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boar guy posted:the only way i can even get close to finishing refugees on normal is if i deny everybody housing until all the piles are gone I would just say don't be afraid of placing stuff willy-nilly until the piles are cleared and salvage the unnecessary preplaced roads. The cost of reclaiming buildings is generous enough to not break you when rebuilding a few misaligned tents or other Tier 1 buildings.
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May 9, 2018 19:50
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Renounced posted:I would just say don't be afraid of placing stuff willy-nilly until the piles are cleared and salvage the unnecessary preplaced roads. The cost of reclaiming buildings is generous enough to not break you when rebuilding a few misaligned tents or other Tier 1 buildings. well, it's more about having enough wood for research and scouts than it is running out of space
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May 9, 2018 21:30
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After A New Home, Arks on normal was a complete breeze. I had done everything and saved New Manchester before the temperature even started dropping. I think part of it was that there's no punishment for just sending scouts to just pick up everything. Perhaps my perspective will change on playing through this stuff on hard after the next scenario, but Emergency Shift on Workshops is really the most OP thing in the game. You can just charge ahead in terms of tech. Without the incoming pressure of waves of people to house, feed and heal, you're not really tested.
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May 9, 2018 22:16
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Jeza posted:After A New Home, Arks on normal was a complete breeze. I had done everything and saved New Manchester before the temperature even started dropping. I think part of it was that there's no punishment for just sending scouts to just pick up everything. Perhaps my perspective will change on playing through this stuff on hard after the next scenario, but Emergency Shift on Workshops is really the most OP thing in the game. You can just charge ahead in terms of tech. Without the incoming pressure of waves of people to house, feed and heal, you're not really tested.
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May 9, 2018 22:40
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Groetgaffel posted:Someone else said it earlier, but it's probably accounting for windchill. it would have to be in order for the temperatures during the worst part of the storm to even be physically possible. -130 to -150F is plausible during a snowstorm in the Arctic in the middle of a global ice age (on very rare occasions we've actually recorded temperatures that cold in nature in real life), and high winds can easily knock 40 or more degrees off the effective felt temperature. Very high winds, like those you might find in an apocalyptic hellstorm, could plausibly get the effective temperature down into the -200F range, even though the actual air temperature wouldn't actually be anywhere near that cold. It's an unlikely scenario but the endgame storm is at least possible, it could hypothetically happen in an ice-age climate collapse scenario, and the effective felt temperature actually could get that cold for brief periods during the worst part of the storm. the actual air temperature getting that cold, though, is more or less impossible so long as the Earth has an atmosphere, it doesn't get that cold on the surface of loving Mars realistically with windchill that severe the hydraulics in your robots should be freezing up, (the best antifreezing agents available at the time couldn't even come close to handling those temperatures) but given that they've invented completely autonomous AIs in the 1880s I'm willing to accept that they invented better antifreeze too.
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May 9, 2018 23:00
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Mister Bates posted:
Since the automatons have their own power plant of some kind, that looks almost like a mini generator, you could justify them working to be thanks to routing heat through their limbs and/or heating the oil to point where it doesn't freeze.
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May 9, 2018 23:54
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Truga posted:On normal I always just start with tents and keep heating off until it starts getting cold. Not having to pick up coal makes wood much more abundant early. I unintentionally achieved "worse than London" doing that on hard.
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May 10, 2018 00:02
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Finally got the game running... and even on the lowest settings, it's unplayably slow and laggy I'll wait for the PS4 version then... jeez... 
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May 10, 2018 00:19
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I'm skimming through the thread, trying to avoid spoilers and go in fairly blind, but would you all agree that this is a good game that will be better with more content? Worth playing before then, though?
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May 10, 2018 00:20
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Internet Explorer posted:I'm skimming through the thread, trying to avoid spoilers and go in fairly blind, but would you all agree that this is a good game that will be better with more content? Worth playing before then, though? It's a finished product, essentially. All the core fundamentals are there. I've got a decent amount of hours in it having done 2/3 scenarios and not having touched hard mode, or explored every avenue (in terms of the laws).
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May 10, 2018 00:36
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I think I figured out why hope spikes up when the volunteers die in the mines: The code behind funerals doesn't reduce the hope loss from death, instead it provides it's own hope boost afterwards to mitigate it. What happens is that when the volunteers die, the hope reduction for death is not applied because they sacrificed themselves willingly instead of dying due to the player's incompetence. The hope bonus for funerals does get applied 15 times over however. Also I think the soup penalty should be at least partially mitigated if the person eating it is unemployed. You spend your day watching automatons do all the real work from inside your town house next to the generator, pick up your kids from their apprenticeship, drop by the food stores to pick up your di-HOLY gently caress THIS rear end in a top hat CAPTAIN IS SERVING ME SOUP!? THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE!
