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Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Sazabi posted:

That jump cut from right outside town, despite the locking out low lvl players from piloting in the desert, with the Ninja girl "unconscious" to several miles away with her tied up next to the only rock for hundreds of miles around. Did they explain the situation to Riku? Did they follow a vapor trail? Why not just crush them once they walked out of the city.

While I agree with the first few parts, the reason they bailed is probably because the real Shahryar was right there and gently caress facing him. Nevermind every other talented builder in the city a stone's throw away who know they're scam artists.


Sazabi posted:

And how do people eat in that world?

It's almost certainly the good ol' download-your-brain style of "immersion" VR. Just eat what you want for the taste, gorge on snacks as you please, and have no guilt whatsoever about gaining weight :shrug:.

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Sazabi
Feb 15, 2014

A-MA-ZON!!

Neddy Seagoon posted:

While I agree with the first few parts, the reason they bailed is probably because the real Shahryar was right there and gently caress facing him. Nevermind every other talented builder in the city a stone's throw away who know they're scam artists.


It's almost certainly the good ol' download-your-brain style of "immersion" VR. Just eat what you want for the taste, gorge on snacks as you please, and have no guilt whatsoever about gaining weight :shrug:.

Counter point. They don't Know who the real Shahryar is till the Seravee shows up. Not to mention they started the rumor that Shahryar was coming in the first place.


But we see the VR. It's a visor and head phones with two joysticks and maybe some foot pedals.

Schubalts
Nov 26, 2007

People say bigger is better.

But for the first time in my life, I think I've gone too far.
Not wanting to bring down the wrath of every single other builder in the city is a good enough reason on its own to try to lure Riku out into the open desert (the city is neutral ground, meant to be free from battle so people can display their gunplay, as well), and it would be easy enough for Riku to head in a straight line and follow them. And if they made it to the city in the first place, then they clearly have a way to travel the desert, you know?


The game stimulates all of your senses. There's food in every MMO ever made, but here the player can actually taste it when their avatar chows down. Eat because it's tasty.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
I guess it’s like the Nerve Gear in Sword Art Online, which was also a headset that hijacked your entire sensory suite. This one’s significantly less likely to murder you, though.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND

Darth Walrus posted:

I guess it’s like the Nerve Gear in Sword Art Online, which was also a headset that hijacked your entire sensory suite. This one’s significantly less likely to murder you, though.

As far as we know. There's still a lot we haven't seen of GBN...

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Darth Walrus posted:

I guess it’s like the Nerve Gear in Sword Art Online, which was also a headset that hijacked your entire sensory suite. This one’s significantly less likely to murder you, though.

Sazabi posted:

But we see the VR. It's a visor and head phones with two joysticks and maybe some foot pedals.

I'd actually say the joysticks and footpedals are for little more than "place your limbs out of the way here" rather than any actual direct input, seeing how (relatively) little of GBN is actual Gunpla-battling. There's also people actually feeling the environment around them like they're actually there, nevermind stuff like tasting food, and leaving the game seems to be a bit more involved than just removing the headset and stepping away from the machine.

Plus Sarah's almost certainly wandered in from Arian, or at least an equivalent if there's no direct relation to BF, and wound up in the game world instead of the real one.

Sazabi
Feb 15, 2014

A-MA-ZON!!

Neddy Seagoon posted:

seeing how little of GBN is actual Gunpla-battling.

It doesn't feel completely contradictory. But more inconsistent. If one episode is devoted to a furry teaching these kids that GBN isn't the real world, yet everyone insists on doing normal real world stuff. If it's a fantasy VR maybe play up the fantasy instead of eating at a McDonalds.

And even though this show is 40% exposition for game mechanics. I don't know if player level is a relative thing like most games assign a number and restrict or reward states based on that lvl. Or do they mean a more abstract lvl of skill. Like speed runners are on a different lvl from someone who plays casually after work for an hour.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Sazabi posted:

It doesn't feel completely contradictory. But more inconsistent. If one episode is devoted to a furry teaching these kids that GBN isn't the real world, yet everyone insists on doing normal real world stuff. If it's a fantasy VR maybe play up the fantasy instead of eating at a McDonalds.

