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AstheWorldWorlds posted:Religious right also kind of had a ready made conduit for their ideas though. No such structural support exists for the "left" right which is why it's even more important to start building them
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May 9, 2018 16:41
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Clochette posted:Republican governors and legislatures are caving in to the demands of the teachers' strikes. You don't have to wait years to get leftists elected to make gains, you just have to withhold your labour. Teacher's are in a in a unique position to be able to strike effectively because nothing gets your constituents riled up like having to use your vacation days (or better yet, unpaid leave from work) to stay home and watch your kids. You wanna see some real "gently caress you labor" try to put a factory or retail chain on strike. You'll get the Pinkertons out of retirement in no time.
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May 9, 2018 16:48
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Sapozhnik posted:Demographics Are Destiny, unfortunately that destiny has a bunch of swastikas all over it because the kids that are currently coming of age are being turned into fash at a terrifying rate (and for exactly the same reasons as the last time this happened too) so uhh maybe we need to urgently loving do something about that no they aren't
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May 9, 2018 16:49
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Joementum posted:this is probably why hillary lost
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May 9, 2018 16:50
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The Nastier Nate posted:Teacher's are in a in a unique position to be able to strike effectively because nothing gets your constituents riled up like having to use your vacation days (or better yet, unpaid leave from work) to stay home and watch your kids. if they feel they have to bring the pinkertons out of retirement rather than just move the capital somewhere else that's a good thing
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May 9, 2018 16:50
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the kids are communist and socialists because the internet is one big commune of idea exchange
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May 9, 2018 16:50
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Joementum posted:this is probably why hillary lost pretend i put the sickos_  .jpg here
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May 9, 2018 16:52
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SKULL.GIF posted:no they aren't wasn't there a poll that the post millenials generation is equally likely to view socialism and fascism positively?
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May 9, 2018 16:53
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The fact there really isn't much unifying the "left" probably doesnt help either.
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May 9, 2018 16:57
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Joementum posted:this is probably why hillary lost I saw a D&D person actually argue this He also had the balls to claim that Bernie's endorsement is what sank Ossoff
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May 9, 2018 16:58
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Sapozhnik posted:Organize locally. Changes have to come from the bottom up and imo it is actually a good thing that Bernie didn't win, because his victory would have been a mirage and it would have crushed morale even harder when the federal machinery just kept doing its thing unabated. pay your maid
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May 9, 2018 16:58
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Joementum posted:this is probably why hillary lost 
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May 9, 2018 17:02
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Left weakness makes more sense when you realize it's a bunch of different tendencies who literally can't cooperate because there's actually no substantial commonality among the left aside from the fact they want to kill the king, but that's not even true either.
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May 9, 2018 17:04
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Clochette posted:Republican governors and legislatures are caving in to the demands of the teachers' strikes. You don't have to wait years to get leftists elected to make gains, you just have to withhold your labour. The left needs to grab power Being able to organize strikes is power Holding political office is power Having control of media/discourse is power
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May 9, 2018 17:04
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Joementum posted:this is probably why hillary lost
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May 9, 2018 17:05
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Feldegast42 posted:So what do we do then, give up? If we can't convince dem primary voters (and sure as hell can't convince GOP primary voters unless you go full 1488), where does the left gain any real traction? build support. build community. real leftism exists on the streets first and foremost. community organizations, getting out there and helping people. a true movement starts from the bottom up the leftist wave was never going to magically appear out of nowhere just because TRUMP. it's going to take years of organizing and building support, especially if we want to build a real, lasting movement rather than just being a momentary electoral fad like the Democrats' 2008 majority
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May 9, 2018 17:13
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:pay your maid 
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May 9, 2018 17:13
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The Nastier Nate posted:Teacher's are in a in a unique position to be able to strike effectively because nothing gets your constituents riled up like having to use your vacation days (or better yet, unpaid leave from work) to stay home and watch your kids. Or garbage men. MLK was assassinated during his active participation in the Memphis sanitation strike.