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May 10, 2018 02:03
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Has anyone here managed to convert all the Londoners before they leave? I got close this last run with just 19 remaining.
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May 10, 2018 02:06
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Tarezax posted:Has anyone here managed to convert all the Londoners before they leave? I got close this last run with just 19 remaining.
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May 10, 2018 02:27
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Tarezax posted:Has anyone here managed to convert all the Londoners before they leave? I got close this last run with just 19 remaining. It's doable, even on hard, you just have to plan ahead. If you go in to the crisis with Hope already very high and Discontent very low they won't gain any followers, and you will be able to start persuading people to abandon them once you get a step or two in to the Faith or Order trees.
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May 10, 2018 02:27
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boar guy posted:well, it's more about having enough wood for research and scouts than it is running out of space For a while I was adamant about skipping Sawmills since they're technically finite (or at least much more limited than coal deposits and wall trees). Would recommend throwing one down on Refugee scenario near the two adjacent coal pile. Don't worry about crushing a few trees placing it, it likely won't break you. Hopefully that will provide enough wood to get you over the early game drought of resources. Tarezax posted:Has anyone here managed to convert all the Londoners before they leave? I got close this last run with just 19 remaining. Done it using Order and Faith, but wasn't able to do it without committing to one of those trees since you'll have no ability to do damage control on special events that raise discontent. Just have to keep Hope high and discontent lowish and use your special building abilities where applicable (on Medium anyway).
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May 10, 2018 03:05
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You need to go to Faith Keepers, at least, otherwise there's too many events popping up around like 'Londoner graffiti! Londoner speech! Londoner assholes!' Honestly at some point I'd let them go with food and a big old smile. All nineteen of you bastards. Sure, try and find London. Here's a compass. e: You'll never need to dip into Wall Drills on New Home. Just use Sawmills. If they run out, which is unlikely, Winterhome lets you ship wood in.
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May 10, 2018 04:25
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gently caress, I got stuck at day 27 of the Ark scenario. I saved New Manchester but can't get to the end with more then ~7600 coal, triggering the loss condition. I'm too durnk to keep going now but tomorrow I'm gonna see if I can make it by turning off the generator entirely, etc. Problem is, until now this scenario was so easy I hadn't saved manually since day 4.
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May 10, 2018 04:26
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Asehujiko posted:I think I figured out why hope spikes up when the volunteers die in the mines: The code behind funerals doesn't reduce the hope loss from death, instead it provides it's own hope boost afterwards to mitigate it. What happens is that when the volunteers die, the hope reduction for death is not applied because they sacrificed themselves willingly instead of dying due to the player's incompetence. The hope bonus for funerals does get applied 15 times over however. this sounds more like a reason to have unemployment reduce discontent than a reason to make a specific soup interaction
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May 10, 2018 07:07
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Yeesh the refugees scenario is pretty difficult to keep up with especially if you refuse to turn on child labor.
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May 10, 2018 07:34
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Groetgaffel posted:Someone else said it earlier, but it's probably accounting for windchill. It would have to be. Otherwise the temperature is cold enough to freeze carbon dioxide. Alternate take: that is the actual temperature and the storm breaking is just a hallucination as you freeze to death. Alternate take 2: Game developers are not climate scientists and picked the temp numbers without much thought to realism.
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May 10, 2018 11:55
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Is upgrading generator range worth it at all? I just went through a normal campaign and all I ever used was steam hubs. Is there a reason to invest in it?
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May 10, 2018 15:23
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Steam hubs are more coal efficient, so no. e: It's actual temperature, and a portion of that snow is dry ice imo 
Truga fucked around with this message at 15:31 on May 10, 2018 |
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May 10, 2018 15:28
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quote is not edit
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May 10, 2018 15:31
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It said -170 Celsius. Isn't that like a million below zero in Freedom numbers?
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May 10, 2018 15:45
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For reference CO2 freezes at -78c and methane freezes at -182c. Nitrogen is at -210c or something. In the final day it almost gets cold enough to freeze your farts. So -170c, lol, get hosed survivors. The thermometer is loving broken and the captain is loving guessing. (or maybe I made it that way as a scare tactic to gain loyalty?)
