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Worse assuming the technology has gotten better would imply anyone had ever fixed a superscience thing that turned out to not work as advertised and ah ha ha ha ha
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May 2, 2018 03:44
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Hell, the pirate captain is more useful at the software company than he is... I just assume the Pirate Captain is the smartest man in the VB cast because he probably read every book they ever plundered. "Yarrr, I read every one o'those 'Dummies' books. Lotta foundation in them thar things."
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May 2, 2018 04:30
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Mraagvpeine posted:He didn't get his memory back from hitting his head, it was his robotic hand which was the memory storage for the video he was getting through his cyber-eye which was sucked out from that experiment that went wrong. Oh yeah, that's right. He did fall, but he didn't hurt his head. His arm just started shaking. But still... why do we think that the memory eraser is temporary again? Because I don't remember anything about that.
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May 2, 2018 04:37
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reignofevil posted:Worse assuming the technology has gotten better would imply anyone had ever fixed a superscience thing that turned out to not work as advertised and ah ha ha ha ha Would be funny and fitting if half the OSI's toys were built by Jonas or some other probably long dead super-scientist who left no notes or manual and they've forgotten what most of them even do, see the Nozzle.
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May 2, 2018 08:43
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Would be funny and fitting if half the OSI's toys were built by Jonas or some other probably long dead super-scientist who left no notes or manual and they've forgotten what most of them even do, see the Nozzle. That was the scene a friend showed me to hook me on the show. It worked.
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May 2, 2018 09:31
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tarlibone posted:Oh yeah, that's right. He did fall, but he didn't hurt his head. His arm just started shaking. For starters they put Billy in the memory eraser and then he remembered the things they had erased later.
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May 2, 2018 14:55
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The memory eraser can also be straight up defeated with a tinfoil hat sooo....
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May 2, 2018 15:53
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reignofevil posted:For starters they put Billy in the memory eraser and then he remembered the things they had erased later. He was a guinea pig for an early version of the technology in question; they make this crystal clear in that scene. Also, to date, he's the only one ever shown as having regained memories. And, as Mraagvpeine pointed out, he has a built-in storage device for those memories connected to his nervous system. So, your position is that since one early test subject temporarily regained his memories, we should just assume that the technology never improved? We should assume that a typical subject's success rate with the final versions of the tech will be identical to the experiences of an early test subject of an early version of the tech, even though that early test subject's circumstances were extremely atypical? Sir, I don't think you're thinking seriously enough about cartoon technology. This stuff is important.
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May 2, 2018 16:05
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Tristesse posted:The memory eraser can also be straight up defeated with a tinfoil hat sooo.... Well, of course it can. But that's neither here nor there. Stopping it from working in the first place is not the same thing as the thing just not being permanent when it's not defeated.
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May 2, 2018 16:06
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tarlibone posted:He was a guinea pig for an early version of the technology in question; they make this crystal clear in that scene. Also, to date, he's the only one ever shown as having regained memories. And, as Mraagvpeine pointed out, he has a built-in storage device for those memories connected to his nervous system. I mean it is superscience. The alternative position is that it can be improved and I'd like to see the basis for THAT in the cartoon! Edit- furthermore Billy being the only one to remember might just be because he was one of the first guinea pigs! Maybe the process fades over time and they just never knew because it hadn't happened to their guinea pig yet; seems weird to improve something you probably haven't realized has gone wrong. Edit2- Also I can't resist pointing out that it wouldn't make much sense for the OSI to erase his memory but not the video/whatever contained in his robot hand specifically built for the purpose of storing stuff. I doubt the hand had anything to do with him remembering besides getting a bit wiggy and him suddenly getting a flashback because of the muscle memory triggering him. reignofevil fucked around with this message at 16:56 on May 2, 2018 |
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May 2, 2018 16:50
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reignofevil posted:I mean it is superscience. The alternative position is that it can be improved and I'd like to see the basis for THAT in the cartoon! And uh, that's about it. Maybe Brainulo or whatever his name is? Did the Futuro in the museum in the modern day look the same as Futuro in the sepia-tone flashbacks?
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May 3, 2018 21:21
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Tristesse posted:The memory eraser can also be straight up defeated with a tinfoil hat sooo.... You underestimate the strength of 
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May 3, 2018 22:40
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The OSI are blundering fascist thugs. This isn't subtle.
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May 4, 2018 00:19
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DACK FAYDEN posted:Jonas Venture Sr. and Jr. were both capable of improving on existing devices. Rusty also potentially improved upon his fathers work with cloning technology. Early on in the series its implied to be more or less entirely Rusty's own invention and that his father barely got started on it, if I recall, but the Halloween special implies Jonas Sr. was farther along although it was still Rusty that finished it up and got it working.