And even though this show is 40% exposition for game mechanics. I don't know if player level is a relative thing like most games assign a number and restrict or reward states based on that lvl. Or do they mean a more abstract lvl of skill. Like speed runners are on a different lvl from someone who plays casually after work for an hour.

There is an actual numerical player rank. Magee is like #23 in the whole network or something. It seems to be like a leaderboard or ladder ranking system rather than a normal MMO level. You accrue points by winning battles(fat kid tried to gank them to get points and cowboy dude was going around smoking people to build his rank) and can presumably lose points by getting dunked on.

They mention vaguely in the current ep that low level players aren't allowed to fly around in their gunpla in Perisia, but later in the ep they get into Shahryar's gunpla without a problem, so not sure what's going on there. Maybe they're not allowed to use their own but can use someone else's, or maybe it's a softer thing where low level players and newbies will get ganked by higher ranks if they fly around Perisia without permission. :shrug:

Guy Goodbody
Aug 31, 2016

by Nyc_Tattoo
It is kinda odd that so far almost all of their fights have been with bad guys. Like, cheaters and assholes. The cowboy guy was the only antagonist who seemed to be having fun.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Ogre guy wasn't really a bad guy. Maybe a bit of an rear end, but he is looking to enjoy himself.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Guy Goodbody posted:

It is kinda odd that so far almost all of their fights have been with bad guys. Like, cheaters and assholes. The cowboy guy was the only antagonist who seemed to be having fun.

This is totally on point with online gaming. There's a huge amount of people who play online games just to watch their numbers go up or to gently caress with other people rather than because they actually enjoy the game.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



Kanos posted:

They mention vaguely in the current ep that low level players aren't allowed to fly around in their gunpla in Perisia, but later in the ep they get into Shahryar's gunpla without a problem, so not sure what's going on there. Maybe they're not allowed to use their own but can use someone else's, or maybe it's a softer thing where low level players and newbies will get ganked by higher ranks if they fly around Perisia without permission. :shrug:

I read that as they couldn't bring a gunpla into the zone, but they could use one someone else brought there if the owner gave them permission to use it.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Kanos posted:

There is an actual numerical player rank. Magee is like #23 in the whole network or something. It seems to be like a leaderboard or ladder ranking system rather than a normal MMO level. You accrue points by winning battles(fat kid tried to gank them to get points and cowboy dude was going around smoking people to build his rank) and can presumably lose points by getting dunked on.

Based on what they've said so far, it's just a general ranking bracket system. The central cast are all Rank D right now, which is newbie-tier. Magee's ranked number #23 because he's gonna be something like the #23 Rank-A or S player where you're actually splitting fine hairs over who's rank is what in the tiny Rank A/S bracket, compared to Rank D Player #2,564,343 moving up to #2,564,342 on the Rank D leaderboard because they completed a mission.

amigolupus
Aug 25, 2017

I like that Tigerwolf apparently ran all the way from his server to Perisia just because he loving hates Shahryar that much. He didn't even use his Gunpla to get there, the doofus.

Schubalts posted:

I hope Patrick keeps being in each episode. :allears:

I hope Patrick enrolling in Tigerwolf's dojo goes to its logical conclusion and has him performing a Sekiha Love Love Tenkyoken with Kati. :allears:

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~
The logical conclusion is Kati rescuing him from an overwhelming Mass Diver attack while wearing a dashing outfit, and then Patrick putting on a red cape she has to cover his nudity before said Sekiha Love Love Tenkyoken. I can't decide whether they should be standing atop a God Enact custom, a God GN-X custom or some kind of Katheron ship custom while doing it though.

Zodack
Aug 3, 2014
For me there was absolutely nothing to like about the most recent episode other than the Gunpla showcase and the admittedly very clever detail-with-visual-example of building your parts wrong translating directly to poor performance.

Ironic how they acted tired from walking in the desert when literally an episode ago they covered that you don't grow physically tired in GBN - though I'm sure you can attribute that to mental boredom. Also incredibly difficult for me to care about any "dire" situation that doesn't include Mass Divers. You got tied up by some really obvious crooks, how dangerous, except you're in a game, don't have your gunpla or anything for them to steal, and can just log out... presumably? What's the danger, you get griefed and lose some rank?

