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I think Herbert assumed that by that point we'd have significantly more powerful nukes because, you know, space travel exists. Figure that poo poo out and you can definitely create something to blow up a planet. It would also make sense if they had smaller ones for various other purposes and literally nobody just says "I want the most destructive thing that exists and give me nothing but those." Within the setting most warfare is hinted at being secretive. Once again Cold War; proxy wars, assassinations, political bullshit, and deniable assets seem to be the order of the day. This is part of why shield warfare is the norm. The people you really wanted to kill were the nobility and you didn't do that directly for a lot of reasons. However they also had shields and were trained to find poisons and fight with knives. The open combat on Dune was considered unusual. Then the jyhad started and everybody was going "wait, what the gently caress is this? This isn't how we do things!"
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May 1, 2018 23:41
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It seems like the Houses also rely on professional armies instead of conscripts, so presumably open fighting also spills over into disturbing the commoners and that's also Not Done unless you're a real dick. The whole "everyone in their place" thing, ya know.
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May 2, 2018 02:11
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sebmojo posted:I was reading a dune blog about that dinner party scene and I realised that this: "My son displays a general garment and you claim it's cut to your fit?" is actually a perfectly propos riposte, not a random comment to fit in the code word. That's puzzled me for like 35 years. That blog is a great read by the way, and has a bunch of quotes from doon for a bonus.
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May 2, 2018 02:14
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B R I G A D U N E
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May 2, 2018 03:17
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Paul Muad'Dweeb
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May 2, 2018 03:18
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Duke Leto Forevo
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May 2, 2018 03:19
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Dr. Whoeh
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May 2, 2018 03:21
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:Paul Muad'Dweeb
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May 2, 2018 03:29
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Dance without rhythm like no-one's watching
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May 2, 2018 03:34
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Where are my feelings? I feel for no one.
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May 2, 2018 03:36
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Defiance Industries posted:It seems like the Houses also rely on professional armies instead of conscripts, so presumably open fighting also spills over into disturbing the commoners and that's also Not Done unless you're a real dick. The whole "everyone in their place" thing, ya know. It's simply not Dune, old boy.
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May 2, 2018 03:41
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Paul: "Hello, I'd like to order the biggest Jihad you have." Pause. "No, that's too big."
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May 2, 2018 04:29
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Butler? I hardly knew 'er!
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May 2, 2018 04:36
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priznat posted:I always wondered why they wouldn’t clone Gurney instead of Duncan so you can get that sweet mandolin action through history. Come to think of it why didn't they ever clone Paul?
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May 2, 2018 09:20
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Sekenr posted:Come to think of it why didn't they ever clone Paul? I think there's mention of the Tleilaxu doing that but their most obvious buyer can be Paul on a whim and so wasn't buying.
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May 2, 2018 09:38
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Milky Moor posted:Paul: "Hello, I'd like to order the biggest Jihad you have." Pause. "No, that's too big."
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May 2, 2018 12:14
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Tleilaxative
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May 2, 2018 13:33
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Ok nerds, I've ordered the book. better be good
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May 2, 2018 14:38
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Sekenr posted:Come to think of it why didn't they ever clone Paul? That's in the Brian Herbert sequels. To absolutely no one's surprise, it is handled poorly.
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May 2, 2018 14:58
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Ornamented Death posted:That's in the Brian Herbert sequels. To absolutely no one's surprise, it is handled poorly. 
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May 2, 2018 16:24
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Ornamented Death posted:That's in the Brian Herbert sequels. To absolutely no one's surprise, it is handled poorly. Pauul Atreides?
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May 2, 2018 17:06
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Pham Nuwen posted:Pauul Atreides? Bigger Paul
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May 2, 2018 17:21
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Milky Moor posted:Paul: "Hello, I'd like to order the biggest Jihad you have." Pause. "No, that's too big." 
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May 2, 2018 17:52
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Pham Nuwen posted:Pauul Atreides? Paolo, actually.
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May 2, 2018 17:52
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more like paolol amirite
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May 2, 2018 18:02
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My takeaway from the cloning bit was that people had learned to prize the entire organism, not just snippets of DNA. Same reason the Reverend Mothers eschewed cloning for live birth - even though you risk forming bonds with people, it's natural and doesn't require a lot of fussing with gene sequences. Since the BT were going whole hog on the genetic engineering stuff, they wanted to use "every part of the animal" so to speak. If you cloned Paul but took away, for example, his cynicism, it wouldn't be Paul anymore. So you'd probably have a weaker version who wouldn't be able to live through the Spice Agony and other things. In the later books they start to refine their techniques to give them more control of how an organism is shaped. Still, there are hiccups and mutations the come along and make things interesting. One of the big reasons they didn't clone Paul is alluded to by Scytale in the beginning of Dune Messiah. He remarks that the BT have been experimenting with "essences" and they had created a messiah of their own already, but they had tried to push the subject to do things that went against its nature. Their creation committed suicide. Idaho says something redolent with the same meaning somewhere - Leto, maybe? - when someone tells him if he doesn't play ball they'll just replace him with another clone. He replies "Go ahead, it won't do anything I wouldn't do." DUNE. e. henpod posted:Ok nerds, I've ordered the book. better be good If you were tempted to buy, I'm tempted to say you'll enjoy it. Here's hoping.  sebmojo posted:That blog is a great read by the way, and has a bunch of quotes from doon for a bonus. This is a good find. Thank you. phasmid fucked around with this message at 19:33 on May 2, 2018 |
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May 2, 2018 19:27
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I live in a hot and dusty sort of a town, and that bit at the start of Dune where the Atreides soldiers are complaining about never having showers ever again, always makes me profoundly uncomfortable.
