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Do you have any PCs with the gunsmith theme? If yes, you're obviously worried it's going to unbalance things together with the deadly damage, so don't make it deadly - at least until level 5 when you can reassess. If no, feel free to bump the damage, but tell your players your worries about the gunsmith theme and ask them to avoid that, if they somehow get another theme choice down the line.
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Apr 16, 2018 12:18
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Free Triangle posted:Has anyone played War of the Burning Sky or Zeitgeist in 4e? Is there anything I should know before DMing it. My advice? Just go with it, man. The oppposition is great, the story is fantastic, and the whole thing is nuanced in ways I don't expect adventure paths to be. Like, for example, there's a reasonable chance the PCs might end up joining the main 'bad guys', the Obscurati, because quite frankly they make a bit of sense sometimes. Later in the adventure path, depending on party makeup, you might need to tweak some enemies. I can give pointers on that if they come up. Mostly I changed everything to a 1st Level Damage Forever calculation once we hit Epic tier, and added on a few additional tweaks to make certain it was a challenge. My advice? (1) Definitely make sure the players know the campaign's 'ground rules' - that is, you're all RHC constables, the RHC being some kind of weird combination of CIA and Secret Service, that Risur is a pretty rad country, and at least at the start they all should have a sense of loyalty towards their home nation. Yeah, even the Vekeshi Mystics, because that's not an inherently incompatible goal. (1a) The Zeitgeist themes are completely great, and you should strongly encourage your players to use them. I have a .dnd4e file (which at least has the level 1 stuff) up in my google drive if you use the old character builder. PM me for details. (2) Read up on the Fey Titans, the Planes/Planets, and the various philosophers that are mentioned. Throw in references here or there - it helps give players a reminder of the setting and history and some of it may be important later. (3) The players' early relationships - mostly with Delft, King Aodhan, Harkover Lee, and Lya Jierre - can get somewhat established in the first adventure. If you aim for all of them to be pretty positive (like, Delft's a good boss; Aodhan is a good king, etc.) it'll help cement their loyalty and get them well-primed. (4) As mentioned up above, guns as-is can be kinda a bit underwhelming, particularly since there's only a handful of classes that can even use them well. I have some gun advice, which I'll put in below. (5) Oh yeah, the downside ... Zeitgeist has some freaking enormous maps. In addition to normal 1" character minis, you will want to have something around for a 1/2" scale, because if you're printing/duplicating the maps there's no way around using 1"=10' scales on some of them. If you're using a VTT this is less of a concern, but for real. (6) The players will have a ton of resources at their disposal. I'd use Item Rarities, and frankly just rely on inherent bonuses. A few of the PCs ended out the game without a magic weapon or magic armor, and it worked just fine. They mostly stuck to the (awesome and flavorful) items that were seeded throughout the adventure path. I mean seriously, just do it - it took us the better part of 3 years, and it was worth it the whole time. It plays very well to 4e's strengths. ------ Guns in Zeitgeist So here's what I did, take it or leave it... * Firearms benefit from the best +attack/+damage weapon feats you have, and always use your primary attack stat. This makes them an ideal occasional-use ranged weapon that everyone should lug around. It also means firing off a round before closing to melee is a good strategy. * I use the original Firearm Expertise, which changes firearms to Load Minor in addition to the normal attack bonuses. If your characters pursue the Gunsmith path, they won't even need this. * If your players want to go dual-pistol, let them treat 2 pistols as 1 rifle for the game math. There is no 4e class which uses dual pistols well at all; this at least means Rangers and Hunters can go all gunslinger. * Grenades should only and always be treated as single-use basic attack bombs. There are some seriously dumb things that can happen if you let them get used as Weapons for Weapon powers. With all of this, my players used firearms quite a lot over the course of the campaign. ImpactVector posted:Not sure how often they check the thread, but the OP dwarf74 ran Zeitgeist all the way through 1-30 AFAIK. At the very least you could glance through their post history in the thread.  dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Apr 17, 2018 |
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Apr 16, 2018 14:57
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Free Triangle posted:So we're playing Zeitgeist, the setting seems pretty good overall, but I'm worried that guns are underpowered. From levels 1-4 a bow/crossbow does more damage due to the standard reload time. The +1 average damage from brutal 2 isn't close to matching the damage you lose from reloading. Would using the increased 2w damage rules break the game? Free Triangle posted:Yes, the problem I see happening is that by level 5 a gunsmith theme with clips can shoot 5-6 times before reloading as a minor/free action, essentially giving them a much harder hitting longbow. I did not use the added damage rules and honestly wouldn't recommend starting with them. If there's an issue you can always tweak it down the road. If you have a character who is gun-focused, let them reload as a Minor action with the Firearms Expertise feat. It'll be fine. For a super fun exploit, though, my game had a Wild Sorcerer/Gunsmith/Mad Shootist. When their rifle turned into a blaster, their ranged basic attacks got the Arcane keyword and all hell broke loose. It was a real good time.
