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Megazver posted:US is about inter-player conflict, but it doesn't really do any faction stuff. I'm mistaken, then? What role do the factions play? lessavini fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Apr 22, 2018 |
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Apr 22, 2018 22:16
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lessavini posted:On a superficial read I thought the factions exerted some kind of pression on the players, pitting them against each other in the process. Factions are a big deal, but it doesn't really gamify how factions gain and lose power. I'd still recommend looking at it for things like what kind of moves a character would have just because they're in a major faction or GM advice on how to run games with factional conflict that are kind of out of players' control, but don't expect a bunch of rules for how to model the undead being pushed out of this borough because that's basically all just GM moves affecting the fiction.
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Apr 22, 2018 22:27
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lessavini posted:I have Planarch Codex here but never took a good look at it. Will rectify this now, thanks. Assuming you don't find the Planarch Codex doesn't quite scratch that itch (it's very well put together but ultimately still DW, which I'm not a fan of), the approach you originally suggest makes sense. In fact, I'd go further and make each faction a playbook - the Sensate, the Dustman, the Mercykiller, etc etc. They have strong themes, philosophical outlooks, and that ensures lots of interesting player dynamics (because you're not all in the Society of Sensation and so agreeing a lot of the time). Personally I think it would be super cool, but of course would basically have to stay as an off-the-books fan project or risk the wrath of the wizard. You're basically talking about writing an entire new game of course, which isn't necessarily and issue. I mean, if you're as crazy as some of us in here.
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Apr 23, 2018 08:58
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Lupercalcalcal posted:Assuming you don't find the Planarch Codex doesn't quite scratch that itch (it's very well put together but ultimately still DW, which I'm not a fan of), the approach you originally suggest makes sense. In fact, I'd go further and make each faction a playbook - the Sensate, the Dustman, the Mercykiller, etc etc. They have strong themes, philosophical outlooks, and that ensures lots of interesting player dynamics (because you're not all in the Society of Sensation and so agreeing a lot of the time). Personally I think it would be super cool, but of course would basically have to stay as an off-the-books fan project or risk the wrath of the wizard. Other than Urban Shadows, what other games deal with Factions in some way? I suspect SCUP (The Sword, The Crown and the Unspeakable Power) and Legacy could also be interesting places to look at.
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Apr 23, 2018 19:37
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I'm not the Planescape Expert but I feel like this may call for a two-template system, with the Faction template governing more of the "what you stand for and what your goals are" and another being more about the "how you do it." It doesn't have to be leashed to D&D classes.
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Apr 23, 2018 19:46
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That's certainly a way to do it, Jack. But I think the factions already suggest enough though their beliefs and activities to allow a single playbook. For example, Anarchists already cater to spies and saboteurs while Doomguard cater to fighters amd assassins, and Bleakers cater to healers, etc. An important question would be how to implement the "belief shapes reality" motto of Planescape. My first thought is creating moves like "When you do X mark xp"; where X is things central to the factions beliefs. This way players are incentivized to act in specific ways. Alternately, we could reward player behaviour in line with beliefs with Holds to be spent in special, "reality changing" Moves specific to each faction. So for e.g. each time an Athar ("gods are frauds") kick a saint image in front of believers, he gains 1 hold that allows him to fuel a special move (say, one allowing him to nullify believers/miracles effects when he pleases, or just to spread skepticism among crowds). lessavini fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Apr 23, 2018 |
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Apr 23, 2018 20:24
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I wonder whether PbtA games would be easier to introduce to some audiences with a Pop-O--Matic in the middle of the table, rather than people grabbing their dice whenever they've decided that they're triggering a move. I'm approximately half joking.
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Apr 23, 2018 21:25
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How would that not make every game better?
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Apr 23, 2018 21:26
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Halloween Jack posted:How would that not make every game better? That's why I'm only half joking. I think it nicely undercuts some of the RPG assumptions people come in with. The downside is that maybe they're not *~random enough~* I guess?
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Apr 23, 2018 21:30
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lessavini posted:That's certainly a way to do it, Jack. But I think the factions already suggest enough though their beliefs and activities to allow a single playbook. For example, Anarchists already cater to spies and saboteurs while Doomguard cater to fighters amd assassins, and Bleakers cater to healers, etc. Why not both?