I wish more anime that play the MMO angle would fully embrace it. As it stands it's hard to get on board with a lot of the current antics because half the time they want to meticulously explain the systems and the other half they go out the window. Mass Divers get to break that rule and create panic but they're starting to feel like a crutch. Today's enemy is ALSO a Mass Diver! Who woulda thought?

At least Frito Bandito Gundam wasn't. He was rad, but we'll never get a kit of that.

I really want to like this because Build Fighters was special and I was hoping they'd rebound after Tri.

Sazabi
Feb 15, 2014

A-MA-ZON!!
Build and tri had the steaks raised with a tournament and breaking your gunpla. Even though everyone could fix any damage overnight unless plot got in the way. With Dive being an mmo and the main kids having zero guidance till now takes away any investment in their fights.
Doesn't help that they lost every fight save against the fat bully only to be saved by someone else. And it's looking like the series both character wise and interesting battles.

Build cheated but most of the cast was likeable.
Tri was an argument for why G Gundam would win in a crossover with the U.C. timeline. With below average to full on sexual predators.
Dive is two special needs kids playing the most generic rpg on the easiest difficulty. Everyone intsantly likes them. Finds them interesting with amazing hidden potential. While all of the fights are scrpited like a tutorial where an NPC swoops in to save the day.

Can't wait for next week when the someone is impressed with Riku for being a nice guy with a new character winning their fight for them once Riku comprehends a new emotion.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled
Try had many of the same issues, except replace being saved by other people with being saved by the insane build quality of the magical super special snowflake gunpla that Sekai found completely randomly. Remember when the Snapfit Destiny palm beamed the Build Burning directly in the face early on and Sekai shrugged it off and won?

I believe I understand what Divers is trying to do. I think it's trying to introduce a supporting cast and give them some characterization to provide opponents that we recognize and maybe give an ounce of a poo poo about as the story progresses, while simultaneously explaining game mechanics along the way. On some level this is a noble goal, since one of the biggest things Try did wrong compared to GBF was not giving the side characters any room to breathe or make the audience give a poo poo about them. The problem is that GBF introduced and fleshed out its side characters with interesting battles of their own and generally made Sei and Reiji earn their respect and assistance, whereas Riku and company have mostly been coasting on invitations from Magee so far and the battles haven't been particularly interesting.

Now that they've decided to form their own Force hopefully we're done with the kids getting their hands held.

Sazabi
Feb 15, 2014

A-MA-ZON!!
I already said it Tri had one op Gundam that would lose until it decided to win. But at least the other two were given someone to fight more often than not. Build had the same issue of one op robot that either pulled bullshit Superman powers out of its rear end. Remember when Sei had to explain that the shield not only negated any beam, but could then use it to make the gun into a colony laser. And also little yellow triangles would pop out of it and make you super strong and fast or can be a whip because reasons. Not to mention the cheating that took place prior to the upgrade. Dive doesn't have interesting fights it simply holds to the Gundam universe that Gundam are stronger than everyone else so stop bringing grunt suits to our op magnum magic game.

Besides Richardo and Ral none of Build was full of assholes who sofened up after losing. With character development that didn't really make them interesting.

Tri had the big sister who had her own life but spent time with the main group cause she was a good sister. Sleggar showed up and hit on women. Boom! 10/10 character right there. Sadly Tri also had that rapey creeper tryion who really should have been killed off.

Dive has a very nice and pretty lady Mcgee. And the secret Nazi ferret. There are no other characters only tutorial NPCs. If cardboard Riku and Gundampedia other kid ever fight these NPCs they should lose because all of them have been set up as the top players in the world. But the show seems averse to making the kids grow through defeat so they'll probably win or fight to a draw.

I don't understand how anyone can view any of these shows as amazing. Entertaining at times sure. Every show has been flawed in different ways. This time round the redemption is in good mech designs and one fabulous character and her secret identity.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Sazabi posted:

Remember when Sei had to explain that the shield not only negated any beam, but could then use it to make the gun into a colony laser. And also little yellow triangles would pop out of it and make you super strong and fast or can be a whip because reasons. Not to mention the cheating that took place prior to the upgrade.

You mean the particle-absorbing shield that literally everyone started targeting and destroying once they figured out the gimmick? And did squat to stop solid rounds?