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Apr 16, 2018 15:04
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Thanks, that all seems great
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Apr 17, 2018 21:37
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Any other tips for running Zeitgeist, just in general? I'm eyeing it pretty strongly right now.
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Apr 18, 2018 00:27
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dwarf74 posted:For a super fun exploit, though, my game had a Wild Sorcerer/Gunsmith/Mad Shootist. When their rifle turned into a blaster, their ranged basic attacks got the Arcane keyword and all hell broke loose. It was a real good time. How did you figure that Mad Shootist gives the Arcane keyword to RBAs? It's powers are arcane, but I don't think it modified your basic attack keywords. Doesn't really matter now that you're done, but I'm curious. PMush Perfect posted:Any other tips for running Zeitgeist, just in general? I'm eyeing it pretty strongly right now. The player's stuff is kind of all over the place power-wise. Escathologist is garbage outside of your ability to fiat someone's survival once per day, Urban Empath is just astonishingly underwhelming, Monument of War is "eh" and Steamsuit pilot doesn't give you nearly anything worth the hassle of every power having a drawback and the suit requiring a saving throw every single time you take damage (outside of maybe a tiefling paladin hero's poise gimmick). Polyhistor and Logos are pretty strong, polyhistor in particular if on a class that makes a lot of basic attacks (essentials classes, fighters). I think Applied Astronomist could also have the Arcane keyword on its powers just because it would be a neat fit for a Cosmic Sorcerer. Due to the fact that advanced Martial Scientist abilities are doled out over a long span of levels and tend to be rather situation-specific compared to the starter power, you might be better off considering the prep-period from "after an extended rest at 1st level, after a short rest at 10th level" to "after a short rest at 1st level, once per encounter as a free action at 10th level" or so because otherwise you can get stuck with something that you won't use all day compared to the starter power and it kind of goes against the improvisation/blue mage spirit of the theme. Either that or just make it so you can prep the starter power plus one other power or something. Gunsmith should probably give proficiency in firearms just to make sure that all the ranged weapon classes can use them properly. Could also give superior firearm proficiency at 10 just so they're not outshone by martial scientists (who get proficiency in superior weapons, armor and implements at level 10). This adventure path has a fair amount of enemies that can hack off limbs or otherwise maim PCs. Figure out how/if they can fix that during or after a fight since by default 3e's regenerate spell doesn't exist. There's like all of one thing that removes limbs in 4e otherwise so it's not something the game normally thinks about. Generally figure out if your players are the kind of people to get attached to things, and if they are then figure out what they're attached to and work it in some more, same with anything from their backstories. You do a lot of traveling around and meet a lot of people, so there's always the opportunity to tweak something so it better fits the party. It can be kind of silly if everything connects to somebody, but you can get a lot stronger of a response if someone the party knows is working with/in the path of the conspiracy. Also, keeping track of things is rewarded/maybe required, so letting them take notes and/or reminding them of certain details can be good. You should probably stick to the compilation volumes- it's cheaper to buy 3 of them than all 13 modules and they also edited them to fix and clarify a bunch of things. Figure out how you want to deal with naval combat. The game has its own little system but it can be pretty underwhelming since you don't really do all that much other than move and shoot something, with the majority of the players just hanging around giving out passive bonuses. It's also pretty easy to game since the most optimal strategy is "target enemy propulsion then kick the poo poo out of them once they're immobilized". If your players actually like their boat, ENWorld sells an "Admiral of the High Seas" supplement where the rules came from, which also includes a big rear end list of magical item enhancements to your ship, a bunch of which are actually fun. It can be especially annoying because later adventures have enemy ships but don't always tell you what everything in the ship's stat block actually does. The big offender here is the various ammunition types- it will list chain shot but not actually tell you that it does an extra strike of damage when targeting propulsion (making a targeted chain shot by the gunner the single fastest way to turn the fight in your favor, since two strikes to propulsion is instant immobilization). It also does a bit of world-building for both the Zeitgeist and War of the Burning Skies APs, but it's more cute than essential.
