Israel/Palestine

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(Thread IKs: Main Paineframe, Irony Be My Shield, punishedkissinger)

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

So Bibi is gonna officially declare war to Iran in order to get people to stop talking about the eleventy gazillion corruption scandals that he's clumsily and transparently trying to dodge.

# ? May 1, 2018 17:50

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# ? May 23, 2024 03:23

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Cat Mattress posted:

So Bibi is gonna officially declare war to Iran in order to get people to stop talking about the eleventy gazillion corruption scandals that he's clumsily and transparently trying to dodge.

Well I�m sure at minimum MBS and the Saudis will support him

# ? May 1, 2018 18:02

GaussianCopula: Jun 5, 2011; Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/abbas-says-jews-behavior-not-anti-semitism-caused-the-holocaust/

Abbas victim blaming Jews for the Holocaust...

# ? May 1, 2018 19:25

XMNN: Apr 26, 2008; I am incredibly stupid

Welp looks like it's time to kill all the Palestinians then

# ? May 1, 2018 19:31

emanresu tnuocca: Sep 2, 2011; by Athanatos

In some perfect parallel universe Netanyahu and Abbas share a room in a retirement home where they spend all day long yelling at clouds together.

# ? May 1, 2018 19:46

VideoGameVet: May 14, 2005; It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion. It is by the juice of Java that pedaling acquires speed, the teeth acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion.

Of course, Bibi is right about Iran. Just like he was about Iraq.

(note this is a sarcastic message)

Only registered members can see post attachments!

# ? May 1, 2018 19:54

Harold Fjord: Jan 3, 2004

GaussianCopula posted:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/abbas-says-jews-behavior-not-anti-semitism-caused-the-holocaust/

Abbas victim blaming Jews for the Holocaust...

Sure justifies shooting all those people huh?

# ? May 1, 2018 20:14

Miftan: Mar 31, 2012; Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

GaussianCopula posted:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/abbas-says-jews-behavior-not-anti-semitism-caused-the-holocaust/

Abbas victim blaming Jews for the Holocaust...

We have enough nazi-like assholes in Israel, we don't need more of you fuckers making GBS threads up the I/P thread as well. gently caress off.

# ? May 1, 2018 20:20

punishedkissinger: Sep 20, 2017

Is Abbas even popularly supported at this point?

# ? May 1, 2018 20:20

guidoanselmi: Feb 6, 2008; I thought my ideas were so clear. I wanted to make an honest post. No lies whatsoever.

I never met a single Palestinian who liked Abbas or PA.

# ? May 1, 2018 20:24

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

Cat Mattress posted:

So Bibi is gonna officially declare war to Iran in order to get people to stop talking about the eleventy gazillion corruption scandals that he's clumsily and transparently trying to dodge.

The Knesset just passed a bill allowing Netanyahu to declare war on his own authority without any need for Knesset approval or even the approval of his own cabinet. :toot:

# ? May 1, 2018 20:28

punishedkissinger: Sep 20, 2017

Am I correct in understanding that the last election in the West Bank was in 2005?

# ? May 1, 2018 20:29

Not Operator: Jan 1, 2009; Not A doctor, THE Doctor!

Main Paineframe posted:

The Knesset just passed a bill allowing Netanyahu to declare war on his own authority without any need for Knesset approval or even the approval of his own cabinet.

???

That seems like a hell of a thing to do right now. Isn't he and his entire immediate family still under investigation for a thousand counts of corruption?

# ? May 1, 2018 20:30

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

kidkissinger posted:

Am I correct in understanding that the last election in the West Bank was in 2005?

Basically, but as with anything I/P-related, the answer is a little more complicated. Theres two big problems preventing elections. First, the West Bank and Gaza theoretically (at least on paper) have a unified government, and thus any elections would need to be held across both regions in order to be legitimate, which is made difficult by both heavy Israeli restrictions and inter-Palestinian strife. Second, and much more importantly, Fatah has absolutely no interest in holding elections they're not going to win. They're not confident in a fair victory and their lack of power in Gaza prevents them from rigging the election as hard as they'd like, so they just keep finding excuses to cancel elections.

Not Operator posted:

???

That seems like a hell of a thing to do right now. Isn't he and his entire immediate family still under investigation for a thousand counts of corruption?

The new Knesset session is a loving mess, as every single party in the current governing coalition is demanding that they get what they want RIGHT NOW or else they'll dissolve the government. Given Bibi's situation, going to elections right now would just result in an even more ungovernable mess, so a lot of insane stuff that would normally go nowhere is getting seriously looked at and a couple appear to have already passed... including Netanyahu's demand that in "extreme circumstances", he would be able to declare war without anyone's approval except that of the Defense Minister. What does "extreme circumstances" mean? :shrug:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/pm-authorized-to-declare-war-in-extreme-situations-without-consulting-cabinet posted:

PM authorized to declare war in 'extreme' situations without consulting cabinet

In a surprise and potentially far-reaching victory for Benjamin Netanyahu, the Knesset on Monday evening gave the prime minister the authority to declare war or order a major military operation by consulting only the defense minister, and not via a full cabinet vote as the law had previously required.