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Apr 24, 2018 08:42
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homullus posted:I wonder whether PbtA games would be easier to introduce to some audiences with a Pop-O--Matic in the middle of the table, rather than people grabbing their dice whenever they've decided that they're triggering a move. I'm approximately half joking. This is an incredible idea
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Apr 26, 2018 00:39
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The only thing is people cannot resist playing with Pop-o-Matics so every session would have to start with a 10 minute pop-a-thin to get it out of their systems. Whether this is a downside or an upside I leave to the reader to decide.
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Apr 26, 2018 16:10
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Comrade Gorbash posted:The only thing is people cannot resist playing with Pop-o-Matics so every session would have to start with a 10 minute pop-a-thin to get it out of their systems. Ten minutes of internet research revealed that it's fair amount of trouble (hah!) to make your own Pop-o-Matic.
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Apr 26, 2018 23:00
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I've been tempted to pick up one of these for a friend that cant keep his dice on the table.
the onion wizard fucked around with this message at 14:10 on May 4, 2018 |
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May 4, 2018 14:07
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the onion wizard posted:I've been tempted to pick up one of these for a friend that cant keep his dice on the table. We usually resort to a box of shame, but that's way more amusing (but may also seem like a reward).
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May 5, 2018 02:14
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I've been writing a PbtA hack in my free time. The theme here is police dramas, mainly inspired by The Wire, because it is the best, but drawing on a whole lot of other things. It's been coming along quite nicely, I've never gotten this far in hacking, and I'm not feeling burned out at all yet, so I figured I'd share it with people. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1D_jFRcVok5Dwz4dXIUIgONiLZ_LbvYFA37kpW6eyuVY/edit?usp=sharing (The link should have comments enabled, let me know if I messed it up.) So far I have the first draft of the basic mechanics and moves, and a firm idea of what the Playbooks should be, which I am slowly going to translate into actual mechanics. The general principle is that the game would be centred on cases and have a more episodic feel, like The Sprawl. Through various moves, players would get Clues, which have a value in themselves as XP, but also serve as a "ticket to ride" in that you must have a number of them before the case actually starts rolling and you get Reveals. Reveals are kept on a track and measure how much you already know about the case. They are provided as a result of the players' actions and some moves and represent big breakthrough facts about the case. Once you have Reveals, you can start gathering Evidence, which is both a currency enabling some powerful moves (which I have admittedly yet to write) and what allows you to put the bad guys behind bars. Basically the idea is that there are three degrees of success in the overall Case, meaning that the MC can afford to be ruthless in failing players without them feeling like they have not accomplished anything of note. The first degree of success is solving the case, which is formalised in-game as a move you roll when you fill out the Reveal track (this move also serves as an opportunity to recapitulate the story and fill in any plot holes that may have emerged as a result of play). After that, you move to arrest, which, if successful, is the second degree of success. Finally, the case goes to trial, and the more Evidence you have collected, the better the chance of complete success at sending the bad guys away. This is the third degree of success. Naturally, the whole time the criminals are working to cover up their tracks, and may even just up and run away if backed into a wall. In other words, the core gameplay loop is go do poo poo and get clues for it -> go do casework and get Reveals -> pick up Evidence along the way -> solve the case ->  -> grab some more evidence while you can -> case goes to trial, nice job lads -> start over.For now I am first and foremost looking for advice in regards to the Basic and Peripheral Moves, and the way Cases are structured. I want to have fairly robust core mechanics before I move on to Playbooks. But if someone has a great idea for a move or something, I'd love to hear that as well.
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May 6, 2018 17:53
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Will there be an included mechanism to display how cops are bastards
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May 6, 2018 20:34
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When you grill somebody, roll +hardboiled. A good way to come up with basic moves is to watch some movies / read some books / etc. in the genre, and when you have an iconic scene, think: what (theoretical) move is Detective Johnson using here? He's questioning witnesses on the street, or he turned in the severed hand to forensics and is hearing about what was under the guy's fingernails, or he's getting shouted at by his boss for being a loose cannon, or whatever. If this is a thing that every detective (or whatever) does all the time, make a basic move out of it: when you canvas witnesses, roll this. You can call the forensics team to do this. When you have 4 or more gritty-line-crossing points, this happens. If it's a thing only he does (like, I dunno, Dexter's "hey this reminds me of a murder I committed" thing) then maybe that's a playbook move or something. megane fucked around with this message at 20:50 on May 6, 2018 |
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May 6, 2018 20:38
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So there's this thing I've seen in a few Powered by the Apocalypse systems, including Apocalypse World and Masks, picking an advancement where your character changes playbooks. Have any folks here ended up doing this or seen it happen in their games? It's something I'm a bit skeptical of and wanted to know how that ends up working out mechanically (in what circumstances do you justify a character having a 100% different skillset and abilities in this way?) and within play, so I wanted to have an idea of what that might look like.