Caphi
Jan 6, 2012

INCREDIBLE

Kanos posted:

Try had many of the same issues, except replace being saved by other people with being saved by the insane build quality of the magical super special snowflake gunpla that Sekai found completely randomly. Remember when the Snapfit Destiny palm beamed the Build Burning directly in the face early on and Sekai shrugged it off and won?

I believe I understand what Divers is trying to do. I think it's trying to introduce a supporting cast and give them some characterization to provide opponents that we recognize and maybe give an ounce of a poo poo about as the story progresses, while simultaneously explaining game mechanics along the way. On some level this is a noble goal, since one of the biggest things Try did wrong compared to GBF was not giving the side characters any room to breathe or make the audience give a poo poo about them. The problem is that GBF introduced and fleshed out its side characters with interesting battles of their own and generally made Sei and Reiji earn their respect and assistance, whereas Riku and company have mostly been coasting on invitations from Magee so far and the battles haven't been particularly interesting.

Now that they've decided to form their own Force hopefully we're done with the kids getting their hands held.

The thing is that Divers is trying to be a worldbuilding specfic show and a plucky underdog sports show at the same time and it's somehow splitting the difference poorly and half-assing both.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Kirara was the best character in BF and also a good example of why it was good.

Sazabi
Feb 15, 2014

A-MA-ZON!!
Was she the pink haired idol? Remind me what was great about her?

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012

Sazabi posted:

Was she the pink haired idol? Remind me what was great about her?

She was smart, ambitious, and took very little poo poo from the gundam dudes, and wasn’t villainised for it. That bit where she tried to cheat her way past Sei and Reiji and the latter was just impressed by her determination to achieve her dream was a pretty good start.

Guy Goodbody
Aug 31, 2016

by Nyc_Tattoo

Sazabi posted:

Was she the pink haired idol? Remind me what was great about her?

Yeah. She started out just seeing Gunpla as a shortcut to fame as an idol but then learned to love Gunpla. It was a nice little arc for what could've been a villain of the week, and her relationship with Felini made both characters more rounded and interesting.

Lurking Haro
Oct 27, 2009

Sazabi posted:

Was she the pink haired idol? Remind me what was great about her?

Yes, the idol. I mainly remember her as Ricardo's love interest.

Ricardo giving away impromptu gunpla to woo women :allears:

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Everything others have said is true, and she used a Gerbera Tetra which marks her as having good taste.

Sazabi
Feb 15, 2014

A-MA-ZON!!
Forgot about that whole thing till now. And the Gundam cuddles. https://blog-001.west.edge.storage-yahoo.jp/res/blog-8d-e6/saranndonn/folder/1833465/58/68915958/img_5?1464021110 yeah she was great.

Hope Momo ends up being as good a character. Since she's the only of the main who hasn't pissed me off or suffering from personality loss. She's consistently animated. Secretly badass with a kapool. And hopefully pilots a zeon penguin next episode.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Sazabi posted:

I already said it Tri had one op Gundam that would lose until it decided to win. But at least the other two were given someone to fight more often than not. Build had the same issue of one op robot that either pulled bullshit Superman powers out of its rear end. Remember when Sei had to explain that the shield not only negated any beam, but could then use it to make the gun into a colony laser. And also little yellow triangles would pop out of it and make you super strong and fast or can be a whip because reasons. Not to mention the cheating that took place prior to the upgrade. Dive doesn't have interesting fights it simply holds to the Gundam universe that Gundam are stronger than everyone else so stop bringing grunt suits to our op magnum magic game.

Besides Richardo and Ral none of Build was full of assholes who sofened up after losing. With character development that didn't really make them interesting.

Tri had the big sister who had her own life but spent time with the main group cause she was a good sister. Sleggar showed up and hit on women. Boom! 10/10 character right there. Sadly Tri also had that rapey creeper tryion who really should have been killed off.

Dive has a very nice and pretty lady Mcgee. And the secret Nazi ferret. There are no other characters only tutorial NPCs. If cardboard Riku and Gundampedia other kid ever fight these NPCs they should lose because all of them have been set up as the top players in the world. But the show seems averse to making the kids grow through defeat so they'll probably win or fight to a draw.

I don't understand how anyone can view any of these shows as amazing. Entertaining at times sure. Every show has been flawed in different ways. This time round the redemption is in good mech designs and one fabulous character and her secret identity.