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May 9, 2018 17:15
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dem voters keep voting for mainstream dems the same reason republicans keep voting for mainstream republicans despite the fact that republican voters are trumpy as hell: its because its impossible to find out a single thing about a non-presidential race from the media unless you know exactly where to look and are savvy enough to decode the bullshit which if all of those are true then you will certainly will already know who you are voting for. culturally and politically we are so fragmented and de-educated that the only way to gain that savviness is to spend many many hours in self-study and inquiry that americans dont really have the time or energy for. this knowledge and know-how can be transferred through communities (and, extremely importantly, unions) but as we know those have been deliberately broken up by the powers that be. electoral ignorance can be undone by rebuilding better communities and organizing workplaces with political awareness and should basically come up as a natural result of that.
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May 9, 2018 17:17
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none of this poo poo was going to happen overnight and money in politics is kind of the biggest loving issue for a reason lol
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May 9, 2018 17:18
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Joementum posted:this is probably why hillary lost He wouldn't have endorsed her if he wasn't such a woman-hater.  anime was right posted:none of this poo poo was going to happen overnight and money in politics is kind of the biggest loving issue for a reason lol Yup, and that's probably the best route of attack at this moment. At the very least, Trump & co have given money in politics an even worse name than it already had. So make getting money out of politics the rallying cry of the moment. Majorian has issued a correction as of 17:26 on May 9, 2018 |
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May 9, 2018 17:23
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People have been saying it takes time for decades though, and it's not like the "left" has made zero effort. There's more to it than time and effort.
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May 9, 2018 17:23
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I think it's good that establishment politicians are actually being challenged (and people should keep trying) but it's also true that electoral politics are not the be-all-end-all and it's also also true that forming a base that's big enough to create national-level victories is going to require a lot more involvement and community-building than electoral campaigning anyway
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May 9, 2018 17:25
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:People have been saying it takes time for decades though, and it's not like the "left" has made zero effort. There's more to it than time and effort. the left was functionally dead between 1972 and 2016
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May 9, 2018 17:26
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Skedaddle, skidoodle Something about elections rhyming with -oodle
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May 9, 2018 17:27
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Shear Modulus posted:dem voters keep voting for mainstream dems the same reason republicans keep voting for mainstream republicans despite the fact that republican voters are trumpy as hell: its because its impossible to find out a single thing about a non-presidential race from the media unless you know exactly where to look and are savvy enough to decode the bullshit which if all of those are true then you will certainly will already know who you are voting for. culturally and politically we are so fragmented and de-educated that the only way to gain that savviness is to spend many many hours in self-study and inquiry that americans dont really have the time or energy for. this knowledge and know-how can be transferred through communities (and, extremely importantly, unions) but as we know those have been deliberately broken up by the powers that be. electoral ignorance can be undone by rebuilding better communities and organizing workplaces with political awareness and should basically come up as a natural result of that. yes, the great irony of democracy is that while it does increase representation, it can also diffuse and obfuscate responsibility
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May 9, 2018 17:27
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people who get their opinions from msnbc or the nyt opinion page need to be deprogrammed and exposed to outside views without categorically dismissing them just like fox news watchers (not nearly as much of course). the problem is that most voters receive political views from no other place than corporate media and the parties themselves (as of now the dem and republican parties themselves prefer their voters to be mostly deactivated and have no independent political imagination).
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May 9, 2018 17:30
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SKULL.GIF posted:no they aren't Socialists laugh at all those libs high-fiving each other for laying sick owns on repubs and then turn around and do the exact same loving thing to libs on Twitter with zero self-awareness. Large concentrations of disgraced jobless young men are the most fertile possible soil for fascism. The only thing saving us right now is the complete and utter ineptitude of the American fascist movement's current leaders despite them being given regular soapy tit wanks by the New York Times on a practically weekly basis. When somebody competent makes their play for this audience then things will escalate with terrifying velocity. Things very nearly did anyway and then the airport protests happened. That was a Cuban Missile Crisis moment and people barely even noticed. I don't know what the solution is but at the very least we need to acknowledge the problem.
