|
btw is there a good guide for starting v2 because God help me i reinstalled and i forgot how to play
|
#
?
May 2, 2018 00:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 16:11 |
|
|
Try this? https://lparchive.org/Victoria-II/
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2018 00:31
|
|
|
If the game had an event based or decision based way to annex uncivs in your sphere as you encroach on them (I know some exist, but generally so that it was more consistent), the game would be a bit more solid. Nothing more satisfying than freeing giant chunks of land to uncivs then swooping in five years later to take it for yourself.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2018 00:34
|
|
|
The Cheshire Cat posted:Yeah infamy is one of the things that tends to annoy me about the game, but I get why it's there - Victoria isn't meant to be a game about world conquest, at least, not through military means. I think the main issue with it is that the way it works is kind of dumb, where anything below 25 is fine, but with 25.1 infamy suddenly all your allies ditch you and everyone decides to declare containment wars. It would make a lot more sense if it was a more gradual thing, like how aggressive expansion works in EU4. Although relations themselves would probably have to be a bit more meaningful as well - in Vicky the numbers go from -200 to +200 but they might as well just be "hates me" "loves me" "is indifferent". Yeah, see, infamy is just how all Paradox games handled this (it was totally invisible until late in EU3's lifecycle, though). AE and Overextension are the systems they cooked up to replace it, to fix the exact problems you talk about here. Whatever sort of expansion limiter they go with V3, it's probably going to be a lot more nuanced than badboy. Ditto relations. I'm going to put a question mark on "isn't meant to be a game about world conquest", considering that this is the period of the largest empires in world history and their most rapid expansion. There was an unusual stability in Europe (though even there the map of 1936 is radically different to the map of 1836), but it wasn't characteristic of the entire planet.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2018 00:37
|
|
|
StashAugustine posted:btw is there a good guide for starting v2 because God help me i reinstalled and i forgot how to play When trying to relearn I went back to America since they’re basically the game on easy mode. They get an easy expansion by going historical (taking Texas and then manifest destiny). They’re super well protected and can sphere most of the new world. Only issue is pop up spam as the civil war starts to become inevitable. Autonomous Monster posted:Yeah, see, infamy is just how all Paradox games handled this (it was totally invisible until late in EU3's lifecycle, though). AE and Overextension are the systems they cooked up to replace it, to fix the exact problems you talk about here. Yeah, AE and overextension would fit well in Vicky. Honestly, taking the economy and pops from 2, and combining that with the war stuff from eu4 and you’d be almost at the Vicky 3 I’d want.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2018 00:52
|
|
|
While i see why it needed a different name once it was an actually visible variable i miss the days of people talking about "badboy" tbh
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2018 01:01
|
|
|
I hope it's Vicky 3 but I also hope it's an attempt at less mana
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2018 01:10
|
|
|
lol just lol if you play vic2 and dont have near maximum badboy.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2018 01:13
|
|
|
Yuran M. Bazil posted:While i see why it needed a different name once it was an actually visible variable i miss the days of people talking about "badboy" tbh 
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2018 03:59
|
|
|
Yuran M. Bazil posted:While i see why it needed a different name once it was an actually visible variable i miss the days of people talking about "badboy" tbh Pretty sure I remember in EU2 if you hovered over .. the country name in the country summary(???), it would call it badboy there. That was like 13 years ago now though so maybe I'm misremembering.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2018 04:20
|
|
|
well i played as brazil and turned it into a glorious socialist utopia; but i still don't have a clue how the economy works other than 'try not to get sphered, probably?'