Your posts are really hard to parse, so forgive me if I misinterpret some of what you're saying.

Sei's particle absorber shield had pretty concrete rules that were established the moment it was first used and once he used it in combat once it was immediately targeted and destroyed by pretty much every subsequent opponent before he could use it. It was actually a really good way to portray his opponents as smart and capable of learning because they explicitly didn't let him use his easily counterable superweapon against them. Even antagonist-of-the-week Luang Dallara - a guy who got pretty much no development beyond "is a baseball player" - was smart enough to only use missiles against them until the shield broke. It's not a good example of a broken main character gimmick because it actually added tactics to the fights, such as Fellini using the terrain against them until the shield broke because he couldn't shoot them directly.

Basically the entire Build Fighters cast except for Ral, Rinko, and China was introduced and developed through fights and their preparations for fights. Nils is shown to not really give a poo poo about gunpla initially because he offers to take a fall in exchange for information. Beneath Fellini's dorky playboy persona he's a guy who's been chasing his dream with the same gunpla his entire life to the point where it's more than a piece of plastic and it's basically his friend. Meijin refuses to fight dirty just to get the win like the previous Meijin, he fights to have fun and put on a show so he can show people how fun gunpla fighting can be. Aila fights mechanically and boredly because she's being pushed into doing this just to make ends' meet and the first time she's shown to actually have fun is during her final fight with Reiji. These are all really clear, concise character development points that are done through battles or how the characters react to battles.

They had an entire episode involving Riku getting depressed about getting his rear end beat by Ogre, and the kids lost to random cowboy guy pretty convincingly before getting bailed out. I'm really not sure where you're getting "the show seems averse to making the kids grow through defeat" because one of my criticisms of it so far is that the kids simply lose constantly under the own power and haven't been allowed to achieve anything on their own since their fight with the fat kid, they just go and get bodied and then get saved by Super Cool Guy Of The Week repeatedly.

GBF has some of the very best fight choreography in the entire Gundam franchise. Whether or not the setting or characters do anything for you, the fights are nearly unmatched in any Gundam show. The fact that those fights are tied to relatively competent character building and an entertaining sports story that manages to not disappear up its own rear end in a top hat puts it in the top 10% of the entire Gundam mythos for me.

Sazabi
Feb 15, 2014

A-MA-ZON!!

Kanos posted:

Your posts are really hard to parse, so forgive me if I misinterpret some of what you're saying.

Sei's particle absorber shield had pretty concrete rules that were established the moment it was first used and once he used it in combat once it was immediately targeted and destroyed by pretty much every subsequent opponent before he could use it. It was actually a really good way to portray his opponents as smart and capable of learning because they explicitly didn't let him use his easily counterable superweapon against them. Even antagonist-of-the-week Luang Dallara - a guy who got pretty much no development beyond "is a baseball player" - was smart enough to only use missiles against them until the shield broke. It's not a good example of a broken main character gimmick because it actually added tactics to the fights, such as Fellini using the terrain against them until the shield broke because he couldn't shoot them directly.

Basically the entire Build Fighters cast except for Ral, Rinko, and China was introduced and developed through fights and their preparations for fights. Nils is shown to not really give a poo poo about gunpla initially because he offers to take a fall in exchange for information. Beneath Fellini's dorky playboy persona he's a guy who's been chasing his dream with the same gunpla his entire life to the point where it's more than a piece of plastic and it's basically his friend. Meijin refuses to fight dirty just to get the win like the previous Meijin, he fights to have fun and put on a show so he can show people how fun gunpla fighting can be. Aila fights mechanically and boredly because she's being pushed into doing this just to make ends' meet and the first time she's shown to actually have fun is during her final fight with Reiji. These are all really clear, concise character development points that are done through battles or how the characters react to battles.

They had an entire episode involving Riku getting depressed about getting his rear end beat by Ogre, and the kids lost to random cowboy guy pretty convincingly before getting bailed out. I'm really not sure where you're getting "the show seems averse to making the kids grow through defeat" because one of my criticisms of it so far is that the kids simply lose constantly under the own power and haven't been allowed to achieve anything on their own since their fight with the fat kid, they just go and get bodied and then get saved by Super Cool Guy Of The Week repeatedly.

