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WhyteRyce posted:I liked how when it started, Flash and Green Arrow showed up on each other's finales and solved each other's problems. Although I'd imagine having Flash capture Diaz in 3 seconds would make the whole second half of Arrow look even dumber I don't think a single season of Arrow wouldn't have been solved by episode 8 if he just called Barry. And that's fine, but at least once a season Flash just carries Oliver somewhere and doesn't resolve any conflicts.
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May 5, 2018 05:02
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Aphrodite posted:Oliver doesn't want him dead yet. All part of Diaz’s plan
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May 5, 2018 05:48
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Aphrodite posted:They're already dropping 2 bodies.
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May 5, 2018 05:50
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Rhyno posted:We live in the darkest timeline. This is actually a time anachronism.
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May 5, 2018 09:26
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HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE posted:This is actually a time anachronism. It’s us, we’re the ones who released Mallus Gj everyone
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May 5, 2018 18:23
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I enjoyed the episode but like... I think we've all pretty much said it already. There were a lot of good ideas and elements in this season but there was just too much and it was too unfocused and never really came together. This was a solid episode and as I said the last two weeks I think they're pulling it together well enough to finish on a high note. But this season is what it is. Can't go back and change the mistakes now to make the finale more exciting or earned. So I'm just trying to enjoy it for what it is.Psychepath posted:They made a point of Diaz knowing all about Chance portraying other people and then he just shot the judge who was also face-swapped and clearly a fake with a quip. Because he's a bad guy and a psychopath who doesn't really care that judge didn't do anything to cause it? It turns out by a huge surprise Diaz isn't a fair and reasonable person. I bet he's not even telling the truth about that whole "the only thing worth anything is my word" which they made a point to show he broke last week after doing the same posturing. It turns out Diaz might be a dishonest player. Rhyno posted:I mean, Diaz was manipulating the trial so it's only fair that Team Arrow hosed him right back. Yeah, I mean I can understand why someone might have found the whole thing a mess and not engaging but it was just one illegal manipulation/deus ex machina after another so I don't get why the last one would stand out as a problem. No one was playing fair so it was just a game of who could make the last move.
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May 6, 2018 00:54
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It also works nicely because only the people directly involved know it was a fix fuckup. The public have no idea and will buy what they saw on tv.
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May 6, 2018 01:28
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Diaz being this huge threat they refuse to just kill gets slightly more dumb with the Judge thing. They knew what Diaz would do to him and they impersonated him anyway and left him in his office, defenseless to be murdered. Just like the dozens of henchmen they straight up kill on the way to their dramatic monologue contests with Diaz every few weeks. The brutal psychopath murdering everyone and controlling all crime though? We can't cross that line. VictorianQueerLit fucked around with this message at 02:42 on May 6, 2018 |
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May 6, 2018 02:40
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For all the valid criticisms of this season that feels like a really unfair and empty one. Like they did an entire episode about them managing to figure out police patterns to deduct that Diaz would be at a certain place at a certain time and Oliver going on a suicide run to kill him when he had half the Star City police force ready to gun him down. And they just had Diggle and Dinah make the highly questionable decision to attack him in broad day light in front of the court house and it ended with dozens of cops pointing their guns at them and calling Diaz "boss." And then Laurel went to go kill him and he got the jump on her. Diaz is powerful and insulated enough that he's not easy to kill, and to the best of my memory they haven't been in a position to do it since they realized what a threat Diaz was. Now don't get me wrong, I think they did a bad job establishing HOW Diaz got this powerful and insulated, but here we are. Like I said, they actually did a whole episode's subplot around the very subject of how hard it is to find him and get him vulnerable. And then had two different failed attempts at him in this episode. I also think blaming Team Arrow for the Judge's death is a bit of a reach. That's like blaming them for the death of one of Diaz' henchmen if they screw up their heist and then Diaz shoots them in retaliation. I won't go so far as to call the Judge a non innocent since we don't know if he was bought or blackmailed like Rene. But I don't think he's Team Arrow's responsibility in the big picture. And they didn't actually do anything that would reasonably get him killed. Diaz is just a psychopath. And to that end he could just kill anyone Team Arrow makes a fool of or thwarts because he's in a bad mood.