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2018 09:00
|
|
|
StashAugustine posted:well i played as brazil and turned it into a glorious socialist utopia; but i still don't have a clue how the economy works other than 'try not to get sphered, probably?' Getting sphered can actually be good for you if you're a smaller nation (because you get access to your overlord's combined market), so... The short version is that the economy is good for two things - one is increasing the amount of stuff your people sell so that you can tax them, and two is buying your people all the useless fripperies they love. The two tie into each other - the more stuff people sell, the more stuff they can afford to buy. For this to work, both supply and demand are necessary - conquer or sphere nations that produce the resources your factories need to produce their poo poo, and conquer or sphere nations with large populations that will demand the goods you can produce. Sphering works in this regard because it produces a common market - sphere members sell and buy from each other before they sell and buy from the global market, so you get first dibs on the raw materials your sphere produces, and you can force your sphere members to buy their manufactured goods from you before looking at the global market. Everything else is mostly details. Mouse over your factories to check whether their bottleneck is insufficient raw materials, or inability to sell their finished goods and plan your expansion appropriately.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2018 10:05
|
|
|
Beamed posted:Pretty sure I remember in EU2 if you hovered over .. the country name in the country summary(???), it would call it badboy there. That was like 13 years ago now though so maybe I'm misremembering. Entirely plausible, i got into paradox with EU3 so i've never actually played EU2
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2018 10:42
|
|
|
really queer Christmas posted:lol just lol if you play vic2 and dont have near maximum badboy.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2018 12:16
|
|
|
A Buttery Pastry posted:??? Is there a maximum badboy? Yes there is, it's the limit you hit when you want to do a world conquest and you think you're strong enough to take on the entire world at once.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2018 14:21
|
|
|
StashAugustine posted:well i played as brazil and turned it into a glorious socialist utopia; but i still don't have a clue how the economy works other than 'try not to get sphered, probably?' This is pretty normal. Also as mentioned, getting sphered might not be a bad thing. There's no real obligation to being a sphereling so it's not like a forced defensive pact or anything (although it does prevent you from forming alliances with any GPs besides your sphere leader so it can have an impact if you're in a competitive region and get sphered by someone other than your preferred ally). Generally you don't need to interact too directly with the economy - even on planned economy the most you really need to do is build and upgrade some factories occasionally - it helps to build factories that will actually make money but since the relative value and scarcity of resources doesn't tend to vary too much from game to game you'll eventually get a good sense of what makes a good investment vs. what there's already way too much of (the AI loves to build glass factories which is why they are always going bankrupt).
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2018 23:41
|
|
|
You're a bit early america...
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2018 01:25
|
|
|
really queer Christmas posted:You're a bit early america... Clearly the Sherman Incident went a bit worse this timeline. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Sherman_incident
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2018 01:34
|
|
|
Way, waaay back in the thread, like years ago, someone suggested that Paradox had spheres backwards- as in, rather than spending political influence to gain economic access to a country, it would work better if the player gained political influence in a country proportional to their penetration into its economy. It's an idea that's stuck with me, because it suggests a game where the diplomatic aspects are a natural extension of the core economic play loop, rather than this separate, sort of arbitrary and abstract minigame that's off to one side.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2018 01:45
|
|
|
That sounds good and probably makes a lot of sense in Europe especially but it's funny you mention it directly after a couple of comments about imperialism in 19th century Asia since China, Japan, and Korea's examples were very much with the political influence coming first.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2018 01:58
|
|
|
Autonomous Monster posted:Way, waaay back in the thread, like years ago, someone suggested that Paradox had spheres backwards- as in, rather than spending political influence to gain economic access to a country, it would work better if the player gained political influence in a country proportional to their penetration into its economy. It's an idea that's stuck with me, because it suggests a game where the diplomatic aspects are a natural extension of the core economic play loop, rather than this separate, sort of arbitrary and abstract minigame that's off to one side. That's a really good idea. It sounds like it'd be more rewarding for diplomatic options to open up as you pour resources into minor nations, rather than an abstract "influence points" mechanic that's only used to open up a minor's economy. Sort of like (at a very basic level) how managing puppets works in HOI4 - by giving them stuff and building up their economy you draw them closer to you, but at the cost of making them more powerful in the meantime. I can imagine that the tricky part of it would be having the AI make reasonable demands or negotiations, though, especially if GPs can pour in both resources and money, and then getting competing GPs to handle that at the same time. The Narrator fucked around with this message at 02:02 on May 3, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 3, 2018 01:59
|
|
|
Influence increases with the amount of loans a country has taken, a bankrupty gives you an 
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2018 02:22
|
|
|
It might be good to have it as a two-way street. Economic influence gives you political influence, political influence can be expended to gain economic influence. Ah, but then you run into snowballing, so you'd need some kind of limiter on that.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2018 02:23
|
|
|
I just hope a potential V3 doesn't have the incredibly fiddly sphere mechanic where you have to fight against omnsicient AI and constantly micromanage them all.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2018 02:38
|
|
|
just beat up your rivals until they're no longer a great power no biggie
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2018 02:43
|
|
|
Influence is affected by how much investment you make in a minor's economy though? Building railroads or factories in a country is the easiest way to beat the AI in the sphere game. All it really needed was to make influencing those countries that disallowed foreign investment impossible, and then adding a threaten war option to force them to open up.