GBF has some of the very best fight choreography in the entire Gundam franchise. Whether or not the setting or characters do anything for you, the fights are nearly unmatched in any Gundam show. The fact that those fights are tied to relatively competent character building and an entertaining sports story that manages to not disappear up its own rear end in a top hat puts it in the top 10% of the entire Gundam mythos for me.

Sorry if I'm hard to understand. Talking about all three shows at same time first thing in morning maybe isn't a great idea. Lemme try and clear up my point/view. Fellini is great. Is gunpla is at that sweet spot of custom enough to feed new while obvious enough to recognize the base model. Every fight he's in is fought and resolved without breaking the rules. Either through skill power or an established ability, he wins or loses.

Almost everyone else seems to break the rules or come up with previously unmentioned super power. (Except Maoh who just satellite Canon's everything, which is fine, that's what I'd do with a Gundam X) Sei with the RG system and those yellow arrows. Papillon with invisible funnels that are only destroyed once you can see them. (Fuzzy on this point. But I think Fellini discovers them but doesn't destroy them).

And Nils with his "by studying plavsky particles I can go full weeabo with Hanzo steel. The first fight he has with a tallgeese 3 is just Nils acting like kindergartner with nu uh I blocked your laser with my swords. And the I swing my swords super strong like this. *Woosh* do they become unlockable super strong lasers and also it's homing so you can't dodge it either."

It comes off as lazy magic every time time Nils fought because instead of a melee specialist like a Gyan, his Astray would act more like a super robot from TTGL. I guess it's just personal taste for me. I want the normal Fellini fights and the SRW special moves dues ex fights to be in separate shows.

Am I so incredibly wrong? I haven't Build since it aired so maybe I need to go back and give it another try. Or maybe it's just not for me. On a semi related note. Turns out Tri got a English dub. And someone thought Sekai would be more likable if he had the voice of a middle-aged Australian woman. Doing her best.

Raxivace
Sep 9, 2014

Replacing Sekai with a middle-aged Australian woman just trying to do her best is a bold choice I can get behind.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Sazabi posted:

Sorry if I'm hard to understand. Talking about all three shows at same time first thing in morning maybe isn't a great idea. Lemme try and clear up my point/view. Fellini is great. Is gunpla is at that sweet spot of custom enough to feed new while obvious enough to recognize the base model. Every fight he's in is fought and resolved without breaking the rules. Either through skill power or an established ability, he wins or loses.

Almost everyone else seems to break the rules or come up with previously unmentioned super power. (Except Maoh who just satellite Canon's everything, which is fine, that's what I'd do with a Gundam X) Sei with the RG system and those yellow arrows. Papillon with invisible funnels that are only destroyed once you can see them. (Fuzzy on this point. But I think Fellini discovers them but doesn't destroy them).

And Nils with his "by studying plavsky particles I can go full weeabo with Hanzo steel. The first fight he has with a tallgeese 3 is just Nils acting like kindergartner with nu uh I blocked your laser with my swords. And the I swing my swords super strong like this. *Woosh* do they become unlockable super strong lasers and also it's homing so you can't dodge it either."

It comes off as lazy magic every time time Nils fought because instead of a melee specialist like a Gyan, his Astray would act more like a super robot from TTGL. I guess it's just personal taste for me. I want the normal Fellini fights and the SRW special moves dues ex fights to be in separate shows.

Am I so incredibly wrong? I haven't Build since it aired so maybe I need to go back and give it another try. Or maybe it's just not for me. On a semi related note. Turns out Tri got a English dub. And someone thought Sekai would be more likable if he had the voice of a middle-aged Australian woman. Doing her best.

Aila's funnels are literally just made of clear plastic so they're hard to see. That's the gimmick. There's no cloaking device or magic, it's just a clever nod to the fact that this is fundamentally a show about models punching each other. Sei and Reiji defeat them by the incredible magic spell of spraying paint on them so they're visible and can be shot down. Nils's entire character gimmick is that he's a scientist who is more interested in the mechanics behind the game than the game itself, so it makes sense that his fighting style would focus on exploiting those mechanics and he catches his opponents by surprise because they're too caught up in lore and the canon to play with possibilities. There are a lot of canon examples even in UC of solid objects being able to deflect or ignore beam attacks(beam coats and i-fields spring to mind and the Crossbones have goddamn beam-deflecting capes) so I don't think "my swords can pass through beams" is a crazy invention.

