|
Accretionist posted:Also, I would differentiate between isolated one-offs and grassroots efforts. Strangely I used to hear this a lot when more progressive Methodist Church conferences were trying to convince the national conference to permit gay marriage in earnest a decade ago.
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 04:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 21:07 |
|
|
Funny how, to the reactionary, progressive movements tend to look like a bunch of one-offs. You're not going to overcome the fundamental hurdle here: meaningful political action on climate change will be severely stinted without expanding normalization of the changes we need to see. Personally contribute to making smaller cars look more acceptable to a society with a lot of hangups on conspicuous consumption. Make tiny community solar initiatives. Push for higher SEER rating hvac. Make family multitenancy or living with extended family normal -- instead of a little socially shameful -- again. Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 05:15 on May 13, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 05:07
|
|
|
Why the gently caress am I sitting here explaining the common trajectory of nearly every progressive movement in US history as though I was conversing with a loving adult gently caress this.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 05:25
|
|
|
You have to measure this with relation to goals. Are you effecting change? Are you easing acceptance of change? Both? Something more specific? What? And what goals did you imagine I had in mind? Potato Salad posted:as though I was conversing with a loving adult You read, "cynical," and hallucinated a whole bunch of poo poo. You're conversing with your own strawman.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 05:31
|
|
|
I read the above post a few times but mentally changed the context to stuff like the civil rights movement or gilded age labor movements. It's like reading a period editorial.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 05:39
|
|
|
You're still yelling at your own hallucinations. (I hope you're swallowed up by rising seas)
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 05:41
|
|
|
Less yelling, more sitting here giggling watching a progress bar inch across the screen Let it never be said this forum is dead. It's anything but dead.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 05:45
|
|
|
I mean look at this. Here's the initiation of the personal responsibility branch unrelated to cats:Tyrgle posted:Let me make this easy: I'll draw the line at nothing at all. The only necessity is to participate in civic activities (i.e. voting / activism). Technically correct, but when you adopt the bolded bit, you have relegated yourself to being, uh, very passive on the issue at best, more fairly you're just another part of the inertia problem, at worst indistinguishable from a political free rider complicit with opposition forces. You try bringing this up with your DSA chapter. Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 06:01 on May 13, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 05:54
|
|
|
Nice meltdown.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 07:38
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:To repeat, it appears you are much more invested in convincing some bystander that OOCC is a detestable individual rather than e.g. climate change and what to do about it. The solution is to make everyone detest fliers so it become socially unacceptable to fly anymore. Based on personal observation, flying now is a lot less acceptable than say two years ago. Attitudes are shifting here anyway.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 07:40
|
|
|
His Divine Shadow posted:The solution is to make everyone detest fliers so it become socially unacceptable to fly anymore. Based on personal observation, flying now is a lot less acceptable than say two years ago. Attitudes are shifting here anyway. Perchance are attitudes changing because individuals are making personal changes ahead of political changes
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 07:56
|
|
|
Meanwhile... https://twitter.com/ZLabe/status/995335759082094594
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 08:13
|
|
|
Potato Salad posted:Perchance are attitudes changing because individuals are making personal changes ahead of political changes Of course not, its because there is a crazy new technology that brainwashed people.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 14:10
|
|
|
salad man i'm with you its really amazing how in-the-grooves the debate works out to every other form of social progress. the entitled reactionaries will either be worked around, dealt with, or lost to. they will never be convinced.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 14:31
|
|
|
You can convince 'em. It just has to become real. I'm not kidding about floating your views on personal responsibility with your DSA chapter, Accretionist, unless you already know they paint you as dead weight or an enabler.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 14:39
|
|
|
Thug Lessons posted:Nice meltdown. I just had to expand this. Now, why would the guy who peddles his own conclusions as those of the scientific community take issue with the concept of personal accountability 
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 15:06
|
|
|
guys it doesnt matter if i cross the carbon picket line, if i don't someone else just will IT DOESNT MATTER - a "socialist"
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 15:12
|
|
|
"solidarity doesnt matter we can only affect change through getting the existing capitalist order to self-regulate better" - a "socialist"
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 15:14
|
|
|
ha Write off yet another comfortable lump of inertia wielding DSA tags as a shield against scrutiny
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 15:31
|
|
|
What's the consensus around here regarding massive geoengineering projects to pull CO2 out of the atmosphere? From what little I know about this, they could have unintended consequences, like causing droughts in poor countries. Also an expected effect climate change. Welp.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 16:45
|
|
|
I've been watching conference talks and my take-away is that it's all so preliminary as to be purely hypothetical. Any concrete answer would require a lot of R&D and a few years.StabbinHobo posted:guys it doesnt matter if i cross the carbon picket line, if i don't someone else just will IT DOESNT MATTER I'm sorry I'm polluting your brand by thinking it's far, far too late? Edit: Unless you can pull off 'totalitarian asceticism' within 20 years, the best you could hope for is priming public acceptance of changes which will be produced by other means. Accretionist fucked around with this message at 17:03 on May 13, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 16:49
|
|
|
