically, the "bandwidth" argument has fallen on deaf ears. Every imaginable feature is cut out of spite, engineers are limitless engines of productivity that churn out whatever is requested. Spinning up a moderation team and the requisite policies would also have been free. The original iPhone was supported until 2010. It ran apps for the majority of this time, and an original iPhone in working order today would run apps.
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Apr 25, 2018 17:45
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BlueBlazer posted:This would work in in the States as most streetlights are running 480/277, more appropriate for charging voltages on fast chargers. There are 10 different ways to go about it, you just have to convince a manufacturer that there is a legitimate market with public(lol, if they havn't already been privatized) utilities. Found the full plan, and it's in English! https://reykjavik.is/en/reykjavik-and-climate *edit* don't see the lamp post idea mentioned there, but it is here, so it might have been spoken about in the meeting but not made it into the policy proposal language: http://icelandreview.com/news/2018/04/15/city-wide-lamppost-charging-stations-proposed-reykjavik 
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Apr 25, 2018 17:46
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:
Would you say they had bad applementation?
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Apr 25, 2018 17:51
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Also web apps weren't "no apps", they were a doofy idea and they sucked and it makes sense they switched to native apps, but if you asked some random person in 2007 with an iphone if they had any apps they would probably say "yes" then point to one while you had to yell at them to explain they aren't technically native so they don't count as apps under some official definition. Are all cameras the loving same too, regardless of film or digital?
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Apr 25, 2018 18:00
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:some revisionist history to ignore the whole web 2.0 push that coincidentally happened at the same time What? What does that have to do with web apps?
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Apr 25, 2018 18:08
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JawnV6 posted:Historically, the "bandwidth" argument has fallen on deaf ears. Every imaginable feature is cut out of spite, engineers are limitless engines of productivity that churn out whatever is requested. Spinning up a moderation team and the requisite policies would also have been free. Sure, but for some reason fishmech refuses to differentiate between official apps, which the first iphone clearly ran, and third-party apps, which the first iphone did not run since the app store wasn't done yet. Other than some initial reluctance from Jobs, the limiting factor wasn't willingness or money, but time.
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Apr 25, 2018 18:16
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SaTaMaS posted:Sure, but for some reason fishmech refuses to differentiate between official apps, which the first iphone clearly ran, and third-party apps, which the first iphone did not run since the app store wasn't done yet. Other than some initial reluctance from Jobs, the limiting factor wasn't willingness or money, but time. They always had apps, they just sucked until they had native apps. https://web.archive.org/web/20071011225255/https://www.apple.com/webapps/ Like it was a bad experiment but it's roughly how chromebook apps work now and no one really labors the technicality that they aren't apps. It's more that the apple implementation sucked and made a bad product and so was abandoned. If you were using an iphone in 2007 you probably thought you had apps until someone with nerd glasses came and tried to convince you that that bejeweled icon on your home screen that opens bejeweled isn't technically an application and is actually an HTML page using a special apple API to render native UI elements.
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Apr 25, 2018 18:34
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Baronash posted:What? What does that have to do with web apps? the intent was there to not be apps. They called them "web apps" only because people were familiar with the term Owlofcreamcheese posted:They always had apps, they just sucked until they had native apps. the chrome apps are fully vetted including enterprise extension pushes and moderation. It's not at all similar to how iphones were at release. What you mean is that a release iPhone was similar to going to m.imgur.com and using that interface.
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Apr 25, 2018 18:51
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:the chrome apps are fully vetted including enterprise extension pushes and moderation. It's not at all similar to how iphones were at release. What you mean is that a release iPhone was similar to going to m.imgur.com and using that interface. the apple web apps had all sorts of custom UI stuff and could interact with the phone hardware. It still sucked, but it was more than just a link to a mobile website. Or it could be, if a company did the work to make it. Which no one forced them to. Like the whole thing was a mess and a failure, but it was their initial attempt to have apps, they didn't launch with no apps, just a very bad model for how apps should work
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Apr 25, 2018 19:05
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self unaware posted:Yes I'm aware the free market doesn't work. They could easily be cheaper, multiple the existing tax credit by 10x OK, yeah, so if we're going to enact some really expensive and radical government policy to unfuck our transportation system why not actually do it properly and improve public transportation/urban planning instead of just going with the half measure of using the money to incentivize electric cars? Like, I totally agree with you that the current system isn't working but you seem really oddly fixated on how electric cars are a bourgeois solution to the problem and we should make them less so. They're a bourgeois solution because they're an attempt to address the problem through our capitalist economy, an attempt which doesn't require massive government intervention to make an impact. If you are going to take the availability of massive government intervention as a given then there are better ways to focus on the problem, and in fact those better ways aren't even exclusive with people who have the financial ability buying electric cars in the meantime.
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Apr 25, 2018 19:30
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fishmech posted:Buddy, the OS needing to be revised to do it is "being patched in later". Sure there is: The OS support wasn’t ready until then. You grossly underestimate the amount of work required to ship an OS with a well-designed API, comprehensive developer tools, full forward binary compatibility, and a strict security model. Hint: This is not secondhand.
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Apr 25, 2018 19:34
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Eletriarnation posted:OK, yeah, so if we're going to enact some really expensive and radical government policy to unfuck our transportation system why not actually do it properly and improve public transportation/urban planning instead of just going with the half measure of using the money to incentivize electric cars? the stock response here is to say "we can and should do both" and then never talk about mass transit again while continuing to talk about how electric vehicles will solve the problem
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Apr 25, 2018 19:49
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eschaton posted:Hint: This is not secondhand. Fishmech has the same citation policies as wikipedia: no first hand sources, only 2nd or higher.
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Apr 25, 2018 19:50
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PT6A posted:Or to my condo's parkade. I think a big problem is that the biggest market for EVs (people living in urban areas with short commutes or infrequent car use) have the least ability to set up a charging station. And said people have the least reason to have a personal vehicle if there is a functional public transportation system. Which leaves EV's to the suburbanite/exurbanite crowd which is a majority rightwing dumbfucks who think EV's are for homo communists. "What if I want to take a 500 mile road trip on my two weeks of unpaid time off I'm technically allowed?!"
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Apr 25, 2018 20:56
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ryonguy posted:And said people have the least reason to have a personal vehicle if there is a functional public transportation system. Not necessarily. Even with the existence of a decent public transit system, there are some places transit just won't go and it will likely never, ever get built. I live downtown in a condo and I walk or take transit pretty much whenever possible, but I still need a vehicle to go places where transit doesn't run (or runs particularly inefficiently). A good EV would be perfect for me, but, alas, no charging is available in my parkade.
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Apr 25, 2018 21:03
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PT6A posted:
Or ALSO if you need to do some shopping. It's more efficient to be able to do one trip for multiple tasks, but if you have to take transit you're heavily limited in what you can get. Good luck going shopping for 2 weeks worth of groceries plus picking up a new set of clothes.
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Apr 25, 2018 21:32
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EV Car2Gos would be good too, but so far it's just lovely smart cars and Mercedeses for some reason.
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Apr 25, 2018 21:38
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