D&D NEXT: Infinite Posts of the Abyss

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mango sentinel: Jan 5, 2001; by sebmojo

Pollyanna posted:

More like Dark Souls am I right

Awesome but badly underused.

Isn't it just bog-standard medieval Europe?

Greyhawk is actually a huge kitchen sink setting like Forgotten Realms with its own insane, convoluted (publishing and in-universe) history. There's a lot of stuff going on, but thanks to Baldur's Gate and WotC, it's mostly only old grognards with serious affection or even knowledge of the setting.

# ? Apr 28, 2018 00:44

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# ? May 30, 2024 08:51

Toebone: Jul 1, 2002; Start remembering what you hear.

Thanks everyone. They should make more spelljammer stuff I want to fly in a magic space ship.

# ? Apr 28, 2018 01:29

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Anyone have examples of exemplary modules for spelljammer, planescape, and/or dark sun? All of them sound interesting but It's hard for me to imagine how these different settings change adventuring without seeing examples and I think modules would help. I've played PS:T for what it's worth but I don't know how much plane hopping a typical party might do.

# ? Apr 28, 2018 01:35

MonsterEnvy: Feb 4, 2012; Shocked I tell you

Toebone posted:

Thanks everyone. They should make more spelljammer stuff I want to fly in a magic space ship.

They have made some recent hints at Spelljammer. One of the Spelljammer races the Giff's art was even previewed.

# ? Apr 28, 2018 01:44

Lurdiak: Feb 26, 2006; I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

Anyone have examples of exemplary modules for spelljammer, planescape, and/or dark sun? All of them sound interesting but It's hard for me to imagine how these different settings change adventuring without seeing examples and I think modules would help. I've played PS:T for what it's worth but I don't know how much plane hopping a typical party might do.

The original Planescape setting book is available on drivethrurpg in pdf format. The setting's been through some changes since that iteration, mostly changing Sigil's political hierarchy to be less focused on the factions, but it's a pretty good primer with really neat art.

I like the 4e setting book for Dark Sun but I don't know if it's particularly good compared to any of the previously published ones.

# ? Apr 28, 2018 01:44

MonsterEnvy: Feb 4, 2012; Shocked I tell you

Lurdiak posted:

The original Planescape setting book is available on drivethrurpg in pdf format. The setting's been through some changes since that iteration, mostly changing Sigil's political hierarchy to be less focused on the factions, but it's a pretty good primer with really neat art.

I still love that picture of the Lady of Pain.

Planescape Torment is also really good.

I also find it personally amusing that two of Sigil's major power players are a Fox with a Snidely Whiplash Mustache and a Fox in a Dress.

MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Apr 28, 2018

# ? Apr 28, 2018 01:45

KingKalamari: Aug 24, 2007; Fuzzy dice, bongos in the back
My ship of love is ready to attack

Y'all forgot Mystara/The Known World which was the official setting for basic D&D and was later adapted for second edition. It was very much of the fantasy kitchen sink mold but gradually became bugfuck insane in the best way possible because people kept just adding poo poo to it, including the single largest collection of PC races of pretty much any setting. One of the big defining features was that traditional D&D deities were replaced with Immortals: Mortal beings who had ascended to god-like levels which the Players could end up becoming if they played a long enough campaign.

# ? Apr 28, 2018 02:57

SettingSun: Aug 10, 2013

Lurdiak posted:

I like the 4e setting book for Dark Sun but I don't know if it's particularly good compared to any of the previously published ones.

4e's Dark Sun supplement is really good. There was a lot of worry before it was released that they would excise a lot of the bleakest parts of the original setting to cater to the superheroism that 4e PCs typically are. Like the cannibalistic halflings and the rampant slavery but nope, they left that poo poo in. And it worked. It is a dark, harsh setting and I goddamn love it.

# ? Apr 28, 2018 07:42

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

It's worth mentioning that Greyhawk is a proper 70s fantasy kitchen sink, with yeah sure have guns and psychic powers and guns that shoot psychic powers and gently caress it why not let's crash a spaceship into it.