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May 6, 2018 02:56
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STAC Goat posted:For all the valid criticisms of this season that feels like a really unfair and empty one. Like they did an entire episode about them managing to figure out police patterns to deduct that Diaz would be at a certain place at a certain time and Oliver going on a suicide run to kill him when he had half the Star City police force ready to gun him down. And they just had Diggle and Dinah make the highly questionable decision to attack him in broad day light in front of the court house and it ended with dozens of cops pointing their guns at them and calling Diaz "boss." And then Laurel went to go kill him and he got the jump on her. Oliver comes face to face with him only to run away when he hears sirens. Also Oliver trying to assassinate him was portrayed as an incredibly stupid move they would have never tried and he only did it because he was on vertigo. They have setup extensively that they are directly refusing to kill him, particularly with all of the development trying to keep Dinah from killing Black Siren and the focus on true justice while not crossing lines. He is as easy to kill as anyone else. He isn't invulnerable and they run into him every week. Oliver could have broken his neck last week but he decided honor was more important and stupidly tried to get him to submit and agree to the terms of a gentleman's bet to leave the city if he loses a sparring match. Oliver also didn't kill him after he had taken power and ran away because he didn't have time to capture him alive. If Dinah and Diggle were going to kill him they would have just shot him, they were just pissed off and wanted to confront him in public. Team Arrow is directly responsible for the Judge's death. Diaz walked into the court room with Renee's daughter, the DA and police captain both described how they were being blackmailed by him. They have spent a really long time setting up Diaz as an unpredictable killer and almost everyone has mentioned how Diaz is forcing people to do things under threat of violence or death. So when they take someone under his control and make it look like he betrayed him, on television, then what do they expect is going to happen? That the psychopathic killer is just going to shrug his shoulders and have no issues or frustrations with the judge whatsoever? If they impersonated Renee and testified that Oliver was innocent do you think that Diaz would just blow it off and leave Renee/His daughter alone and that nobody can be responsible for the totally unpredictable move of the psychopath trying to harm the people that look responsible when his plans fail? So no, that's actually one of the biggest criticisms next to Diaz not being properly setup. He is a street thug that a bad script is forcing them to bend over backwards to keep alive, which makes no sense as they continually slaughter dozens of people directly and indirectly. A mountain of bodies is building up around this regular dude they have had plenty of chance to deal with. If they want to do the Batman "I don't kill" type story line that's fine, just don't have Batman kill literally everyone else in the gang aside from the boss because he has plot armor and is too important to the story. VictorianQueerLit fucked around with this message at 03:26 on May 6, 2018 |
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May 6, 2018 03:12
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They were against the Vertigo assault BECAUSE it was a suicide mission. That's the point. It WAS a stupid move that was doomed to failure and would have got him killed. When was the time Oliver ran away from sirens? I don't recall that so I'm guessing it was awhile ago? Maybe I'm just missing stuff or glossing over scenes from recent episodes. Its definitely possible. But my memory is that its been quite awhile since they've encountered Diaz where they (a) knew he was DIAZ THE GREAT AND POWERFUL and (b) actually were in a position to kill him and not die in a hail of gunfire. Again they LITERALLY just had 2 failed hits on him in this episode. Whether you like it or not - and I completely agree that it was poorly built - Diaz is NOT just "some street thug." He IS the powerful crime boss who owns everyone that they say he is. Again, I agree that they did a poo poo job selling him to us as that but it is what it is. Us deciding he's something else and then holding the writing accountable to that definition is just bullheaded and silly. On the judge thing I just straight don't agree with you that its Team Arrow's responsibility to protect every person who tried to commit a crime for Diaz and they thwarted because there stands a reasonable chance he'll kill them. Are they bad guys for not having the DA and the Chief of Police under watch? Do they even have the means to do this when their own families are under direct threat and Diaz has so many people and resources under his thumb? Diaz could kill Jean Loring or the cops who let Chance get away. What about them? The Judge could have been an innocent but we have no idea of that and its been clear a lot of guys are just dirty too (like even before Diaz Oliver had a special crime unit of "untouchables" because everyone was so dirty) so IMO its just a piled on criticism of a season that has plenty of well earned ones.