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Apr 18, 2018 06:45
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LightWarden posted:How did you figure that Mad Shootist gives the Arcane keyword to RBAs? It's powers are arcane, but I don't think it modified your basic attack keywords. Doesn't really matter now that you're done, but I'm curious. These are some good advice. The only other thing I would add is "do it". Also, if you use Fantasy Grounds and plan on playing it online, I've converted the entire first act (Adventures 1thru5) for use with Fantasy Grounds so hit me up.
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Apr 18, 2018 07:17
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LightWarden posted:How did you figure that Mad Shootist gives the Arcane keyword to RBAs? It's powers are arcane, but I don't think it modified your basic attack keywords. Doesn't really matter now that you're done, but I'm curious. quote:The player's stuff is kind of all over the place power-wise. Escathologist is garbage outside of your ability to fiat someone's survival once per day, Urban Empath is just astonishingly underwhelming, Monument of War is "eh" and Steamsuit pilot doesn't give you nearly anything worth the hassle of every power having a drawback and the suit requiring a saving throw every single time you take damage (outside of maybe a tiefling paladin hero's poise gimmick). Polyhistor and Logos are pretty strong, polyhistor in particular if on a class that makes a lot of basic attacks (essentials classes, fighters). I think Applied Astronomist could also have the Arcane keyword on its powers just because it would be a neat fit for a Cosmic Sorcerer. Polyhistor was the stand-out, though. Even on a non-MBA class (in this case a Warden), the Defensive stance was crazy good. My advice is, don't be afraid to tweak anything that doesn't seem too great. quote:This adventure path has a fair amount of enemies that can hack off limbs or otherwise maim PCs. Figure out how/if they can fix that during or after a fight since by default 3e's regenerate spell doesn't exist. There's like all of one thing that removes limbs in 4e otherwise so it's not something the game normally thinks about. quote:Figure out how you want to deal with naval combat. The game has its own little system but it can be pretty underwhelming since you don't really do all that much other than move and shoot something, with the majority of the players just hanging around giving out passive bonuses. It's also pretty easy to game since the most optimal strategy is "target enemy propulsion then kick the poo poo out of them once they're immobilized". If your players actually like their boat, ENWorld sells an "Admiral of the High Seas" supplement where the rules came from, which also includes a big rear end list of magical item enhancements to your ship, a bunch of which are actually fun. We hated naval combat. Hated it a whole bunch. It never felt anything more than tacked-on and unnecessary, and the tactics were not at all interesting. After giving it a few tries, we swapped it out for narration and skill challenges, using some of the barest bones of the system. All this is YMMV - your players may get totally into having their own boat - but mine definitely did not. When I asked for their feedback once the campaign was over, the one common theme was "NAVAL COMBAT BAD."
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Apr 18, 2018 17:02
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My problem with Urban Empath is that if you're not in a high-density urban environment (or perhaps within 3 miles of one, if the 11th level feature is also supposed to apply everywhere else) then you basically don't have a Paragon Path. You lose both your 11th and 16th level features, leaving only your AP feature (which only works on man-made structures, so it doesn't work if you're wandering around in a forest or something). Your Encounter 11 becomes absolute garbage that unfavorably compares with an at-will, leaving only your kind of cramped Utility 12 and perfectly serviceable Daily 20 powers. And you spend about half the paragon/epic part of the campaign not in urban environments unless you play really loose and round down the "1000 people per square mile" definition to "1 person per 50 ft x 50 ft area" which basically turns anything into an urban environment once the party shows up. There are times when it can work out well when you are in an urban environment, but the floor really needs to be brought up on the powers to prevent the famine situations.