# ? Apr 28, 2018 08:06

PublicOpinion: Oct 21, 2010; Her style is new but the face is the same as it was so long ago...

I forget, doesn't Greyhawk have a deity that's just a cowboy, six-shooters included?

# ? Apr 28, 2018 08:36

Blockhouse: Sep 7, 2014; You Win!

PublicOpinion posted:

I forget, doesn't Greyhawk have a deity that's just a cowboy, six-shooters included?

Based on a buddy of Gygax's who helped TSR get on his feet and wanted to play a cowboy

Dude died suddenly a few years later and Gygax made his character a god.

# ? Apr 28, 2018 08:38

Nehru the Damaja: May 20, 2005

Somebody fill me in here about what prompted several mentions of philosophy for Planescape. All I really know about it is from maybe the first third of Torment.

# ? Apr 28, 2018 08:47

mango sentinel: Jan 5, 2001; by sebmojo

Nehru the Damaja posted:

Somebody fill me in here about what prompted several mentions of philosophy for Planescape. All I really know about it is from maybe the first third of Torment.

Belief is power in Planescape. All of the major factions are less political bodies and more collections of people with the same ontological outlook. That setting is (literally) held together by philosophy.

Athar reject divinity and seek to know what if anything actually drives the universe, since gods are really just immensely powerful mortals. Godsmen believe that a being's soul is forged over and over again through experience and reincarnation, meaning any being can attain godhood (oddly in a form of agreement with the Athar.) Dustmen are ultimate nihilists (Buddhists?) that believe life as we know it is a lie and death is the true state of being, reincarnation is punishment until one can embrace and truly achieve Death. Doomguard are a different breed of nihilists, spearheading the efforts of entropy and giving things the push they need to finally fall apart.

There's a ton more factions and a lot of overlap between them in ideal (though maybe not angle of approach) but it's all built around existential stuff because you're in a place where an existential crisis might render you inextant.

mango sentinel fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Apr 28, 2018

# ? Apr 28, 2018 08:58

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

Anyone have examples of exemplary modules - planescape, - ? All of them sound interesting but It's hard for me to imagine how these different settings change adventuring without seeing examples and I think modules would help. I've played PS:T for what it's worth but I don't know how much plane hopping a typical party might do.

I havent looked through these in a long while, but:

"The Great Modron March" and "Dead Gods" are interesting (and related). Actual spoiler: The first one is effected by, and the second one deals directly with, the return of no-longer-live-god-now-live-again Orcus. This was a big deal when these came out. These have some pretty great plot devices, including a game-within-the-game using temporary PCs. (If you played PST think sensorium stone type effect.)
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17302/The-Great-Modron-March-2e
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17297/Dead-Gods-2e

"Harbinger House" and "Something Wild" are both kinda-mysteries that deal with a decent amount of Sigil style politicking and deal-sussing.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17277/Harbinger-House-2e
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17279/Something-Wild-2e

"The Deva Spark" is kind of a ethics/morality trip where the players end up playing good-angel/bad-angel to decide out how some things play out between some very powerful creatures.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17271/The-Deva-Spark-2e

"In the Abyss" well, even demons need car insurance.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17270/In-the-Abyss-2e

One thing about most PS adventures:

# ? Apr 28, 2018 09:26

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Nehru the Damaja posted:

Somebody fill me in here about what prompted several mentions of philosophy for Planescape. All I really know about it is from maybe the first third of Torment.

Philosophy can structure (and influence) belief, and belief can reshape what is real.

The fundamental "magnets" of beliefs are the planes of the Great Ring (the "alignment planes"), and a heavy enough dose of a set of beliefs/conduct/worship/etc can bring a place (or person) closer (even literally) to the corresponding position on the Great Ring.

This is why a freedom loving ranger might end up in The Happy Hunting Grounds when they die, but a conniving legalist lawyer would end up in Baator. Those are the places that draw them in. (Skipping gods/worship for now.)

Skipping some of the existential stuff, this is the core reason for a lot of the "big powers" politicking and seeking worshippers and not just stomping around destroying everything. Having things/creatures "believe right" is very important to keeping your turf safe.

Im being very simplistic, but I think this gets the general idea across.

