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Charliegrs posted:Yeah for all his many, many faults if Trump actually blunders his way into achieving legit peace on the Korean peninsula then I hate to say it but he would totally deserve a Nobel.
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Apr 27, 2018 05:56
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Burt Buckle posted:I don’t know how Nobel prizes work, but wouldn’t the South Korean and Chinese leaders deserve more credit than Trump as it currently stands? Are Nobel prizes like super bowl rings where even the waterboy gets a ring? To give you a baseline, Henry Kissinger got a Nobel Peace Prize for his work in Vietnam
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Apr 27, 2018 06:01
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Kissinger and Sato Eisaku, great uncle of our pal Abe Shinzo and basically exactly the same political type as him. He got a Nobel for being antinuclear despite stationing nukes in Japan in secret and being a Cold Warrior hawk who closely supported Park's regime in Korea, the Vietnam War, and didn't want to normalize relations with the PRC until Nixon did it anyways and pulled the rug out from under him. History rhymes, etc
icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Apr 27, 2018 |
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Apr 27, 2018 06:34
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Obama got a Nobel for basically nothing.
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Apr 27, 2018 06:35
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He got a Nobel for being Not Bush.Sinteres posted:After they exchanged a few words at the beginning of the walk, I was wondering if Un realized he was going to get out of breath if they kept talking. A ~35 year old keeping pace with a senior citizen really isn't very impressive, but yeah he's pretty clearly not a small guy. I saw an analyst wondering if he was nervous because he seemed to be breathing heavily, but I think there's a simpler explanation. 
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Apr 27, 2018 06:39
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Burt Buckle posted:I feel that CNN is the most trusted name in news with regards to the Korean Peninsula. I don't.
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Apr 27, 2018 06:46
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Gorilla Salad posted:He got a Nobel for being Not Bush. I thought it was for the drone strikes?
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Apr 27, 2018 06:47
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If the Nobel ain't for hard science, it ain't for poo poo. Even then, be skeptical of the hard science ones.
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Apr 27, 2018 06:49
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kim jong-un is fat. he's fat!!!! hahaha!!!
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Apr 27, 2018 06:55
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I actually love this update BBC put out about the snack they got during lunchtime. Mainly the "we regret the error" part. Initially they got a cookie and were like "we got a snack in the shape of an intense looking....bear?" Which, it turned out to be just Ryan the Lion from Kakao friends who is pretty popular (kinda like I guess the Geico lizard or Hello Kitty). 
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Apr 27, 2018 06:57
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Burt Buckle posted:I don’t know how Nobel prizes work, but wouldn’t the South Korean and Chinese leaders deserve more credit than Trump as it currently stands? Are Nobel prizes like super bowl rings where even the waterboy gets a ring? Moon might deserve it more but Xi hasn't done poo poo.
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Apr 27, 2018 06:59
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remembering the time the european union got the nobel peace prize and loling
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Apr 27, 2018 07:00
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Charliegrs posted:Yeah for all his many, many faults if Trump actually blunders his way into achieving legit peace on the Korean peninsula then I hate to say it but he would totally deserve a Nobel. Well... Trump escalated the situation and did more to make NK finish their nuke program faster than anyone inside NK. Now that they have equal negotiating power, of course they are going back to talking. So... yay for Trump doing more for NK than every leader before has tried and failed to do?
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Apr 27, 2018 07:00
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kim jong-il should have gotten the 2000 peace prize with kim dae-jung, and kim jong-un should get one if moon jae-in does. that'd be way more controversial than giving one to trump, but it would be much more appropriate this summit and an eventual peace deal, if it happens, is an entirely korean affair. trump's biggest achievement is being too incompetent to screw it up
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Apr 27, 2018 07:05
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Burt Buckle posted:I don’t know how Nobel prizes work, but wouldn’t the South Korean and Chinese leaders deserve more credit than Trump as it currently stands? Are Nobel prizes like super bowl rings where even the waterboy gets a ring? I think Obama got a Nobel for just getting elected
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Apr 27, 2018 07:17
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Jolly Green Giant posted:Well... Trump escalated the situation and did more to make NK finish their nuke program faster than anyone inside NK. Now that they have equal negotiating power, of course they are going back to talking. So... yay for Trump doing more for NK than every leader before has tried and failed to do? Would make sense if previous US policy could be likened to deliberately keeping tensions on a knife edge so they can keep their bases near China indefinitely while both sides remain in the status quo, while escalating or de-escalating the situation causes the leaders to actually have to reach out for a way to solve the problem because it's clear the US is no longer a reliable actor in the situation.
