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LesterGroans posted:"A movie is bad if it gives you a lot to talk about" is a pretty interesting talk for a discussion forum. Why doesn't the elf woman talk for two-thirds of the movie? What are the goals of the Hispanic gang? What is the point of Jakobi saving the Orc teen if he lets him die anyway? The answer is a disjointed lovely script that meanders all over the loving place
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Apr 28, 2018 06:52
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Unoriginal Name posted:Why doesn't the elf woman talk for two-thirds of the movie? What are the goals of the Hispanic gang? What is the point of Jakobi saving the Orc teen if he lets him die anyway? The answer is a disjointed lovely script that meanders all over the loving place 1. Noomi joined a monastic religious order that required a vow of silence midway through filming. 2. To return California to Mexico. 3. He's a good Orc Man.
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Apr 28, 2018 07:01
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Unoriginal Name posted:Why doesn't the elf woman talk for two-thirds of the movie? What are the goals of the Hispanic gang? What is the point of Jakobi saving the Orc teen if he lets him die anyway? The answer is a disjointed lovely script that meanders all over the loving place - The leader of the Hispanic gang thought he could use the wand to get up out of his wheelchair again - Jakoby is Orc Jesus and needed his "betrayed by one I saved" moment before his resurrection The elf girl not revealing that she spoke English is because the script relied on characters not telling each other important stuff to drag out the dramatic reveals for later in the movie (Jakoby not telling Will Smith what really happened in the alley the day he got shot, Will Smith not being honest with Jakoby about all the poo poo going on behind his back with the other cops, the hobo wizard dropping hints about a prophecy instead of explaining his poo poo, etc etc).
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Apr 28, 2018 07:04
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CharlestheHammer posted:Well yeah it’s a bad film so of course it’s central conceit is dumb. i like how this is so difficult to grasp. "they're not stand ins for black people since black people still exist in the same socioeconomic position!" is just restating the problem with the movie's universe.
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Apr 28, 2018 11:56
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Can we please move it to the loving Bright thread?
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Apr 28, 2018 12:03
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is K. Waste in that thread because i have tried what i said i would do, re that movie e: gently caress it, here. I wash my hands of it. I know I promised to give it a shot and get back to you on the mythology/ideology dialectic but that did not happen. I made an attempt and these are my unedited notes: - orcs, humans, elves are ok but fairies are not - "i cant gently caress up my pension. thats my worst nightmare"  - aaaa every single line of dialogue sounds like its improvised, badly - actually the girl whos packing a bag is the best actor so far - wtf is this 100% first takes? Then I stopped watching, I couldn't take it anymore. I am sorry. Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Apr 28, 2018 |
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Apr 28, 2018 12:12
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Krankenstyle posted:is K. Waste in that thread because i have tried what i said i would do, re that movie K. Waste is simply filling in whenever Super MechaGodzilla is unable to fulfill any of his duties
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Apr 28, 2018 15:03
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Bright is good, but this doesn’t belong here take it back to the bright thread you orc bastards
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Apr 28, 2018 15:39
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bows1 posted:Bright is good, but this doesn’t belong here take it back to the bright thread you orc bastards It belongs here: http://www.justjared.com/2018/01/03/bright-sequel-confirmed-by-netflix/
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Apr 28, 2018 15:55
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Asking why Bright takes place a present-day city with cars is like asking why Lord Of The Rings takes place in a medieval kingdom with horses.
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Apr 28, 2018 19:25
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Asking why Bright takes place a present-day city with cars is like asking why Lord Of The Rings takes place in a medieval kingdom with horses. Because it’s the writers fetish.
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Apr 28, 2018 19:26
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Lord Of The Rings takes place in an entirely alien world. The mere existence of humanoid characters is a 'plot hole'.
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Apr 28, 2018 19:30
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That’s not what plot hole means
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Apr 28, 2018 19:32
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I thought Middle Earth was supposed to be Earth (and in particular Europe) thousands of years in the past, like Hyboria from the Conan stories.
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Apr 28, 2018 19:48
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Wheat Loaf posted:I thought Middle Earth was supposed to be Earth (and in particular Europe) thousands of years in the past, like Hyboria from the Conan stories.