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May 9, 2018 17:31
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RaySmuckles posted:yes, the great irony of democracy is that while it does increase representation, it can also diffuse and obfuscate responsibility thats not a necessary outcome at all its just what the ruling class has engineered since the cold war
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May 9, 2018 17:31
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:People have been saying it takes time for decades though, and it's not like the "left" has made zero effort. There's more to it than time and effort. what universe are you living in the left has been trying harder and being more successful in the past year than it has been in the entire decade before that too bad it takes more than a year of activism to go from zero to sweeping the electoral slate. especially for special elections
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May 9, 2018 17:37
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Sapozhnik posted:Socialists laugh at all those libs high-fiving each other for laying sick owns on repubs and then turn around and do the exact same loving thing to libs on Twitter with zero self-awareness. there's a two panel comic (maybe iww-made) about talking to your coworkers before fascists do. I'd post it here if i could cus it's extremely relevant.
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May 9, 2018 17:39
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Main Paineframe posted:what universe are you living in I live in the universe where people say "it takes time" while making hopeless gestures and things keep getting worse. Are you going to lecture me on the virtues of incrementalism now?
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May 9, 2018 17:40
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:I live in the universe where people say "it takes time" while making hopeless gestures and things keep getting worse. username / post combo 
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May 9, 2018 17:43
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:I live in the universe where people say "it takes time" while making hopeless gestures and things keep getting worse. Are you going to lecture me on the virtues of incrementalism now? "Movements take time to build" is not incrementalism.
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May 9, 2018 17:46
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Cornflakes posted:raise the minimum wage but pay these guys $6.75/hr It's crazy to me how much of an absolute shithead you'd have to be to have a comfortable white-collar job making six figures and openly disagree about raising the minimum wage to $15/hr. I can sorta understand it if the person in question grew up poor, since that creates the illusion of upward mobility being possible, but most of these people seem to have been privileged their entire lives. LinYutang posted:So much for the progressive wave lol It'll take some time for the percent of young people to increase enough to start winning most elections, particularly given it's a huge uphill battle to overcome the hurdle of "most people just blindly vote for the first person on the ballot." If you put the progressive candidate first on the ballots, I can guarantee they'd usually win; this stuff doesn't happen because people are actively deciding "I prefer the less progressive person," but just because the less progressive option is usually the default and people usually aren't as engaged with state/local elections. WhiskeyJuvenile posted:https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/994061337079803905 See above. It isn't that difficult to understand that most people don't have a very coherent ideology and will just choose whoever they perceive as the "default." Establishment candidates will generally have higher name recognition and appear first on the ballot, giving them a massive advantage. It'll be overcome in time as the more left-leaning later generations (millennials and that generation after them) become a larger portion of the voting population, but it'll take some time for things to reach that point. edit: I mean, it's also true that most voters being ideologically incoherent means they also aren't particularly left-leaning, but it's very likely that, among Democratic voters who do have a coherent ideology, leftists are more common than people who directly prefer the establishment candidate based off their ideology/policies. Ytlaya has issued a correction as of 18:03 on May 9, 2018 |
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May 9, 2018 17:52
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Over Easy posted:Anyone read this meandering bourgeois pop psychological Ta-Na Co piece about how Kanye is the race God that failed? I read much of this, and the entire time I thought to myself "why can't it be that Kanye West just be stupid?"
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May 9, 2018 17:53
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:I live in the universe where people say "it takes time" while making hopeless gestures and things keep getting worse. Are you going to lecture me on the virtues of incrementalism now? Incrementalism is aiming for small change. Trying as hard as you know how and only managing to make small changes is not at all the same thing.
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May 9, 2018 17:58
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Oh Snapple! posted:"Movements take time to build" is not incrementalism. The antecedents are a long time coming but the length of time movements take to gain power seems to vary wildly, so I'm not sure if I'd be totally comfortable just saying "it takes time" as one might simply be ignoring data. I mentioned incrementalism because "it takes time" is one of the primary ways that ideological approach has been able to deflect against people pointing to its kind of miserable record of accomplishment.
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May 9, 2018 18:01
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oh wow, people who can be bothered to vote in democratic primaries like traditional democrats? somebody get matty y a medal for that one
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May 9, 2018 18:01
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Why do white people like what I write? by Pankaj Mishra is a must-read imo. i was gonna go through and select excerpts but you should really just read the whole thing It's not paywalled but you have to enter an email address, fake one should be fine
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May 9, 2018 18:01
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