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MarquiseMindfang posted:Broadly speaking, Harmony should be adapting yourself to the environment, Purity should be adapting the environment to you, and Supremacy should be exploiting whatever is there to its fullest. And as it is, I always get Autonomous Systems and build Master Control, and get Swarm Robotics and build the Drone Sphere if I don't have the artifact, because they're that ridiculously good. Master Control is +1 movement to all workers (and can stack with the artifact that gives +2 movement to all workers, yes you can get 5-movement workers), and Drone Sphere is +50% worker work speed. Drone Sphere doesn't really have any effect if you already have the artifact that gives +50% worker work speed, but nice if you don't get that. Another always useful artifact lets you build Drone Command buildings in your city that let the city work 2 additional tiles beyond what the city's population can work. Beyond Earth can get slightly broken. Bonus points if you arrange to have a city where you can have farm tiles that produce 5 food, 4 production, 3 science, and 1 energy.
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Apr 25, 2018 00:40
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You could weave through and grab non-conflicting techs if you wanted but you might have to go through some useless affinity techs to get to them. Xeno Cavalry might be in the Harmony area of the web, but it would be close to the border with Supremacy because it's hard to argue that Supremacists wouldn't also domesticate useful animals. Meanwhile it would be far from Purity, who would never do that.
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Cythereal posted:Random BE thought: there's nothing to do with forests but chop them in that game, and marshes are still as useless as always. Beyond Earth managed to make oceans and tundra and snow useful tiles, you'd think there'd be something useful to do with forests or marshes beyond turn them into farms, especially for a Harmony civ. It's been a while since my last game but I think Biowells were able to be built on marshes without "removing" them in the sense that they gave a little more food but you couldn't see if the marsh was still there. As with other CivBE stuff this could either be a bug or a feature. I might have to fire up a game once I get home...
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Apr 25, 2018 05:15
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Cythereal posted:And as it is, I always get Autonomous Systems and build Master Control, and get Swarm Robotics and build the Drone Sphere if I don't have the artifact, because they're that ridiculously good. Master Control is +1 movement to all workers (and can stack with the artifact that gives +2 movement to all workers, yes you can get 5-movement workers), and Drone Sphere is +50% worker work speed. Drone Sphere doesn't really have any effect if you already have the artifact that gives +50% worker work speed, but nice if you don't get that. I wish Civ VI's wonders were as powerful as BE's. Well, maybe not like, launch version of Machine-Assisted Free Will powerful, but you know.
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Apr 25, 2018 07:10
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John F Bennett posted:I remember playing some of those mods back in the day. One of the first things you can research is The Secret Of Fire. And only then are you able to build a campfire that delivers 0.05 culture or something like that. in theory it's pretty cool, like they turned the early parts of the game into some survival crafting bit where neanderthals with strength 4 roam the land genociding your strength 1 stone throwers and wanderers you gotta send out hunters to fight animals constantly (and decide if you want to butcher them for food and production or culture and beakers), and workers are one (!) use only and take ages, you can only have one move 1 settler at the time etc and then you build your first few cities and research beyond bronze working and everything grinds to a halt
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Apr 25, 2018 10:45
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MarquiseMindfang posted:I wish Civ VI's wonders were as powerful as BE's. Yea, 6's wonders are really underwhelming for the most part. I miss the SMAC wonders.
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Apr 25, 2018 11:59
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Taear posted:Yea, 6's wonders are really underwhelming for the most part. I miss wonder-movies in general. Or Wonders that weren't super-buildings. Or I suppose in the case of Civ6, Super-Districts.
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Apr 25, 2018 13:11
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Some of the Civ 6 wonders are very powerful - specifically the ones that give you extra government slots. I don't think Firaxis really knows how to balance a game, though, so many of the others are just trash. Beyond Earth has the same problem, though.
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Apr 25, 2018 13:12
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Gort posted:Some of the Civ 6 wonders are very powerful - specifically the ones that give you extra government slots. I don't think Firaxis really knows how to balance a game, though, so many of the others are just trash. I'm going to say it's the same in Civ5. There's a few that are invaluable then the rest are just hugely meh. I still build them though.
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Apr 25, 2018 13:38
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Hypothesis: Civ VI wonders are always powerful and situationally-buildable, or situationally-powerful and always-buildable. Balance!
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Apr 25, 2018 16:55
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Gort posted:Some of the Civ 6 wonders are very powerful - specifically the ones that give you extra government slots. I don't think Firaxis really knows how to balance a game, though, so many of the others are just trash. Maybe I'm just a scrub but I think Civ 6 does a decent job with wonders. The extra slot wonders tend to overshadow everything else, but they're not so good as to completely make or break the game, and outside of a couple of duds there aren't any that are unbuildably bad (which probably qualifies as a high water mark for the Civ series.)
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Apr 25, 2018 17:17
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However mixed the quality of Civ VI is, it still has the best thread title on SA.