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May 7, 2018 10:05
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Megazver posted:Ironsworn looks pretty cool and you can download it for free. Golden Bee posted:Way too many moves, and way too many roll plus your good stat moves. Lupercalcalcal posted:Yeah, I'm tinkering with an Anglo-Saxon inspired pbta game at the moment that touches on some of the same themes as this game, and I seriously thought I was pushing the absolute upper limit on how many lives I had at base... And it's not even two thirds the number in this game. are there game systems similar to this that y'all would recommend? i just started looking at this and holy poo poo i had no idea how much i wanted to play an iron age-style PbtA game with low/no magic until right now.
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May 7, 2018 15:45
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There's Sagas of the Icelanders. (Rulebook Heavily, whom I believe is Icelandic, has some sharp criticism of its historicity.)
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May 7, 2018 16:08
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Saguaro PI posted:So there's this thing I've seen in a few Powered by the Apocalypse systems, including Apocalypse World and Masks, picking an advancement where your character changes playbooks. Have any folks here ended up doing this or seen it happen in their games? It's something I'm a bit skeptical of and wanted to know how that ends up working out mechanically (in what circumstances do you justify a character having a 100% different skillset and abilities in this way?) and within play, so I wanted to have an idea of what that might look like. What was even funnier was when random people started actually listening to the crazy poo poo that Torch (the Faceless) was saying and formed a cult around him. Easy playbook change to Hocus. I've also seen a Chopper change to a Touchstone (lost his gang, found god - or maybe vice versa), and a Quarantine set himself up to go the same direction (let's start the revolution, baby!) but the campaign ended just before he took the advance to do so.
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May 7, 2018 16:11
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SlimGoodbody posted:Will there be an included mechanism to display how cops are bastards I love The Wire and especially love the scene where a detective tricks someone into confessing by making him think a photocopier is a lie-detector, which according to David Simon he actually watched happen. That's some "okay this was kinda hosed up, but we look past it because it's hilarious and we the audience know the guy was actually guilty." There's also some pretty hosed up bungling of procedure leading to deaths and ruined lives, following procedure but still leading to deaths and ruined lives anyway, and then just plain awful bullshit. So to answer this question: Hopefully!
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May 7, 2018 16:11
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Halloween Jack posted:There's Sagas of the Icelanders. (Rulebook Heavily, whom I believe is Icelandic, has some sharp criticism of its historicity.) Can you explain what that was because my friend really took a lot of its historical interpretation to heart? Not to come off as a jerk, but my friend can be such a know-it-all that it is a little fun to point out when he's wrong for believing reading TRPGs or something nerdy makes him an expert on it.
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May 7, 2018 16:22
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I asked him and this is what he said:Rulebook Heavily posted:Oh jeez not now, I've been meaning to for like a year+ but writing thousands of words on Norse conceptions of gender and gender roles just to refute an RPG seems to never fit into my schedule. Remind me though. Now if your friend is saying that you can totally kill a longhouse full of guys by yourself with an attgeir because he read it in a saga, well. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 16:37 on May 7, 2018 |
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May 7, 2018 16:33
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Loki becomes a mare at one point, and gives birth (!) to uber-horse Sleipnir. Odin practices unmanly magic (and is also the boss, so...). There's also less-divine, more legendary accounts of trans individuals, and some archaeological support for female warriors.
