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A Moose posted:Is there a way for tron to beat that rats deck, or is it just ultra-specifically targeted at me? Seems like it would lose to anything that plays a creature on turn 1 or 2. like im trying to think of anything that i could side in to break the lock, but it seems like you're poo poo out of luck unless you can play like 8 counterspells per game. Any sort of Rats deck is going to be a tremendous dog to Tron, either removal or Moment's Peace/Stonehorn-based. Whether you mean the UB Flicker deck that uses Chittering Rats, the Mono-Back Rats decks that play Ravenous/Chittering/Liliana's Spectre, or some sort of Relentless Rats or Rat Colony brew, Tron is going to beat it since the opponent just can't apply pressure fast enough. e: also waiting on tiebreakers for the challenge, holy moley another 9th is gonna hurt... e2: not 9th, top 8 time Hellsau fucked around with this message at 00:30 on May 7, 2018 |
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May 7, 2018 00:03
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little munchkin posted:can you post an example of this rats deck? https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/pauper-ub-32499#online I think it was this deck.
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May 7, 2018 00:29
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Hellsau posted:Any sort of Rats deck is going to be a tremendous dog to Tron, either removal or Moment's Peace/Stonehorn-based. Whether you mean the UB Flicker deck that uses Chittering Rats, the Mono-Back Rats decks that play Ravenous/Chittering/Liliana's Spectre, or some sort of Relentless Rats or Rat Colony brew, Tron is going to beat it since the opponent just can't apply pressure fast enough. Good luck! Are you streaming?
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May 7, 2018 00:43
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A Moose posted:https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/pauper-ub-32499#online I think it was this deck. I play that deck and tron is extremely favored. You just outvalue them. By the time they've set up the combo you should have massive amounts of mana, enough to cast mulldrifters and mnemonic walls while holding up a bunch of countermagic. Or you can keep capsizing their lands. Game one might be tricky if you don't have that much countermagic mainboard but add a bunch of pyroblasts for game 2 and 3 then you're good. A Moose posted:Seems like it would lose to anything that plays a creature on turn 1 or 2. It runs a ton of cheap removal and doesn't rely on flicker much agaisnt aggro decks. Just kill their stuff and get 2-for-1s out of your creatures and pretty soon they're out of cards.
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May 7, 2018 00:57
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Flea Bargain posted:Good luck! Are you streaming? Streaming MTGO is a real bad idea, but I am recording it. Also smoked White Tokens in the top 8, on to a revenge match against Tribe who beat me in the Swiss. e: got my revenge 2-0, now in the finals against the other player I lost to in the Swiss on UR Delver. e2: died in finals, holy crap my opponent had some insane draws both matches. They did say they were having a bit of a luck run, and they were not incorrect. Time to upload lots and lots of stuff I guess. I almost beat triple Delver game one and they managed to topdeck on the last three turns to break my heart 
Hellsau fucked around with this message at 02:01 on May 7, 2018 |
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May 7, 2018 01:12
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I went back to Seattle for Rags to Riches yesterday, opting to play MBC because I'm an idiot and can't ever read or predict the meta there. I ended up 4-2, losing to Elves (god-like draws and multiple Lead the Stampedes for 5 will do that) and a pretty stock Tron list. Pretty pleased with my results, but I didn't get to play against a single U/UR Delver deck all day, which I was angling to play and beat. Anyway, the important part is that I made it back on stream with a new playmat. 
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May 7, 2018 02:22
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 This is loving incredible.
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May 7, 2018 02:28
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That playmat, those pronouns. What was your decklist trill? Congrats on the run hellsau.
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May 7, 2018 02:46
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Congrats on 2nd Hellsau, awesome effort. Maybe I should get gud and build Tron online instead of just paper.
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May 7, 2018 05:11
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always be closing posted:What was your decklist trill? Here it is. My sideboard choices I think were suboptimal. I'd probably cut Wrench Mind in favor of at least one Nihil Spellbomb. I opted to run Wail of the Nim in favor of Shrivel just for the instant speed (although the pipe dream of regenerating all your creatures against a last hope Rolling Thunder from Tron would be funny and good).
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May 7, 2018 17:24
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Challenge decklists: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/pauper-challenge-2018-05-07 My finals opponent on UR Delver only has 3 Bolt and 3 Pyroblast, I am a bit salty learning this given the situation of my losses to them. I cannot believe people are stupid enough to play that Ghitu Lavarunner build of Burn. Having so many horrendous topdecks in your burn deck is suicidal. Though if everyone moves off of Thermoalchemists and Firebrand Archers, my deck certainly becomes much better since my worst matchup suddenly becomes a positive one. I gotta stop recording at 1440p, or maybe learn how to work with video files. I set my computer to upload 50GB of stuff to Youtube last night and we're 80% through.
