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as soon as you make a cogent argument other than "this is some wild stuff"
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May 7, 2018 22:22
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Yeah fair enough
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May 7, 2018 22:23
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DogonCrook posted:I mean if you can point to where im wrong im all ears. DogonCrook posted:Yeah im just saying doing it while aknowledging the guilty verdict and not contesting the finding of fact, is questioning the validity of a guilty verdict generally, not his specifically. You're wrong here. Challenging a sentence without challenging guilt is common - now that I think about it even more, it happens all the time in the US (there was just that fight about the Microsoft repair disc counterfeiting, for example, which was all about facts separate from "did this guy counterfeit discs or what"). DogonCrook posted:Hes claiming beside guilt there is some other abstract bar you have to clear to enact a sentence on that verdict. Again, often the case. Look at the US sentencing guidelines for how many different other factors go into a particular sentence being appropriate or not - https://www.ussc.gov/guidelines/2016-guidelines-manual DogonCrook posted:As if there were shades of fact some being more valid than others. Some facts are relevant to sentencing but not to guilt, yes. I refer you to the sentencing guidelines again. DogonCrook posted:Thats plainly retarded imo. This is your opinion, so it cannot be "wrong", only bad. But it is bad, as noted above. DogonCrook posted:Thats a completely arbitrary system if so, its not justice. If you take a look at the sentencing guidelines, it should be clear that a system of sentencing based on any number of additional facts (signs of remorse, criminal history, cooperation) is less arbitrary than "judge picks anything in this range."
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May 7, 2018 22:27
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ulmont posted:You're wrong here. Challenging a sentence without challenging guilt is common - now that I think about it even more, it happens all the time in the US (there was just that fight about the Microsoft repair disc counterfeiting, for example, which was all about facts separate from "did this guy counterfeit discs or what"). Yeah i know and i could be wrong but im under the impression though he is not arguing its outside of some guidlines hes arguing that within those guidlines he should be on the lower end of it. Maybe they just didnt cite his full argument in the article or whatever or its a translation thing. Like is he actually arguing they didnt meet the standards for life? To me it sounds like he is contesting the guilty verdict without doing it directly because they didnt cite what bar he claims they didnt clear or whatever the issue is.
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May 7, 2018 23:25
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You are confusing the verdict of guilt in the case of a particular crime with the sentence.
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May 7, 2018 23:33
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steinrokkan posted:You are confusing the verdict of guilt in the case of a particular crime with the sentence. I may be confused about what hes arguing but without citing some specific reason the only way to decide this is to re weigh the evidence of the first trial by a judge who wasnt there and deciding how close to that line the case was.
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May 7, 2018 23:58
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DogonCrook posted:I mean if you can point to where im wrong im all ears. You're only supposed to have two of them, but I don't want to be ableist.
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May 8, 2018 00:18
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I maintain this is based Denmark doing god's work once again. One less Swede walking the earth is a slight improvement to the human condition. 
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May 8, 2018 02:39
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That's pretty harsh friend, swedes are usually very attractive, and therefore deserving of life.
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May 8, 2018 05:31
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Yeah but they've fucker over Scandinavia for their entire existence. Every time Danes do something cool, Sweden starts a war back home and the Danes must return to fight the snow chimps. Its about time the Danes take some revenge. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 8, 2018 06:53
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DogonCrook posted:I may be confused about what hes arguing but without citing some specific reason the only way to decide this is to re weigh the evidence of the first trial by a judge who wasnt there and deciding how close to that line the case was. I don't follow you. What exactly is it you think happens on a sentencing appeal? Just gimme a plain description of what you think the issue is, because I'm not sure what you're getting at.
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May 8, 2018 08:57
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Are the police looking for the tape he clearly made?