Sixty-two Knesset members voted the dramatic proposal into law, beating out the 41 opposition MKs who opposed it claiming that the language of the law effectively gives free reign to the prime minister by removing all oversight.

According to the new law, in “extreme circumstances,” military operations can be authorized by the prime minister and defense minister alone and will not need a vote by cabinet ministers.

The law does not specify exactly what those circumstances may be, or who will determine them, saying only that the case will apply, “if the issue is necessary due to urgency.”

The proposal — advanced by Netanyahu since last year — had been rejected earlier in the day by members of two key Knesset committees: Law and Justice, and Foreign Affairs and Defense. It was resubmitted, however, by Likud member and Foreign Affairs and Defense committee chairman Avi Dichter during the second and third readings of a broader amendment and was voted into law as part of that wider legislation.

That wider amendment allows the government to delegate the authority for going to war under normal circumstances, or mobilizing for a major military operation, to a forum made up of “at least half” of all cabinet ministers.

Some eight years ago, Netanyahu and then-defense minister Ehud Barak instructed the chief of staff and head of the Mossad intelligence service to put the army into a state of readiness, only to be told by the latter two that the relevant activity was illegal because it had not been properly approved and could lead to war.

There have, however, been numerous occasions where decisions of a similar nature have been taken by just the Security Cabinet, a smaller forum of ministers tasked with forming policy regarding war and peace, or other smaller forums of ministers.

A committee set up in 2016 under a former National Security Adviser, Major General (res.) Yaakov Amidror, to examine the functioning of the security cabinet and the way it informs and updates ministers recommended bringing the law into line with what he said had become the “normal practice.” In June last year, the cabinet voted in favor of amending the law.

Two opposition lawmakers — Zionist Union’s Omer Bar Lev, an IDF reserve officer with the rank of colonel and a former commander of the elite unit Sayeret Matkal, and Yesh Atid’s Ofer Shelah, a company commander in the reserve Paratroopers Brigade who lost an eye during the 1982 Lebanon War — warned the committees that the wording of the new legislation could enable the prime minister to exclude lawmakers who opposed a military operation and to bring such an operation to a vote in their absence.

They also said that allowing the prime minister and defense minister to decide when a situation is considered “extreme circumstances” would give them full power to go to war without any oversight.

Shelah later charged that coalition members voted “against their own opinions, in the matter of life and death” because of pressure from Netanyahu

“Netanyahu’s contempt for everyone around him and for everything we’ve learned from our many wars has overtaken the recognition of many good and experienced Knesset members,” he said.

The Israel Democracy Institute submitted a series of reservations to the committees about the bill, including requiring the approval of the prime minister, deputy prime minister and ministers of several key departments and suggesting defining which military activities needed cabinet approval and which did not. None of the institute’s recommendations was accepted.

Despite unsuccessfully opposing the bill in the Knesset, opposition parties told The Times of Israel Monday night that there were no current plans to petition against it in the High Court.

# ? May 1, 2018 20:45

guidoanselmi: Feb 6, 2008; I thought my ideas were so clear. I wanted to make an honest post. No lies whatsoever.

Time to regime change Israel. Clearly a rogue state. :smug:

# ? May 2, 2018 02:52

Lemniscate Blue: Apr 21, 2006; Here we go again.

guidoanselmi posted:

Time to regime change Israel. Clearly a rogue state.

Paging John Bolton, John Bolton to the radioactive courtesy phone.

# ? May 2, 2018 05:07

Zulily Zoetrope: Jun 1, 2011; Muldoon

You gotta admire the balls it takes to go on the international stage and flaunt a literal ton of bullshit about some other nation having a secret hidden nuclear program, when it�s an open secret that you are the only nation with actual confirmed undisclosed nukes, and also you have been busted for hella corruption already.

# ? May 2, 2018 15:20

lollontee: Nov 4, 2014; Can't post for 10 years!

It does take balls, but if you're hoping to get Fox News to show your propaganda to americas pissboy president, it's probably best to go simple. Big slides, large font, few words, nailed it

# ? May 2, 2018 15:46

By popular demand: Jul 17, 2007; IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!

It's hard to find the words to describe just how full of poo poo Bibi is.
No wait, he's got .8 TED (Trump Equivalent Dose) of bullshit.

# ? May 2, 2018 16:14

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Bibi was speaking directly to Trump. The rest of the international community knows that this is all stuff that has been known about for a decade.

