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pangstrom posted:Or just aim for the center torso if it's a non-easy fight and you don't care about that mech model. (Though even just for $ it's better to have mech chunks highly-represented in salvage list, whether or not you want another Griffin or whatever) Yeah, that too, especially when you're fighting big swarms of lovely mechs. I kinda hope the sequel game is just clans, inter-clan squabbling. Then game 3 brings it all together.
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May 4, 2018 18:46
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, that too, especially when you're fighting big swarms of lovely mechs. Jade Falcon: The Bro Douchebags of the Clan Universe.
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May 4, 2018 18:49
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I still want 'Be A Lyran Social General' Simulator. Or a Succession War IV game at least before we get The Clans. poo poo I'd play a Battletech game that goes ham on the feudalism aspect. Be a lord and have to manage small territories in between riding out in your gleaming giant robot, and dive deep into Successor State politics.
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May 4, 2018 18:50
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Airspace posted:I still want 'Be A Lyran Social General' Simulator. Or a Succession War IV game at least before we get The Clans. mount and blade, but mechwarrior
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May 4, 2018 18:51
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Phi230 posted:I think Btech doesn't translate well to Mechwarrior. That's cause people complain if there's a cone-of-fire accuracy mechanic in a multiplayer game.
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May 4, 2018 18:51
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Ersatz posted:Maybe drop the totem animals thing. Just rewrite the lore so that they get the idea from watching Kerensky's prized stash of Legends of the Hidden Temple VHS tapes.
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May 4, 2018 18:51
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Mordja posted:I like the Clans's whole eugenics/caste/ritualistic combat thing, it makes them come off as culturally alien and makes them more "sci-fi" compared to the IS' Space Feudalism. Plus, reading the wiki, it sounds like they're a lot more disunified than it seems at first, and I'm pretty sure, like, half of them include a "this Clan has a less rigid society than others" caveat. kinda what i was talking about with the "poorly thought out on delivery and proceeded to age poorly." you know all the lovely kickstarter backers in this game with awful backstories? those are the Clans. every one more special and brilliant and dark pasted than the last
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May 4, 2018 18:52
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Bubbacub posted:That's cause people complain if there's a cone-of-fire accuracy mechanic in a multiplayer game. Pinpoint accurate weapons was MWO's original sin. Everything after that was them trying to re-balance to take account for the fact that you can put an alpha strike on the same location pretty trivially.
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May 4, 2018 18:53
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Clan bidding is stupid and impractical. "Hello I am here to attack you and take <thing that you value>. Please indicate the disposition of your forces, such that I can precisely calculate exactly how much effort to place into defeating you. Note that there is absolutely no chance, once you do this, of you ever winning because I will make sure I have just enough to cover any contingency." It assumes some very unlikely things: 1) Nobody in Clan history has chosen to rely on an overwhelming defensive advantage. Obviously an attacker couldn't possibly make an attack if the defender was like "Lol gently caress you shitstack we defend this world with 35 regiments of nuclear tipped cockhammers." There'd be no point, and the bidding process doesn't work if the only viable bid is "Literally everything we brought and then some more besides." And if this worked once, why not use it all the time? The Clans aren't spread out all over space- they have just a few planets each. So why not stack your armies up into impenetrable-shield levels and then give the finger to anyone who wants to come take your poo poo? The only way bidding down your attacks works is if everyone's defenses are implausibly low. Even when the loving entire Inner Sphere shows up for the War of Refusal, the clans are like "No we should give them a fair shot, they came all this way" and don't bother to defend with their goddamn impossible-to-beat warships. 2) Nobody ever just assassinates their opponents, or conducts industrial espionage, or has any kind of adversarial relationship that isn't conducted through ritualized combat. Even their committee meetings tend to devolve into some kind of duel because nobody has any other means of working out their differences. If they did, you'd probably see them get used a lot because not every fight is winnable through force of arms, and the underdogs would probably be playing to win anyway! So you can pretty much count on all of the decision making in Clantown being done by 20-year-olds with incredible twitch reflexes and nothing else. 4) Despite all of this, every time the Clans have a serious disagreement, they defend with all their poo poo and you basically attack with all your poo poo, which is exactly what the whole system was designed to avoid (but ironically is basically how every Clanfight ends up- see Falcon And Wolf for example). It also leaves both sides shockingly vulnerable to attack and absorption by everyone who wasn't stupid enough to commit all their poo poo to a slapfight, which- spoiler alert- happens several times throughout Clan history. 5) Not one defender in the history of the clans ever tried a dirty trick. These guys come into the Inner Sphere completely unprepared for people loving with the bidding process. Like, that would be the first thing that a serious defender who was forced to follow the bidding process would do! "Oh yeah we've got 4 mechs" and then fail to mention the buried tanks, field full of landmines, and weaponized anthrax you just happened to have laying around the battlefield. Yet somehow this never happens, and the Clans walk into the IS expecting straight up fisticuffs, Marquess of Queensbury rules. 6) Despite having a dueling culture, where political power derives from winning duels, not one piece of clan military equipment is actually designed to win duels. All of their weapons are straight up field combat machines, evolved from centuries-old designs but just better at it. In fact their actual dueling rules are basically "Stand at 100 paces from each other in the biggest can you can find and then proceed to trade shots. First one to get a headshot wins." This is even more spectacularly impractical than skill-based dueling! Now you're not even talking about the more skilled combatant being the winner, you're literally just doing luck-of-the-draw.
