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hooman posted:No, I'm saying they should be. I'm saying the exact argument for 16 year olds working for less than adults should also apply to apprentices, I'm saying I'm consistent on the case of "being paid below the minimum wage for work is loving bullshit". I agree here, nobody should be paid below minimum wage. I would go as far as to say that minimum wage should be higher across the board and indexed to CPI/median rent prices. I just don't think that paying children less because they're children creates opportunities to entrench child labour. If paying children less means paying them below a living wage, that's fuckin lovely and should be changed. It doesn't have any impact on whether adults get hired for jobs because as we've established, there are a whole range of industries that children aren't even allowed to work in because they (legally, physically, whatever) can't do some tasks that a person who is older than them can do. JBP posted:Running a till does not require months of training and assistance. Depends on the job
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May 10, 2018 02:57
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bell jar posted:I agree here, nobody should be paid below minimum wage. I would go as far as to say that minimum wage should be higher across the board and indexed to CPI/median rent prices. I just don't think that paying children less because they're children creates opportunities to entrench child labour. If paying children less means paying them below a living wage, that's fuckin lovely and should be changed. It doesn't have any impact on whether adults get hired for jobs because as we've established, there are a whole range of industries that children aren't even allowed to work in because they (legally, physically, whatever) can't do some tasks that a person who is older than them can do. the job is running a till
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May 10, 2018 02:59
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hooman posted:EDIT: And if the tradie is also making the minimum wage? Well then that's not an argument to cut the apprentice's pay, that's an argument to raise theirs. yes, exactly. doesn't mean that the apprentice's pay should be raised to match the tradie without consideration for the broader picture
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May 10, 2018 02:59
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If I hired someone to sell poo poo and enter it into a till and they could not do that job without help after a month I would sack them.
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May 10, 2018 02:59
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bell jar posted:I agree here, nobody should be paid below minimum wage. I would go as far as to say that minimum wage should be higher across the board and indexed to CPI/median rent prices. I just don't think that paying children less because they're children creates opportunities to entrench child labour. If paying children less means paying them below a living wage, that's fuckin lovely and should be changed. It doesn't have any impact on whether adults get hired for jobs because as we've established, there are a whole range of industries that children aren't even allowed to work in because they (legally, physically, whatever) can't do some tasks that a person who is older than them can do. Fair enough. Sorry, I misunderstood you, I thought you were saying that there should be lower wages for under 18s, not that it wasn't entrenching child labor. 
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May 10, 2018 03:00
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The federal government paying an 18 year old less than a 20 year old less than an “adult” (at 21) for the same work is bullshit.
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May 10, 2018 03:01
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JBP posted:the job is running a till JBP posted:If I hired someone to sell poo poo and enter it into a till and they could not do that job without help after a month I would sack them. i pity the people you hire with dyscalculia or anything else that precludes them from picking up tasks as quickly as you
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May 10, 2018 03:01
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bell jar posted:i pity the people you hire with dyscalculia or anything else that precludes them from picking up tasks as quickly as you 
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May 10, 2018 03:03
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Birdstrike posted:The federal government paying an 18 year old less than a 20 year old less than an “adult” (at 21) for the same work is bullshit. i can get on board with this. if you're old enough to be able to make adult decisions, you should be paid as an adult. in my head i'm thinking 15/16/17, not the 18-20yo kids
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May 10, 2018 03:03
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bell jar posted:It doesn't have any impact on whether adults get hired for jobs because as we've established, there are a whole range of industries that children aren't even allowed to work in because they (legally, physically, whatever) can't do some tasks that a person who is older than them can do. The fact that children can't work at servos has no impact on the hiring preferences of fast food chains, supermarkets or other similar unskilled jobs. The fact that those children get paid substantially less to do unskilled labour would seem like a likely factor that would impact those job markets. I don't really see how this concept is hard to understand unless you've never been to a supermarket or fast food place before.
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May 10, 2018 03:07
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Periphery posted:The fact that children can't work at servos has no impact on the hiring preferences of fast food chains, supermarkets or other similar unskilled jobs. The fact that those children get paid substantially less to do unskilled labour would seem like a likely factor that would impact those job markets. conversely, if adults and children were paid the same, what motivation would a fast food or supermarket employer have to employ a child over an adult? how do you propose young people enter the labour market when potentially competing with people with 10-15+ years experience than them in unskilled roles
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May 10, 2018 03:20
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bell jar posted:conversely, if adults and children were paid the same, what motivation would a fast food or supermarket employer have to employ a child over an adult? how do you propose young people enter the labour market when potentially competing with people with 10-15+ years experience than them in unskilled roles There's inherent value in being able to train someone to your own preferences and processes though, rather than hire someone who's experienced but might be very stuck in their ways and go "yeah I know you like it this way but AT MY OLD JOB we did it this other way".