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May 2, 2018 19:32
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Ornamented Death posted:That's in the Brian Herbert sequels. To absolutely no one's surprise, it is handled poorly. Pall.
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May 2, 2018 20:15
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Paul is a Twunk
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May 2, 2018 21:39
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Improbable Lobster posted:Paul is a Twunk Feyd is a twank.
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May 2, 2018 22:42
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Dyna Soar posted:you would think an all-encopassing AI in a highly technological society would have other ways of loving with humanity than building killer robots but hey, i'm no scifi writer You're thinking of every episode of Black Mirror.
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May 2, 2018 23:56
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Paul Muad`Weed
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May 3, 2018 02:13
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sebmojo posted:Dance without rhythm like no-one's watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ7z57qrZU8 You won't attract the worm.
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May 3, 2018 02:30
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shai haluuuuuuuuuuuude
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May 3, 2018 02:45
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How does spice smuggling even work if all travel is Guild travel? Is it just sneaking the spice through customs and onto the orbital shuttles as lower-tariff items? Jadorowski's dune was going to have space pirate ships with rad psychedelic paint jobs, which is too awesome to be inconvenienced by trivialities like space travel not working like that in Dune. Hell, didn't he not even read the book, and just sort of skim it or read a synopsis? I seem to remember that from the documentary.
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May 3, 2018 03:23
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:How does spice smuggling even work if all travel is Guild travel? Is it just sneaking the spice through customs and onto the orbital shuttles as lower-tariff items? Jadorowski's dune was going to have space pirate ships with rad psychedelic paint jobs, which is too awesome to be inconvenienced by trivialities like space travel not working like that in Dune. First off heighliners are huge. No way can they pay attention to absolutely everything that goes on there. Second off the Guild has its own secret stashes of spice so you bet your rear end they're in on the smuggling game too. Third of spice is insanely valuable. Steal a few pounds of it and you're set for life. You can bet there are people sneaking into the storage to steal it, skimming off the top of legitimate shipments, or, you know...misplacing a box here or there.
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May 3, 2018 03:28
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I think the guild is the main buyer from smugglers
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May 3, 2018 03:29
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ToxicSlurpee posted:First off heighliners are huge. No way can they pay attention to absolutely everything that goes on there. I don't know about the first point because I think they say in the book that it's nigh impossible to put one over on the Guild, but maybe that was a character talking and not the narrator. The rest of what you said makes a lot of sense. In the Dune Encyclopedia the have a thing about how spice was apportioned in the empire and the Guild took a smaller share than the Emperor and the B.G. Presumably that's because of their special relationship with the spice and trying to conceal their powers from the Lansraad. The Guild permitting smuggling (maybe the Emperor knew about it too) fits in with them trying to get a bigger share, completely off the books. It's not like the stuff even gets tallied until it goes through CHOAM operatives. So like you say, a bit here, a bit there.
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May 3, 2018 03:33
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phasmid posted:I don't know about the first point because I think they say in the book that it's nigh impossible to put one over on the Guild, but maybe that was a character talking and not the narrator. I forget where I read it but the Fremen had a pretty good side hustle going when it came to smuggling spice. Since Dune saw a gently caress load of traffic and anybody who wasn't a Fremen had a hard time surviving in the desert or even tracking them in any way they just got away with it. Like really, who the hell was going to stop them? Dune is a pretty big home field advantage. With something as important as spice everybody is going to be in on that smuggling game in one way or another. That's especially true for those that can't exist without it.
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May 3, 2018 03:40
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ToxicSlurpee posted:I forget where I read it but the Fremen had a pretty good side hustle going when it came to smuggling spice. Since Dune saw a gently caress load of traffic and anybody who wasn't a Fremen had a hard time surviving in the desert or even tracking them in any way they just got away with it. Like really, who the hell was going to stop them? Dune is a pretty big home field advantage. With something as important as spice everybody is going to be in on that smuggling game in one way or another. That's especially true for those that can't exist without it. Maybe the Fremen and the Third Stage navs knew about it and that was their joke on everybody else. Fremen naibs certainly knew a good deal about offworld politics as far as they affected life in Arrakeen. Could be another reason they're so smug with non-natives.
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May 3, 2018 03:44
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