Battletech - Urban Warcrimes: So quoth the RVN-3L, Arrow IV.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Battletech - Urban Warcrimes: So quoth the RVN-3L, Arrow IV.

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Gwaihir: Dec 8, 2009; Hair Elf

Night10194 posted:

I would completely understand the existence and continued presence of Locusts on the battlefield if that purpose was secretly 'Can be thrown at another mech by an Atlas.'

An Atlas with TSM can literally throw a locust.

e: As usual, there is a rule for this in the TT game:

Gwaihir fucked around with this message at 21:10 on May 4, 2018

# ? May 4, 2018 21:07

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# ? May 30, 2024 13:12

Cowcaster: Aug 7, 2002

i think the phoenix hawk was added to mwo just after harebrained finalized what the mech list for the game was going to be so it actually wasn�t an unseen issue just a timing issue (at the time)

# ? May 4, 2018 21:09

Ichabod Tane: Oct 30, 2005; A most notable
coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality.

https://youtu.be/_Ojd0BdtMBY?t=4

Battletech certainly causes 'tism.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? May 4, 2018 21:12

Section Z: Oct 1, 2008; Wait, this is the Moon.
How did I even get here?; Pillbug

VHGS posted:

Just rewrite the lore so that they get the idea from watching Kerensky's prized stash of Legends of the Hidden Temple VHS tapes.

CommieGIR posted:

Probably recorded over episodes of Where In The World Is Carmen San Diego?

Clan Rockapella Alligators?

# ? May 4, 2018 21:13

Mordja: Apr 26, 2014; Hell Gem

Glenn Quebec posted:

Battletech certainly causes 'tism.

Turn your monitor on.

# ? May 4, 2018 21:15

VolticSurge: Jul 23, 2013; Just your friendly neighborhood photobomb raptor.

Night10194 posted:

I would completely understand the existence and continued presence of Locusts on the battlefield if that purpose was secretly 'Can be thrown at another mech by an Atlas.'

Sounds like a fun way to get rid of lovely backer characters. Load them in 3 Locusts, put Glitch in the Atlas, and play Atlasball with the enemy. Because you just know that Glitch would having the time of her life doing that.

# ? May 4, 2018 21:15

Big Beef City: Aug 15, 2013

If the Phoenix Hawk isn't the LAM variant please keep it away.

# ? May 4, 2018 21:19

Argas: Jan 13, 2008; SRW Fanatic

AFAIK HG basically gives the most half-assed go-ahead whenever any company asks about using the Unseen, even in a completely redesigned capacity, then goes apeshit when things do go forward.

I don't think BTech fans are really any more crazy than other fandoms. Though there was a World of Darkness reboot, it was also a refresh setting rather than rehashing the old stuff. Sure, it still had vampires and werewolves but it was more or less a separate setting beyond trappings and some similarities because you can't help but tap into some of the same old inspirations and references when you're tackling the same subject matter. But despite everything Classic WoD is still popular because people don't like change.

I think there would be a bit more difficulty rebooting BTech in anyway because there's the long setup to whatever present period they want to start the reboot at. And people are always going to be so angry at change.

# ? May 4, 2018 21:19

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!: May 31, 2006

metaplots: they dumb

beginning and end of discussion

# ? May 4, 2018 21:23

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

Gwaihir posted:

An Atlas with TSM can literally throw a locust.

e: As usual, there is a rule for this in the TT game:

It was mentioned in passing but there's also rules for using mech limbs as clubs.

# ? May 4, 2018 21:26

RabidWeasel: Aug 4, 2007; Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!

Argas posted:

AFAIK HG basically gives the most half-assed go-ahead whenever any company asks about using the Unseen, even in a completely redesigned capacity, then goes apeshit when things do go forward.

I don't think BTech fans are really any more crazy than other fandoms. Though there was a World of Darkness reboot, it was also a refresh setting rather than rehashing the old stuff. Sure, it still had vampires and werewolves but it was more or less a separate setting beyond trappings and some similarities because you can't help but tap into some of the same old inspirations and references when you're tackling the same subject matter. But despite everything Classic WoD is still popular because people don't like change.