Ramrod Hotshot posted:What's the consensus around here regarding massive geoengineering projects to pull CO2 out of the atmosphere? They don't exist; carbon capture has to be point source.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 16:49
|
|
|
Ramrod Hotshot posted:What's the consensus around here regarding massive geoengineering projects to pull CO2 out of the atmosphere? It's more like geoengineering focuses on stuff like cloud seeding while co2 sequestration is an entirely different subject. Treat symptoms vs cure illness.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 16:53
|
|
|
Ramrod Hotshot posted:What's the consensus around here regarding massive geoengineering projects to pull CO2 out of the atmosphere? It's the geo-engineering projects intended to cool the earth via dispersing aerosols in the atmosphere that get people worried about unintended consequences. The massive geoengineering project intended to pull CO2 out of the atmosphere to reduce the impact of climate change is not only uncontroversial but now part of The Official Plan if you believe recent IPCC reports or that the Paris accord 1.5C goal is achievable. Details on implementation and costs are to be worked out at a later time. The most likely candidate tech (BECCS) would probably cause a widespread increase in food prices due to displacing food production, which might be what you're getting at.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 16:55
|
|
|
Conspiratiorist posted:They don't exist; carbon capture has to be point source. BECCS is point-source CCS.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 16:56
|
|
|
BECCS is loving made up unicorn nonsense
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 17:21
|
|
|
StabbinHobo posted:BECCS is loving made up unicorn nonsense Yes. It can still accurately be described as "most likely candidate tech" for large-scale negative emissions.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 17:29
|
|
|
Accretionist posted:
stupid cowardly excuse until extinction it is literally never too late to work toward improved sustainability global warming is not a discreet problem to solve by some disruptive innovation. there is no false dichotomy of "we solve it by 2100 or we dont". there is only "how bad do we let it get and how long do we let that go on". there is no such thing as too late. there is only "gently caress you, I got mine, but I pretend i'm a good person so I dunno maybe later if it gets easier?"
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 17:29
|
|
|
Nocturtle posted:Yes. It can still accurately be described as "most likely candidate tech" for large-scale negative emissions. What's more interesting than the predictable "debate" about whether it's possible or not is why BECCS was chosen as the preferred NET by the IPCC. They operate on the principle of lowest costs, where essentially anything that's not the most economical gets disregarded, and unlike other NETs BECCS produces salable electricity. So it's actually a lot less about viability than it is about money.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 17:37
|
|
|
StabbinHobo posted:[...] What do you think I'm saying?
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 17:43
|
|
|
https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/05/11/2324230/teslas-giant-battery-in-australia-reduced-grid-service-cost-by-90-percent Is the degree to which Tesla's batteries "work well" meaningful? Does this impact the growth potential and scalability for wind and solar globally?
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 18:13
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/05/11/2324230/teslas-giant-battery-in-australia-reduced-grid-service-cost-by-90-percent It seems like it was a great solution to South Australia's frequency containment problems. But keep in mind it's reduced price doesn't reflect some sort of massive gain in efficiency, but rather that prior to the battery's installation there was essentially no competition, so suppliers could routinely extract the regulatory cap of $14,200 AUD/MWh during peak demand.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 18:39
|
|
|
StabbinHobo posted:"solidarity doesnt matter we can only affect change through getting the existing capitalist order to self-regulate better" Socialist movements in the West can't even up dismal union rates but somehow y'all think it's capable of the massive economic and societal re orginizations needed to combat climate change? Personal action is fine and laudable but on a large scale it's like thinking donating to charity is going to solve inequality.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 18:42
|
|
|
Accretionist posted:What do you think I'm saying? Accretionist posted:Also, I would differentiate between isolated one-offs and grassroots efforts. Accretionist posted:I'm sorry I'm polluting your brand by thinking it's far, far too late? making excuses is what it looks like
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 18:55
|
|
|
What I'm getting is that you probably aren't interested in any of this, you just like opportunities for harassment and toxicity. Edit: ↓ Thanks! I feel validated. ↓ Accretionist fucked around with this message at 21:43 on May 13, 2018 |
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 19:16
|
|
|
moooooooooom they're being meaaaaaaannn
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 19:27
|
|
|
TheNakedFantastic posted:Socialist movements in the West can't even up dismal union rates but somehow y'all think it's capable of the massive economic and societal re orginizations needed to combat climate change? StabbinHobo posted:moooooooooom they're being meaaaaaaannn
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 19:48
|
|
|
Nocturtle posted:It's the geo-engineering projects intended to cool the earth via dispersing aerosols in the atmosphere that get people worried about unintended consequences. I hadn't heard of BECCS. Cool I guess, though I can't imagine it making that much of an impact. Biofuel power plants don't generate that much energy, from what I know of them. I guess I thought there might be some kind of giant sci-fi carbon scrubber machine that had been proposed? I guess not though. I also remember from reading in the Mars trilogy a geoengineering project where the oceans (on Earth) are seeded with iron to grow algae, basically making the seafloor a carbon sink.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 20:41
|
|
|
Besides the potential problems of algae blooms, the problem with that is it does nothing to solve ocean acidification. That said, if we take for granted the ocean is gonna die, then might as well put it to use that way.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 21:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 21:07 |
|
|
StabbinHobo posted:moooooooooom they're being meaaaaaaannn Welcome back to the thread. Arkane posted:Why don't you elucidate the obvious conclusions you have drawn...what is your guess at the state of the planet in 2050 at the current trajectory?
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2018 21:46
|
|