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May 7, 2018 20:36
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Hellsau posted:I cannot believe people are stupid enough to play that Ghitu Lavarunner build of Burn. Having so many horrendous topdecks in your burn deck is suicidal. that's the whole point of putting a haste creature in instead of a creature you need to untap with... also burn with 4x lavarunners won rags to riches over the weekend, just go ahead and accept that the card is good
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May 7, 2018 20:46
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I'm legitimately curious: is there a reason there's no Elves anywhere? Is it super prohibitive to build online?
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May 7, 2018 20:48
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little munchkin posted:that's the whole point of putting a haste creature in instead of a creature you need to untap with... That build has the vulnerability to removal that the other creature plan has, except only instant-speed so I guess it somewhat protects you from Chainer's Edict and Journey to Nowhere, while adding a vulnerability to fog effects and opposing creatures. I just don't see what adding those creatures brings given that it turns some of your autowin matchups into bad ones, am I missing something? What matchup is Ghitu Lavarunner fixing that is worth that tradeoff? Some Numbers posted:I'm legitimately curious: is there a reason there's no Elves anywhere? Is it super prohibitive to build online? I play against Elves a lot in leagues. The deck suffers badly from sideboard cards and from one or two removal spells on the only relevant creatures you draw. Sometimes you don't hit one of your 7 blue sources + Distant Melody, or you miss on Lead the Stampede or don't even draw one. Also I flooded out a lot with my 9 Forest 4 Land Grand Elves deck an awful lot, lol mtgo. It's powerful but too inconsistent for me.
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May 7, 2018 21:46
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My recordings from last Sunday's Pauper Challenge are up on Youtube. I played pretty bad in multiple rounds and there is no justice in the world so I won a bunch anyway. Also I redid the in depth deck tech because the first one was terrible.
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May 8, 2018 05:51
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Hellsau posted:My recordings from last Sunday's Pauper Challenge are up on Youtube. I played pretty bad in multiple rounds and there is no justice in the world so I won a bunch anyway. Been watching these, some at 1x and some at 1.5x. On to round 7 right now, this is good stuff and I'm learning a lot. Your clicking isn't annoying, you berating yourself for it is though a little bit. If it bugs you, can you set your mic up in a way that it doesn't pick it up? Just a thought. More content like this please!
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May 11, 2018 16:13
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Hellsau posted:My recordings from last Sunday's Pauper Challenge are up on Youtube. I played pretty bad in multiple rounds and there is no justice in the world so I won a bunch anyway. I liked these as well, very interesting.
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May 11, 2018 17:32
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Flea Bargain posted:Been watching these, some at 1x and some at 1.5x. On to round 7 right now, this is good stuff and I'm learning a lot. Your clicking isn't annoying, you berating yourself for it is though a little bit. If it bugs you, can you set your mic up in a way that it doesn't pick it up? Just a thought. More content like this please! evilweasel posted:I liked these as well, very interesting. Good news! There's more. League #1 and League #2. Also yeah I could move my mic around, but instead I just made a sign that says "STOP CLICKING" and put it behind my monitor to remind me to stop clicking. Problem solved. Tron is busted. It just beats all the grindy decks simply because of the mana advantage, so I can focus on everything else. It's really dumb. Hopefully they'll ban Delver and Gush and Gitaxian Probe and Tron and Flicker and Rancor. e: lol I'm 26-4 in my last 30 matches, ban tron. 
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May 12, 2018 02:16
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https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/playing-pauper-ponza Deck looks actually kinda cool. Thoughts?
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May 12, 2018 04:04
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Matsuri posted:https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/playing-pauper-ponza It can't beat Tron and it probably can't beat a turn one Delver of Secrets so...unplayable?
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May 12, 2018 04:46
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man. I'm really starting to agree with you on banning tron and delver. Cool creative decks getting stomped out of the format just isn't fun at all.