I think there would be a bit more difficulty rebooting BTech in anyway because there's the long setup to whatever present period they want to start the reboot at. And people are always going to be so angry at change.

I dunno, the fact that people are absolutely dedicated to keeping a substantial chunk of the weapons in this strategy game as total garbage - essentially because it's traditional - is pretty loving dumb. I don't ever remember hearing even the worst GW fans I've played with over the years complain that they had un-nerfed something.

# ? May 4, 2018 21:28

DatonKallandor: Aug 21, 2009; "I can no longer sit back and allow nationalist shitposting, nationalist indoctrination, nationalist subversion, and the German nationalist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious game balance."

How can you feel like a super genius mech designer if your custom mech (genius idea: no <20 AC) massively outperforms stock designs. Maybe you are a not a genius mech designer and the stock mechs just use weapons that are poo poo? No that can't be the reason, all those weapons are perfectly balanced and you're just a genius mech designer.

# ? May 4, 2018 21:32

Soup du Journey: Mar 20, 2006; by FactsAreUseless

Xarbala posted:

I do want to mention that the interesting thing about the clans isn't trying to justify them, and Soup's analogy for them is ultimately misguided because they are explicitly not a rational solution to a tough problem in the text.

They are quite literally a faulty solution imposed upon a desperate and decimated military colonial population by a mentally unstable milhist nerd with a dodgy grasp of history, mild to moderate furry tendencies, and an unfortunate but terminal case of the Warriorboo. Half the weird rules he instituted for the clans' ritual combat were because he was personally afraid of people being able to beat him if those rules weren't there, like what happened to his brother in Operation Klondike. And he really, really did not take no for an answer, nor appreciate anyone modifying his perfect plans due to practical concerns, as Clan Wolverine learned at great cost.

And the main reason he got away with it is because happened to be the dumber, but luckier, son of Aleksander Kerensky.

So the clans are a horrifically inefficient Aristocracy run on the blood and sweat of over 90% of their population with social stratification enforced from the top down, and any clan that tries to ease up on these restrictions are liable to get genocided, like what happened to clan blood spirit during the wars of reaving. All so a bunch of idiots get to have fun shooting each other over e-honours.

Nazis nothing, they're basically brony gamer clans with quasi-nationalist ideologies.

well, as i said before, my knowledge of the lore is spotty and incidental. my point here is that there's enough there to make the case for a functional society that's imperfect but internally justified, and oriented around a different axis than the inner sphere. figuring out a rationale to make them better warriors (and scientists i guess, cause this is ostensibly scifi) is fine, and necessary if you want to make them credible antagonists. it also dovetails nicely with historical pre-gunpowder societies, which often existed under the nebulous threat of warrior hordes who were flat out better at fighting but shittier at governing.

it sounds like both the clans and the sphere are "horrifically inefficient aristocracies", but their weaknesses and strengths are expressed in different ways, which is a good thing if you want to smash them into each other.

# ? May 4, 2018 21:33

Jack2142: Jul 17, 2014; Shitposting in Seattle

DatonKallandor posted:

How can you feel like a super genius mech designer if your custom mech (genius idea: no <20 AC) massively outperforms stock designs. Maybe you are a not a genius mech designer and the stock mechs just use weapons that are poo poo? No that can't be the reason, all those weapons are perfectly balanced and you're just a genius mech designer.

Not trying to be hurr hurr, but this makes me miss the old Solaris 7 site where you could post up your customized mechs.

# ? May 4, 2018 21:38

Ichabod Tane: Oct 30, 2005; A most notable
coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality.

https://youtu.be/_Ojd0BdtMBY?t=4

So basically you're going to ignore everything lore-wise because having a Side A v. Side B is good?