Like:

kidkissinger posted:

Shut the gently caress up and tell me about awesome demon fights

Well to be brief:
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/121100/Faces-of-Evil-The-Fiends-2e
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17281/Hellbound--The-Blood-War-2e

This has a bunch of lore so I dont have to try:
http://www.rilmani.org/timaresh/Blood_War

quote:

There is no question that the Blood War is the most significant event on the Planes; having gone on since the dawning days of sentience, this battle for the supremacy of Law or Chaos has marked not only the Lower Planes, but the whole of the multiverse for eons on end, seemingly never-ending in its bloodshed and violence. No one can walk the planes for long before encountering something, somewhere, or someone incontrovertibly touched by the Blood War, and hardly ever the better for it.

Involved Parties

The Blood War is almost entirely a fight between the baatezu of Baator and the tanar'ri of the Abyss, a balance between the perfect obedience of the baatezu and the tremendous numbers of the tanar'ri; their first battles marked the beginning of the war, and every major event in its history has been at the hands of one or the other. Thousands upon thousands of each fiend are spawned to serve as nothing but cannon fodder for the gristmills that are the front lines of the Blood War. On the side of the baatezu, the Blood War is largely run by the Dark Eight, a collection of eight pit fiends dating back to the original fall. Once soldiers of Asmodeus himself, today they are charged with leading the forces of the baatezu in battle, arranging for materiel and intelligence support, handling diplomatic military arrangements with outside organizations, and any other related duties that may fall under the purview of the War. The tanar'ri of course have no such structure, but some Abyssal Lords have more direct interest in the Blood War than others. Pazuzu, Graz'zt, Alzrius, Lissa'aere, and Vucarik are amongst those known to have the greatest interest in the War, though it's rare the Lord with absolutely no stake in it whatsoever; somewhat surprisingly, though, and in contrast to Asmodeus, Demogorgon indeed does have little to no interest in the War, perhaps having gained his fill in service to the Queen of Chaos long ago. And while not all tanar'ri have spent time on the battlefields, those chosen for it must fight or face the wrath of the molydei, who are always hunting for deserters, or simply travelers that can be impressed into the Abyssal ranks. Of course, while these two fiendish kinds may comprise the majority of forces on the Blood War battlefields, there are more than a few others that involve themselves for their own varied reasons.

Chief among these are the yugoloth, the fiends of the Grey Waste. Mercenaries for hire by either side, they offer their talents in combat, infiltration, or tactical planning to the highest bidder, their long-practiced skills often turning the tide one way or the other. They seem to have no allegiance but their own, perfectly willing to serve which ever side suits them so long as the price is right. Not always something as simple as gold or gems, but arcane knowledge, prisoners, any one of a variety of opportunities that they find suitable for the task requested. Some even say that the Blood War persists by their hand, the slaughter guided towards one direction or another according to their hidden desires towards some unknown end; while the same has been said about nearly every planar event of any significance since the dawn of history, the far more blatant involvement in the Blood War leads many to wonder if in this situation it might not be true.

A surprise to some, the modrons are in fact a significant force in the Blood War as well, aiding the baatezu in demonstrating the ultimate supremacy of Law. Though not precisely allied with the baatezu per se, Primus has no desire to see chaos win out to any degree; as such, he has committed to the Blood War efforts the Army of the Blood War, a force nearly one million modrons strong, separate from the Mechanus military heirarchy. While this force does occasionally cooperate or coordinate with baatezu actions, far more commonly they are simply sent out against front-line tanar'ri strongholds or forces, fighting alongside baatezu but not entirely with them.

The celestials, however � contrary to the thoughts of many Primes � most commonly keep far away from the Blood War. There are some exceptions, the renown Sword of Vengeance being one of the most prominent such, but since both the betrayal of the eladrin by the tanar'ri during the Tanar'ri Rebellion (resulting in the Sorrow of Androlynne) and the utter failure of the Celestial Invasion to do any more than turn the full force of both fiendish armies against their might, the result of the Celestial Schism that followed was to leave the forces of Good hesitant to step in, for the large part relieved that the War at least keeps both fiendish kinds distracted from other matters that might have their attention otherwise. The end result of the Celestial Invasion was enough to bring even the highest of celestials the awareness of what a focused fiendish army could truly do without the Blood War to draw its ire. Rumors fly that there may even be sects amongst the celestial kinds that go so far as to encourage the Blood War through arms trade or information warfare, though such claims are solidly dismissed as ludicrous whenever brought before the celestials.