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Apr 25, 2018 20:46
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True that. Such a good song.
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Apr 25, 2018 20:58
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Straight White Shark posted:Maybe I'm just a scrub but I think Civ 6 does a decent job with wonders. The extra slot wonders tend to overshadow everything else, but they're not so good as to completely make or break the game, and outside of a couple of duds there aren't any that are unbuildably bad (which probably qualifies as a high water mark for the Civ series.) What would you say are the really bad ones?
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Apr 29, 2018 23:52
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Ghost Stromboli posted:What would you say are the really bad ones? I think Great Library underperforms. I guess it's a paybackbecause it was OP in CIV5 so suck on that GL rushers! In all seriousness, they could use the upgrades the goon modder puts on Wondrous Wonders.
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Apr 30, 2018 02:29
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With the buffs they've added I think Great Library is adequate now--still a low tier wonder, but usable. Statue of Liberty is the biggest dud right now. I have a hard time evaluating religion wonders since I've never really gone full religion, but some of them look awfully iffy.
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Apr 30, 2018 02:40
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Let's see, opening the game up and taking a look personally, wonders that are iffy (not necessarily bad, but either really niche or not particularly great) to me are:
Really, some of these are passable or even kind of good in particular circumstances, they're just are harder to get to work well enough to justify their cost, while others are just generally mediocre in most or all circumstances. I left out a few others that are tricky to build but have potentially great effects (Great Zimbabwe, and the research station too really, I just wanted to complain about it) and ones that are sort of niche but really good in that niche and not a pain to make (Bolshoi Theater, Broadway, and so on, which are all pretty much solely for someone doing a culture victory and not worth it with anyone else); the ones here manage to hit a combination of being generally mediocre or only good in very narrow circumstances, being annoying to build, and/or not having value that seems comparable to their cost, whether in production, time and opportunity cost, or the hexes they take up that could be used for something else. I could be off in my evaluation of some of these, mind. I just did a quick look at all the wonders in-game and wrote up my thoughts based on that. And really, even the above wonders aren't as bad as the worst ones from past games, I think. They're just less good than most alternatives unless you're in a particular situation or something. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Apr 30, 2018 |
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Apr 30, 2018 03:52
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How's Rise and Fall? It's been awhile since I played and I'm wondering if its worth picking up.
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May 1, 2018 20:10
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LLSix posted:How's Rise and Fall? It's been awhile since I played and I'm wondering if its worth picking up. I've really enjoyed it......Rise and Fall definitely makes Domination and overly aggressive forward settling much more difficult to pull off (though it can be done). The new Civs are good, Governors are fun...faith is actually a decent yield now thanks to Monumentality letting you by builders/settlers during a golden age with it, as well as a few other things (still probably the weakest yield though). The new wonders are pretty. But it still is fundamentally CIV VI. Just better. Emergencies suck though....like they dont seem feasible to be a part of at all.
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May 1, 2018 20:26
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If you think that adding half a star out of 10 to Civ VI sounds fun, then try R&F.
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May 1, 2018 20:31
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LLSix posted:How's Rise and Fall? It's been awhile since I played and I'm wondering if its worth picking up. It's an improvement. If your main issue was bad AI, it isn't enough of one.
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May 1, 2018 21:00
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What are emergencies supposed to represent? Where does the cash reward come from? They sound silly to me (I don't have the expansion)
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May 2, 2018 09:33
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:What are emergencies supposed to represent? Where does the cash reward come from? They sound silly to me (I don't have the expansion) It’s a game.
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May 2, 2018 09:42
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Where does the cash reward come from? scaling enterprise synergies between two or more common markets (forced through military alliance) leads to increased value and cashflow in all of the participating societies stakeholders duh
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May 2, 2018 09:55
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:What are emergencies supposed to represent? Where does the cash reward come from? They sound silly to me (I don't have the expansion) War bonds.
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May 2, 2018 10:02
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I hope the coming update will provide more emergencies. When is that thing getting released anyway.
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May 2, 2018 10:46
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Spring.
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May 2, 2018 10:56
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I like the idea of emergencies -- they are supposed to represent global crises, situations in which much of the world intervenes, or in which one country tries to get the world to intervene. Sometimes, everybody joins in, and it's like WWI or something. Sometimes, the emergency is just you, and it's like almost everything else the US has ever done. "Go get this city you've never found" and "go get this city on your border" aren't the same kinds of emergency though and they need another development pass.
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May 2, 2018 12:51
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Also, it seems weird that the rewards don't scale at all with the number of factions involved. On the one hand I get where they're coming from. It's an additional incentive to join in, not just for the reward for yourself, but also to deny part of it to the others. And in a simulationalist sense it's reasonable that there wouldn't be more or less stuff to loot just because there's more or fewer people doing the looting. But on the other hand, it's kinda out of whack during the fairly common (at least in singleplayer) situation where only two players are involved in an emergency. At that point you're basically just doing what you'd probably be doing anyways, except with a massively huge reward on top of it. The first time I ran into an emergency was when Alexander captured one too many city states near my border. I was the suzerain of that one, so naturally I accepted and went to war with him over it (fucker had it coming anyway). So I won that war, nabbed an additional city or two in the process, and I got thousands upon thousands of gold on top of it, which basically put me ahead forever.