# ? May 4, 2018 21:40

Soup du Journey: Mar 20, 2006; by FactsAreUseless

Glenn Quebec posted:

So basically you're going to ignore everything lore-wise because having a Side A v. Side B is good?

you'll have to be more specific than that, glenn. i'm mostly going off 25 year old memories and some wiki skimming.

my understanding of the clans is that they're a caste society with warriors on top (so almost, but not quite, like the indian conqueror cultures: think arjuna's people, but with no priestly class for some reason??), who do test tube babies and ritualized combat. from what i know of the inner sphere, it's some melange of historical successor states arranged in a vaguely feudal, kinda decadent sort of way. there are some conventions (no nukes, no orbital bombardment), but otherwise anything goes so long as the status quo remains intact.

and yeah, of course side a vs side b is good. isn't that what we're talking about here? setting up an interesting conflict for future games?

# ? May 4, 2018 21:50

RabidWeasel: Aug 4, 2007; Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!

Glenn Quebec posted:

So basically you're going to ignore everything lore-wise because having a Side A v. Side B is good?

Rewriting lore to make it better is almost always a good thing, yes. This isn't some epic masterpiece, it's 30-year-old schlocky backstory for a nerd strategy game. What benefit is there in retaining unaltered something which can be improved, other than some fans' rediculously unhealthy irrational attachment to the original?

# ? May 4, 2018 21:55

Rookersh: Aug 19, 2010

So does the Shadowhawks head just....kind of suck?

Am I missing something here in regards to heads?

I did a mission where Behemoth gets cut in half. Whatever, I hosed up there, she was surrounded way too heavily and I should have gotten her out. My bad.

So I wash her out, get a new guy in. First mission he goes from full health to 1/3rd within the first volley to a bunch of goddamn Locusts, because they all hit him with their LRMs from a million miles away and he takes 2 Headshots. His Hawk has basically no damage, just head hits. Eventually he gets taken down because I play aggressively with him and he gets knocked down/dead.

Whatever, replace him with a new dude. Literally same exact scenario. Take base/fight off reinforcements. Ok. Take the base, guys spawn, start fight, and he takes two LRMs to the head and is at 1/3. This time I run him back and have him play cover in the forest nearby while everyone else wraps it up.

In each of these scenarios all my other 'mechs are getting hit with LRMs constantly, I'm 20-30 hours into the game and Behemoth never had problems with LRM hits to the head. All of a sudden though I'm 2 for 2 of LRM to my Shadowhawk means bad poo poo.

I don't get it.

# ? May 4, 2018 21:55

The Dipshit: Dec 21, 2005; by FactsAreUseless

Rookersh posted:

Behemoth was my first death. Godspeed boring party member, I've replaced you with a rando.

I fired Medusa because eh, I found other people that seem cooler and you mysteriously cost more then the randos do?

It seems like the game is heavily pushing A/B/C Lances, but doesn't provide the level of missions to support that. Like hey, you can have 30 Mechwarriors on board, and 60 Mechs stored, and yeah just build a couple of Lances in case things go rotten and you need to swap dudes out, but why? I'm nearing the mid/end of the game and I still rarely have more then 3-4 missions up per planet, and even if I gently caress up on 1-2 of those and take a loss I can quickly just swap in a B Teamer and be up to speed again within 5 turns.

The travel speed basically kills the ability to have more then two Lances tops it seems. In XCOM I'd want an A/B/C squad in case I take casualties, because I could either mix and match as needbe, or take on multiple threats at the same time. The only time loss I'd suffer is globe, and globe only takes 2-3 days. As such I could very easily run into a problem scenario of A Team knocked out in a bad mission, sending in B Team while they recover, then whoops B Team also goes down and now I need to lean on C Team to keep things rolling until A/B heal up.