Though many may be tempted to, one cannot ignore the impact of the thousands and thousands of mortal mercenaries hired by both sides on the Blood War. While in terms of pure numbers these men and women are hardly noticeable against the backdrop of warfare, mortal contribution has long been marked as providing the most unexpected developments in the War since its earliest day, even into recent years. Further, the Blood War remains the top employer of mercenary force across the planes, and has since the first mortals stepped upon it, despite the immense mortality rates and the trauma such battles as are found in the War can inflict. This has had quite the impact on mercenary companies upon the planes, with nearly all having to account for it outright in one fashion or another: whether it be full-on devotion to one side or another, open hiring by either baatezu or tanar'ri if the pay is good, assignments on a person-by-person basis, or any number of such schemes. And of course, more than a few such companies have even taken hard lines against Blood War employment despite the lucrative contracts it brings, if only that they don't lose employees faster than they can acquire them.

Finally, there are minor contributions or involvement by nearly every other significant culture upon the planes. The slaadi, perhaps surprisingly, are rarely involved as they are just as likely to strike against tanar'ri as baatezu should the whim strike, their innate individuality ironically giving most of them no great devotion to chaos as a philosophy; as a result, the tanar'ri hesitantly call upon them thanks to this innate unreliability. The rilmani grow involved only when the balance seems to be tipping too far in one direction or another, but the Blood War is such a wide-ranging and embroiled conflict that even they at times have trouble seeing the balance held at any given time; thus, it's rare to see a rilmani even at a significant Blood War event. And the more minor planar peoples � the gehreleth, the bladelings, the githzerai and githyanki, etc. � while certainly fighting from time to time (often in either a general self-defense or a mercenary role), rarely have any consistent or notable devotion to the War.

...

[more]

http://www.rilmani.org/timaresh/Celestial_Schism

quote:

As one of the first major divides between celestials, this event is quite prominent in the histories of both the archons and eladrins, though the guardinals to this day still attempt to play down its after effects.

In the distant past, a vast celestial army was formed to wash over the lower planes, and wipe out every trace of the fiends from existence. It failed drastically, resulting in one of the only recorded baatezu/tanar'ri allegiances (if a very temporary one) in order to repel the attack. Afterwards, when the armies retreated back to their home plane, debates began on alternate tactics to use against these foes. These debates soon grew quite heated, quickly reaching the level of a shouting match, and on occasion even outright violence as representatives of one side or another grew increasingly aggravated at the lack of progress.

Overall, out of all the positions expressed at these debates, three were most prominent.

Some wished to face both forces simultaneously, but in small surgical strikes over an extended period, with the intent to be to whittle down both armies and reduce the overall threat without posing enough of a threat to form a new fiendish allegiance. Most of those holding this view tended to be archons.
Some wished to marshal forces against a single side in an erstwhile "allegiance" (though certainly no formal agreement) until it was wiped out or all but, at which point focus could be shifted to the other side. Most of those holding this view tended to be eladrin, though they were quite well divided as to which kind to focus on first � some thought ending the tyranny of the baatezu as quickly as possible to be the greatest good, while others wished vengeance against the tanar'ri for Androlynne.
The remainder wished to leave the whole lot alone and not risk disrupting the balance of the Blood War, as with their attentions so wholly focused on one another, their influence was confined to their home planes far more than it was likely to be otherwise. Celestials expressing this view were close to evenly divided, including many simply tired of war and/or wishing their attentions shifted to more directly beneficent pursuits.

In the end, it was the latter that won out, as those expressing the first two views simply could not come to any sort of compromise. However, the ill will spawned by these debates has been quite tenacious; while many celestials amongst both the archons and the eladrins have little bad to say about their opposing counterparts, others (especially those with long memories) hold a strong distaste for the other side that refuses to be healed.

quote:

[more]

...