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Apr 27, 2018 10:08
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Soooo short of a hilarious heel turn did the Korean war just actually end?
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Apr 27, 2018 10:24
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J33uk posted:Soooo short of a hilarious heel turn did the Korean war just actually end? They've pledged no more war 3 times before after big summits (1992, 2000 and 2008 IIRC). 4th times the charm?
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Apr 27, 2018 10:27
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Fojar38 posted:Personally I would give Trump a nobel in exchange for permanent peace on the Korean peninsula His extremely blunt take on foreign policy has been shockingly effective, mostly because no one can actually deal with the fact that he doesn't even pretend to deal with  and how much of a massive loving departure that is from previous US policy.
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Apr 27, 2018 11:45
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The benefit of having someone as stunningly stupid as Trump here is that whereas Clinton would probably have been cautious and suspicious about NK's claims, potentially undermining it, Trump is just smiling absently and thinking about how bigly he succeeded in solving Korean politics forever.
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Apr 27, 2018 12:36
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https://twitter.com/wideasleepnima/status/989724131506581504?s=21 https://twitter.com/EoinHiggins_/status/989676223935770627 https://twitter.com/TimothyS/status/989677012439781376 (US General Curtis LeMay estimated 20% of North Korea's population was killed during the war) https://twitter.com/SecDef19/status/989837411038519297 https://twitter.com/christineahn/status/989771550692859904
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Apr 27, 2018 14:45
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Chomskyan posted:https://twitter.com/wideasleepnima/status/989724131506581504?s=21 It really is a testament to the power of propaganda, even down to the level of high school history textbooks, that LeMay isn’t remembered as one of the great monsters of the 20th century.
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Apr 27, 2018 15:18
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Nucleic Acids posted:It really is a testament to the power of propaganda, even down to the level of high school history textbooks, that LeMay isn’t remembered as one of the great monsters of the 20th century.
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Apr 27, 2018 15:43
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Nucleic Acids posted:It really is a testament to the power of propaganda, even down to the level of high school history textbooks, that LeMay isn’t remembered as one of the great monsters of the 20th century. Nah.
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Apr 27, 2018 15:45
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Rent-A-Cop posted:His successor at SAC was way crazier. You weren't kidding...
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Apr 27, 2018 16:17
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Rent-A-Cop posted:His successor at SAC was way crazier. Yeah... quote:The National Security Archive commentary reports that Shoup asked USAF/SAC Commander Thomas Power "...what would happen if Beijing was not fighting; was there an option to leave Chinese targets out of the attack plan?" Power was reported to have said that he hoped no one would think of that "because it would really screw up the plan"—that is, the plan was supposed to be executed as a whole. quote:SIOP-62 included the virtual obliteration of the tiny country of Albania because within its borders sat huge Soviet air-defense radar, which had to be taken out with high assurance. Power smiled at Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara and said with a mock straight face: “Well, Mr. Secretary, I hope you don’t have any friends or relations in Albania, because we are just going to have to wipe it out.” quote:When RAND proposed a counterforce strategy, which would require SAC to restrain itself from striking Soviet cities at the beginning of a war, Power countered with: "Restraint? Why are you so concerned with saving their lives? The whole idea is to kill the bastards. At the end of the war if there are two Americans and one Russian left alive, we win!" Professor William Kaufmann from the RAND Corporation, losing his patience, noted: “Well, you’d better make sure that they're a man and a woman.” At that point, Power stalked out of the room. quote:Having been briefed by another famous member of the RAND Corporation, Herman Kahn, on the genetic effects of nuclear weapons, Power replied: “You know, it’s not yet been proved to me that two heads aren’t better than one.” ...it's kind of a miracle we survived the 60s, actually.