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Apr 28, 2018 20:57
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Wheat Loaf posted:I thought Middle Earth was supposed to be Earth (and in particular Europe) thousands of years in the past, like Hyboria from the Conan stories. A Buttery Pastry posted:Yeah, my understanding is that it's basically supposed to function as a unifying mythological past for all of Europe - something Tolkien thought we lacked. Magical stuff slowly receding from the world is basically the setup to the mundane world of history. Oh, well in that case problem solved: Bright takes place in a mythical past, as imagined by an advanced future society.
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Apr 28, 2018 21:08
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Oh, well in that case problem solved: Bright takes place in a mythical past, as imagined by an advanced future society. No it doesn’t.
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Apr 28, 2018 21:20
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Yeah, my understanding is that it's basically supposed to function as a unifying mythological past for all of Europe - something Tolkien thought we lacked. Magical stuff slowly receding from the world is basically the setup to the mundane world of history. which is weird because he clearly read & translated Bjovulf several times
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Apr 28, 2018 21:55
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CharlestheHammer posted:No it doesn’t. Why not?
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Apr 28, 2018 22:10
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Krankenstyle posted:which is weird because he clearly read & translated Bjovulf several times It’s less of the need of a unifying myth and more of a preservation of the ring of power myth. At the time Die Nibelung was being used more and more by Nazi Germany as a shining example of the purity of German artistry. Wagner had also dedicated the work to the father of National Socialist thought. Tolkien believed that the ring of power was too important to Europe’s cultural identity to risk losing it forever by way of tainted association.
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Apr 28, 2018 22:36
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Why not? Why does it. Also what do you think a plot hole is,
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Apr 28, 2018 22:55
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“The past as imagined by a future society” is almost exactly how George Miller described the story of Mad Max Fury Road.
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Apr 28, 2018 22:57
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:It’s less of the need of a unifying myth and more of a preservation of the ring of power myth. At the time Die Nibelung was being used more and more by Nazi Germany as a shining example of the purity of German artistry. Wagner had also dedicated the work to the father of National Socialist thought. Alright I can see that. the nibelung is clearly inferior to the icelandic sagas though
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Apr 28, 2018 23:57
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Wheat Loaf posted:I thought Middle Earth was supposed to be Earth (and in particular Europe) thousands of years in the past, like Hyboria from the Conan stories. I can't remember if the book ever mentioned it but the Rankin/Bass cartoon of Return of the King definitely put that forward having Gandalf talk about how Hobbits were gradually getting taller and will eventually just kind of breed out.
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Apr 29, 2018 00:34
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porfiria posted:1. Noomi joined a monastic religious order that required a vow of silence midway through filming. Incredible.
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Apr 29, 2018 00:47
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muscles like this! posted:I can't remember if the book ever mentioned it but the Rankin/Bass cartoon of Return of the King definitely put that forward having Gandalf talk about how Hobbits were gradually getting taller and will eventually just kind of breed out. The end of Return of the King marks the end of some age, and magic begins fading from the world. Dwarves begin to isolate under mountains, shirefolk start to disappear, and the elves are already sailing off when Frodo leaves. there's a bunch of stuff in the appendecies and i even read the trilogy recently but you'd have to google for details, but yeah i think tolkein's middle earth is just turbo-ancient europe.
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Apr 29, 2018 00:49
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Noted un-problematic works of fiction Lord of the Rings and Conan, popular for their wholesome views on king genes and also some races are just plain evil.
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Apr 29, 2018 01:06
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it's always really fun to go down this road but nobody else was talking about that poo poo and like for once can we just talk about tolkein's works without whining about the antiquated views of a dead british man who was old enough to serve in world war 1 as if there was any loving chance a man with his upbringing in his time could be anything other than who he was.
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Apr 29, 2018 01:30
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Grendels Dad posted:Noted un-problematic works of fiction Lord of the Rings and Conan, popular for their wholesome views on king genes and also some races are just plain evil. I watched Conan '82 last night and what a modern journey it was.
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Apr 29, 2018 01:44
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basic hitler posted:it's always really fun to go down this road but nobody else was talking about that poo poo and like for once can we just talk about tolkein's works without whining about the antiquated views of a dead british man who was old enough to serve in world war 1 as if there was any loving chance a man with his upbringing in his time could be anything other than who he was. scared?