WhiskeyWhiskers fucked around with this message at 06:11 on May 3, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 3, 2018 06:07
|
|
|
Tomn posted:Yes there is, it's the limit you hit when you want to do a world conquest and you think you're strong enough to take on the entire world at once.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2018 06:16
|
|
|
really queer Christmas posted:When trying to relearn I went back to America since they’re basically the game on easy mode. They get an easy expansion by going historical (taking Texas and then manifest destiny). They’re super well protected and can sphere most of the new world. Only issue is pop up spam as the civil war starts to become inevitable. I really hope V3 does not have EUIV's war stuff.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2018 07:55
|
|
|
A favourite part of vic2 is fighting a particularly bitter war and realising that yes, hundreds of thousands of my people are now dead and need to be replaced somehow
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2018 09:21
|
|
|
it's so *inconvenient* i love it
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2018 09:22
|
|
|
it's pretty much the only paradox game where wartime casualties have an impact on your economy at large, which is great.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2018 09:38
|
|
|
my current game has seen germany so thoroughly devastated by repeated occupations and defeats and revolts that it's got a population comparable to spain and is currently in france's sphere
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2018 09:48
|
|
|
V. Illych L. posted:A favourite part of vic2 is fighting a particularly bitter war and realising that yes, hundreds of thousands of my people are now dead and need to be replaced somehow fighting early wars as china is  level when you think about it
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2018 09:49
|
|
|
V. Illych L. posted:A favourite part of vic2 is fighting a particularly bitter war and realising that yes, hundreds of thousands of my people are now dead and need to be replaced somehow I remember once playing as the US I noticed that my bureaucracy had grown out of control and slashed the bureaucratic budget drastically to change that. The result was that for the next twenty years there were repeated and regular armed uprisings of unemployed, starving bureaucrats seeking to overthrow the government. It only ended when all the excess bureaucrats were either dead or changed jobs.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2018 10:58
|
|
|
Goa Tse-tung posted:fighting early wars as china is To be fair, most wars in China have pretty much always been genocidal as hell.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2018 11:54
|
|
|
I think I'd just like an improved Victoria, I kinda like most of the systems. - Vassalage levels from HoI (Sphere to puppet to annexation) - Better westernization - Clearer overview of which troop type is best - more flexible infamy limits/thresholds - clearer way to influence politics Research with the inventions for example is a really cool system. As obscure as the economic part can be it's still pretty fun same as the pop system. Basically add some EU4 and HoI4 systems to the game (not the loving mana bars) and it's up to date.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2018 13:15
|
|
|
RagnarokZ posted:To be fair, most wars in China have pretty much always been genocidal as hell. I still can't believe 30 million people died in the Taiping rebellion.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2018 13:24
|
|
|
WhiskeyWhiskers posted:I still can't believe 30 million people died in the Taiping rebellion. Reading about that was one of the first times that I realised world history is way, way bigger and more interesting (/horrifying) than just eurocentric stuff. Even looking at the list of wars by death toll on Wikipedia a hell of a lot are China having yet another genocidal hellwar with itself. Taiping rebellion definitely takes the cake because more deaths than WW1 in a total war with Jesus' younger brother is just insane
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2018 14:00
|
|
|
Not the Messiah posted:Reading about that was one of the first times that I realised world history is way, way bigger and more interesting (/horrifying) than just eurocentric stuff. Even looking at the list of wars by death toll on Wikipedia a hell of a lot are China having yet another genocidal hellwar with itself. Taiping rebellion definitely takes the cake because more deaths than WW1 in a total war with Jesus' younger brother is just insane i hear people talk about how op china is in vic 3 and the way to fix that is to just accurately represent the Taiping rebellion and the numerous other wars and unrest that it produced. yeah you can shout about modenization all you want, when you have to put down ethnic rebellions every 5 years and the upperclasses refuse to cooperate with the reforms that would alleviate he conditions that cause them you can start to see why the warlord era happened.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2018 14:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 16:11 |
|
|
Tomn posted:I remember once playing as the US I noticed that my bureaucracy had grown out of control and slashed the bureaucratic budget drastically to change that. Torn suits, clutching their rifles yelling out "Paperwork or death!" as they charge confused and battered soldiers
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2018 17:22
|
|