Modern Era

Following the failure of the truce of Ghoresh, the Blood War returned much as it had been, though Prime contact began to grow into even greater prominence. In this time some of the most significant Prime civilizations of the so-called Modern Era were at their peaks, including many still well-known today: Netheril, the Suel Imperium, and the Thri'Kreen and Al'Malamut Empires being among the most written-on. With them and their arcane experimentations came a new wave of mortal exploration and a vast increase in summonings, deals, and planar contact in general. Though the invigoration brought about by new blood wasn't nearly as all-encompassing as it was previously, it did bring with it new mercenary blood not nearly as weary, as well as a heightened sense of morale on both fronts that their efforts may be showing some success by bringing new mortals to their causes.

Over the centuries, these new mortals settled throughout the planes, forming new planar populations, while the Blood War pressed on. As always, little to no progress was achieved by either side, the two forces evenly matched. Then, in a surprise to all, a significant blow was struck: the death of XXXXXX, self-proclaimed lord of the undead, not by any baatezu force but rather by the demigoddess Kiaransalee; such a thorough attempt at purging him from existence that his very name was removed from every record throughout all reality. One of the three most significant Abyssal Lords in the entire plane, his armies of undead were considered a key backbone to Blood War efforts, and with his death these armies were lost in but an instant, either de-animated or released of their own accord. The tanar'ri scrambled to make up ground, unsure whether to seek some means of restoring XXXXXX or to call upon Kiaransalee's offer to replace the forces; by then, Lolth had herself held some significant forces in play in the Blood War, and few were eager to risk her ill will in such a dark time. Other planar forces were simply not an option, far too risky to make up such slack. Yes, surely the tanar'ri numbers could make up the difference eventually, but losses were already beginning.

They found aid, however, in an unexpected ally. The Dustmen, themselves transient allies of XXXXXX, offered their own fairly considerable necromantic services in his name. Here was an organization with no prior bounds to the Blood War, and with fairly considerable resources, that had slipped entirely under the glance of the tanar'ri. And so their eyes were first opened to the factions of Sigil and the potential they held. Indeed accepting the aid of the Dustmen, they began seeking contact with the other factions that seemed to hold common purpose with them. Within mere years, the baatezu followed suit, Bel in particular quick to solidify connections. The Sign of One and Mercykillers aiding the baatezu, the Revolutionary League and Fated aiding the tanar'ri, and the Doomguard offering their knowledge to both. Bringing far greater strength and ambition to both sides, sending the Blood War surging further out into the planes than it had been recorded in ages, at times even touching upon the Upper-side regions of the Outlands. And so the War as it is today stands, far more intertwined with mortals than it ever had been.
Current State

While today the majority of fighting occurs on Carceri, Gehenna, and Grey Waste, it's hard to determine any specific front lines due to the fluctuating nature both of planar travel and of the armies themselves. Still, it is rare that any significant combat happens outside these three planes, or even outside Othrys, Khalas, and Oinos.

As of Hashkar 127, the tanar'ri look to be gaining ground on the baatezu, thanks in large part to the recently completed ships of chaos constructed by a joint tanar'ri/Doomguard venture. These massive vessels, while not unstoppable, have proven quite near to such in most every baatezu encounter yet recorded. This advantage is sure not to last long, of course, as none does, but it does mark a possible new direction for the War to come, the institution of constructs and artifice not merely for arms or soldiers, but true war engines in the fiendish arsenals. Recent rumor has it that the War may reach a new pitch in recent days, perhaps brought about by the pure existence of these massive weapons of war; there's word spreading of baatezu seeking aid for their own battles in the most unlikely of places: the Beastlands. While appearances of the baatezu in the Beastlands have increased sharply in recent months, many are eager to see what precisely this rash of sightings bodes for the War.

Basically The Blood War has permeated almost every part of DnD since they first wrote "demon" and "devil" in a monster book. It just didnt have a name until Planescape.

# ? Apr 28, 2018 09:50

Razorwired: Dec 7, 2008; It's about to start!