Here though you have travel time, so you only really need A/B, and not even a full B. If you go into a problem scenario and lose 1-2 guys, you can pull from B to replace them. If you get a really lovely squad wipe you can pull up your B Team. After the 3 missions on a planet you almost always tend to get 17 DAYS UNTIL NEXT PLANET which eats away almost the entire healing process, especially on an upgraded Argo. I've got a full mechbay right now and Yang can turn a fully cored/no arms/no legs Mech into a working machine in like 5 days.

Considering each pilot can cost 50k plus another 25k for their mech every month, it's not really feasible to run a full 2-3 lances. Instead it feels smarter to roll a full A lance, plus maybe 2-3 people who work as a supplementary lance that you can pull from when needed. Put every not used mech into storage and pull it when you need it, since it only takes 3 days to pull out of storage and frees up 100-200k per month by midgame.

Especially since there doesn't seem to be any timed missions? Having a smaller company of maybe just A/half B let's you save up enough money that if you hit a problem spot you can largely just wait until it's dealt with by eating a month or two, since your total costs are significantly cheaper then if you had a full A/B/C and suddenly had to constantly be doing missions just to pay the bills.

Honestly I think if they really want the player to play with larger crews, they need to drop the cost of the Argo ( that was a huge tease. Hey your debt will be over, nope, here's the exact same debt, just renamed. ), and add more missions per planet.

I feel Iike this could be solved with planetary mini-campaigns that are 3-5 battles all in a row with no breaks allowed.

# ? May 4, 2018 21:56

dioxazine: Oct 14, 2004

I get hit in the head a lot regardless of the mech my MC is in. LRMs just apply directly on their forehead every deployment.

# ? May 4, 2018 21:58

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Oh my god I never actually used the Firestarter in my first campaign.

I have named it 'rear end in a top hat Tony'. It will reap ammo explosions, pilot hits, and tears.

# ? May 4, 2018 21:58

SpaceDrake: Dec 22, 2006; I can't avoid filling a game with awful memes, even if I want to. It's in my bones...!

PC Gamer interview with Mitch and Mike:

https://www.pcgamer.com/whats-next-for-battletech/

They directly rule out doing Clans off the bat. Whatever Those NDA Mechs are, they aren't Clantech.

# ? May 4, 2018 21:59

Ravenfood: Nov 4, 2011

Rookersh posted:

So does the Shadowhawks head just....kind of suck?

Am I missing something here in regards to heads?

I did a mission where Behemoth gets cut in half. Whatever, I hosed up there, she was surrounded way too heavily and I should have gotten her out. My bad.

So I wash her out, get a new guy in. First mission he goes from full health to 1/3rd within the first volley to a bunch of goddamn Locusts, because they all hit him with their LRMs from a million miles away and he takes 2 Headshots. His Hawk has basically no damage, just head hits. Eventually he gets taken down because I play aggressively with him and he gets knocked down/dead.

Whatever, replace him with a new dude. Literally same exact scenario. Take base/fight off reinforcements. Ok. Take the base, guys spawn, start fight, and he takes two LRMs to the head and is at 1/3. This time I run him back and have him play cover in the forest nearby while everyone else wraps it up.

In each of these scenarios all my other 'mechs are getting hit with LRMs constantly, I'm 20-30 hours into the game and Behemoth never had problems with LRM hits to the head. All of a sudden though I'm 2 for 2 of LRM to my Shadowhawk means bad poo poo.

I don't get it.

Random number generators are random. My Shadowhawks have been tanks.

Triangle Shirt Factotum posted:

I feel Iike this could be solved with planetary mini-campaigns that are 3-5 battles all in a row with no breaks allowed.

I'd love this if I was aware of what I was signing up for beforehand.

# ? May 4, 2018 22:00

Galaga Galaxian: Apr 23, 2009; What a childish tactic!
Don't you think you should put more thought into your battleplan?!

Rookersh posted:

So does the Shadowhawks head just....kind of suck?

The Shadowhawl's head does suck yeah, but not for the reason you're thinking. :v:

I wish they'd kept the head more of an cockpit canopy style like the original Shadohawk/dougram instead of this armored hood with a window.