Mao is just as much of a "cheater" as everyone else because it's repeatedly stated in the show that for a Gundam X to use a Satellite Cannon the moon needs to be out as per canon but Mao figured out how to build a workaround to that.

Sazabi
Feb 15, 2014

A-MA-ZON!!
So if Reiji used his head Vulcans to piant the funnels. Then that means firing wildly with his Vulcans will hit the funnels. Why not fire wildly with regular ammo which presumably would also hit the funnels?

And I can't think of a single UC weapon that absorbs energy weapons and redirects it into a suit for increased stats. The best I can think of is Destiny's Akatsuki and that was only reflecting shots. Nils came across as dileberatly trying to exploit the system instead of mearly being creative and breaking lore.

I also give Maoh a pass because I just figured his satellite canon would work like any other weapon and just get a massive power boost when a moon is present. Like water Pokemon can fight in a desert but they do much better in the rain or near water.

The cheating in Build I consider a separate issue. Where using glue, grease, paint, metal parts inside frames. That's just hosed up like like taping tacks to a football and giving your guys steel gloves. Or using kidding magnets in a baseball snd your sides bats and catcher mits. Greasing the opponets golf clubs. poo poo that a lot of people did but Sei seemed particularly fond of doing. Not that that tournament was fair for anyone.

Caros
May 14, 2008

Sazabi posted:

So if Reiji used his head Vulcans to piant the funnels. Then that means firing wildly with his Vulcans will hit the funnels. Why not fire wildly with regular ammo which presumably would also hit the funnels?

And I can't think of a single UC weapon that absorbs energy weapons and redirects it into a suit for increased stats. The best I can think of is Destiny's Akatsuki and that was only reflecting shots. Nils came across as dileberatly trying to exploit the system instead of mearly being creative and breaking lore.

I also give Maoh a pass because I just figured his satellite canon would work like any other weapon and just get a massive power boost when a moon is present. Like water Pokemon can fight in a desert but they do much better in the rain or near water.

The cheating in Build I consider a separate issue. Where using glue, grease, paint, metal parts inside frames. That's just hosed up like like taping tacks to a football and giving your guys steel gloves. Or using kidding magnets in a baseball snd your sides bats and catcher mits. Greasing the opponets golf clubs. poo poo that a lot of people did but Sei seemed particularly fond of doing. Not that that tournament was fair for anyone.

The shells from the vulcans didn't hit the funnels, they made a small cloud of paint that stuck to the funnels. Helps to actually watch the scene before critiquing the logic involved.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Caros posted:

The shells from the vulcans didn't hit the funnels, they made a small cloud of paint that stuck to the funnels. Helps to actually watch the scene before critiquing the logic involved.

Also you're going to do a lot more with airbursting paint rounds than small-calibre bullets fired blindly.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Sazabi posted:

So if Reiji used his head Vulcans to piant the funnels. Then that means firing wildly with his Vulcans will hit the funnels. Why not fire wildly with regular ammo which presumably would also hit the funnels?

And I can't think of a single UC weapon that absorbs energy weapons and redirects it into a suit for increased stats. The best I can think of is Destiny's Akatsuki and that was only reflecting shots. Nils came across as dileberatly trying to exploit the system instead of mearly being creative and breaking lore.

I also give Maoh a pass because I just figured his satellite canon would work like any other weapon and just get a massive power boost when a moon is present. Like water Pokemon can fight in a desert but they do much better in the rain or near water.

The cheating in Build I consider a separate issue. Where using glue, grease, paint, metal parts inside frames. That's just hosed up like like taping tacks to a football and giving your guys steel gloves. Or using kidding magnets in a baseball snd your sides bats and catcher mits. Greasing the opponets golf clubs. poo poo that a lot of people did but Sei seemed particularly fond of doing. Not that that tournament was fair for anyone.

They used airbursting paint rounds, which created a cloud of paint, which is a thousand times easier to hit a hard to see or invisible object with than machine gun rounds.