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Apr 29, 2018 01:45
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basic hitler posted:it's always really fun to go down this road but nobody else was talking about that poo poo and like for once can we just talk about tolkein's works without whining about the antiquated views of a dead british man who was old enough to serve in world war 1 as if there was any loving chance a man with his upbringing in his time could be anything other than who he was. Also I thought the always-evil race was Germans, again cause of World War I.
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Apr 29, 2018 01:53
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basic hitler posted:it's always really fun to go down this road but nobody else was talking about that poo poo and like for once can we just talk about tolkein's works without whining about the antiquated views of a dead british man who was old enough to serve in world war 1 as if there was any loving chance a man with his upbringing in his time could be anything other than who he was. Post username
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Apr 29, 2018 02:00
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Grendels Dad posted:Noted un-problematic works of fiction Lord of the Rings and Conan, popular for their wholesome views on king genes and also some races are just plain evil. Hey, I'm not saying all Stygians are evil sorcerors or assassins, but I've never met one who isn't. It just makes you think, that's all.
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Apr 29, 2018 02:15
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Byzantine posted:Also I thought the always-evil race was Germans, again cause of World War I. yeah but get this - a WW1 British lieutenant who wrote fairy tales for children and dorked out over linguistics might have unwittingly incorporated an antiquated ideology that's so far removed from the modern world, it's almost fantastical in itself. Let's loving run with that. Ignore that this meta-analysis requires a fairly mature and reasonably educated mind to compute, and use it to suppose some really dumb rear end hot takes, like that these children's fantasy books that inspired countless people in a positive way, are secretly bad. Let's do this to Grimm's fairytales while we're at it. Was the german peasantry secretly super hosed up as well? what does the epic Beowulf have to say about our modern class struggle, or the problematic ideology of one of its authors? Or the hidden bigotry of the man who inscribed the jellingstones of harald bluetooth?? I dunno, i find that thinking about this poo poo, in this way, like i'm in english lit 101, all the time, about everything, really boring!!!!
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Apr 29, 2018 02:34
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basic hitler posted:Was the german peasantry secretly super hosed up as well? A brief glance at the history of Europe would suggest that, yes. The peasantry, and society as a whole, were indeed pretty hosed up, seeing as they collapsed into a continent ruining war at least a couple of times a century. Also, Tokien wasn't writing three hundred years ago. His books were published in living memory.
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Apr 29, 2018 02:42
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Does anyone have anything more useful to say about Tolkien than he was a racist? It's where the conversation always goes when he is mentioned and it's more than a little tedious.
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Apr 29, 2018 02:47
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I don't care if Tolkein is racist but acknowledge he is hth us all in this trying time.
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Apr 29, 2018 02:51
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ruddiger posted:Have you seen the HBO show, The Leftovers? It had some great commentary in regards to religion/cults/society. The Leftovers is the show that Lost wished it was. The series finale was the most emotionally satisfying finale of a show that I can remember.
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Apr 29, 2018 02:54
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IIRC, the Orcs weren't supposed to be any specific ethnicity, other than representing the horrors of industrialised warfare. 'We were all Orcs in the Great War' and all. Though other writers, including one in the Soviet Union who wrote The Last Ringbearer as a counterpoint, have noticed strong classist overtones, with the Orcs as demonisations of workers and pretty much all of the heroes being at least petty nobility.
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Apr 29, 2018 03:10
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SimonCat posted:Does anyone have anything more useful to say about Tolkien than he was a racist? It's where the conversation always goes when he is mentioned and it's more than a little tedious. It's cool when people police the thread and contribute nothing themselves. Be the change, my dude. Tolkien's strengths and contributions are well known, it's an accepted fact of how much he contributed. I mean, he essentially legitimised fantasy, for good or ill. However, his work is pretty messed up when you think about it. And that's worth discussing too because it's integral to his work, in much the same way Lovecraft's neuroses and prejudices are integral and illuminating to his work. I mean that's left a stain on fantasy. There's a huge amount of fantasy i've not read, but a massive chunk of fantasy falls prey to the 'everyone from X race is like X' Of the major authors, Erikson is the only one I don't think falls into that.
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Apr 29, 2018 03:12
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