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May 4, 2018 18:53
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Airspace posted:I still want 'Be A Lyran Social General' Simulator. Or a Succession War IV game at least before we get The Clans. Lord Kurita has made his prize Orion a counsellor, and has tasked it with educating his children
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May 4, 2018 18:53
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Cyrano4747 posted:Pinpoint accurate weapons was MWO's original sin. Everything after that was them trying to re-balance to take account for the fact that you can put an alpha strike on the same location pretty trivially. On the other hand, pinpoint sniping in mwo was awesome
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May 4, 2018 18:54
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Looking forward to the create-a-clan in the next one. All blue eyed and blonde, perfectly crafted from the, you know, eugenics and purging of non-desirables. We'll be Clan Iron Eagle. That'll be cool.
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May 4, 2018 18:54
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VHGS posted:Just rewrite the lore so that they get the idea from watching Kerensky's prized stash of Legends of the Hidden Temple VHS tapes. Probably recorded over episodes of Where In The World Is Carmen San Diego?
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May 4, 2018 18:54
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Airspace posted:I still want 'Be A Lyran Social General' Simulator. Or a Succession War IV game at least before we get The Clans. CK2 BT mod?
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May 4, 2018 18:55
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VHGS posted:Just rewrite the lore so that they get the idea from watching Kerensky's prized stash of Legends of the Hidden Temple VHS tapes. Rewrite the lore so that the Star League army starved on death worlds, constantly harassed by feral guerrilla remnants of a failed early deep space colonization effort, who after years of Roanoke-style collapse captured all the Star League equipment and ships and cargo-culted the culture.
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May 4, 2018 18:56
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:On the other hand, pinpoint sniping in mwo was awesome The dumb thing is that they could have had it both ways by having an accuracy stat for weapons. A gauss rifle with a half a degree cone of fire would be an ideal sniping weapon, while an AC20 with a 20 degree cone isn't going to be all that great past knife fighting distances. You wouldn't even need to gently caress with damage fall off over distance because, hey, blapping out a random AC20 shot across some open map might just get you a lucky hit but it will probably just waste ammo.
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May 4, 2018 18:56
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Flavius Belisarius posted:Rewrite the lore so that the Star League army starved on death worlds, constantly harassed by feral guerrilla remnants of a failed early deep space colonization effort, who after years of Roanoke-style collapse captured all the Star League equipment and ships and cargo-culted the culture. This would be unironically good.
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May 4, 2018 18:57
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Xarbala posted:The clans are actually hypocrites who game their bidding system in such a way that ensures they waste more materiel than necessary, especially compared to the post-successor Wars inner sphere powers. They just shunt the cost of it to the vast majority of their populations, the laborers and technicians who keep their toumans stocked and functional. They claim to have developed a conlang designed to maximize efficiency in verbal communication yet forbid the use of contractions, the natural manifestation of efficiency in verbal language, and that's a microcosm for the clans in a nutshell. Ehhh... yes and no regarding the waste issue. There's a number of things to keep in mind when you're looking at clan warfare: 1) They basically did the whole 1st and 2nd Succession war damage to their limited industries in a few years while Nicolas was off creating his PERFECT HONOURABLE SOCIETY and it really scared them when it came to long-term viability 2) They were already a martial group in the first place. The Exodus was mostly SLDF military + support structures with their families. Also some science types for various reasons. But overall the exodus group was more or less used to 'support the military' from the get-go 3) Clan bidding and warfare is basically an example of why the Prisoner Dilemma doesn't work well over an unknown duration. Sure Clan Wacky Wabbit might gain an advantage by screwing over Clan Eager Beaver in this case, but that also means that the other clans were going to be less likely to grant them stuff like SafCon or even declare them as dezgra in future fights. 4) Very few clans could bring overwhelming force against another and even when this happens there were mechanisms by which resources could be conserved. A token opposition is both possible and honorable (and of course worth a line in their Remembrance if the warrior won). This of course ties into 3. 5) The clans at the time of Operation Revival have been doing this for centuries now. It's become a religion of sorts to them now with some being more hardcore about it than others. and finally 6) Most of this goes out the window within a decade or so of being exposed to the Inner Sphere, culminating with the Wars of Reaving, which are basically "I'm More Hardcore Than You, Clan Edition' (Also a very elaborate Serial Murder-Suicide by Steel Viper)
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May 4, 2018 18:57
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CommieGIR posted:Probably recorded over episodes of Where In The World Is Carmen San Diego? Truly Kerensky's greatest crime.
