|
LORD OF BOOTY posted:Er... where are you pulling this from, exactly? I'm not inclined to agree or disagree either way, but I was pretty sure the only time Shrek comes up at all in the movie is Will Smith offhandedly calling Edgerton that. I'm pretty sure he calls one of the orc gang members Shrek, not Edgerton. But, anyway, the point is that Shrek exists in the world of Bright. This has substantial implications, considering that Shrek is already a movie about a greedy white monarch forcing 'magic people' into exile and displacing an ogre from his sovereign land. LORD OF BOOTY posted:no, it's a legitimate question with Bright, because the existence of actual orcs and elves and fairies and etc would bare minimum drastically change the way people look at fantasy stuff. like, I can think of like four separate ways the Shrek thing could be taken: it could be the orc equivalent of Tyler Perry stuff, a series that humans really kind of hate but orcs love because they get to see someone like them as a hero. or it could be, as K. Waste said, millenial Guess Who's Coming To Dinner. or it could be seen as an outright racist polemic about how orcs are buffoons who live in the swamp and eat poo poo. or it could be a situation like conflating different types of Asian people where orcs like the movie just fine, but get really annoyed when people assume Shrek is an orc or that they're ogres because orcs and ogres are distinct cultures. You're creating a false dichotomy between the "deep fantasy" implications of the film and the apparently just regular ideological framework of American reality. But people already believe in resurrections, and reincarnation, and ghosts, and mediums, and aliens and conspiracy theories and poo poo. Furthermore, American history is already an implicit justification for colonialism and white supremacy - there is already a "deep fantasy" and mythology that underscores the entire structure of the 'real world.' Bright is a black comic satire where there is no substantial difference between 'real world' oppression and the "deep fantasy" that we construct to rationalize it. The characters rolling with Smith using a racist slur is just belaboring a self-evident point, and it's not motivated by character. Why would the orc gang roll with it? It's not a bit for them, they get this bullshit from cradle to grave, and nobody is actually interested in engaging a cop in a debate over politically correct language. Snowglobe of Doom posted:I'm pretty sure that Smith just improv'ed the Shrek line and everyone on the production just went "Heh, that's funny" and didn't give a poo poo about the worldbuilding implications. Intent is not the same thing as meaning.
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 02:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 06:11 |
|
|
Also it just occurred to me that calling someone 'Shrek' might just be a fat joke in the Bright world. Will Smith posted:So I need you to take your fat Shrek-looking rear end back to your vehicle and drive the gently caress home to Fiona. A'ight?
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 03:01
|
|
|
i agree with the guy that said bright sucked
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 03:07
|
|
|
The centaur cop was cool
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 03:09
|
|
|
no amount of take-mining can make bright not a bad movie
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 03:14
|
|
|
FreudianSlippers posted:"The Irish are the black people of Europe" is partially true in that the concept of white people was invented to justify colonialism but the Irish were of course excluded with excuses ranging from them being pagan moon-worshippers to them actually being the descendants of some either Phoneticians settlers or Scythians and therefore actually "oriental". And it was in the service abroad in Asia and Africa, where Irish and Scots were over-represented in contrast to the English, where they were able to be viewed as white by the English.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 03:24
|
|
|
Gnome de plume posted:Bright wasn't good for many reasons, two being Three more: *the movie was just them running from one place to another with no real sense of direction *the bad guys were not vampires for some stupid reason despite looking and acting like they just stepped off the set of Blade *the elf lady suddenly revealing that she understood them and what was going on the entire time and could have solved everything right away but didn’t because ??? is just straight garbage writing But I’ll agree that the biggest issue is the lack of a Will Smith credits rap. Wild Wild West’s existence is legitimized solely because of the theme song (and subsequent Neil Cicierega remix). The same can’t be said for Bright.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 03:49
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:You're creating a false dichotomy between the "deep fantasy" implications of the film and the apparently just regular ideological framework of American reality. But people already believe in resurrections, and reincarnation, and ghosts, and mediums, and aliens and conspiracy theories and poo poo. Furthermore, American history is already an implicit justification for colonialism and white supremacy - there is already a "deep fantasy" and mythology that underscores the entire structure of the 'real world.' Bright is a black comic satire where there is no substantial difference between 'real world' oppression and the "deep fantasy" that we construct to rationalize it. there is a deep fantasy of American history, but it's very pointedly not the same deep fantasy of Bright's America, despite some similarities; as a result, the fact that the American culture depicted in Bright is nearly exactly the same feels somewhat lazy. you're somewhat misunderstanding my point if you think i'm drawing a dichotomy between the two, because my entire point is that the two are deeply intertwined and that Bright, by changing the fantasy, should arrive at a somewhat different ideological framework. (also, I didn't say the recipient of the slur should have rolled with it- I said the film should have rolled with the idea of Shrek carrying different meaning in this universe. otherwise, nothing is really meaningfully gained by having Smith bring it up.) e: also, gotta love the subtle implication that i'm ignorant of America's racial history because I thought Bright should have been weirder. 
WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Apr 27, 2018 |
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 03:56
|
|
|
Did Will Smith rap in 9 Pounds?
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 04:00
|
|
|
LORD OF BOOTY posted:there is a deep fantasy of American history, but it's very pointedly not the same deep fantasy of Bright's America, despite some similarities; as a result, the fact that the American culture depicted in Bright is nearly exactly the same feels somewhat lazy. you're somewhat misunderstanding my point if you think i'm drawing a dichotomy between the two, because my entire point is that the two are deeply intertwined and that Bright, by changing the fantasy, should arrive at a somewhat different ideological framework. Why should it arrive at a different ideological framework? If the two are deeply intertwined, then how has Bright changed the fantasy? Shrek clearly has a slightly more nuanced meaning in Bright than in the 'real world,' but this nuance is expressed intrinsically through setting and characterization. We already know that, like in Shrek, there is an oppressive social hierarchy in Bright. The film is already rolling, the ironic reference to Shrek is an example of what it's rolling with.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 04:12
|
|
|
Rirse posted:Did Will Smith rap in 9 Pounds? "Did a bad thing so I'm giving my eyes to build up trust, I used nothing but lies not just my eyes, also giving my heart I'm beyond redemption, can't get a fresh start"
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 04:16
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:Why should it arrive at a different ideological framework? If the two are deeply intertwined, then how has Bright changed the fantasy? come on dude really
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 04:32
|
|
|
Wandle Cax posted:The centaur cop was cool I still think they should make a spin-off series about centaur cop.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 05:06
|
|
|
Bright should have been fun and I didn't hate it, but there was definitely something hollow about it. Also the fairy lives matter thing, I didn't know how to take it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 05:35
|
|
|
Snowman_McK posted:"Did a bad thing so I'm giving my eyes Ha-ha (ha-ha)
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 06:03
|
|
|
The fairy lives matter line alone was enough to sink that movie. I’m honestly still shocked they left it in. It still would have been a bad movie without it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 07:08
|
|
|
I'm glad it's getting a sequel. I hope it's Landis-less
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 07:18
|
|
|
JBP posted:Also the fairy lives matter thing, I didn't know how to take it. Thats just such an incredibly insulting addition that i'm not surprised people found it substanceless.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 07:52
|
|
|
RC and Moon Pie posted:Mercury was still healthy in 1981/82. I was going to say, he looks a bit skinny to be Freddie Mercury at that time in his life. Pirate Jet posted:Consider that there is more to Atomic Blonde than just the action scenes. It’s a legitimately good espionage thriller even if you excise those. It was sold as a James Bond movie but turned out to be closer to a John Le Carré thriller with more fight scenes. Also, Shrek is Scottish, not Irish.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 08:21
|
|
|
FilthyImp posted:You take it as an incredibly tone deaf landmine lobbed in the promos for a film that boiled down to Alien Nation for the Westeros generation. Well, that's the problem: People are equating provocation with the absence of substance. Most fantasy films involve the generic precondition that there is, as Booty describes, a "deep fantasy" that suggests something far different from our own reality. But Bright categorically rejects this. The film is criticized because it isn't immersive enough, because it's explicitly not escapism. The movie opens with Will Smith as a cop murdering a homeless person and deriding social justice movements, and this is read as a mistake. This is not a problem of an absence of 'substance' or 'depth' or whatever. Critics of the film are themselves invested in an ideological fantasy, are preoccupied with imagining the thought processes and creative functioning of the filmmakers, rather than simply reading the narrative of the film, which gives expression to the setting, characterization, and themes in a blunt and straightforward manner.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 13:45