Anyways, there is no gameplay difference between mech heads, every mech rolls on the same hit location table(s).

# ? May 4, 2018 22:01

wiegieman: Apr 22, 2010; Royalty is a continuous cutting motion

BitterAvatar posted:

I feel like I have no idea how to successfully use called shot. It always seems to be pointlessly low percentage chance to hit. What am I doing wrong?

The percentage displayed is not your hit chance, it's the chance for a hit to be on that specific component (as opposed to elsewhere on the target.) Your chance of hitting somewhere are still displayed in the lower right.

# ? May 4, 2018 22:02

Gamerofthegame: Oct 28, 2010; Could at least flip one or two, maybe.

if they ever get around to clans I hope they just remake mech commander and the "let's elbow drop clan jaguar" battletech plotline

# ? May 4, 2018 22:04

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Also, if you can get close consistently it actually seems like MGs kind of rule in this game?

# ? May 4, 2018 22:04

Soup du Journey: Mar 20, 2006; by FactsAreUseless

RabidWeasel posted:

Rewriting lore to make it better is almost always a good thing, yes. This isn't some epic masterpiece, it's 30-year-old schlocky backstory for a nerd strategy game. What benefit is there in retaining unaltered something which can be improved, other than some fans' rediculously unhealthy irrational attachment to the original?

right. like yeah, im probably forgetting some battletech book out there where the clans firebombed dresden or something, but who cares. to me, the clan vs inner sphere is interesting if it mirrors how human societies have historically clashed; that's not an unreasonable stance, seeing as how the setting as a whole is an overt nod to at least a handful of dark ages.

im not all that interested in how perfectly the retelling fits every single thread of extended universe errata out there. that being said, im not sure if the pushback i've been getting here is too worried about this either. theres at least that one brittle dude here who has me pegged as a cryptofascist, which is bizarre, since the inner sphere isnt democratic and the clans arent pepe the nazi. they're both lovely and weird societies, familiar enough to hook us in, but still alien enough to spin a good yarn for us while we're there.

# ? May 4, 2018 22:06

Rookersh: Aug 19, 2010

Night10194 posted:

Also, if you can get close consistently it actually seems like MGs kind of rule in this game?

Fire is absurdly OP. If you can get close with fire/MGs you'll shred even Assaults in seconds.

I've beaten a few Assaults by burning their pilot alive in the cockpit, and not damaging the mech at all.

# ? May 4, 2018 22:07

Galaga Galaxian: Apr 23, 2009; What a childish tactic!
Don't you think you should put more thought into your battleplan?!

Fun Fact: Unless its changed recently not a single MWO redesigned mech has a moveable head, because :pgi:

didn't want to have to deal with mechs potentially swiveling their heads to look around. Instead, everyone's head is just fused right into the shoulders.

Necks are LosTech.

# ? May 4, 2018 22:08

The Dipshit: Dec 21, 2005; by FactsAreUseless

Ravenfood posted:

Random number generators are random. My Shadowhawks have been tanks.

I'd love this if I was aware of what I was signing up for beforehand.

Yeah! You could probably just make a misson tag like "campaign" on it or something and make sure you throw up a confirmation for to catch the duller folk.

# ? May 4, 2018 22:11

Soup du Journey: Mar 20, 2006; by FactsAreUseless

Gamerofthegame posted:

if they ever get around to clans I hope they just remake mech commander and the "let's elbow drop clan jaguar" battletech plotline

man, i don't. that'd be a dull and shallow take. like, great...we're fighting nazis again, in space this time. i guess that means we're the good guys...

get chris avellone or alexis kennedy on the line and have them write a path that takes us to the fulcrum point, has us teetering there for a bit, and then tumbling beyond... :350:

# ? May 4, 2018 22:13

Galaga Galaxian: Apr 23, 2009; What a childish tactic!
Don't you think you should put more thought into your battleplan?!

Please keep Avellone away from Battletech, we've already got enough hack writers for it as is.