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May 7, 2018 18:09
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SlimGoodbody posted:Will there be an included mechanism to display how cops are bastards Bear Enthusiast posted:I love The Wire and especially love the scene where a detective tricks someone into confessing by making him think a photocopier is a lie-detector, which according to David Simon he actually watched happen. That's some "okay this was kinda hosed up, but we look past it because it's hilarious and we the audience know the guy was actually guilty." I want there to be plenty of outlets for you to be a bastard. There is an entire playbook (The Harry) concerned with being a violent gently caress with no regard for procedure, and it is intended to cover a whole range of archetypes from Herc and early Carver, through Dirty Harry, to Officer Tenpenny style rear end in a top hat (although if you are on the level of Tenpenny, Walker, or Vic Mackey, you're probably an antagonist at that point, I'm still ironing out if I want to set a line here). On the other hand, if you prefer to be a bastard to people who trust you and rely on you, there's The Bunk, an entire playbook for being a self-destructive fuckup (and possibly recovering, if that's your thing) who harms people around him. If you wish to be a jackass to your coworkers, play The Jay. If you want to lord how you are untouchable and steal the spotlight from others, play The Interloper. And, in any case, you have The Bosses, who are assholes by definition, and never stop being assholes. megane posted:When you grill somebody, roll +hardboiled. This is a good overall advice and two good specific points to think about. But I decided I want to keep the moves count low, and kind of punted the things about canvassing large groups of witnesses on the scene or setting up a crime scene. They are, I feel, things that would not be exciting to roll for or really even do, since you can just place a helpful first responder full of exposition on the scene. If you want to talk to witnesses, you should probably be talking to specific, important witnesses, rather than people who won't ever appear again, and at that point you can roll this like any other interaction (and if you really want to grill someone, there's the interrogate move). Forensics are not really interesting in and of themselves, in my view (rather, it is the results of it confirming or denying hypotheses or having it be a limited resource - see requisitions), unless you make it a CSI-style focus of the entire thing - which is why The Temperance playbook exists. Also I can see that someone dumped a bunch of comments on me - thanks, whoever you are! I'll get to reading them right away.
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May 7, 2018 18:42
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Saguaro PI posted:So there's this thing I've seen in a few Powered by the Apocalypse systems, including Apocalypse World and Masks, picking an advancement where your character changes playbooks. Have any folks here ended up doing this or seen it happen in their games? It's something I'm a bit skeptical of and wanted to know how that ends up working out mechanically (in what circumstances do you justify a character having a 100% different skillset and abilities in this way?) and within play, so I wanted to have an idea of what that might look like. Remember that when you change playbooks, you keep your existing moves and stuff, as appropriate. It's not a 100% different skillset and abilities, it's just losing some of what you had, because you aren't really that guy anymore, and gaining some abilities, to reflect who you are now. I was playing Torch in the campaign that Ilor mentioned, and when he became a Hocus, he kept a lot of moves (I would have ended the world before giving up Oh Yeah!) but I gave up Bloodcrazed, Normal, Rasputin, The Unexpected, and Scent of Blood. Those changes reflected that the nature of Torch's crazy had changed, and so had his behavior. He had responsibilities to his flock, rather than just externalizing his crazy by painting the walls with his enemies' blood, and that settled him down in some ways, but made him so much weirder in others. I had an indecent amount of fun playing that character.
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May 7, 2018 19:52
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Ilor posted:Happened all the time in our games. When you character gets to a certain point, that evolution becomes part of the story. For instance, in our AW game set on a dilapidated space station on the far side of a collapsed wormhole, fellow Goon BlackIronHeart's character Swan (the Operator) killed off the Bad Hombre (tm) running "the Den," which was one of the few remaining heavy-manufacturing facilities still operating on the station (and responsible for most weapons production). At this point, taking over made perfect sense. Suddenly Swan was concerned less about pulling minor scores and instead worrying about how to make his hold secure and his rule unchallenged - he had become the Hardholder. Zorak of Michigan posted:Remember that when you change playbooks, you keep your existing moves and stuff, as appropriate. It's not a 100% different skillset and abilities, it's just losing some of what you had, because you aren't really that guy anymore, and gaining some abilities, to reflect who you are now. I was playing Torch in the campaign that Ilor mentioned, and when he became a Hocus, he kept a lot of moves (I would have ended the world before giving up Oh Yeah!) but I gave up Bloodcrazed, Normal, Rasputin, The Unexpected, and Scent of Blood. Those changes reflected that the nature of Torch's crazy had changed, and so had his behavior. He had responsibilities to his flock, rather than just externalizing his crazy by painting the walls with his enemies' blood, and that settled him down in some ways, but made him so much weirder in others. Thanks for the insight. That makes a lot of sense.
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May 8, 2018 08:52
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Tevery Best posted:Also I can see that someone dumped a bunch of comments on me - thanks, whoever you are! I'll get to reading them right away. That's me, you're welcome. It looks really cool, especially the concept of building up those resources towards solving the case. Also after reading the actual playbook feel free to disregard my comment on "The Bunk", I missed some of the nuance.