# ? May 2, 2018 16:16

Rigged Death Trap: Feb 13, 2012; BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

It was a show for trump and his base as well as sayisfying the more hawish side of Likud. because the only reason Bibi has survived this long is because hes a tireless people pleaser.

# ? May 2, 2018 16:29

Zanzibar Ham: Mar 17, 2009; You giving me the cold shoulder? How cruel.; Grimey Drawer

Also to give Israeli media stuff to talk about besides his corruption and general terribleness.

# ? May 2, 2018 16:32

By popular demand: Jul 17, 2007; IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!

I'm actually feeling dumber by virtue of living in the same country as Bibi.
Doesn't the bullshit eventually overflow and flood everything in sight?

# ? May 2, 2018 16:32

Miftan: Mar 31, 2012; Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Horrible Lurkbeast posted:

I'm actually feeling dumber by virtue of living in the same country as Bibi.
Doesn't the bullshit eventually overflow and flood everything in sight?

Yeah, hence Brexit, Trump and Bibi. We've passed that point.

# ? May 2, 2018 16:38

FreshlyShaven: Sep 2, 2004; Je ne veux pas d'un monde o� la certitude de mourir de faim s'�change contre le risque de mourir d'ennui

Dareen Tatour was just convicted of the crime of writing poetry as an Arab in a state where referring to Arabs as vermin or advocating the gang rape of Palestinian women is not a disqualification for public office. Worth noting is her Israeli citizenship, which clearly isn't enough to guarantee one's most basic rights unless one is of the privileged ethnicity/religion.

# ? May 3, 2018 22:59

treasured8elief: Jul 25, 2011; Salad Prong

FreshlyShaven posted:

Dareen Tatour was just convicted of the crime of writing poetry as an Arab in a state where referring to Arabs as vermin or advocating the gang rape of Palestinian women is not a disqualification for public office. Worth noting is her Israeli citizenship, which clearly isn't enough to guarantee one's most basic rights unless one is of the privileged ethnicity/religion.

Resist, my people, resist them:

the poet Tariq al Haydar translates Dareen Tatour�s words into English posted:

Resist, my people, resist them.
In Jerusalem, I dressed my wounds and breathed my sorrows
And carried the soul in my palm
For an Arab Palestine.
I will not succumb to the �peaceful solution,�
Never lower my flags
Until I evict them from my land.
I cast them aside for a coming time.
Resist, my people, resist them.
Resist the settler�s robbery
And follow the caravan of martyrs.
Shred the disgraceful constitution
Which imposed degradation and humiliation
And deterred us from restoring justice.
They burned blameless children;
As for Hadil, they sniped her in public,
Killed her in broad daylight.
Resist, my people, resist them.
Resist the colonialist�s onslaught.
Pay no mind to his agents among us
Who chain us with the peaceful illusion.
Do not fear doubtful tongues;
The truth in your heart is stronger,
As long as you resist in a land
That has lived through raids and victory.
So Ali called from his grave:
Resist, my rebellious people.
Write me as prose on the agarwood;
My remains have you as a response.
Resist, my people, resist them.
Resist, my people, resist them.

# ? May 3, 2018 23:58

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

treasured8elief posted:

Resist, my people, resist them:

Yes, and?

# ? May 4, 2018 11:36

By popular demand: Jul 17, 2007; IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!

TOLERATE

DISSENT

To anyone reading this in more enlightened countries, please be better than us.

# ? May 4, 2018 11:55

DarkCrawler: Apr 6, 2009; by vyelkin

FreshlyShaven posted:

Dareen Tatour was just convicted of the crime of writing poetry as an Arab in a state where referring to Arabs as vermin or advocating the gang rape of Palestinian women is not a disqualification for public office. Worth noting is her Israeli citizenship, which clearly isn't enough to guarantee one's most basic rights unless one is of the privileged ethnicity/religion.

Just a quick reminder that Israel is an apartheid state and everyone who is pro-Israel in this thread is defending literal apartheid in the year 2018:
https://imgur.com/gallery/L86hXg4

# ? May 4, 2018 19:53

By popular demand: Jul 17, 2007; IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!

Careful now, hurting the feelings of the government is terrorism!

# ? May 4, 2018 20:12

ded redd: Aug 1, 2010; by Fluffdaddy

DarkCrawler posted:

Just a quick reminder that Israel is an apartheid state and everyone who is pro-Israel in this thread is defending literal apartheid in the year 2018:
https://imgur.com/gallery/L86hXg4

Was that really four years ago? Good god this is depressing.

# ? May 4, 2018 20:17

Xander77: Apr 6, 2009; Fuck it then. For another pit sandwich and some 'tater salad, I'll post a few more.

DarkCrawler posted:

Just a quick reminder that Israel is an apartheid state and everyone who is pro-Israel in this thread is defending literal apartheid in the year 2018:
https://imgur.com/gallery/L86hXg4

At least update it once every few years.