# ? May 4, 2018 22:14

RBA Starblade: Apr 28, 2008; Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

I'm pretty ok with mechpunching a space hitler

# ? May 4, 2018 22:15

Soup du Journey: Mar 20, 2006; by FactsAreUseless

NNnnnooooo_oooo......

# ? May 4, 2018 22:16

KPC_Mammon: Jan 23, 2004; Ready for the fashy circle jerk

Soup du Journey posted:

man, i don't. that'd be a dull and shallow take. like, great...we're fighting nazis again, in space this time. i guess that means we're the good guys...

get chris avellone or alexis kennedy on the line and have them write a path that takes us to the fulcrum point, has us teetering there for a bit, and then tumbling beyond...

What is the nature of a Mad Cat Mk II?

Edit: I guess this game already has the Blackjack of Theseus. I could see Avellone being able to include his usual style in a battletech story.

KPC_Mammon fucked around with this message at 22:20 on May 4, 2018

# ? May 4, 2018 22:16

Reiterpallasch: Nov 3, 2010; Fun Shoe

people "have you pinned" because you did a kool-aid man into this thread with the "human eugenics is exactly like growing bigger strawberries" hot take

# ? May 4, 2018 22:16

Reiterpallasch: Nov 3, 2010; Fun Shoe

like i honestly dont think you're a cryptofascist but you're doing a pretty good forums impression of one, there's a reason this thread seems out to get you

# ? May 4, 2018 22:17

Eej: Jun 17, 2007; HEAVYARMS

DatonKallandor posted:

How can you feel like a super genius mech designer if your custom mech (genius idea: no <20 AC) massively outperforms stock designs. Maybe you are a not a genius mech designer and the stock mechs just use weapons that are poo poo? No that can't be the reason, all those weapons are perfectly balanced and you're just a genius mech designer.

Systems mastery is a hell of a drug

# ? May 4, 2018 22:18

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# ? May 30, 2024 13:12

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!: May 31, 2006

Soup du Journey posted:

right. like yeah, im probably forgetting some battletech book out there where the clans firebombed dresden or something, but who cares. to me, the clan vs inner sphere is interesting if it mirrors how human societies have historically clashed; that's not an unreasonable stance, seeing as how the setting as a whole is an overt nod to at least a handful of dark ages.

im not all that interested in how perfectly the retelling fits every single thread of extended universe errata out there. that being said, im not sure if the pushback i've been getting here is too worried about this either. theres at least that one brittle dude here who has me pegged as a cryptofascist, which is bizarre, since the inner sphere isnt democratic and the clans arent pepe the nazi. they're both lovely and weird societies, familiar enough to hook us in, but still alien enough to spin a good yarn for us while we're there.

welcome to your first interaction with this genre of media, i'll try to break it to you gently

see, back during the eighties, there were a lot of franchises created with very thinly veiled analogues for how much the nerds creating them utterly loving detested ronald reagan, margaret thatcher, or their local analogue. giant robots mostly came to it through Gundam, and the people who wrote Gundam's total loathing of a bunch of militaristic bastards who were going to end up destroying their country (but not before they destroyed a bunch of others) in the name of their insane need to conquer all of southeast asi- er, space, space, we meant space.

but, well, nerds have always been really bad at subtext

as a result, there have always been people who get weirdly attached to the Obviously loving Bad people, explaining why purging the weak is a good idea, the Inquisition totally owns actually, and Zieon Did Nothing Wrong.

as you have heard from others in this thread, the people who got really, really attached to the Clans fell neatly into this category (with a healthy addition of being the choice of preference for the kind of people who enjoy powergaming a totally imbalanced game) and as such when someone boils on up with "the clans rule, eugenics totally owns actually" the natural and sensible response is to tell the nerd in question to gently caress off

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! fucked around with this message at 22:25 on May 4, 2018

# ? May 4, 2018 22:18

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Battletech - Urban Warcrimes: So quoth the RVN-3L, Arrow IV.

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