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May 10, 2018 15:56
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The Skeleton King posted:The thermometer is loving broken and the captain is loving guessing. (or maybe I made it that way as a scare tactic to gain loyalty?) Are you questioning the official temperature given over on top of the propaganda center?" *slams prison roundup button*
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May 10, 2018 16:35
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The Skeleton King posted:The thermometer is loving broken and the captain is loving guessing. (or maybe I made it that way as a scare tactic to gain loyalty?) the aide that tells you the temperature is just lying, because he wants you to turn up the heat from "liveable" to "cozy"
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May 10, 2018 16:43
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Prav posted:the aide that tells you the temperature is just lying, because he wants you to turn up the heat from "liveable" to "cozy" "Sooo.... Wilkins.... you're telling me that it's -183 out right now?" "Uhhh... yes sir! -183, on the nose!" "Then can you explain how that father who I sent out last week with 10 rations is walking back, carrying his daughter in his arms, without too much difficulty?" "....Well uh.... uh...." "Charge up the execution steam."
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May 10, 2018 16:54
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The Skeleton King posted:For reference CO2 freezes at -78c and methane freezes at -182c. Nitrogen is at -210c or something. Does it drop to -170 C? I only remember it going to -150 C at the tail end of the storm after being at -120 C. Is that a difficulty thing or am I just unobservant af? Does the Fahrenheit version go to different temps?
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May 10, 2018 17:08
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Also I got curious, and it seems like CO2 potentially would only sublimate out of air at -140 C due to vapour pressure, which is why CO2 doesn't freeze out of the air at the coldest points on earth. Its freezing point of -78 C only matters at one atmosphere of pressure apparently. So I learned something from this other than that soup is the devil's work.
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May 10, 2018 17:24
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Wow, refugees is really loving hard even on Normal, Jesus. It feels like there just isn't enough of everything.
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May 10, 2018 18:01
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Jeza posted:Does it drop to -170 C? I only remember it going to -150 C at the tail end of the storm after being at -120 C. Is that a difficulty thing or am I just unobservant af? Does the Fahrenheit version go to different temps? I might have a screenshot of it but I'll have to check later today after work. I am pretty sure it hit -170c but I might be wrong. Also I am too lazy to do conversions so who knows if the C and F temperatures match.
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May 10, 2018 18:31
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They definitely say "I can't even hear my thoughts over this wind" or something to that effect implying it's not just cold it's also windy as gently caress.
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May 10, 2018 19:03
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Jesus Christ, Hard is like, unplayably difficult without strict adherence to some optimal build order. I beat all three scenarios my first time on normal, but on hard people eat like horses and get sick instantly. I don't know how you're even supposed to keep people fed in the New Home scenario on hard. Guess I can just write off those achievements because I'd rather not have to follow some critical path.
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May 10, 2018 19:19
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Sawdust
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May 10, 2018 19:22
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Soup, not sawdust. They get sick so quick as it is, sawdust only exacerbates the problem to a dizzying degree, so you lose engineers AND most of your workforce.
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May 10, 2018 19:24
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Sardonik posted:Jesus Christ, Hard is like, unplayably difficult without strict adherence to some optimal build order. I beat all three scenarios my first time on normal, but on hard people eat like horses and get sick instantly. I don't know how you're even supposed to keep people fed in the New Home scenario on hard. Guess I can just write off those achievements because I'd rather not have to follow some critical path. There are a bunch of different ways you can feed people on New Home Hard. Get a hunter's hut down on the second night and keep adding them as new waves of people arrive. Rush tier 2 research and hothouses. Rush beacon and scouts and go find raw food on the map. Soup helps, child labor does too but is not essential. I don't think there is a critical path or an optimum build order that you have to adhere to on any of the scenarios or difficulties, the only time I found myself restarting a lot to figure out a really good first week was when I played Refugees on hard without using child labor and aiming for a no-deaths 'good' ending.
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May 10, 2018 19:32
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jokes posted:They definitely say "I can't even hear my thoughts over this wind" or something to that effect implying it's not just cold it's also windy as gently caress. Acute Grill fucked around with this message at 20:21 on May 10, 2018 |
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May 10, 2018 20:18
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To unlock the fabled Refugee victory on hard: Disassemble the starting roads for a quick infusion of wood! You might think this is a joke until you try that scenario.
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May 11, 2018 01:06
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The Skeleton King posted:I might have a screenshot of it but I'll have to check later today after work. I am pretty sure it hit -170c but I might be wrong.  I use Fahrenheit and converting it the lowest I've seen it is on -150c but I only won on easy. During the storm I was surprised to see people asking for the day off because with an outside temperature of -238 F I was pretty sure people would just die on the way to their job and weren't going. Godspeed little guardsman. New London isn't going to 
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