One thing that's actually interesting about Greyhawk is, as was mentioned, a lot of the more famous characters and early immortalized PCs come from there. For instance named spells like Melf's Acid Arrow and Bigby's X Hand were invented by Greyhawk Wizards. Mordenkainen was Gygax's main. Bigby was his charmed evil henchman who preceded Rigby, Digby, Zigby and a few others. Melf was a Male Elf and when he died he was replaced by Nelf who was replaced by Oelf.

# ? Apr 28, 2018 10:04

Elysiume: Aug 13, 2009; Alone, she fights.

Razorwired posted:

Mordenkainen was Gygax's main.

Huh. Never knew that. Or the rest of it, but this is more surprising to me.

# ? Apr 28, 2018 10:08

Elfgames: Sep 11, 2011; Fun Shoe

FRINGE posted:

One thing about most PS adventures:

yeah but this is D&D and that's pretty much completely untrue

# ? Apr 28, 2018 10:13

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Elysiume posted:

Huh. Never knew that. Or the rest of it, but this is more surprising to me.

When youre the Big Man you get to live in a Magnificent Mansion.

Little pleb Leomund only got a Tiny Hut.

# ? Apr 28, 2018 10:16

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Elfgames posted:

yeah but this is D&D and that's pretty much completely untrue

Ok, go ahead and line up the Modron March on your battle squares and fight it I guess.

They just were not written for that. :shrug:

# ? Apr 28, 2018 10:18

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

FRINGE posted:

Ok, go ahead and line up the Modron March on your battle squares and fight it I guess.

They just were not written for that.

I too it to mean that D&D is a system for finding something and fighting it with some RP stuff tacked on, so an RP-heavy setting where fighting is discouraged is actively fighting against the strengths of the system (such as they are). And also the players, who are going to want to use all their shiny murder based abilities on things and if you tell them not to they will (rightly) get confused and pissy.

I'd love to play planescape in something not d20 with actual social mechanics.

# ? Apr 28, 2018 10:28

Elector_Nerdlingen: Sep 27, 2004

FRINGE posted:

Ok, go ahead and line up the Modron March on your battle squares and fight it I guess.

They just were not written for that.

Splicer posted:

He means (I think) that D&D is a system for finding something and fighting it with some RP stuff tacked on, so an RP-heavy setting where fighting is discouraged is actively fighting against the strengths of the system (such as they are).

Yeah, the single worst thing about Planescape is that it's attached to D&D, which is still a game about sword fights.

Like, Planescape's my very favorite D&D setting and there's some great D&D poo poo you can do in it, but the setting deserves to be attached to something with more social/political/philosophical mechanics than D&D.

Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 10:38 on Apr 28, 2018

# ? Apr 28, 2018 10:35

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Thats fair, it does depend entirely on "DM does a shitload of work" compared to dungeon crawls, but if you find someone that is up for it (or uses one of the written modules), and gets their players onboard, its great.

My bias is that Ive never played any RPG (so far, with anyone Ive known) that didnt ultimately rely on "GM does a shitload of work" in order to make it good. The more boardgame-like something is the less it needs that, but that ends up being pretty different from what I know/have seen. (I also have never gotten to play one of the actual big rpg/boardgame sets, but they look fun.)

# ? Apr 28, 2018 12:02

Pollyanna: Mar 5, 2005; Milk's on them.

As I understand it, there�s no reason you can�t run Planescape in a different system, like PbtA or FitD. It�s just a setting, right? You could even run Forgotten Realms in Dungeon World if you wanted to.

# ? Apr 28, 2018 12:32

Elector_Nerdlingen: Sep 27, 2004

Pollyanna posted:

As I understand it, there�s no reason you can�t run Planescape in a different system, like PbtA or FitD. It�s just a setting, right?

It'd suit FATE pretty well, I think. A Sigil playbook for Fiasco could also produce an amazing session.

Pollyanna posted:

You could even run Forgotten Realms in Dungeon World if you wanted to.

I'm not sure you could do that with an average group (ie, a group not entirely made up of FR fans) and end up with something that was recognizably Forgotten Realms. I mean, a giant, detailed setting is the opposite of what you're supposed to do with DW.