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May 8, 2018 09:56
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Bape Culture posted:Are the police looking for the tape he clearly made? This SD card. This card was in your daddy’s POV snuffcam when he was apprehended in Køge Bugt. He was captured, put in a Danish prison. He knew if the pigs ever saw the card it’d be confiscated, taken away. The way your dad looked at it, that card was your birthright. He’d be damned if any normies were gonna put their porcine hands on his boy’s birthright. So he hid it in the one place he knew he could hide something. His rear end. Five long years, he wore this card up his rear end. Then he died of dysentery, he gave me the card. I hid this uncomfortable hunk of plastic up my rear end two years. Then, after seven years, I was sent home to my family. And now, little man, I give the card to you. frumpykvetchbot fucked around with this message at 12:02 on May 8, 2018 |
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May 8, 2018 10:41
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May 8, 2018 11:47
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Since Murder Madsen seems to have finally swallowed the fact that no judge is ever going to believe that he didn't murder Kim Wall, I wouldn't be shocked if at this point he owns up to it and instead starts pulling a contrition act in a bid to try and get out of prison someday. Wouldn't shock me at all. Luckily after all this I would hope that if he does start acting remorseful it'll be obvious to any judges that it's just a coldly calculated move to try and get less prison time.
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May 13, 2018 06:21
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He's never going free. Any evaluator looking over his official interaction history is not going to buy it, not unless they themselves are insane. Thats one more Dane behind bars, and only all of them to go.
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May 13, 2018 08:03
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Sucrose posted:Since Murder Madsen seems to have finally swallowed the fact that no judge is ever going to believe that he didn't murder Kim Wall what part of any of the coverage makes you think this, it's literally the opposite of his behavior at trial
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May 13, 2018 14:56
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the milk machine posted:what part of any of the coverage makes you think this, it's literally the opposite of his behavior at trial Yeah. And his attorney says nothing about her client's position has changed. He still firmly asserts innocence with respect to the act of murder itself, but in recognition of his depleted credibility account, he is not actually seeking to challenge the guilty verdict in the appeal. He just wants the life sentence reduced to a shorter sentence more in line with what other first time murderers would have received. I think. Also, by not challenging the guilty verdict he is now no longer subject to nearly as strict isolation with respect to communication, and as I understand it he is now free to send and receive letters without restriction.
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May 13, 2018 18:45
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I'm still not convinced this sentence was strong enough to make Denmark a safe place for Swedes.
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May 13, 2018 18:53
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Kim Wall’s boyfriend has written a very good article (in bork but could probably be google translated) in Weekendavisen. Worth a read.
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May 13, 2018 19:14
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Even with a crappy google translation, it's pretty heartwringing.quote:RETSSAGEN against PM is appealed and we must now wait for a verdict from the national court as well. Until then, I have to believe and hope for a judgment that resembles the district court. That's the only thing that can just give me a little sense of balance and justice. It is necessary for me to say that the relationship between action and potential punishment can never be neither balanced nor fair. It will only be the interpretation of society by its laws followed by judicial enforcement.
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May 13, 2018 19:26
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still loling that his defense was taken almost verbatim from that one Star Citizen post where a guy asks if he can vent the airlocks when transporting slaves, that way if the police catch him he can only be charged with transporting corpses
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May 14, 2018 01:52
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CharlestonJew posted:still loling that his defense was taken almost verbatim from that one Star Citizen post where a guy asks if he can vent the airlocks when transporting slaves, that way if the police catch him he can only be charged with transporting corpses Link please
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May 14, 2018 06:44
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the milk machine posted:what part of any of the coverage makes you think this, it's literally the opposite of his behavior at trial Oh. I thought that him no longer contesting the guilty verdict, just the length of the sentence, meant he was giving up on the whole "I'm innocent!" deal.
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May 14, 2018 07:17
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New court dates for the appeal: September 5th, 12th and 14th.
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May 15, 2018 11:39
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bolind posted:New court dates for the appeal: September 5th, 12th and 14th. Yeah, that's pretty much what I figured. Probably won't be too exciting to follow, guess we'll see. Hopefully the high court isn't in a gaming mood.