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May 10, 2018 03:23
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I think at least one of the big 4 consultancies are now hiring people fresh out of high school instead of requiring qualifications
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May 10, 2018 03:28
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bell jar posted:conversely, if adults and children were paid the same, what motivation would a fast food or supermarket employer have to employ a child over an adult? how do you propose young people enter the labour market when potentially competing with people with 10-15+ years experience than them in unskilled roles i motherfucking love figuring out market-based solutions to labour issues, hell yeah
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May 10, 2018 03:33
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BBJoey posted:i motherfucking love figuring out market-based solutions to labour issues, hell yeah labour: somehow not a market where people are judged on their skill and competency
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May 10, 2018 03:34
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if we can just figure out the correct equation to determine wages we will have 0% employment
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May 10, 2018 03:35
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when you're "Selling your labour" who are you selling it to if not an employer in a labour market? im sorry that my use of the word labour market instead of labour force has triggered you
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May 10, 2018 03:36
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there's no point deciding things are good for one set of workers without wondering if that change actually deprives them of that work
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May 10, 2018 03:39
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bell jar posted:labour: somehow not a market where people are judged on their skill and competency Which is why I, a skilled and competent worker in my field get paid highaahahaaa aaaAAAHAAAHA
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May 10, 2018 03:44
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this is turning into some whirlpool tech worker level discourse
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May 10, 2018 03:47
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Zenithe posted:Which is why I, a skilled and competent worker in my field get paid highaahahaaa aaaAAAHAAAHA don't you work at a petrol station? but really, it's not perfect, or even good really, but it is a market
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May 10, 2018 03:48
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Zenithe posted:Which is why I, a skilled and competent worker in my field get paid highaahahaaa aaaAAAHAAAHA bell jar posted:don't you work at a petrol station? 
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May 10, 2018 03:52
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https://www.vice.com/en_au/article/bj3gdv/i-masturbated-to-the-2018-budget-and-it-was-not-great
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May 10, 2018 04:16
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Vice needs to gently caress off
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May 10, 2018 04:27
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Facebook added up votes and down votes to news stories comments sections once again proving that tech companies are lazy hacks who outsourced comment moderation... To commenters. This has caused people to down vote comments they disagree with until the comment automatically becomes hidden Lmao. https://www.engadget.com/2018/05/01/facebook-downvote-nz-australia/ Anidav fucked around with this message at 04:30 on May 10, 2018 |
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May 10, 2018 04:28
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JBP posted:Vice needs to gently caress off looks like they've already got 'gently caress themselves' sorted
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May 10, 2018 04:28
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Periphery posted:Because people under the age of 18 can't sell cigarettes. They can though.
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May 10, 2018 05:38
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May 10, 2018 05:41
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gently caress no
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May 10, 2018 05:44
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Really? Really??
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May 10, 2018 05:50
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mods please change my name to opposition clapback
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May 10, 2018 05:51
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as millennials we take no responsibility for errors or omissions
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May 10, 2018 05:53
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is this the thread where we talk about Steam refunds and how they're great and everyone is good and supported for doing it because I got loving X Rebirth refunded after blowing fifty on it over four years ago haha joke's on you steam no it's on my for buying X Rebirth, loving hell
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May 10, 2018 06:05
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Yeah, the winking 'millennials are lazy and dumb, amirite?' in the last sentence of a thing supposedly by and for millennials
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May 10, 2018 06:05
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That is pretty much the worst thing I have ever seen.
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May 10, 2018 06:09
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Mods namechange please to Van Badpost
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May 10, 2018 06:14
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this is not lit 100
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May 10, 2018 06:19
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That infographic triggers me
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May 10, 2018 06:20
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as millennials we take no responsibility
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May 10, 2018 06:21
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Don't be stupid, Johnson. Millennials are too busy eating smashed avo and going to concerts to help with this piece. Just google, 'what Millennials say' and we will pretend. That will work. Edit: blacks rule Gentleman Baller fucked around with this message at 06:25 on May 10, 2018 |
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May 10, 2018 06:22
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