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May 4, 2018 02:19
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Hell, it goes back to season 1, Rusty got invited to Brisbyland just because Brisby knew about Jonas Sr's work on cloning. God only knows what Jonas was doing with it though, I doubt he had the same sort of concern for Rusty. Rusty Venture is a pretty good scientist, he's assembled fully functional human beings out of disembodied parts, he almost cracked the gay gene, he jury-rigged a portable dialysis machine, and made such things as the joy can, Oo Ray, and walking eye. Just he's rarely successful at selling it, and all his victories are somehow tainted. It's always too impractical or immoral to have commercial value, but not audacious enough with some kind of absurd vision for proper super science.
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May 4, 2018 03:02
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There is the persistent theory that Rusty has all the natural talent to be an evil scientist and doesn't realise it, or refuses to. Probably because Jonas was the worst role model for morality among many other things.
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May 4, 2018 03:23
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Well Killinger does turn him into a villain until Rusty realizes what is going on.
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May 4, 2018 03:38
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Exactly. I always got the vibe and felt its pretty much all but stated outright that Rusty would be an absolute smashing success as a villain, but has just enough morality and decency, even at the start of the series (I do feel he's grown a lot as a character. I think season 1 Rust would have accepted Killenger's offer) to refuse to become one and to instead trundle along as a third rate super scientist and has-been boy adventurer.
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May 4, 2018 03:47
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:Exactly. I always got the vibe and felt its pretty much all but stated outright that Rusty would be an absolute smashing success as a villain, but has just enough morality and decency, even at the start of the series (I do feel he's grown a lot as a character. I think season 1 Rust would have accepted Killenger's offer) to refuse to become one and to instead trundle along as a third rate super scientist and has-been boy adventurer. The reason he's not a villain is deep down, he's an idealist. He wants to do good.
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May 4, 2018 04:19
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Cojawfee posted:Well Killinger does turn him into a villain until Rusty realizes what is going on. Such a good episode. That's the kind of episode you could base an avatar on.
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May 4, 2018 04:29
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“Brock.... am I a bad person?” “Ehhh.” The smash cut endings are one of the best parts of the show. I love in the commentary how they keep talking about how Doc doesn’t know how to wrap up a story and just ends them abruptly and to great comic effect.
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May 4, 2018 06:18
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Yeah, I love them. I'm never sad to see the ends of an episode because they all end so dynamically.
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May 4, 2018 09:02
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I always read it as Rusty has all the capability of being a super scientist, but instead of his dad actually raising him and teaching him, he just raised him as a Team Venture mascot instead, instilling in him a sense of inadequacy, misplaced confidence, and zero knowledge of how to actually be a super scientist. Which is why he was a perfect villain without realizing it, since that's essentially a villain backstory, only his entire identity is tied up in this whole being a super-scientist hero successor to his dad. To me, the alternate universe, super-scientist, Broadway hit musical writing, perfect Rusty was just a Rusty that was, you know, not raised like a cartoon child-adventure hero and didn't have all that associated baggage.
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May 4, 2018 10:51
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pnumoman posted:To me, the alternate universe, super-scientist, Broadway hit musical writing, perfect Rusty was just a Rusty that was, you know, not raised like a cartoon child-adventure hero and didn't have all that associated baggage. I thought the Rusty!© musical would be about his whole being a sidekick. Was there any reason for him to be known as "Rusty" otherwise? I think the Alt!Doc Venture just recovered from his childhood better.
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May 4, 2018 11:44
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Ghost Leviathan posted:There is the persistent theory that Rusty has all the natural talent to be an evil scientist and doesn't realise it, or refuses to. Probably because Jonas was the worst role model for morality among many other things. That's not a theory, that's the text of the show 
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May 4, 2018 12:09
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LashLightning posted:I thought the Rusty!© musical would be about his whole being a sidekick. Was there any reason for him to be known as "Rusty" otherwise? Sure, but it feels like the exact same things didn't happen to them on those adventures. Like, I'm sure good Rusty had some underlying medical condition emerge while being a ransom victim, leading to the same rule about hostages being passed, but it feels like good Rusty would have gotten something like a burst appendix or something, not something embarrassing to a kid like testicular torsion.
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May 4, 2018 12:15
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feedmyleg posted:That's not a theory, that's the text of the show Which really makes him a less successful Hank Pym in a way.