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Apr 27, 2018 16:36
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Thomas Power sounds like a pretty saucy fellow.
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Apr 27, 2018 16:55
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I'd be really curious to know how North Korean internal media is dealing with all of this, especially how they're presenting Moon.
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Apr 27, 2018 17:05
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Nucleic Acids posted:It really is a testament to the power of propaganda, even down to the level of high school history textbooks, that LeMay isn’t remembered as one of the great monsters of the 20th century. Are we supposed to forget that North Korea literally invaded South Korea with the intent of conquest, not unlike Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany had invaded their neighbors a decade prior? Kim Il-Sung rightfully bears most of the responsibility, not the people who reacted to his aggression.
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Apr 27, 2018 17:40
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Fojar38 posted:Are we supposed to forget that North Korea literally invaded South Korea with the intent of conquest, not unlike Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany had invaded their neighbors a decade prior? North Korea attempted to liberate the Korean Peninsula from foreign imperialists. Let’s not forget that South Korea was a puppet regime run by imperial Japanese collaborationists and their American cronies.
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Apr 27, 2018 17:47
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Fojar38 posted:Are we supposed to forget that North Korea literally invaded South Korea with the intent of conquest, not unlike Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany had invaded their neighbors a decade prior? So how do you feel about the US Civil War?
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Apr 27, 2018 17:51
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Peven Stan posted:North Korea attempted to liberate the Korean Peninsula from foreign imperialists. No they didn't.
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Apr 27, 2018 18:05
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I think he's just trolling, we've had this argument in the thread before and he even participated in it iirc. That said while I agree with Tim Shorrock's sentiment, pushing 3 million dead in North Korea during the war uncritically is a bit odd in 2018, I think there've been much more thorough studies since LeMay's off the cuff estimate back then and they universally run way lower.
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Apr 27, 2018 18:05
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Fojar38 posted:Are we supposed to forget that North Korea literally invaded South Korea with the intent of conquest, not unlike Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany had invaded their neighbors a decade prior? Well, it was rather unlike Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan, but they certainly did launch the invasion. One of the reasons the US didn’t send tons of heavy arms and equipment to the South Korean armed forces before the war: we kinda feared they might do the same going north.
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Apr 27, 2018 19:00
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Fojar38 posted:Are we supposed to forget that North Korea literally invaded South Korea with the intent of conquest, not unlike Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany had invaded their neighbors a decade prior? Lmao, South Korea was basically a US colony run by former Japanese collaborators. The US and the former imperial government had already massacred over 100,000 people in the south by the time Kim Il-sung "invaded" (except not really, because you can't invade your own country)
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Apr 27, 2018 19:22
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mlmp08 posted:One of the reasons the US didn’t send tons of heavy arms and equipment to the South Korean armed forces before the war: we kinda feared they might do the same going north. It wasn't an unfounded fear at all even, Syngman Rhee absolutely would have done. He was the main voice towards keeping the war going by the end and vehemently objected to the armistice; he basically wanted reunification at any cost.
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Apr 27, 2018 19:28
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What a racist perspective to say that South Korea was merely an occupied colony rather than its own nation.
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Apr 27, 2018 19:29
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Fojar38 posted:Personally I would give Trump a nobel in exchange for permanent peace on the Korean peninsula If they don't get any concessions or changes from NK other than the promise that they won't nuke anyone, how is it effectively a change from the status quo since the ceasefire? There's always just been a fear that NK will break the ceasefire. There's nothing stopping them from just starting a new war.
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Apr 27, 2018 19:34
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If they actually do end the war then there'll be no pretense for them to have such massive militaries anymore, and dialing back on that removes a huge amount of the tension and could pave the way for all sorts of other better things. Right now yeah it could all just go back to how it was in an instant, but it's the first time things have seemingly been on the right track for more than a decade and the situation has changed significantly in that time too. It could all end up being nothing, but there's genuine reason to be optimistic.
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Apr 27, 2018 19:43
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mlmp08 posted:What a racist perspective to say that South Korea was merely an occupied colony rather than its own nation. Yeah pointing out that SK was an illegitimate state run by former imperial Japanese administrators is racist, sounds like liberal idpol in a nutshell
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Apr 27, 2018 19:46
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