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May 6, 2018 03:26
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quote:Again they LITERALLY just had 2 failed hits on him in this episode. quote:Whether you like it or not - and I completely agree that it was poorly built - Diaz is NOT just "some street thug." He IS the powerful crime boss who owns everyone that they say he is. Again, I agree that they did a poo poo job selling him to us as that but it is what it is. Us deciding he's something else and then holding the writing accountable to that definition is just bullheaded and silly. quote:On the judge thing I just straight don't agree with you that its Team Arrow's responsibility to protect every person who tried to commit a crime for Diaz and they thwarted because there stands a reasonable chance he'll kill them. quote:Are they bad guys for not having the DA and the Chief of Police under watch? Do they even have the means to do this when their own families are under direct threat and Diaz has so many people and resources under his thumb? quote:Diaz could kill Jean Loring or the cops who let Chance get away. What about them? The Judge could have been an innocent but we have no idea of that and its been clear a lot of guys are just dirty too (like even before Diaz Oliver had a special crime unit of "untouchables" because everyone was so dirty) so IMO its just a piled on criticism of a season that has plenty of well earned ones. And now consider that when you are rationalizing why all of these people could technically, hypothetically be dirty and deserving of death to try and disagree with me, ask yourself why that doesn't apply to the evil mastermind behind everything. I think the script could use the enlightment. VictorianQueerLit fucked around with this message at 04:00 on May 6, 2018 |
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May 6, 2018 03:46
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You know, SHIELD would have done Diaz right there. ARGUS is a bunch of chumps for a super secret government organization. Amanda Waller is spinning in her grave.
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May 6, 2018 04:12
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twistedmentat posted:You know, SHIELD would have done Diaz right there. ARGUS is a bunch of chumps for a super secret government organization. SHIELD would have shot Diaz in the chest 4 times only to have him survive 
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May 6, 2018 04:16
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:SHIELD would have shot Diaz in the chest 4 times only to have him survive Maybe if Maria Hill was in charge, but Fury, Diaz would just vanish of the face of the earth. Also, of course Diaz has access to CIA information. Though it's not a stretch to believe he owns Trump, i mean, anyone with 5 bux can get a piece of that giant cheeto. And there was zero problems with what Team Flash did, as it was impossible for Oliver to get a fair trial. The show has presented that basically the entire city is owned by Diaz. I want to find out just how much the cops are being given, because owning the whole department has go to be expensive. I'm sure if you worked it out, Diaz would probably exceed someone like Bezos's incomes in just bribes. But they don't care about that kind of poo poo, Diaz owns everyone, even though the logistics of that are impossible. twistedmentat fucked around with this message at 04:36 on May 6, 2018 |
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May 6, 2018 04:23
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Thanos: With just one snap I could solve everything..... for Diaz
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May 6, 2018 06:07
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Blaise330 posted:Thanos: With just one snap I could solve everything..... for Diaz *Diaz snaps his fingers instead*
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May 6, 2018 06:14
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The Diaz thing is just too funny at this point. He should really be exported to Legends so Kirk Acevedo can really shine.
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May 6, 2018 07:11
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Diaz is a powerful crime boss who rose to that position by having Black Siren sound blast everything in that one episode. Such a smart and powerful dude Seriously, he somehow rose the ranks for most of his criminal life without her but the only thing he could do without her that episode was burn some chump tow truck driver
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May 6, 2018 07:19
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So what happened while I've checked out? Have Ollie and the Outsiders stopped yelling at each other like stupid idiots yet?
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May 6, 2018 07:24
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Chokes McGee posted:So what happened while I've checked out? Have Ollie and the Outsiders stopped yelling at each other like stupid idiots yet? Oliver and Rene had a very human talk where they acted like actual human beings and coincidentally it was the best episode since I can't even remember this poo poo was so bad Curtis is still a douche though
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May 6, 2018 07:31
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If Rene says "Hoss, this changes everything" I'll forgive all.
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May 6, 2018 12:40
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WhyteRyce posted:Oliver and Rene had a very human talk where they acted like actual human beings and coincidentally it was the best episode since I can't even remember this poo poo was so bad Is Dinah still a raging psycho hypocrite?