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Apr 19, 2018 06:36
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LightWarden posted:My problem with Urban Empath is that if you're not in a high-density urban environment (or perhaps within 3 miles of one, if the 11th level feature is also supposed to apply everywhere else) then you basically don't have a Paragon Path. You lose both your 11th and 16th level features, leaving only your AP feature (which only works on man-made structures, so it doesn't work if you're wandering around in a forest or something). Your Encounter 11 becomes absolute garbage that unfavorably compares with an at-will, leaving only your kind of cramped Utility 12 and perfectly serviceable Daily 20 powers. And you spend about half the paragon/epic part of the campaign not in urban environments unless you play really loose and round down the "1000 people per square mile" definition to "1 person per 50 ft x 50 ft area" which basically turns anything into an urban environment once the party shows up. There are times when it can work out well when you are in an urban environment, but the floor really needs to be brought up on the powers to prevent the famine situations.  I was about as generous as I could be with the definition of civilized areas, but still.He single-handedly shut down a major encounter in Adventure 13 with his Urban Empath mojo, which may be part of it*. And he was a Warlord, which is rad enough on its own most of the time. And he had transitioned from Spirit Shaman, which gets a substantial power boost when you're using the 1st Level Damage Forever calcs like I am. * It was to shut down Harkover/Inacht's scorched earth plan in Flint. He used a Fourmyle Jaunt to get to the causeway where all the pipes were coming from, his Action Point feature to just ... sink through the sidewalk, and City Marches to War to just ... well, wreck it all. In one round. I figured the Obscurati, being the Obscurati, trusting in their control, and setting up for the long haul, would certainly have a well-maintained maintenance tunnel for anything this important.
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Apr 19, 2018 14:37
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What are some good things to do at level one? I heard some talk of some feats people should take for free but dunno where I saw it in the thread.
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Apr 26, 2018 23:43
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Nomadic Scholar posted:What are some good things to do at level one? I heard some talk of some feats people should take for free but dunno where I saw it in the thread. Improved Defenses and an Expertise are the typical freebies, since they correct scaling issues between the monster & PC math later on. Some groups also do a free Melee Training feat so every class can have a passable basic attack for opportunity attacks/leader abilities.
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Apr 27, 2018 00:05
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Oh neat. The character builder link in the CB thread seems to go nowhere on Microsoft's site. My friends wanna run the game but we need the CB to help streamline creation without using the clunky incomplete wiki.
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Apr 27, 2018 01:05
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I wrote these instructions ages ago, don't know if it will still work, but give it a try https://rogue-elements.obsidianportal.com/wikis/offline-character-builder
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Apr 27, 2018 01:29
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Holy poo poo one of my players has decided to DM! I haven't gotten to be a player in D&D since it came out like back in 2009! What's good build advice on a level 8 brawler fighter? I wanna choke-slam a dragon. Any other cool ideas for anything in the defender role are also appreciated.
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Apr 27, 2018 02:08
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Xiahou Dun posted:Holy poo poo one of my players has decided to DM! I haven't gotten to be a player in D&D since it came out like back in 2009! Feyslaughter Spiked Gauntlet (shut down teleports for a turn on hit) and the Inescapable Hold feat (forces any Acrobatics checks to escape to check against your Fort instead of Ref) will make you very sticky.
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Apr 27, 2018 02:16
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Man, I forgot how cool brawler fighters are. I played one for a bit, it was great.
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Apr 27, 2018 02:57
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Xiahou Dun posted:Holy poo poo one of my players has decided to DM! I haven't gotten to be a player in D&D since it came out like back in 2009! If you want to bare-knuckle as opposed to grab-and-stab, monk multiclass makes for a pretty badass brawler with Monk Unarmed Strike and Ki Focus proficiency. It doesn't play well with the offline builder but it's a blast to punch golems and poo poo.
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Apr 27, 2018 04:53
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I kind of am thinking of maybe a goliath and refluffing a big-rear end heavy shield to also be my weapon for sick AC bonus but also keeping a hand free. Also I just find the idea of a dude armed with nothing but a shield and his swole-rear end muscles amazing.
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Apr 27, 2018 06:18
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You could always flavor away the shield and say he's unarmed while retaining the shield bonus
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Apr 27, 2018 07:37
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So I may get the chance to run an Eberron game, and I plan on using The Slaying Stpme and Madness at Gardmore Abbeh, while also adapting The Red Hand of Doom to 4e. Have any of you done the latter? Also, are there any really gold setpieces or e counters I might poach from otner 4e modules and toss into such a game?
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Apr 28, 2018 15:52
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Red Hand sucked a lot when I tried it
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Apr 28, 2018 16:10
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Plutonis posted:Red Hand sucked a lot when I tried it What did you not like about it?
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Apr 28, 2018 16:22
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I never finished it but I remember RHoD having a lot of filler fights and some major assumptions about the players 'playing along', rather than coming up with better ideas.