# ? May 4, 2018 20:25

DarkCrawler: Apr 6, 2009; by vyelkin

Lost the original PSD. file and too lazy to make a new one. As far as I know none of those laws or policies have changed anyway, but I admit I've kinda resigned myself into waiting for the inevitable one-state solution and have long since stopped following the specifics.

# ? May 4, 2018 20:45

Miftan: Mar 31, 2012; Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

DarkCrawler posted:

Lost the original PSD. file and too lazy to make a new one. As far as I know none of those laws or policies have changed anyway, but I admit I've kinda resigned myself into waiting for the inevitable one-state solution and have long since stopped following the specifics.

I thought they scrapped the nationality/citizenship thing after a high court case ages ago, which is why all israeli passports now say 'israeli' instead of 'jewish' or 'arab'.

# ? May 4, 2018 20:54

DarkCrawler: Apr 6, 2009; by vyelkin

Miftan posted:

I thought they scrapped the nationality/citizenship thing after a high court case ages ago, which is why all israeli passports now say 'israeli' instead of 'jewish' or 'arab'.

This one?
https://972mag.com/denying-israeli-nationality-only-perpetuates-discrimination/81597/
https://www.google.fi/amp/s/www.jta.org/2014/03/03/news-opinion/israel-middle-east/op-ed-why-israeli-is-not-a-nationality/amp

But uh...of course your passports say Israeli? That is the name of the country...Arab citizens of Israel still comes from Israel and are Israeli...citizens. There is no Israeli nation, there is the Jewish nation because Israel is a racist apartheid state. Non-Jews are basically residents at best, immediately inferior to any Jewish first-time visitor who steps off the plane.

DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 21:36 on May 4, 2018

# ? May 4, 2018 21:30

Miftan: Mar 31, 2012; Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

DarkCrawler posted:

This one?
https://972mag.com/denying-israeli-nationality-only-perpetuates-discrimination/81597/
https://www.google.fi/amp/s/www.jta.org/2014/03/03/news-opinion/israel-middle-east/op-ed-why-israeli-is-not-a-nationality/amp

But uh...of course your passports say Israeli? That is the name of the country...Arab citizens of Israel still comes from Israel and are Israeli...citizens. There is no Israeli nation, there is the Jewish nation because Israel is a racist apartheid state. Non-Jews are basically residents at best, immediately inferior to any Jewish first-time visitor who steps off the plane.

Well up until the 90s (I think) passports didn't say Israeli under nationality, it said 'arab' or 'jewish' or whatever. I guess they changed the lettering in passports over the fuss but not the actual law.

# ? May 4, 2018 22:02

Kim Jong Il: Aug 16, 2003

Horrible Lurkbeast posted:

Do you think that KJI just pretends to not understand the simple concept of "We can and should be better"? Or is he just denser than lead?

You seem pretty dense, given that you're the one demanding emotional responses that will make the situation worse.

Nebalebadingdong posted:

Last time you trashed If Not Now, you linked a Beinart article (which contained the faintest damnation I've ever seen) and an article that 404'd. You dismissed JVP with a single name drop of Alison Weir with no context or links of any kind. No one will, or should, take what you say at face value anymore.

It didn't 404 for me when I posted it, and that's easily searchable in 2 seconds on Google - https://medium.com/ifnotnoworg/ifnotnow-statement-on-louis-farrakhan-womens-march-and-antisemitism-509946e4b2c9. JVP's continued apology for anti-Semitism is again, well documented. You didn't respond to any of these, instead handwaiving them away, because you are arguing in bad faith.

Miftan posted:

We have enough nazi-like assholes in Israel, we don't need more of you fuckers making GBS threads up the I/P thread as well. gently caress off.

This is the third time in the past few months where Abbas has given nearly the exact same speech, and he has a long history of holocaust denial. The truth of his abhorrent behavior does not excuse anyone else's, but it's certainly in bounds for the thread.

# ? May 5, 2018 02:22

By popular demand: Jul 17, 2007; IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!

What

# ? May 5, 2018 06:54

Miftan: Mar 31, 2012; Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Kim Jong Il posted:

This is the third time in the past few months where Abbas has given nearly the exact same speech, and he has a long history of holocaust denial. The truth of his abhorrent behavior does not excuse anyone else's, but it's certainly in bounds for the thread.

It was an awful speech but I'm not willing to take criticism from an actual blood & soil rear end in a top hat who hates muslims, so I told him to get bent. He doesn't care, he's concern trolling because he hates Muslims.

# ? May 5, 2018 09:04

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# ? May 23, 2024 03:23

By popular demand: Jul 17, 2007; IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!

I'm actually more offended by KJI's lack of effort more than anything else.
But than again this thread is just preaching to the choir so I'll be going.
Does anybody have a big effort post about ways to resist the regime?

# ? May 5, 2018 10:04

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