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May 12, 2018 04:56
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what on earth is this: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1082779#paper
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May 12, 2018 05:03
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Johnny Five-Jaces posted:what on earth is this: a goofy deck that went 3-4? i've never seen it on the 5-0 dumps so it can't be that good Matsuri posted:man. I'm really starting to agree with you on banning tron and delver. Cool creative decks getting stomped out of the format just isn't fun at all. the ban should be flicker imo. tron decks were fine before everyone realized that they didn't need to bother with proactive cards and could win every matchup with flicker loops
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May 12, 2018 05:11
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Matsuri posted:man. I'm really starting to agree with you on banning tron and delver. Cool creative decks getting stomped out of the format just isn't fun at all. I wouldn't say an LD deck is something that is cool and deserves to survive, but the fact that they just cannot beat aggro decks or the best control deck is pretty bad for its prospects. Hell I had a crushing winrate against the UG LD deck with Familiars, a deck with 6 bouncelands. It's just super difficult to play an LD deck without a quick and resilient win condition since land destruction is like burn - if you don't actually kill your opponent, if they're still around and casting spells, then you wasted all that effort and it's like you didn't do anything at all. If you spend 6 cards burning your opponent down to 1, until you can deal the final point then there's effectively no difference than if they were still at 20. If you destroy 6 of your opponent's lands, but they still hit 3 mana and are casting card draw spells to find more lands, then you might as well have not bothered in the first place. The LD decks that play blue are entirely dependent on their Mulldrifters, because their 4 Mulldrifters are their only good cards. The black LD decks need to hit a Peat Bog on turn 1 or a Dark Ritual in the first two turns, otherwise they're too slow to stop their opponents. The red LD decks are garbage because they run out of cards, and the mono-green LD deck has a high chance of flooding out and their win conditions are easily killed. Even if the LD decks had an autowin matchup against all the bounceland control and midrange decks (they don't) they'd still be a dog to all the extremely powerful aggressive decks in Pauper. little munchkin posted:the ban should be flicker imo. tron decks were fine before everyone realized that they didn't need to bother with proactive cards and could win every matchup with flicker loops Flicker should go for sure, but Displace is close enough and Tron is just broken in so many games that I play. Hell even without Flicker I'm sure it would be super difficult to beat Tron with all the control and midrange decks which kind of screws up the metagame. Hellsau fucked around with this message at 05:15 on May 12, 2018 |
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May 12, 2018 05:13
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if y'all insist on playing goofy jank build this so you can actually win games: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/pauper-ug-49909#paperHellsau posted:Even if the LD decks had an autowin matchup against all the bounceland control and midrange decks (they don't) they'd still be a dog to all the extremely powerful aggressive decks in Pauper. I've never seen the mono green version in the wild but control can't beat the r/g versions with actual 3 mana stone rain and also a stone rain with flashback
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May 12, 2018 05:13
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Hellsau posted:It can't beat Tron and it probably can't beat a turn one Delver of Secrets Pauper.txt
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May 12, 2018 05:35
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I'm going to my first pauper event on Tuesday, and I'm bringing Bogles since I had the playset of slippery Bogles and figured that it would be pretty hard to mess up. Anything special I should be aware of besides "beware edict effects"?
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May 12, 2018 07:51
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Jesus Hellsau, I would have been heaps saltier after that loss in the finals. MODO whitelist much?
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May 12, 2018 13:49
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Flea Bargain posted:Jesus Hellsau, I would have been heaps saltier after that loss in the finals. MODO whitelist much? Eh, my deck is specifically built to accept losses to nut draws. Can't be too salty when I lose to a nut draw. Though I am salty that they only played 3 Bolts and 3 Pyroblasts, and I died to them ripping Bolt and died to them having that obscene draw game 2 with the triple-Sprite, triple-Counterspell and double-Pyroblast.
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May 12, 2018 15:22
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Trip report: playing tron for the first time i can't seem to lose unless i blatantly misplay, one match loss was due to time, shoutout to the tortured existence player who never got me below 18 life but values his time so little that they sat there and made me play out milling him with Compulsive Research two games in a row. Hellsau, what's your method of choice for closing out a game as fast as possible when you've basically got infinite mana and infinite cards but your opponent has a bunch of creatures and refuses to concede?