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May 8, 2018 18:07
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Covok posted:Can you explain what that was because my friend really took a lot of its historical interpretation to heart? Not to come off as a jerk, but my friend can be such a know-it-all that it is a little fun to point out when he's wrong for believing reading TRPGs or something nerdy makes him an expert on it. Though, to be fair with the game, I don't think being historically accurate is really the point, as much as exploring the social and gender stuff seen in the Sagas. It was a hell of fun seeing boys fighting due to the "When honor is questioned" move, while the girls "Incited each other" behind their backs. XD lessavini fucked around with this message at 19:08 on May 9, 2018 |
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May 9, 2018 19:06
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I played Monsterhearts 2 today and its rad to be a poo poo head and everyone had a good giggle.
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May 9, 2018 22:50
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I find it kind of weird to role play dating high schoolers. Daring, sure, but dating...?
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May 10, 2018 14:08
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Monsterhearts is not my particular thing, but I do recommend everyone read it just to see what near-perfect game design looks like.
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May 10, 2018 14:11
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Pollyanna posted:I find it kind of weird to role play dating high schoolers. Daring, sure, but dating...?
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May 10, 2018 14:18
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Coffeeshop AU
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May 10, 2018 14:22
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Monsterhearts is a really well designed game and it’s good that it exists, but a lot of folks seem to underestimate just how much it could go sideways. It’s not a game I’d play with a pickup group ever. A number of the playbooks lean into potentially abusive relationship dynamics or could be vectors for toxic players to act out fetishes at the table. You have to have a really clear discussion about lines and veils at the start, and trust that the group will stick to it, and the ability to stop play and work things out midstream without anyone getting bent out of shape. If you have that - and there are groups that do! - Monsterhearts can be amazing. If you don’t, then it’s probably not the game for your group.
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May 10, 2018 14:40
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It's also a game where you sometimes just need to recognize it is not for you. I appreciate Monsterhearts very much, its well designed and a cool addition to our hobby's landscape, and the author's real cool. But I will never play it, because it is very much not for me. And that's okay.
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May 10, 2018 15:01
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Monsterhearts works well for PBP because the distance makes it easier to deal with difficult content and deal with it appropriately if lines get crossed. (And also for playing someone who is half your age and a different gender, navigating the most difficult phase of their life.) I have read accounts on the Story Games forum of games going horribly wrong, but it struck me that they were interpreting the most potentially problematic content in the worst way possible and then doubling down on it. (For example, a Ghoul player interpreting their Hunger for another PC as "I should drag my girlfriend out of class in broad daylight so I can sexually assault her.") Unless you're playing with people who are just toxic creeps to begin with, there are multiple points where a reasonable person would say "Let's act out my character's motivation in a different way because ew" that you have to sprint past in order to get to FATAL & Friends territory.
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May 10, 2018 15:01
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To be honest, that’s the precise response I was referring to. That failure mode is not unique to MH, though the subject tends to push it to the forefront. The creep lord Ghoul player in that example is going to pull something at some point, regardless of game. It just happens sooner in MH. There is an aspect there that is particular to MH and games dealing with the same subjects in that the it creates a greater degree of vulnerability for the other players when someone does something heinous like that, but ultimately those sorts of players are just to be avoided in all games. But more importantly I absolutely do not think it has to be at that level for things to go badly, and because of the subject matter and the way certain playbooks work, players can harm each other even with the best of intentions. MH itself, 2nd edition especially, does a great job of upfronting that and talking about how to navigate it. I do not think the discussion around the game does nearly as good a job, and in fact tends to minimize that risk. Again, I think it’s an excellent game and it addresses those issues well. But it’s a disservice to potential players to act as if there isn’t potential for discomfort or hurt to result even when everyone is being respectful, or that it doesn’t require a higher degree of trust and care to play. To put it another way, MH inherently deals with subjects that most folks have to learn to navigate, and during that learning process they can injure themselves and others entirely unintentionally. I think it’s really important that if you’re in an MH game everyone has a very clear understanding of that and are past a certain point in that process. It’s essentially recognizing a form of clumsiness - a clumsiness that will be grown out of, but until that happens it’s to everyone’s benefit they not be handed sharp tools without having a chance to practice in a safe environment first. I can imagine a game of MH that exists within that kind of environment, but you have to know it’s needed and create it ahead of time, which just goes back to the need for extra trust and care. To extend the metaphor a bit, most other TTRPGs aren’t as “sharp” as MH. The horror story players are perfectly able to come at you with a cudgel as a knife, but there are a lot of other players where the difference represents a bump or at worst a bruise, vs a deep cut.
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May 10, 2018 15:55
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