|
|
|
Then why bother making it an allegory if you're going to hew so close to reality anyway? If it were played straight it'd be way more impactful. But also then Will Smith probably wouldn't want to star in it. And it's certainly no Robocop level brutal satire.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 14:20
|
|
|
Ghost Leviathan posted:Then why bother making it an allegory if you're going to hew so close to reality anyway? Because Max Landis sucks as a screenwriter.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 14:37
|
|
|
Chicken Run 2 confirmed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 14:59
|
|
|
I have a lot of questions here, including “was I somehow not the only person to watch that movie?”
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 15:01
|
|
|
Pirate Jet posted:Consider that there is more to Atomic Blonde than just the action scenes. It’s a legitimately good espionage thriller even if you excise those. I felt like the movie was so set on unnecessary complications (interrogation scene bookending the movie, so you know the main character is never in danger, the indistinct filmmaking choices to keep an air of mystery, instead of letting it build naturally, the insubstantial love interest) that it deflated what might have been a good espionage flick. Too many tricks. Therefore what you can only hold onto is the action, which is some high tier poo poo. e: Young Freud posted:My big problem with it was the worldbuilding was interesting but lazy, where it's supposed to be modem LA in the United States of America, but also this deep fantasy world going back thousands of years. Like, there's this Lord Of The Rings backstory with the Dark Lord and Orc Jesus, but it's set in Los Angeles, named by Christian Catholic missionaries in the real world. Also, at one point Will Smith drops Shrek as an insult to an orc, but, while we get that as a joke, what does that mean in Bright? Is it like calling a black person Uncle Tom, or is Shrek viewed like Amos & Andy? ugh, I hate to cop to this, but as a kid I used to read some high fantasy/modern era type stuff. And the best way they got around having an elf and a motorcycle in the same chapter is by mashing the worlds relatively recently . Like the fantasy world only become known X amount of years. It takes care of alot of unnecessary questions. Never read Shadowrun but I guess it happened there too. Shageletic fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Apr 27, 2018 |
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 15:05
|
|
|
Barudak posted:I have a lot of questions here, including “was I somehow not the only person to watch that movie?” I sort of remember liking it as well
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 15:12
|
|
|
Atomic Blonde’s story isn’t really coherent because the movie’s more interested in creating cool vibes and neat tricks like cutting to a club when the Stigmata drums kick in. The storytelling suffers, but it was stylish enough that I didn’t care.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 15:13
|
|
|
Barudak posted:I have a lot of questions here, including “was I somehow not the only person to watch that movie?” I have friends who are way, way into this movie. They are beyond the moon with happiness right now.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 15:15
|
|
|
Chicken Run is kinda funny given it has not one but two male heroes who turn out to be blustering bullshitters whose main purpose is moral support for the women who actually do all the real work. Needs more class warfare metaphors.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 15:15
|
|
|
Chicken Run is great.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 15:17
|
|
|
Gremlins is looking at a reboot from the writer of the original, Chris Columbus https://twitter.com/zwgman/status/986280267097796611?s=21
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 15:25
|
|
|
Barudak posted:I have a lot of questions here, including “was I somehow not the only person to watch that movie?” BBC posted:Chicken Run is the highest-grossing stop-motion animation film of all-time - banking £161.3m at the box office. (Though I'd have thought Curse of the Were-Rabbit, which was 13 [!] years ago, had it beat.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 15:28
|
|
|
X-Ray Pecs posted:Gremlins is looking at a reboot from the writer of the original, Chris Columbus Nobody who dislikes Gremlins 2 should be able to touch this franchise. Columbus included. Would 100% prefer one of the big nerd directors working today get ahold of it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 15:32