That said, it might work with Planescape simply because so much PS stuff is presented as "Might be true, might not be, nobody knows why, and the last guy who thought about it too hard mysteriously disappeared, but this is what seems to be going on..."

e: I need to go look, but I remember a bunch of planescape adventure hooks/ideas being presented similarly to DW Fronts - like "these guys are the main players, this is their game, if nobody interferes then X is likely to gradually happen, followed by Y a little bit faster and then Z happening very quickly as the whole thing goes to (maybe literal, maybe figurative) hell".

Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Apr 28, 2018

# ? Apr 28, 2018 13:13

Firstborn: Oct 14, 2012; i'm the heckin best
yeah
yeah
yeah
frig all the rest

Relentless posted:

There's a whole cowboys and indians thing going on between a elf warrior (raider/mercenary) country on the mainland being right next to the nomadic halflings on dinosaurs that plays really well for wild west type stories, for instance.

Could you please point to this? Any published modules, one shots, or anything that I should look into? I know of Eberron, but robot people made me avoid it. It was the default setting of that 3.5 D&D MMO.

# ? Apr 28, 2018 13:25

Pollyanna: Mar 5, 2005; Milk's on them.

AlphaDog posted:

I'm not sure you could do that with an average group (ie, a group not entirely made up of FR fans) and end up with something that was recognizably Forgotten Realms. I mean, a giant, detailed setting is the opposite of what you're supposed to do with DW.

I mean, in terms of world-building, sure. But there's nothing that stops you from playing to find out how you iterate on the established world of Forgotten Realms, and you can always take the TAZ approach of ignoring or rewriting stuff you don't want from it.

# ? Apr 28, 2018 13:52

Elector_Nerdlingen: Sep 27, 2004

Pollyanna posted:

...there's nothing that stops you from playing to find out how you iterate on the established world...

Except for a lack of the knowledge of the established world you'd need in order to make a game recognizably set in it.

# ? Apr 28, 2018 14:08

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

Are we talking about �let�s play X in Y� as the pitch to players, or a setting book as inspiration and backstop for a GM?

# ? Apr 28, 2018 14:21

thefakenews: Oct 20, 2012

AlphaDog posted:

It'd suit FATE pretty well, I think. A Sigil playbook for Fiasco could also produce an amazing session.

There's always Sig: The City Between, which is just off-brand Planescape. I'm pretty confident you could put back all the serial numbers Sig files off. I haven't actually got to play it yet, but it seems like it does a reasonable job.

# ? Apr 28, 2018 14:30

Relentless: Sep 22, 2007; It's a perfect day for some mayhem!

Firstborn posted:

Could you please point to this? Any published modules, one shots, or anything that I should look into? I know of Eberron, but robot people made me avoid it. It was the default setting of that 3.5 D&D MMO.

It's not explicitly wild west... But the campaign book lays out the tribal politics of the halflings and the imperialistic nature of the valenar elves, that they're hostile and the elves are regularly raiding and sets a desert with a couple of forts between them. The elves are explicitly great at mounted horse combat, and the halflings ride dinosaurs.

You could easily fit a conquistador thing or a Mongol horde thing here too. Or a halfling wizard Moses telling the elves to let his people go.

Basically it's ripe for any indigenous people vs "civilized" invader story you want to tell.

# ? Apr 28, 2018 15:42

Pollyanna: Mar 5, 2005; Milk's on them.

AlphaDog posted:

Except for a lack of the knowledge of the established world you'd need in order to make a game recognizably set in it.

Well yeah, that's where the sourcebook for the setting comes in. You just don't have to use it with a particular system. Right?

Subjunctive posted:

Are we talking about �let�s play X in Y� as the pitch to players, or a setting book as inspiration and backstop for a GM?

Could be either, could be "hey X was cool and we want to check it out but we mostly play Y system", or "hey I got an idea for a setting in Y system with influence from X".

Firstborn posted:

I know of Eberron, but robot people made me avoid it.

Why?

# ? Apr 28, 2018 15:59

Razorwired: Dec 7, 2008; It's about to start!