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Apr 28, 2018 20:04
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PMush Perfect posted:I never finished it but I remember RHoD having a lot of filler fights and some major assumptions about the players 'playing along', rather than coming up with better ideas. Yeah it might ahve been the gm but i remember having like five loving fights with random goblin brigands that led nowhere before i went 'yeah gently caress that'
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Apr 28, 2018 20:16
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Geez, well, I may skip it unless nothing else grips my players by that point. Shame, the battle objective track seemed pretty cool.
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Apr 28, 2018 20:18
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Moriatti posted:Geez, well, I may skip it unless nothing else grips my players by that point. Edit: An idea I put forth somewhere was a "combat check" to skim over easy or inconsequential fights. Everyone makes a Basic Attack against a reasonable AC for the fight. Anyone who fails loses a healing surge. Just one. Then, "fight" over. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Apr 28, 2018 |
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Apr 28, 2018 21:17
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That seems pretty good. I would have to rework all the fights anyways bwcause new edition.
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Apr 28, 2018 23:09
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I'd just make that a skill challenge cause "basic attack vs. AC" kinda shafts every class that doesn't base their attacks on STR. Spitballing: For inconsequential fights, everyone makes a "combat" skill check using their attack ability score. Everyone's considered to be trained in the combat skill, but you only use it for this kind of check. If you come up with a cool thing you did during the fight, you get to substitute an appropriate regular skill (which you may have additional bonuses to). Failure costs you a healing surge or Daily power, your choice. Maybe super hard failure by like 10 or more costs you one of each. but honestly if you're reworking things anyway just ("just") rework them so there are no filler fights.
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Apr 28, 2018 23:21
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Most classes have an at-will that replaces a basic attack, but that is a good point for the few that don't. Personally, what I would do is the PCs making an attack and then the monsters making one, each targeting an opponent. PC resolves first, then monsters. Elites and solos get more attacks. NachtSieger fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Apr 30, 2018 |
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Apr 30, 2018 04:31
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This module is very in the future but I'll probably just use skill challenges when encounters wouldn't make sense and add a nice set-piece to the encounters that should be there but are bland.
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Apr 30, 2018 04:41
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NachtSieger posted:Most classes have an at-will that replaces a basic attack, but that is a good point for the few that don't. Wait. If it's worth having a solo why are you glossing over the fight? It's a boss monster.
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Apr 30, 2018 04:56
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Over at the Giant in the Playground forums there's a guide for DMing RHoD, but it's the 3.5e version. There's still more broadly-applicable stuff in there in terms of plot hooks and theme. It's also possible to run some sections more Lair Attack style, where you have smaller encounters with no rest in between or put enemies in waves. Dungeon sites like Vraath Keep and the Ruins of Rhest and parts of the Battle of Brindol in particular.
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Apr 30, 2018 05:07
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Xiahou Dun posted:Wait. If it's worth having a solo why are you glossing over the fight? It's a boss monster. Sometimes I just want to skip the foreplay. Or I posted mostly with an actual thought, got derailed into another idea, and then continued posting without making the A and B connections complete. MY BAD. Post still stands, just ignore the solo part.
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Apr 30, 2018 08:26
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NachtSieger posted:Most classes have an at-will that replaces a basic attack
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Apr 30, 2018 08:53
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LightWarden posted:Over at the Giant in the Playground forums there's a guide for DMing RHoD, but it's the 3.5e version. There's still more broadly-applicable stuff in there in terms of plot hooks and theme. This is good stuff, thank you! I've convinced someone to switch GM with me so I'm going to slowly work through Monster Vault and make sprite edits of all of those monsters in FE style with a universal size to make things easier/have a more consistent aesthetic. I did Angels today, and I'm probably gonna post these unless you guys find this annoying. 
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Apr 30, 2018 18:15
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Moriatti posted:This is good stuff, thank you!  Alternately, the TG art thread would probably also get a kick out of them if you wanted a wider(?) audience.
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Apr 30, 2018 19:16
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ImpactVector posted:Nope, those own. In my experience TG art fans are not more or less wide than any other nerds.
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Apr 30, 2018 19:21
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ImpactVector posted:Nope, those own. Oh cool, because I also finished Archons. (Though that's about it today.) 
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Apr 30, 2018 20:08
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My Lovely Horse posted:I haven't counted but from my experience I wouldn't say "most". Plus, if you have to pick your basic attack at-will to be good in the filler fights, that's the point that at-will becomes a power tax the same way expertise is considered feat tax. I've always found the basic attack replacers largely good, but that might just be down to the circles I ran around in 
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Apr 30, 2018 23:40
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