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May 4, 2018 12:51
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pnumoman posted:I always read it as Rusty has all the capability of being a super scientist, but instead of his dad actually raising him and teaching him, he just raised him as a Team Venture mascot instead, instilling in him a sense of inadequacy, misplaced confidence, and zero knowledge of how to actually be a super scientist. Which is why he was a perfect villain without realizing it, since that's essentially a villain backstory, only his entire identity is tied up in this whole being a super-scientist hero successor to his dad. And notable that the pattern repeats with the boys, as well as variants with the other boy adventurers; Jonny Quest has no idea how to function in society and is used to being dependent on adults to function, the Astro Boy spoof has basically spent his existence as a child soldier (which is rather fitting given the original character's backstory would fit right into Venture Bros), the Hardy Boys parodies seem like the equivalent to children who've suffered under a stage parent and have been denied a normal life despite seeing it in front of them (going on with the ongoing metaphor of boy adventurers to child actors, with Rusty being a washed-up former child actor who never recaptured his glory) and so on. The Venture Bros themselves are a bit different, having been basically raised in isolation, I figured it was pretty rare for them to leave the compound except for adventures until about around when the show starts, and they live in bumfuck nowhere (til the most recent season at least, where you see both of them begin to develop considerably because they have the opportunity to go out and live their own lives now) with nothing to do except make their own fun. (I can identify with that) Doc being way less successful and (successfully) sociable than his father ironically means that the boys are less exposed to dangerous adults and crazy people at home than Rusty had to deal with (getting killed by supervillain rampages aside) and Brock has basically been a way better guardian to them even in his old remorseless killing machine days than Jonas Venture's pack of pet psychos. (again, getting killed all the time aside, though that also has the effect of most of their worst trauma memories dying with them) Suddenly I'm wondering how many comparisons you can draw between The Venture Bros and Bojack Horseman.
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May 4, 2018 13:49
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Themes of depression, failure, and self-sabotage should cover all the bases there
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May 4, 2018 13:52
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The hardy boys were also the menendez brothers and killed their parents.
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May 4, 2018 13:59
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theflyingexecutive posted:Themes of depression, failure, and self-sabotage should cover all the bases there Was thinking more cycles of abuse and trauma, and burnout after fame, but that too.
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May 4, 2018 14:09
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So the Monarch is better at being a Superhero and Rusty is better at being a supervillian. This is a good show.
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May 4, 2018 14:44
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I ended up watching The Doctor Is Sin last night after reading this thread and remembered it has one of my favorite jokes: "That must have been one of the gals in my PR department." "You have a.... Puerto Rican department?"
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May 4, 2018 14:59
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I dunno, I think some of the show's premise may be just that super science is inherently evil. Dr. Impossible went evil pretty fast, and Im not sure what he made back when he was "good" aside from three people constantly tormented by horrible mutations. Jonas Jr. mostly sidestepped the whole game by limiting himself to normal consumerism. That just leaves Jonas Sr. with his children abandoned in a bunker because his AI mother didn't like his plan to drug apocalypse survivors, Gargantua 1, which at best was just abandoned and at worst had its original crew go crazy and kill eachother, and humongoloid. Hell, from how the OSI and Sandow appeared to react to ORB, they sure as hell didn't expect anything good. At best, super science is grossly negligent to society at large, making huge advances but never bothering to do anything with them, so they just stay off in their weird corner as a forgotten relic, at worst it's malevolent and better left buried in its weird corner.
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May 4, 2018 17:14
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I don't know that the idea is so much that superscience is inherently evil as it is that superscience can never, ever, ever live up to the promises that it makes. In the 50s and 60s, superscience gave us glimpses of flying cars, various ray guns that do everything from burn stuff to shrink stuff, and so on. But even in cases where there was no obvious caveat (like, say, flying cars that fart out pure radiation or something), you still had some crazy poo poo that could happen, and while it wasn't always necessarily evil per se, it was rarely, if ever, good. And this wasn't intentional; at least, I don't think it was. That's just how it turned out. Different superscientists dealt with this constant roller coaster of innovation and frustration in different ways. Dr. Impossible went crazy, and with a little nudge (Sally leaving him), he went full-on evil. Phantom Limb went evil at the first opportunity. Dr. Venture's brilliance in the fields of superscience, branding, and marketing (via both Venture Industries and the Rusty Venture Show, which was brought to you by... SMOKING!!*) led him to insert his head so far up his own rear end that he became a neglectful (to the point of abuse, it could be argued) father, a borderline narcissist, and... well, just not a great guy. He didn't turn evil, but he wasn't good. * one of my all-time hardest laughs was the first time I heard and saw that!
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May 4, 2018 17:28
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Can I just say how much I appreciate that this thread doesn't only devolve into page after page of quotes and memes and that we actually discuss the show, characters, and themes?
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May 4, 2018 18:43
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feedmyleg posted:Can I just say how much I appreciate that this thread doesn't only devolve into page after page of quotes and memes and that we actually discuss the show, characters, and themes? Yes, I agree. I have a Reddit account for just like 3 boards, because anything on a show or game there just turns into posts about Fanart over and over given enough time. Reddit is YouTube comments, the message board.
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May 4, 2018 19:30
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That’s cause we play by the rules...the ghost pirate rules!
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May 4, 2018 20:32
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You live by the ghost, you die by the ghost
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May 4, 2018 20:40
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SlothfulCobra posted:Hell, it goes back to season 1, Rusty got invited to Brisbyland just because Brisby knew about Jonas Sr's work on cloning. God only knows what Jonas was doing with it though, I doubt he had the same sort of concern for Rusty. There's a mention about how the cloning technology got banned by Congress; I've believed for a long time that if that hadn't happened, Rusty's life would have been substantially different.
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May 4, 2018 21:18
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