|
|
|
Ghost Leviathan posted:Then why bother making it an allegory if you're going to hew so close to reality anyway? If it were played straight it'd be way more impactful. Nobody would find Bright at all impactful if it were more like most other fantasy films, people already engage with it as a lazy approximation of Lord of the Rings and Who Framed Roger Rabbit? and so on. The problem is that the film is clearly impactful, but the impact it leaves is subversive. The question effectively becomes "Why engage in subversion?" This is not a question of inherent quality, it's an ideological question. There is no reason why a fiction film shouldn't exploit the aesthetic and conventions of fantasy films in the context of social and political satire. The substance becomes not only to address social and political realities, but also their mythological substantiation. There is no reason to perturb ourselves with questions of 'necessity.' It's just a movie. Movies are not necessary, they are substantial insofar as we use them to engage with and interpret the world around us. With Bright specifically, we see this persistent dichotomy that is constructed in its reception between 'real problems' and the apparently insubstantial content of myth-making. But the world is not solely made up of 'real problems,' systemic injustice and its imaginary justification are inextricable. The psychological and ideological dimensions of myth-making and fantasy are just as real as police brutality. Fiction filmmaking merely presents a rich opportunity to explore the socio-political reality of fantasy. The 'world-building' meme functions as a misdirection from this potential: Subversion is already implicitly insubstantial because it's not sufficiently immersive. So we get into situations where many viewers are so preoccupied with potentials of the fantasy world that have nothing to do with the narrative that they don't even comprehend basic elements of the plot. For instance: Why do people want the wand if it'll destroy them if they touch it? But the film shows us on numerous occasions that, while the wand is quite dangerous, it can be handled safely by anyone who takes proper precautions in handling it, something that can be as simple as wearing a thin protection over your hand and holding it away from your body. More importantly, gangs such as Poison's want the wand because, in the world of Bright, the wand is not a MacGuffin - it is a particular manifestation of the magic that they see every day, but which more specifically buttresses the system of socio-economic inequality. Its intrinsic value is obvious despite the danger, and impoverished gangs who face violence and oppressive brutality every day are no strangers to living dangerously. The only people saying that there's no good reason for them to have it are exactly the sort of authorities that they have no reason to trust in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 15:37
|
|
|
Barudak posted:I have a lot of questions here, including “was I somehow not the only person to watch that movie?” The Europeans love Chicken Run. As well they should.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 15:40
|
|
|
X-Ray Pecs posted:Gremlins is looking at a reboot from the writer of the original, Chris Columbus
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 15:41
|
|
|
Samuel Clemens posted:The Europeans love Chicken Run. As well they should. It's a good-rear end movie. Especially given the time it came out, it was a breath of fresh air to have an animated film that wasn't a Disney epic or an irreverent pop-culture Shrekfest and instead was just a funny little adventure movie in a mundane modern setting.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 15:47
|
|
|
I liked all the Great Escape/Stalag 17 references in the movie.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 15:48
|
|
|
feedmyleg posted:Nobody who dislikes Gremlins 2 should be able to touch this franchise. Columbus included. Would 100% prefer one of the big nerd directors working today get ahold of it. Gremlins 2 is too pure and good for our world, it’s likely we’ll never get a movie like it again. God Bless Joe Dante for wasting investor money on his dream project.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 15:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 06:11 |
|
|
X-Ray Pecs posted:Gremlins 2 is too pure and good for our world, it’s likely we’ll never get a movie like it again. God Bless Joe Dante for wasting investor money on his dream project.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2018 15:53
|
|