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May 4, 2018 18:57
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Sarsapariller posted:6) Despite having a dueling culture, where political power derives from winning duels, not one piece of clan military equipment is actually designed to win duels. All of their weapons are straight up field combat machines, evolved from centuries-old designs but just better at it. In fact their actual dueling rules are basically "Stand at 100 paces from each other in the biggest can you can find and then proceed to trade shots. First one to get a headshot wins." This is even more spectacularly impractical than skill-based dueling! Now you're not even talking about the more skilled combatant being the winner, you're literally just doing luck-of-the-draw. This is actually a regret of one of the older BT line developers. He's said that if he had the chance, he would have redone the Clans' weaponry and mech design to better reflect a dueling aesthetic, with an emphasis on short range instead of long, and instead of generally reflecting the idea of "Inner Sphere but with technological advancement".
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May 4, 2018 18:57
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Airspace posted:I still want 'Be A Lyran Social General' Simulator. Or a Succession War IV game at least before we get The Clans. shocking news, my lord, Dekker tried to have me killed to make sure I wouldn't discover his plot to kill Dekker yours, Dekker
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May 4, 2018 18:58
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Speaking of dumb things about the clans, I thought that the totem animals were the peak stupid thing. The obvious choice for something cool is to have each major clan trace their linage back to a SLDF unit and have them named something appropriate. The Eridini Light Horse was basically a SLDF unit that didn't run away with Kerensky, so why not have the rest of them have retained their original identities? Plus, having all these dudes come back under the SLDF flag would have been a LOT neater than what we got.
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May 4, 2018 19:02
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I don't know if the 4th SW would be a good fit for this game, but I could see the Ronin Wars where Rasalhague got independence and immediately got invaded by rogue Combine soldiers being a good, solid setting for a smaller merc unit doing their thing.
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May 4, 2018 19:02
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CommieGIR posted:Jade Falcon: The Bro Douchebags of the Clan Universe. Anyway, then the first Battletech game I ever played was Mechcommander and I remember being disappointed that I couldn't play as the cool faction.
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May 4, 2018 19:02
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Cyrano4747 posted:Speaking of dumb things about the clans, I thought that the totem animals were the peak stupid thing. The obvious choice for something cool is to have each major clan trace their linage back to a SLDF unit and have them named something appropriate. The Eridini Light Horse was basically a SLDF unit that didn't run away with Kerensky, so why not have the rest of them have retained their original identities? How else were they supposed to play copies of Indian Nation by Paul Revere and the Raiders while strutting around in Mechs and take themselves seriously? Cyrano4747 posted:Truly Kerensky's greatest crime. Thankfully his copies of All That remain lostech.
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May 4, 2018 19:04
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Cyrano4747 posted:Speaking of dumb things about the clans, I thought that the totem animals were the peak stupid thing. The obvious choice for something cool is to have each major clan trace their linage back to a SLDF unit and have them named something appropriate. The Eridini Light Horse was basically a SLDF unit that didn't run away with Kerensky, so why not have the rest of them have retained their original identities?
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May 4, 2018 19:05
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Anyway, Ulric Kerensky seems like a pretty swell guy.
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May 4, 2018 19:05
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Xotl posted:This is actually a regret of one of the older BT line developers. He's said that if he had the chance, he would have redone the Clans' weaponry and mech design to better reflect a dueling aesthetic, with an emphasis on short range instead of long, and instead of generally reflecting the idea of "Inner Sphere but with technological advancement". This would be neat - if they tried relaunching/redoing the lore or history of the clans the fanbase would tear itself (and them) apart - but if the creators decided to just redo some of the clan tech that but keep the lore in place then that might be palatable. Just make it moddable so the super invested people could mod in their boring old clan tech because nothing must ever change or be balanced.