You were complaining about the Sengoku Astray(Nils's suit) slicing through beams, so I gave examples of solid objects in the UC that could deflect, ignore, or redirect beams. The Absorb Shield is an entirely separate thing that operates by its own clearly defined rules.

Mao is using his own plavsky gimmick to power the Satellite Cannon, just like Nils is using plavsky gimmicks to cut beams, and Sei is using plavsky gimmicks to make the absorb shield. He literally calls it the secret technique of his gunpla school and the first fight he wins with it(the Apsalus fight) he wins because his opponent has no idea he can do it and neither does Sei the genius builder gundam nerd.

I don't actually understand what you're talking about when you refer to Sei as "cheating". He was competing in a tournament with an organizer who was openly hostile and trying to sabotage him at every turn so if he was actually doing anything legitimately against the rules he'd have gotten DQed immediately. If spraying glue on his own gunpla's arm to insulate the joint for one attack is "cheating" then he would have gotten his rear end booted out.

Kanos fucked around with this message at 04:06 on May 5, 2018

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007
uh, why do you care so much about sportsmanship in an entirely fictional and physically impossible sport? heck, not even a sport, an e-sport.

Sazabi
Feb 15, 2014

A-MA-ZON!!

Caros posted:

The shells from the vulcans didn't hit the funnels, they made a small cloud of paint that stuck to the funnels. Helps to actually watch the scene before critiquing the logic involved.

You're totally right. It is a paint burst. So why not just use airbust rounds or flak? Anything that bursts into shrapnel or pellets. Unless I missed the part where they say the funnels are armored.

Kanos posted:


I don't actually understand what you're talking about when you refer to Sei as "cheating". He was competing in a tournament with an organizer who was openly hostile and trying to sabotage him at every turn so if he was actually doing anything legitimately against the rules he'd have gotten DQed immediately. If spraying glue on his own gunpla's arm to insulate the joint for one attack is "cheating" then he would have gotten his rear end booted out.

Doesn't the audience throw a fit when that weasel guy tries to announce that Reiji lost. But the audience starts protesting till they announce it as a draw. It would certainly help clear things up if they had official rules. But hey. Let's agree to disagree and get back to ragging on on Divers.

I wish Scheherazade moved a little more during its intro fight. I know it's a big suit but still give it some thing more than an action pose during docking.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Sazabi posted:

You're totally right. It is a paint burst. So why not just use airbust rounds or flak? Anything that bursts into shrapnel or pellets. Unless I missed the part where they say the funnels are armored.

..Because it's easier to dodge something you can see and there are dozens of the little fuckers buzzing around? Paint doesn't just kill some and ding others, it makes anything it touches visible to some degree.


Sazabi posted:

I wish Scheherazade moved a little more during its intro fight. I know it's a big suit but still give it some thing more than an action pose during docking.

It's a Seravee Gundam. Like the Heavyarms it's only got one real pose and that is "gently caress everything in front of it".

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Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Sazabi posted:

Doesn't the audience throw a fit when that weasel guy tries to announce that Reiji lost. But the audience starts protesting till they announce it as a draw. It would certainly help clear things up if they had official rules. But hey. Let's agree to disagree and get back to ragging on on Divers.

What? That's not how that scene goes at all. They're about to run out of time in the little time out period to fix their gunpla because Sei is taking too long to glue up the arm and then they make it just in time and finish the battle. The only time there's an actual draw is the Fellini fight, where they beat each other into oblivion.

I'm mostly picking on this stuff because while I feel that Divers is definitely disappointing so far, based on GBF I feel like there's seeds of something good here if they're actually developed. Divers is taking time to introduce a secondary cast, albeit in a boring manner, and having these characters exist down the road might make them more interesting opponents or rivals for the protagonists than villains of the week. I'm assuming that our endgame here is going to be a tournament where Riku's force tries to become the champions rather than the Mass Diver stuff being a primary focus for the whole show.

Neddy Seagoon posted:

It's a Seravee Gundam. Like the Heavyarms it's only got one real pose and that is "gently caress everything in front of it".

Yeah there's pretty much no instance of any one of the Virtue-line Gundams(Virtue and Seravee) actually being animated well because their intended approach to combat is "soak incoming fire with a magic barrier until i delete everything in front of me with a beam the size of texas". They even move like crap in the video games where you can play as them.

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