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May 13, 2018 04:23
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little munchkin posted:Trip report: playing tron for the first time Clear their mana with Capsize and then either bounce their creatures and beat them down, or if their board is too full just mill em with Compulsive. Generally if I can spend less than ~7 seconds per turn cycle I'll just let each deck dwindle down before Compulsiving, but if my opponent's actually making me do stuff I'll aggressively end the game after ensuring they can't stop me. If they're just playing a bunch of garbage like preboard TortEx or the random Plains/Forest aggro decks I won't even bother with their mana and will just deck them or kill 'em with Mulldrifters, but generally you'll have to clear their mana out with Capsize, which requires you to build up mana until you can Capsize 2 or 3 times in a turn while also maintaining an anti-combat lock, so it can take a while. If my opponent has 10 lands in play and I can't Capsize three times a turn, then I'll generally just stack more and more Stonehorn triggers so that when I do build up to enough mana I can forgo Flickering and focus on Capsizing their mana away. It's tremendously more efficient to just attack the enemy to death rather than use Compulsive, so if they don't have a million fliers and/or a big lifegain engine I'll try to just bounce their blockers and swing through, bounce their mana then their blockers so they can't recast them, or bounce their stuff and counter it on the way back down and recur the counters with Flickering two Walls. Usually if I can finish game 1 with 15 minutes I can't time out. If I have a difficult kill, like if two of my Walls are in the bottom four cards or whatever, I'll hope to finish with 12 minutes left which will give me time even with another difficult win assuming I don't lose a close game. If I finish game one with less than 10 minutes I am much more likely to aggressively mulligan to a broken start, or aggressively F6 through opposing plays just to find out if the game is winnable before commiting too much time, since you really gotta start game 3 with 6+ minutes. Even if you get screwed where you need to Compulsive the opponent out and your Walls are way the gently caress far down, you can Compulsive someone out really fast if you've got all your mana in play. You only need like 3 turns to safely deck someone from 40 cards or whatever. It's just a matter of doing so before you're at risk of timing out. I have never wanted a Rolling Thunder or whatever. All my cards do things, and having a do-nothing that may or may not be a faster kill and otherwise will frequently be a useless card feels like a huge liability. Rolling Thunder doesn't even beat a Wellwisher or Soul Warden padded life total. Maybe if Compelling Argument were an Instant it'd be an option but it isn't so as far as I can tell, Compulsive is still the best alternate win condition.
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May 13, 2018 05:31
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I only play in paper, and I only now realized you can stack "skip next combat" triggers. Thank you for pointing that out Hellsau.
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May 13, 2018 07:32
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PJOmega posted:I only play in paper, and I only now realized you can stack "skip next combat" triggers. Thank you for pointing that out Hellsau. Yeah Stonehorn Dignitary is ludicrously complex for a common.
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May 13, 2018 08:00
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Hey Hellsau, I had your deck in my cart in Cardhoarder before you came second and it's gone up a whole 6 tix when I went to order it right now, thanks a lot jerk.
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May 13, 2018 08:51
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Flea Bargain posted:Hey Hellsau, I had your deck in my cart in Cardhoarder before you came second and it's gone up a whole 6 tix when I went to order it right now, thanks a lot jerk. I'm 5-1 with 66% tiebreaks going into round 7, facing 3 Stompy, MBC, UR Stuff (never saw a Flicker or a counterspell or an Archaeomancer so who knows, buncha card draw critters and burn) and Affinity. Really good metagame for Stonehorn Tron so uh, I guess get your Blasts and Moment's Peaces now? Also I'm recording in 1080p and uploading as I go so it should be up on Youtube like half an hour after my last round. This deck is just broken.
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May 13, 2018 22:57
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so 9-6 after 3 leagues without ever playing tron before 2 losses due to time, both g/b players whose decks did absolutely nothing. is mnemonic wall bugged or something because I cant get the "always say yes to this ability" feature to work. Also if i'm casting a spell that needs some colorless mana, go ahead and assume that's what I'm tapping my tron lands for, mtgo. 2 losses due to miscounting mana or tapping my colored mana sources wrong. I always feel so rushed that there's no time to actually stop and check if I can actually cast Moment's Peace 2 losses due to an opponent actually doing something more powerful than me. one was a Kiln Fiend deck that never gave me time to both advance my gameplan and cast a fog effect in the same turn. The other was a U/B control deck that ran a shitload of mind rot effects. Turns out u/b control can beat tron, you just need to play a bunch of borderline unplayable cards and have your curse mill away two spells, leaving a land on top 4 turns in a row. Also you need a monarch emblem. deck feels super busted. ban ghostly flicker
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May 14, 2018 01:21
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Always yield/always yes only applies to that specific source of that ability. If you flicker a wall, it counts as a new source, and so it forgets you want to always yield. Just modo things.
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May 14, 2018 01:35
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Jabor posted:Always yield/always yes only applies to that specific source of that ability. If you flicker a wall, it counts as a new source, and so it forgets you want to always yield. extremely cool that the main weakness of the deck is that the interface sucks and occasionally people don't just auto concede when you reveal ghostly flicker off of a teachings
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May 14, 2018 01:38
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I take it Tron plays better in paper where you can explain a combo rather than demonstrate it ad infinitum?
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May 14, 2018 01:55
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Matsuri posted:I take it Tron plays better in paper where you can explain a combo rather than demonstrate it ad infinitum? Yes and no, I find that my opponents play on too long and waste both our time and I win 1-0-0 like 20% of the time even though I'm a fast player irl. It's a hell of a lot more convenient to play though, yeah.
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May 14, 2018 02:13
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