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May 15, 2018 12:06
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Could he technically appeal to Højesteret? (Bork Supreme Court)
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May 15, 2018 12:12
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bolind posted:Could he technically appeal to Højesteret? (Bork Supreme Court) He could, but they won't necessarily take the case since there's no constitutional argument.
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May 15, 2018 12:17
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KomodoWagon posted:He could, but they won't necessarily take the case since there's no constitutional argument. Yup, though as I've previously mentioned they might be interested in doing so just to firmly establish that life is applicable to single-murder cases. Don't think bork supreme court does any fact finding and never rules on actual guilt, only on purely legal issues so that's pretty familiar. If they can, they might hear it.
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May 15, 2018 12:26
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Yep, there's even precedent for life in prison for a murder/rape in a nautical enviroment. Stabby Ahab is going to rot in the shade 
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May 15, 2018 12:29
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Lima posted:Yep, there's even precedent for life in prison for a murder/rape in a nautical enviroment. I know the case you mean. It's probably sufficient on its own, so yeah. So, looking forward to seeing the movie directed by Lars von Trier, "The sub that Madsen built".
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May 15, 2018 12:46
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Actually I read that one of the other lifers who’s  only killed one person is slated to have his sentence tried in Supreme Court. No firm source on that other than a line in some news article.
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May 15, 2018 13:58
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So is the case pretty much settled? Or is there going to be a long series of appeals like there is with a capital case in the USA? (my assumption is danish treat a long prison sentence like USA treats death sentences since they're handed out so rarely)
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Jun 17, 2018 01:24
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Caganer posted:(my assumption is danish treat a long prison sentence like USA treats death sentences since they're handed out so rarely) Whut Execution is a bit less reversible than a long sentence dude. Assume less things. Also Danish is a pastry you mean Danes.
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Jun 17, 2018 04:23
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Caganer posted:So is the case pretty much settled? Or is there going to be a long series of appeals like there is with a capital case in the USA? bolind posted:New court dates for the appeal: September 5th, 12th and 14th. There is probably only going to be that one appeal hearing. It mercifully won't include a rehash of all the gory detail, and the matter of guilt won't be reconsidered. Maybe he's hoping that re-sentencing would allow for the chance of parole before the collapse of western civilization or his 60th birthday.
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Jun 17, 2018 05:18
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frumpykvetchbot posted:Maybe he's hoping that re-sentencing would allow for the chance of parole before the collapse of western civilization or his 60th birthday. Yeah, he also needs to get out in time in order to recover that missing memory card from the camera. But seriously, we all know he did try to conceal it somewhere, right?  I just hope it's gone or unusable.
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Jun 17, 2018 07:20
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Sorry to bump an older thread, but I encountered this on Reddit and immediately thought "hmm. that wacko submarine guy also spoke bork bork... i wonder what's up with him" Someone had mentioned him having an appeal hearing, is that far off? As somebody who's interested in the nordic/eu model of prison (reform not punishment) I find it really interesting to hear how they handle egregious stuff like this. I assume he'll be in a psych ward forever (or a relatively comfy but solitary confinement ala Brevik?)
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Jul 20, 2018 14:40
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Caganer posted:Someone had mentioned him having an appeal hearing, is that far off? September 5, 12 and 14.
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Jul 20, 2018 15:37
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Submarine Psycho Madsen appealed the sentencing, not the verdict; ie. he is hoping for a finite term instead of the sentence of life (life convicts serve on average 17 years) + forvaring that he got. The supreme court appeal is scheduled for September 5, 12, & 14 this year. Google translation of Danish wikipedia "Forvaring" with some corrections: quote:Custody is a punishment type that is used against people who are considered to be particularly dangerous because they have committed serious personal crime such as killing, robbery or serious sexual crimes . It's basically "storage", putting him a place where he can't hurt anyone again until such a time where he might be deemed harmless.
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Jul 20, 2018 15:41
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Krankenstyle posted:It's basically "storage", putting him a place where he can't hurt anyone again until such a time where he might be deemed harmless. do we really think that post Issei Sagawa such a thing will happen?
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Jul 20, 2018 15:45
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