Warforged and Dragonborn REALLY turn some nerds off for some reason. In 4e grogs claimed it was because those options were too Powergamey but that crowd also defaults to Variant Human so :iiam:

# ? Apr 28, 2018 16:11

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Razorwired posted:

Warforged and Dragonborn REALLY turn some nerds off for some reason. In 4e grogs claimed it was because those options were too Powergamey but that crowd also defaults to Variant Human so

Fantasy means humans, short humans, shorter humans, really short humans, and humans with pointy ears. Anything else is special snowflakeism and weird *turns into a giant flying badger while fighting a ball of eyes that shoots Medusa rays*

# ? Apr 28, 2018 16:19

Novum: May 26, 2012; That's how we roll

I'm not turned off by them but I always forget to plan for them. In my head everything defaults to humans, dwarves, elves, orcs, and halflings but everyone I play with is all about tieflings, genasi, lizardmen and bugbears and poo poo. Reconciling the two scenes in my head always takes a little extra effort. You need to go from lord of the rings to the cantina in starwars.

# ? Apr 28, 2018 16:22

Waffles Inc.: Jan 20, 2005

Razorwired posted:

Warforged and Dragonborn REALLY turn some nerds off for some reason. In 4e grogs claimed it was because those options were too Powergamey but that crowd also defaults to Variant Human so

Warforged and Dragomborn are very cool I think

# ? Apr 28, 2018 16:22

Conspiratiorist: Nov 12, 2015; 17th Separate Kryvyi Rih Tank Brigade named after Konstantin Pestushko
Look to my coming on the first light of the ~~fifth~~ ~~sixth~~ some day

My issue with Warforged is how the game mechanics kind of bend over backwards to accommodate playing a golem-but-not-really as a character that functions under much the same assumptions of all other PC races.

Novum posted:

I'm not turned off by them but I always forget to plan for them. In my head everything defaults to humans, dwarves, elves, orcs, and halflings but everyone I play with is all about tieflings, genasi, lizardmen and bugbears and poo poo. Reconciling the two scenes in my head always takes a little extra effort. You need to go from lord of the rings to the cantina in starwars.

This is a separate, and valid, criticism. Sometimes you just don't want your adventuring party to require two dozen different races coexisting side-by-side in a mixed civilization, or to significantly stand out when such situation is markedly not the case.

Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Apr 28, 2018

# ? Apr 28, 2018 16:23

Novum: May 26, 2012; That's how we roll

Also as soon as someone goes for aasimar, tiefling, or genasi it means this campaign is going planar.

# ? Apr 28, 2018 16:25

Falstaff: Apr 27, 2008; I have a kind of alacrity in sinking.

AlphaDog posted:

It'd suit FATE pretty well, I think. A Sigil playbook for Fiasco could also produce an amazing session.

The best system I've ever used for Planescape is Burning Wheel. Creating/evolving beliefs and expressing those beliefs through your character's actions is a core part of that system, and it offers a lot of alternate ways to accomplish things besides just ~~"stab with with my sword"~~ "blast it with my spells."

# ? Apr 28, 2018 16:53

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# ? May 30, 2024 08:51

Lurdiak: Feb 26, 2006; I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.

The other important things about Planescape are that Limbo, the true neutral plane, is at the center of reality and lots of settlements in it are basically outposts for alignment planes, and if such a place gets TOO much like the plane, it gets sucked into it, adding to its size. And Sigil, the city of portals, is a place that's super important tactically to all the planar powers (which is what the gods are called), but none of them can claim it because The Lady of Pain keeps it a neutral zone and keeps anything too strong from coming in. So as a result, in this world that's mostly regimented by people who've picked a side, Sigil is this semi-dystopian clusterfuck of various creatures of mismatched alignments interacting semi-peacefully for fear of drawing the attention of the Lady. But she doesn't sweat the small stuff, so a lot of sketchy things happen in Sigil.

Elfgames posted:

yeah but this is D&D and that's pretty much completely untrue

It was an aspirational design philosophy more than a practical one.

Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Apr 28, 2018

# ? Apr 28, 2018 16:55

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