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May 6, 2018 15:32
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WhyteRyce posted:Oliver and Rene had a very human talk where they acted like actual human beings and coincidentally it was the best episode since I can't even remember this poo poo was so bad This week's episode was written by two people who are usually Legends writers.
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May 6, 2018 16:46
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They basically wrote this episode to be that Oliver's trail ended up being a big enough deal that everyone got past their poo poo and worked to help him. That probably just should have been written a lot better and maybe drawn out over a couple of episodes in a better paced season.
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May 6, 2018 20:16
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Chokes McGee posted:Is Dinah still a raging psycho hypocrite? Rene: We gotta practice our lies hoss Dinah: lying is wrong I'll just plead the 5th Rene: that'll make you look guilty hoss Dinah: whatever Dinah: I plead the 5th Court: GASP Dinah: poo poo you were right who could have seen that coming
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May 7, 2018 00:15
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WhyteRyce posted:Rene: We gotta practice our lies hoss Yeah, I finally watched the episode. It was really nice to see everybody not act like childish idiots for the thinnest of reasons. Hopefully that keeps up going forward, I think there's only two episodes left? Dinah has been such a huge disappointment. She started off really well as a scene chewing team heavy, and they just never gave her a personality past "angry." 
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May 7, 2018 00:53
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Dang it Black Siren, you had a gun. I know you like your shtick, but use it where it's suitable and if you really feel it necessary then shoot him and shriek the corpse.
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May 7, 2018 02:44
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Bruceski posted:Dang it Black Siren, you had a gun. I know you like your shtick, but use it where it's suitable and if you really feel it necessary then shoot him and shriek the corpse. Supervillains that aren't named Diaz or Devoe are not really known for their general levels of competence and even Devoe is starting to gently caress that up over on the Flash.
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May 7, 2018 05:49
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So can we get Tommy as the Earth Two Arrow? Because he was pretty much what I wanted from the Green Arrow instead of Batman Lite.
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May 7, 2018 18:29
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Oliver, loving call the Legends, there's no way Diaz would see that coming.
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May 11, 2018 02:17
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They'd beat Diaz and Mick would be right about to burn him down, then both Ollie and Barry show up and tell him "No you can't do that! Why? Becuase...uh...killing is wrong! We have to give him over to the justice system...yes I know its incredibly corrupt and he owns basically everyone, but we can't kill....its wrong!"
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May 11, 2018 03:05
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The Dig and Lyla Power Hour was pretty alright.
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May 11, 2018 03:15
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Those were real pathetic assassination attempts. Why not just have a police escort his armored car the SCPD building? Because howe_sam posted:Oliver, loving call the Legends, there's no way Diaz would see that coming. They would actually join Diaz and give him the Waverider.
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May 11, 2018 03:57
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Those were real pathetic assassination attempts. "The only way to keep Diaz from winning is to let him win!" "That's the stupidest thing I've ever—" *gideon ejects him out of the waverider and he plummets to his death* "...huh."
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May 11, 2018 05:27
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Also pretty cool how his plan after dodging 15 years in prison by a hairs breath involves going to prison for life after Diaz is stopped. Good planning, Ollie.
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May 11, 2018 05:29
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Chokes McGee posted:Also pretty cool how his plan after dodging 15 years in prison by a hairs breath involves going to prison for life after Diaz is stopped. Good planning, Ollie. I'd wager that Ollie is probably not going to prison in exchange for doing some odd jobs for the FBI or even the US Government outside of Argus's books. Like a new Task Force X or something as a hook for the break or for Season 7
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May 11, 2018 05:45
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Xelkelvos posted:I'd wager that Ollie is probably not going to prison in exchange for doing some odd jobs for the FBI or even the US Government outside of Argus's books. Like a new Task Force X or something as a hook for the break or for Season 7 I would like that very much because if the payoff is OLLIE GOES TO JAIL ANYWAY LOL even if it's a bullshit 1 year slap on the wrist I'm going to be MAD ENOUGH to POST ON THE INTERNET
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May 11, 2018 05:53
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He's going to jail
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May 11, 2018 06:01
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:He's going to jail POSTING
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May 11, 2018 06:22
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