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May 4, 2018 19:05
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Xotl posted:This is actually a regret of one of the older BT line developers. He's said that if he had the chance, he would have redone the Clans' weaponry and mech design to better reflect a dueling aesthetic, with an emphasis on short range instead of long, and instead of generally reflecting the idea of "Inner Sphere but with technological advancement". It would have made a lot more sense and actually explained why a culture that had its poo poo together and was hundreds of years more advanced in technology didn't have an overwhelming invasion advantage. One of the more amusing parts of the existing duel culture of the Clans is the complete inconsistence in terms of scale. For inter-Clan fights, they basically compare armies and then set a field of operations of one or more planets, then conduct warfare exactly as you normally would. But for Clan vs IS, they all roll up to individual planets and then proceed to get loving owned in random honor duels by the local garrison. Why don't they ask what the whole Draconis Combine can field in its defense, declare the entire IS as the combat zone, then do the usual bid-and-invade with their force? (The answer is: it would make it much harder for the writers to eke out heroic victories if they did that.) Then down at the individual level, it gets more absurd. Everyone gets to bring whatever their favorite weapon is to the table! Elemental people get to wear their armor suit while dueling with aerospace people who get to bring their space fighter. "I'm gonna duel you, machine gun and short range rockets vs orbital bombs at dawn!" Yet somehow everyone in any position of political authority earned via duel is a mech jockey. You'd think that if everyone is bringing their own poo poo to a fight, the people flying the unstoppable Clan spaceships would probably end up winning the majority. You know, the ones weighing thousands of tons with weapons capable of glassing a planet? But for some reason nobody ever duels those guys.
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May 4, 2018 19:05
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Cyrano4747 posted:Speaking of dumb things about the clans, I thought that the totem animals were the peak stupid thing. The obvious choice for something cool is to have each major clan trace their linage back to a SLDF unit and have them named something appropriate. The Eridini Light Horse was basically a SLDF unit that didn't run away with Kerensky, so why not have the rest of them have retained their original identities? I think they avoided that because there was a bit of a desire to sever past relationships with the inner sphere. After all a lot of the fighting that broke out in the Pentagon Worlds was because they reverted back to the old Davion/Liao/Kurita/Marik/Steiner divisions.
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May 4, 2018 19:05
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Xotl posted:This is actually a regret of one of the older BT line developers. He's said that if he had the chance, he would have redone the Clans' weaponry and mech design to better reflect a dueling aesthetic, with an emphasis on short range instead of long, and instead of generally reflecting the idea of "Inner Sphere but with technological advancement". this also would allow for some nice historical recaps. if we're being really cute we can even name the planet *hastily wikipedias alternate names for where Agincourt was* Artois some Clan bigwig showing up and dropping a full assault company, only to discover that the cowards, the fools, the absolute cheating little shits' first action was to put four hundred LRMs into his grill
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May 4, 2018 19:06
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Ersatz posted:Yeah, that really would have been much better. Are there any indications that the developers are going to retcon parts of the lore this time around? As much as I think clan lore is supremely dumb I doubt they could. The steam reviews alone would be like, MOSTLY NEGATIVE. Top review: "They have betrayed 30+ years of lore and loyalty...." Time in game: 398 Hours.
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May 4, 2018 19:06
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Mordja posted:Anyway, Ulric Kerensky seems like a pretty swell guy. "Okay guys, Star League is toasted by power and corruption, let's get out of here" A Few Years Later: "YOU loving FUCKS, WHAT DID I JUST SAY? Do-over! Do it right this time!" A Few Years Later: "FUUUUUUCKKKK!"
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May 4, 2018 19:07
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DurosKlav posted:I like the Hunchbacks because its what I used a lot in Battletech the Frontier Lands MUX. That game so much fun. Holy poo poo, someone else who actually played Bad ASCII Robots. It was great fun, and it's amazing how fifteen-plus years ago a couple of crazies coded up a real time (mostly) tabletop-accurate Battletech game using only ASCII characters.
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May 4, 2018 19:09
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 Lincoln Osis pities the foo' that Step on Strana Mechty.
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May 4, 2018 19:10
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botany posted:i own this game on GOG galaxy and the most recent update is taking forevvverrrrrrr to install. is this normal or should i restart / reinstall / something else
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May 4, 2018 19:10
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I have an amazing mechwarrior now with a Russian accent, very pessimistic all the time. Stomping around in an Orion and one arm gets stripped of armor. "I'm going to die"
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May 4, 2018 19:11
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CommieGIR posted:"Okay guys, Star League is toasted by power and corruption, let's get out of here" Last few times didn't work... and our worlds are a pile of nuclear radiation... but what if - just hear me out, okay? Animals. What if we adopted animals.
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May 4, 2018 19:12
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To be honest I'm surprised there hasn't been a reboot/revamp of the whole TT plot/mechanics after 30 years, especially when the license was languishing for a bit in the mid 00s. World of Darkness (Vampire:TM, basically) had a reboot right around the time the game came out.
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May 4, 2018 19:12
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CommieGIR posted:"Okay guys, Star League is toasted by power and corruption, let's get out of here" Wrong Kerensky...
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May 4, 2018 19:16
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