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May 2, 2018 13:34
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I think the emergency system is a good idea in principle but they erred waaaay too far on the side of having emergencies for the sake of having them. If they tightened up the criteria for what constituted an "emergency" it might have worked. I'd be OK with having an emergency only pop up once every 3 or 4 games; not every game is going to have a worthwhile emergency situation arise.
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May 2, 2018 14:36
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Are emergency rewards scaled at all with era? A global war in 500 AD might have to be worth less than one in 1914.
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May 2, 2018 15:19
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Or the opposite? It sure seems more expensive and hard to wage a global war with galley and archers
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May 2, 2018 15:25
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Having a mechanic that only pops up every 3 or 4 full-length games is wasted dev time. By the sounds of it, the gold scaling could be tweaked to scale mildly with the number of players (eg solo victor doesn't earn as much net as a team of four). A bigger issue it seems is why aren't the other AI factions joining in on the emergency? It's free gold for a dogpile etc. Or, putting it another way, the mechanic is potentially fun and great, but sullied by its implementation, and utterly ruined by the terrible AI. Sounds familiar?
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May 2, 2018 15:40
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Serephina posted:Having a mechanic that only pops up every 3 or 4 full-length games is wasted dev time. By the sounds of it, the gold scaling could be tweaked to scale mildly with the number of players (eg solo victor doesn't earn as much net as a team of four). A bigger issue it seems is why aren't the other AI factions joining in on the emergency? It's free gold for a dogpile etc. A good mechanic that only pops up every 3 or 4 games is a much better use of dev time than a bad mechanic that pops up 3 or 4 times a game. Arbitrarily upending the diplomatic landscape because of random trivial events is a bad mechanic regardless of how well the AI handles it.
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May 2, 2018 16:03
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I've been playing R&F since it's release and I don't run mods and only pretty standard single player games. I've only ever seen two emergencies happen. I've completely forgotten they existed.
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May 2, 2018 17:50
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Fhqwhgads posted:I've been playing R&F since it's release and I don't run mods and only pretty standard single player games. I've only ever seen two emergencies happen. I've completely forgotten they existed.
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May 2, 2018 18:09
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I played through a few times and saw a few emergencies after I took people's capitals. By the time the emergency resolved I was already like six cities deeper into their territory and it just sort of fizzled with a whimper. They're pretty much a miss as far as impacting gameplay other than giving you more gold for what you were doing anyway. Sometimes they can give you a free war against someone I guess. Basically they just make the game easier.
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May 3, 2018 00:14
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SlothBear posted:I played through a few times and saw a few emergencies after I took people's capitals. By the time the emergency resolved I was already like six cities deeper into their territory and it just sort of fizzled with a whimper. They're pretty much a miss as far as impacting gameplay other than giving you more gold for what you were doing anyway. Sometimes they can give you a free war against someone I guess. Basically they just make the game easier. They pop up semi-often if you do religion...which can lead to some hilarious poo poo where you flip a guy's holy city, which was his last/only religious city, which causes a giant emergency to happen...and twenty turns later you get a giant pile of gold because he had no holy men of any kind, or only 1-2 while you have 3-4 to keep putting pressure on.
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May 3, 2018 08:38
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I'm a Civ 4 grognard but I want to try this game. Will the next update fix the "yeild" bug? (I know you can download a fix on the steam workshop.) Will it make the single player experience tolerable, unlike how the OP says its abysmal?
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May 8, 2018 07:25
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Node posted:I'm a Civ 4 grognard but I want to try this game. Will the next update fix the "yeild" bug? (I know you can download a fix on the steam workshop.) Will it make the single player experience tolerable, unlike how the OP says its abysmal? Yes, the yield fix is going to be included in the next update. It does make the AI a lot more consistent in its ability to pose some kind of threat, but it's not going to fundamentally change the single player experience. (Which, personally, I think is a better single player game overall than 4 or 5--but it's a different enough experience that I can see why it doesn't scratch the same itch for people. It's more optimization puzzle than strategy game, which has kind of always been the case for Civ at some point, but 6 does a really lovely job of propping up the illusion.)
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May 8, 2018 13:27
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Node posted:I'm a Civ 4 grognard but I want to try this game. Will the next update fix the "yeild" bug? (I know you can download a fix on the steam workshop.) Will it make the single player experience tolerable, unlike how the OP says its abysmal? I'd say Civ6 (and 5) are different enough from 4 that you won't enjoy it. Even with the bug being fixed the AI just straight up doesn't know how to play the game. I was really poo poo at the military side of the game in 4 but it's super easy in this one.
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May 8, 2018 13:54
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